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dalman
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:18:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Augeas
Quote:
Of course if you want to solo in the eos you pretty much want scrambler, webber, injector and mwd taking up 4 of your mid slots leaving 1 slot to fit a dampener in.


There should be no reason to solo in a Fleet Command.

Yes, but do I have to link you to my post a bit up on the page?

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2007.10.23 22:49:00 - [62]
 

:P CCP. The beauty of the Eos was it's flexibility. It may suck as a fleet command but was perfect PVE ship and now it's next to useless.

Well time to sell her before she's left to gather dust in the hanger.

I mean what the hell sort of bonus is that when you can't bloody use it ? 150 is 3 sets of meds right ? so 210 bay at lev 4 is 4 sets of meds... er great... that's a great bonus... NOT.


Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:07:00 - [63]
 

With 3 gangmods fitted you don't have space for more than 5 guns and that is what the ship is intended for.

If you want firepower get an Astarte.

Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:09:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: dalman
Sigh, CCP strikes again.

Yes, the Eos was a very good solo ship. Perhaps it was appropriate to nerf it, as this wasn't it's "intended" role.
And this nerf, removal of turrets and drone nerf (hey, remember it doesn't have a damage bonus plz!) makes it pretty much useless for solo PvP.

But the problem then is that the Eos is completely useless in it's "intended" role.
And I'm not talking about the "uselessness" of information links.
First off, the Eos has the worst tank of the 4 fleet ships. In a gang situation, where it's intended, it has by far the worst tank. For example, the rep bonus is pretty much useless, it's got a big sig radius, it only have 5 lows and it has a huge exp hole that has to be filled.
Except the fact that a plate doesn't get the resist bonus of damnation/vulture, it really lacks grid to fit one.
The fitting reqs also continue to haunt it when trying to fit gang links. You'll pretty much be flying with 4 empty highs (some exaggeration, but you can't fit decent guns).

Then there is the drone thing. Who is the dev @ CCP that is designing ships without understanding that drones are very useful in a solo fight but becomes more and more useless the more ships that are involved?

It's seriously some kind of achievement to come up with the idea of making a fleet ship that is based on drones and armor rep bonus, both of which are ******* useless in a fleet.




I fully agree with you, but quite frankly CCP didn't do anything improve the curse/pilgrim gang abilities after nerfing it's solo abilities into the ground. Heck instead they decided to introduce a mini curse which even sucks more... Evil or Very Mad

Vitaki
Rens 911
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:10:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Incantare
And FYI I fly blasterboats, Thorax and blaster Myrm specifically, I considered training for an Eos but had the sense to see it was overpowered and would inevitably be nerfed.
Lolol they are nerfing the Myrmidon down to 75/125. Want some ketchup with your foot?

Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:14:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: shinsushi


Slightly overpowered?

HEy, with 5 turrets and 5 medium drones, the EOS will still be the # damage dealing fleet command ship won't it? How many DPS is it still pumping out anyway?


Are you too busy whining about Amarr or are you joking?

Bailian Moxtain
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:34:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: SpaceTrucker 3000
Wow this coming patch is shaping up as the best patch ever. This nerf was strongly needed, I didn't even think they were going to nerf a gallente ship ever. Now damage is in par with the other fleet commands, it probably still outdamages them but not so ridiculously much.


u suck...

Barek Ironfist
Gallente
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:39:00 - [68]
 

As a long term gallente pilot i cannot compare the eos to the other commandships, however i can say that i disagree with some of the changes to the ship. The bandwidth was an expected change and i can understand that and don't mind. But i vehemently disagree with the removal of 2 turrets from the ship. At most it should have just lost 1.

Not that happy in balance.

Barek

Malvahne
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.23 23:45:00 - [69]
 

since I only fly the Eos for its looks and diversity (sp??) of setups I can only say,

bummer.

but good thing I avoided using those lame 'look at my 7 heavy neutron II, 5 Ogres II dps creamage' /**** /**** /****.

yeah it sucks but please do not say you did not see this comming becous then your just being a ignorent ****.

oh and I'm ****ing Laughing at the posible carrier nerf. gogogo ccp <3.

Incantare
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:20:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Incantare on 24/10/2007 00:41:47

Originally by: Vitaki
Lolol they are nerfing the Myrmidon down to 75/125. Want some ketchup with your foot?


I've known the Myrm would get nerfed for a while now, but you won't see whining about it. Reason is I consider it a good change, the Myrm will be on par with the other tier 2 BCs and I will continue to fly it. Not that it's getting two turrets ripped off.

Anyway, apart from one generally useful skill (heavy drone op) I didn't train specifically for it, I picked it up between the Drake and Thorax.

On the Eos:

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?

shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:22:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: shinsushi on 24/10/2007 00:24:54
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
Originally by: shinsushi


Slightly overpowered?

HEy, with 5 turrets and 5 medium drones, the EOS will still be the # damage dealing fleet command ship won't it? How many DPS is it still pumping out anyway?


Are you too busy whining about Amarr or are you joking?


Show me a fleet command ship that will outdamage it

OH, thanks for trolling.

Kaker
Waiting for Palli
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:26:00 - [72]
 

dont nerf the myrm or the EOS any smart pilot will realize that they can one volley or two volley their drones. Why does CCP help those that cant think but screw those who have adapted?

shinsushi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.10.24 00:30:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: shinsushi on 24/10/2007 00:30:21
Originally by: Kaker
dont nerf the myrm or the EOS any smart pilot will realize that they can one volley or two volley their drones. Why does CCP help those that cant think but screw those who have adapted?


I guess its a non-issue, since any smart pilot wouldn't field 5 vulnerable heavy drones like that then.

Horza Otho
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.24 01:15:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho
Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette
To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.


The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.

Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)

I dont really think people understand. Your not supposed to solo in FLEET command ships. Heck, this is a mmog, your not supposed to really solo at all.

The point is that the Eos is now balanced with the rest of the command ships. It does low dps to coincide with the Damnation, Vulture and Claymore. If you want to do damage you should (omg) get a Astarte?

Mourn Navarre
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.10.24 01:16:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?

Derrios
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.24 02:47:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: slothe
eos was always overated tbh


truth. its just the people on the losing end who whined enough to get it changed.

Praxis1452
The Illuminatii
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:20:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Horza Otho
Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho
Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette
To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.


The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.

Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)

I dont really think people understand. Your not supposed to solo in FLEET command ships. Heck, this is a mmog, your not supposed to really solo at all.

The point is that the Eos is now balanced with the rest of the command ships. It does low dps to coincide with the Damnation, Vulture and Claymore. If you want to do damage you should (omg) get a Astarte?
well why doesn't CCP just make a A kills B kills C kills A system. Because it's boring. Ships have roles and bonuses help them toward roles but if a ships can solo there is no reason why it shouldn't. CCP should not force people to play a certain way. Also soloing is quite fine in Eve, just because you believe everyone needs another person to play with doesn't mean that the devs should actively stamp it out.

Horza Otho
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:56:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Praxis1452
Originally by: Horza Otho
Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho
Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette
To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.


The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.

Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)

I dont really think people understand. Your not supposed to solo in FLEET command ships. Heck, this is a mmog, your not supposed to really solo at all.

The point is that the Eos is now balanced with the rest of the command ships. It does low dps to coincide with the Damnation, Vulture and Claymore. If you want to do damage you should (omg) get a Astarte?
well why doesn't CCP just make a A kills B kills C kills A system. Because it's boring. Ships have roles and bonuses help them toward roles but if a ships can solo there is no reason why it shouldn't. CCP should not force people to play a certain way. Also soloing is quite fine in Eve, just because you believe everyone needs another person to play with doesn't mean that the devs should actively stamp it out.

Its not what i believe its what ccp encourages through the way they make their game.

Wigglytuff
Perkone
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:17:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Xao Wen
Ok, so the EOS bonus to drone has been nerfed to oblivion : from 50m3/lvl, it is on Sisi, it is now 15m3/lvl. 250 at lvl 4.

On the plus side, it's base drone bay is now 150, so it's 210 at lvl 4. Not big of a nerf. But wait.

The bandwith has been set to 75. 75, that means 5 meds, or a bizarre mix of unbonused drones (2H, 2M and 1L). Ok.

And, now, looking closely, I see that it as lost TWO, not one, but TWO ****ING TURRET HARDPOINTS!!! Only 5 out of 7.

Well? It was slightly overpowered, ok, now it is just pathetic. Please, CCP, if you don't want it to field 5 Heavy drones (without bonus), ok fine, but give us back our turrets! Or give us bonus like the myrm to drones...


The Eos has been horrifically overpowered compared to the other 3 racial ships that this change is long, long overdue.

There was no reason for Gallente Commandships to outclas all 3 other races so badly, and were it not for my 3 charisma (go achura monks!) I'd be training/trained to fly them.

Wigglytuff
Perkone
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:25:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: hattifnatt
Originally by: Horza Otho
Edited by: Horza Otho on 23/10/2007 21:27:02
Originally by: Cornette
To bad the whine crowd got what they asked for.


The ship is grossly overpowered when compared to other fleet command ships. This wasnt a nerf, it was a balance and it got what it needed. Fly an Astarte.

Why not boost the other fleet commands then? (they do suck bad.)


Because Fleet Commands are suppose to be decent damage and sweet gang bonuses.

In the case of the Gallente they had sweet gang bonuses and WTFPWNAGE damage.

Shardrael
Caldari
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.10.24 06:08:00 - [81]
 

although I think the eos was a really cool ship and would loved to have flown one at some point the way it was, the ship was not really in the same class as its alternatives,

the vulture can kinda snipe but is basically a wet noodle with a good tank, the claymore is pretty much limp, and the damnation although nifty with the new changes is still pretty low on the dps side, eos was doing a whole hell of alot of gank for a class of ships that doesnt have much.

to be honest I wouldnt mind the astarte being turned into the old eos as the attack version and then getting a new weaker command for the logisitics ones.

sdthujfg
Posted - 2007.10.24 06:22:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Xao Wen
Ok, so the EOS bonus to drone has been nerfed to oblivion : from 50m3/lvl, it is on Sisi, it is now 15m3/lvl. 250 at lvl 4.

On the plus side, it's base drone bay is now 150, so it's 210 at lvl 4. Not big of a nerf. But wait.

The bandwith has been set to 75. 75, that means 5 meds, or a bizarre mix of unbonused drones (2H, 2M and 1L). Ok.

And, now, looking closely, I see that it as lost TWO, not one, but TWO ****ING TURRET HARDPOINTS!!! Only 5 out of 7.

Well? It was slightly overpowered, ok, now it is just pathetic. Please, CCP, if you don't want it to field 5 Heavy drones (without bonus), ok fine, but give us back our turrets! Or give us bonus like the myrm to drones...


Less dps for EOS is good :-)

Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2007.10.24 06:34:00 - [83]
 

Seems ccp are going to nerf every ship not demmed to be worthless, you know, instead of boosting the bad ones all the best ships get kne-jerk nerfed to oblivion, this way the bad ones look alot better!

Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.24 06:44:00 - [84]
 

The only reason the Eos could outdamage its field command counterpart is that it could field heavy drones.

Of course to rectify that CCP needs to reduce drone bay size, restrict drone usage by crappy bandwith and remove two turret hardpoints.

WTS two Eos and a frikkin clue.

Btw, can we expect the vulture to get nerfed too? I mean it's the only fleet command that can outrange its field command counterpart after all...

Dracu1a
Gallente
systemXshock
Worlds Merchant Directorates
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:00:00 - [85]
 

Ok so, its been touched on but i'll re-emphasize for some of the idiots here.


People whine that the EOS was too overpowered? Yeah it was good at solo. But its by far the WORST out of the fleet command ships for....well...fleet commanding. The tank was and Is still pitiful. Now that this nerf goes through its utterly useless. I mean, you people act like the dps on these ships HAS to be within 5dps of each other for it to be "balanced" or else you cry nerf. Seriously wtf. God forbid a ship be good at something another ship isnt as good at.

So fellow gallente people. I think its time we whine about the REDICULOUSLY hard tank that the Vulture has. I mean, its better than all the others so it should be nerfed right? NERF THE VULTURE.

Plave Okice
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Yezhovshchina
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:38:00 - [86]
 

I can't be bothered to read all the posts, I know what most of them will say.

I'm a 40 mill sp all Gallente combat pilot, I have almost 5 mill sp in drones, 10 mill in hybrids including med blaster spec V, Command V and lots and lots of other V's too. I loved the Eos, obviously. Why? Tank, Gank, flexibility. Small gang, solo, fleet, it was able to operate effectively in all situations and could be fitted to suit, fantastic ship.

However, let's be honest, it was way out of line with the other fleet commands, the only one better than its field counterpart. A nerf was always going to come, I've always expected it and I can't believe people are surprised, even I will admit from a balance point of view, it was too good. Is the nerf too much? Well, I'll fly it and find out, I'd rather see it with a drone damage bonus as opposed to hybrid bonues to make it more different from the Astarte though.

Just done a very quick calc, in full tank mode (dual rep, dual cap booster) I could get around 750dps, it'll be around 500 now as although it's only 5 turrets it can be 5 Neutrons instead of mixed Electrons/Ions. For full Gank mode there's still the Astarte (great ship too).

DeMundus
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:38:00 - [87]
 

Id like to point out Eos can only do a ceritian dmg type with guns... ppl that say we should look at the other ship to compare... well you can change dmg type, minmatar and caldari... ok I admit I dont wanna be Amarr... Nerfing both guns and drones seems to much... and why does every ship have to be balanced? Some minmatar ships are ****ing great some are poor, so is it with the other races... in the end all ships only do diffrent dmg if CCP keeps going this way....

Waut
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:39:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Waut on 24/10/2007 08:40:20
Edited by: Waut on 24/10/2007 08:39:59
What us it with all these silly nerfs lately? Has CCP been secretly bought by EA? Or Sony Online perhapsConfused

WTS and Eos or 2

Shardrael
Caldari
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:41:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: DeMundus
Id like to point out Eos can only do a ceritian dmg type with guns... ppl that say we should look at the other ship to compare... well you can change dmg type, minmatar and caldari... ok I admit I dont wanna be Amarr... Nerfing both guns and drones seems to much... and why does every ship have to be balanced? Some minmatar ships are ****ing great some are poor, so is it with the other races... in the end all ships only do diffrent dmg if CCP keeps going this way....


you still have drones to choose dmg so that point is pretty mute, just the same though the nerf might have been a bit much but well see how it makes it to live

Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:50:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Ogul
The only reason the Eos could outdamage its field command counterpart is that it could field heavy drones.

Of course to rectify that CCP needs to reduce drone bay size, restrict drone usage by crappy bandwith and remove two turret hardpoints.


Eos without drones and 1 mag stab 499 DPS, damnation with 2 pulses and 5 heavy assault launchers with 2 BCU's 348 DPS. And the damnation can only field 5 light scout drones.

So yes it is brought inline in terms of DPS of the other fleet command ships.

The issue is though the eos might not be as good of a gang booster as the others. And CCP won't chang that probably, but then again this is how it usually goes. Did the curse/pilgrim get any bonusses for gang work after their solo ability got omgwtfpwned by the nerbat?



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