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darkst0rm
H A V O C
Posted - 2007.10.24 02:44:00 - [31]
 

This blows. Just finished months of training to use the EOS and warfare links.
Was about to start training for T2 heavies for it too. bleh.
I can understand removing 2 turrent hardpoints to make it inline with the other command ships in it class but removing it's heavy drone capability is very harsh.

How many ships can actually field 5 heavy drones now?


Shuyen Kyuu
Amarr
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.24 02:51:00 - [32]
 

*points and laughs ... then goes back and cries about what happened to the Damnation some more*

Anyway what I'm trying to say is, suck it up, Amarr have been nerfed forever and those players keep finding ways to use the ships, its all about thinking of diffrent ways to use the ships, so stop whining and start testing :P

Kumq uat
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:28:00 - [33]
 

The Eos was overpowered though. The Astarte is sick and should be but the Eos could do Astarte like damage when it is meant to be not as much DPS but better gang bonuses. Now the new nerf MIGHT go too far but we won't know till we see it.

Transcendant One
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:30:00 - [34]
 

Merin, aren't you a Caldari rail pilot or did you give in to the FotM Gallente?

Oh I get it, since they're nerfing the Eos there's no hope for that 7 turret vulture you wanted, so this is really a buff the vulture thread Shocked.

The Eos really needed the bat though, but I think they overdid it.

XLR Eight
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:45:00 - [35]
 

I should train for social or other non pvp skills instead, my training time wont get wasted at least. Good job on nerfing PvP pilots ccp.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:50:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Transcendant One
Merin, aren't you a Caldari rail pilot or did you give in to the FotM Gallente?

Oh I get it, since they're nerfing the Eos there's no hope for that 7 turret vulture you wanted, so this is really a buff the vulture thread Shocked.

The Eos really needed the bat though, but I think they overdid it.


Caldari pilot, but that doesn't mean I want to see an Eos nerf. If anything, the fact that I don't even fly the ship and I still don't join the "omg high dps!!!!" whiners should give my arguments a bit more weight. After all, I can't be doing it just to keep my solo pwnmobile if I don't have the skills for one!


And as for wanting to keep the Eos un-nerfed just so I can argue for a better Vulture, that's just laughable. The Vulture needs fixing as part of the massive problem with the Caldari railboats, not to compete with the Eos. Maybe you should go dig up the threads where I've posted a fix for the Moa, Eagle, Ferox, Vulture and Merlin all using the same method.

The Eos is relevant only in that it was the only one of the four fleet commands that was actually done right. The other three inherit fatal issues from their awful T1 counterparts. But instead of admitting the mistake and fixing it, they've decided to nerf the Eos and keep the Ferox/Cyclone trash. This does make it harder to argue for a fixed Vulture (since a balanced Vulture would arguably out-class the nerfed Eos), but there are plenty of other reasons not to nerf the Eos.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2007.10.24 03:53:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/10/2007 03:56:42
Originally by: Kumq uat
The Eos was overpowered though. The Astarte is sick and should be but the Eos could do Astarte like damage when it is meant to be not as much DPS but better gang bonuses. Now the new nerf MIGHT go too far but we won't know till we see it.


Remember that the Eos can only do that damage from point-blank range, with minimal tank, cap vulnerability, web vulnerability, no gang mods, and a limited supply of fragile, slow, poor-tracking heavy drones. If anything, the Eos was arguably the worst of the fleet commands, since it had no role in a larger gang.

So yes, the Eos is a good ship for size-compensating quickfit comparisons, but you have to look at more than just dps in balance discussions.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:11:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Kumq uat on 24/10/2007 05:19:38
I do realize that. I am a Gallente pilot and all and a knife fighter. That is the nature of the beast. I havnt seen these Eos's I have fought with that bad of a tank though TBH.

Vandamsel
Gallente
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:16:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Vandamsel on 24/10/2007 04:59:21
Edited by: Vandamsel on 24/10/2007 04:56:42
Originally by: Alex Under
Originally by: Larania Hypax
Its a god damn DRONE BOAT, with Creodron as manufacturer. Why would it have less drone capability than the Ishtar? Less dronebay than the Ishtar was ok, therefor it has the turret dmg bonus and a nice amount of turrets, but now only fielding medium drones? Ridiculous!
Cut the 2 turrets and give it back the capability of using 5 heavy drones, with 5 turrets and no drone damage bonus the damage should be similar to the Ishtar and would makeup for the lack of the drone dmg bonus!
I honostly can't imagine who would fly an EOS anymore after this nerf. I can't believe this.


QFT.
I certainly won't bother flying an EOS if they go with these changes to it. 15m3 instead of 50m3 and only able to field Medium drones and also remove two guns... WTF CCP?

Who's proposing these changes? Seriously, we're paying your salaries with our monthly fees so you can come up with this crap? How about you fix the 999 bugs that are still outstanding with this game?

WTS: 2x 50 million SP characters Exclamation


What he said, all these nerfs is getting a little ****ing ridiculous ccp. How about fixing some bugs rather than making the ships that dont suck in eve suck. Give me my 2 months back training for the Eos please. I think I'll stop wasting my money with 2 accounts also. Mad


Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:21:00 - [40]
 

and, an aside, wtf ishkur nerf?

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2007.10.24 04:23:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/10/2007 04:25:21
Originally by: Kumq uat
I do realize that. I am a Gallente pilot and all and a knife fighter. That is the nature of the beast. I havnt seen these Enyos I have fought with that bad of a tank though TBH.


Then you should realize why just having a high dps output isn't enough to make a ship unbalanced. And that's the only thing the Eos does well, it has plenty of drawbacks to keep it from being overpowered.


Here's a fun little comparison: the max-gank Eos you're talking about (3 magstabs, neutrons/void, ogre IIs, etc) compared to a max-gank Astarte. With max skills:

The Astarte does more damage (1048 to 1028), not counting implants. With gun damage implants (there are none for drones), the Astarte pulls ahead even farther.

The Astarte has a better sustained tank. With dual reps on both ships, the Astarte wins 236 to 219. Or wins 267 to 219 if you fit an EANM II instead of the damage control, which still gives you 2000 more effective HP.

The Astarte has more effective HP, 38337 to 27958.

The Astarte has better drones, using fast, high-tracking mediums instead of the slow, poor-tracking Ogre IIs.


So if all you want is massive damage, why would you ever fly an Eos? It's hardly an un-balanced ship because of high damage if no sane pilot would ever fly one over the competition.


Lao Cheng
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:10:00 - [42]
 

Ok perhaps the Eos needed a slight nerf but it had the worst tank and the worst gang links and needed to get upclose in your face to do the damage and now even scoop and deploy is not going to work so another blow there so a smartbomb will eventually kill your drones and tbh it's gonna be even harder to break a passive tank now and it was pretty hard before.

If you were gonna nerf it CCP why not make it into a pure drone boat instead like an ishtar with gang links bonus but only 2 - 4 turrets?

IMinYOURforums
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:16:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: El'jonson
CCP seem to hate gallente they are nerfing alot of gallente ships with this surposed drone fix, why not just come out and say it ccp hate drones because they cause lag.

Anyone know how I can swap my gallente skills for caldari and my carrier skills 4 dred ones Sad


HA...HAHHAHAHAHAHA...Laughing

You made my day, good one.

Dapanman1
Amarr
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
The InterBus Initiative
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:19:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 24/10/2007 04:25:21
Originally by: Kumq uat
I do realize that. I am a Gallente pilot and all and a knife fighter. That is the nature of the beast. I havnt seen these Enyos I have fought with that bad of a tank though TBH.


Then you should realize why just having a high dps output isn't enough to make a ship unbalanced. And that's the only thing the Eos does well, it has plenty of drawbacks to keep it from being overpowered.


Here's a fun little comparison: the max-gank Eos you're talking about (3 magstabs, neutrons/void, ogre IIs, etc) compared to a max-gank Astarte. With max skills:

The Astarte does more damage (1048 to 1028), not counting implants. With gun damage implants (there are none for drones), the Astarte pulls ahead even farther.

The Astarte has a better sustained tank. With dual reps on both ships, the Astarte wins 236 to 219. Or wins 267 to 219 if you fit an EANM II instead of the damage control, which still gives you 2000 more effective HP.

The Astarte has more effective HP, 38337 to 27958.

The Astarte has better drones, using fast, high-tracking mediums instead of the slow, poor-tracking Ogre IIs.


So if all you want is massive damage, why would you ever fly an Eos? It's hardly an un-balanced ship because of high damage if no sane pilot would ever fly one over the competition.





You are compareing two different classes. Compare Eos to the other fleet commands. It was brought in line with this fix.

Mindlles
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:00:00 - [45]
 

This is crap.

CCP are u still playing eve?. No
CCP when u played eve where u anny good at it? No

Amarr needed a boost yes, does eos need a nerf? naa not really.


Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:04:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Dapanman1
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
{Eos vs. Astarte}


You are compareing two different classes. Compare Eos to the other fleet commands. It was brought in line with this fix.


That was exactly the point. People are whining that the current TQ Eos is overpowered because of its high damage. The purpose of that comparison is to show that the max-gank Eos setups they're talking about are completely redundant. There is absolutely no reason to fly an Eos with that "overpowered" setup, so it's irrelevant to the discussion.

And the Eos wasn't brought in line, it was nerfed well below the other fleet commands. It was never significantly better than the other fleet commands in the real world, thanks to issues with terrible gang mods and pathetic range. Now it's even more useless at "omg damage!!!!" while getting no improvement to compensate for those flaws.

Yes, it was a bit better, just because it was the only one actually focused on its intended role (even if that role was somewhat lacking). The only issue with the other fleet commands is the split weapon layouts they inherit from their awful, completely obsolete T1 counterparts. The solution is to fix the Ferox (7 turrets) and Cyclone (I'll let the Minmatar pilots pick, but probably 6-7 turrets) and by extension, the Vulture and Claymore, not to nerf the only fleet command ship that is actually done right.

Zixxa
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:56:00 - [47]
 

Good decision. Eos must die.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:59:00 - [48]
 

it's a fleet command ship right?

so what is the problem?
the other one still works doesn't it?

Swamp Ziro
Ultimate Betrayal.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:18:00 - [49]
 

This thread delivers...


gallente tears bwa ha ha ha


Kumq uat
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:31:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Kumq uat on 24/10/2007 09:31:34
waffle

Senator Bobatine
Viziam
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:32:00 - [51]
 

I declare this thread to be worthy of me.

Cry before the almighty power of Bob headed by my dark power!

Jinmie
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:53:00 - [52]
 

Worst tank of the Fleet Commands and the only one that has to be ontop of you / can lose half more than half its dps if the drones are killed.


But noo, clearly it must also have a lower damage output than 2 others aswell!



This over the top nerf will become less so if you also offer the Eos a 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per Battlecruiser level, if not then what's the point in flying the Eos with a lesser tank when you can have a faster ship with a better tank and more firepower at range in the Claymore or Vulture.

mallina
Caldari
SUNDERING
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:01:00 - [53]
 

EOS was the only Fleet Command that could do enough DPS and Tank well enough to kill most well-fit Battleships (except those fielding heavy neuts). Whilst I DO think this nerf is way too far, the other commands are pretty pathetic in a comparison.

Damnation for instance. Amazing tank, with Gang Mods your fleet will love you - but it does the DPS of a dead fly with that sort of setup, whereas EOS is still able to field 5 heavies Confused

VaderDSL
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:06:00 - [54]
 

Now CCP please increase thewarfare link efectiveness on Fleet commandships from 3% to 7.5% and add in a cap reduction bonus either as a new logistics requirement or under the role bonus.

Gordon Red
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:19:00 - [55]
 

Yes, the drones can make extreme damage as on gallente ships like BS-DPS, but so what?
If you want to do something about drones, then people should actually use the game mechanics => USE SMARTBOMBS
But if people still wanting guns guns guns, okay let them die to drones. I see nothing wrong...

I think the drone nerf is about need for speed only and not that the ships are overpowered or such.

Liam Liam
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:40:00 - [56]
 

It's official game name changed to "Nerf Online"

PC5
Against Polish Authorities
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:56:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: PC5 on 24/10/2007 10:56:21
Aparently CCP is not playing this game. From where you get such ideas to nerf EOS??? Please nerf everything what gives us fun, then we wont have any reason to play this game anymore.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR STUPID NERFS.

Glarion Garnier
Thermal reaction
Posted - 2007.10.24 11:04:00 - [58]
 

I say it again. Dont do so drastic nerfs. Make smaler if you have to.

if you need to nerf the eos. Take away one turret or 25 from 125 of bandwith. or both .. but not like .. heyy I see this eos ship. samurai sword in hand . slize it in half. hah try to use it now Twisted Evil

Pociomundo
Gallentean Gynaecologists
Posted - 2007.10.24 11:49:00 - [59]
 

Give the Eos 10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per Battlecruiser level.

C0wgirl
Gallente
The Federation of Free Traders
Posted - 2007.10.24 12:08:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Gordon Red

I think the drone nerf is about need for speed only and not that the ships are overpowered or such.


+1

Because it certainly aint a balance, it's a buttf**k.


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