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blankseplocked CCP - Can Dominx, Ishtar & Eos still launch 5 x T2 Ogres?
 
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Puupuu
Latrocinium
Posted - 2007.10.24 07:53:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?

Or as the devblog put it, the Eos has now been un-nerfed

Lomong
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:24:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


It's no stronger than what CCP import straight from Colombia, I guess.

As for the Eos, the ability it has in small gangs to do damage and tank somewhat well(Needing 2 faction reppers to compare with a non-Crystal T2 shield booster Claymore in HP/s). Also, full-gank Eos's are rather rare outside of large roaming gank gangs. In a fleet, the Eos has the least useful links, since even EW ships benefit more from the increased survivability that is afforded by the 3 other link types than they do from info warfare links. Also, in a fleet, Vulture and Damnations tanks are sooo much better than both the Eos and Claymore that it's ridiculous, especially since it doesn't require cap to maintain them, AND they benefit even more from the rather ridiculous situation of stacking multiple plates or extenders.

Ironically, the only bone thrown to the Claymore and Eos on Sisi is the fact that links now use half the amount of cap that they do on sisi. Ironic, since Vulture and Damnations tanks are far more cap efficient than either the Claymore or Eos, and since the guns on the Eos use quite a lot of caps, especially if it is to use a MWD to get in close also. I hadn't bothered with getting a new Eos since I lost my last one, instead using the Damnation, since Armoured Warfare links are far better for my corp, the alliance we're in, and our allies, in addition to the Skirmish Warfare links of a corpmate.

In conclusion, the nerf is actually removing the niche the Eos had, that of a small gang command ship(where you actually tank, because going with pure gank is courting disaster), instead putting it as a redheaded stepchild thanks to the substandard links, a tank that is meh for fleet use(which, according to you at CCP the fleet command ships are for), and very short range, in addition to having cap problems if fitted with a MWD and using the guns it's supposed to.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:31:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/10/2007 08:44:08
Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


While the Eos has been in need of a nerf, you went a bit overboard. I'd suggest upping the drone bandwidth a small bit (maybe to 95 or so). Also, why nerf the drone bay size, what purpose does that serve now that the bandwidth thing is in place, other than to place insult upon injury?

No complaint about the -2 turrets, you can only fit 5 anyway if you're running 3 gang links. Frankly, I'd much rather see a drone dmg bonus on this ship instead of the gun dmg one.

About the gang links: the infowar ones are by far and away the worst of the set, making Eos subpar as a fleet support ship. Please take a look at that at some point.

Also, the Eos isn't a very good tank compared to the other fleet commands.

So: we now have crappy dps (which is partly limited to ultra-close range unlike the other fleet commands), we have a poor tank compared to the others, we have the worst gang links. So what's the use of this ship, now?

Again, I support some nerf to the Eos, it was out of line. But you've also gone too far in the other direction, maybe not taking the other failings of the ship as a fleet command ship into account. I'd suggest a bit more drone bandwidth, and maybe a change of the damage bonus to a drone one. No, I don't want to field 5 x heavies, but a bit more than the new 75 would be in order.

Yes, I've flown the Eos. As a fleet command ship. If this nerf goes through, the Eos will suddenly become the worst fleet command, without a doubt. Is that the intention here?

Partly related: what were you smoking when you did the Ishkur nerf? 25? So you're nerfing a ship that already belongs to a "close-to-useless" class? Way to go...

Added: also what Lomong said, above. The relatively poor tank of the Eos is partly a result of needing to fit MWD (because of blasters), which combined with the 2 x repper tank (since the Eos can't fit plates) plays hell with your cap. Not to mention the guns eating away at that cap, too. Compare to the other fleet commands, which have huge tanks with comparatively minimal cap use. See Eos lose.

To sum up: what would make me ok with this would be: add a bit more drone bandwidth (95?), restore the drone bay size to the old size, change the gun damage bonus to a drone-based one

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:42:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Kai Lae
Originally by: Cadiz


Meanwhile, I don't think I've ever seen a ganglinked Eos. Ever. I'm not even sure if I know anybody who has the Info Warfare Specialist skill trained up any real amount, actually... Confused


There are suckers like me who do use it with gangmods, and who even have info warfare spec 5. However, it STILL doesn't change the fact that not only is the Eos in it's supposed role crap, pretty much all fleet commands in this role are crap. What you get from having these skills:

Information warfare spec 5
Warfare link spec 5
Command ships 4

Is a 16.8% boost on a 2% module. Now, if you were to use a T1 BC, you'd get 14% on a 2% module - the ship bonus gives you a total of 2.8% difference. This is pretty much not even worth mentioning. If I wanted to train command 5, it would be 17.3% - so the difference, with max skills, would be 3.3%. That's 2 rank 6 skills and 1 rank 5 skill, for 3.3%. I challenge anyone anywhere in the game to find something similarly dismal.

So now the Eos was nerfed at the one thing it was good at, which was being used as a garden variety combat ship, and it still hasn't been fixed at what it was supposed to be good at, which was boosting gangs. There are people out there who would like to use these ships in roles that they're supposed to be good for, but unfortunately numbers don't lie and there is absolutely no reason to do so currently.


Implants are ------> that way.

Bacci Galu
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:52:00 - [65]
 

Build a bridge eos fanboi's....and get over it

Gaia Thorn
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2007.10.24 08:56:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Gaia Thorn on 24/10/2007 08:57:20
Says the carrier whiner.

Ohh the sweet irony.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:21:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Bacci Galu
Build a bridge eos fanboi's....and get over it


Well, sure, I can do that, given that you stop whining about carriers. Deal?

That way we'll both see ships that we trained for and like to fly get reduced to useless, expensive paperweights. What fun.

ollobrains
5th Front enterprises
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:23:00 - [68]
 

fit the eos with lasers and go have some fun lol its probably the best setup for it now rofl

Kyusoath Orillian
Haters Gonna Hate
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:28:00 - [69]
 

ins't the whole change to nerf the 5xheavies on a myrm ?
if you can't have 5 heavies on a domi then thats unfair.

tho thats never stopped them before.

i still think that nerfing a myrms turrets would be better .

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:34:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi

Partly related: what were you smoking when you did the Ishkur nerf? 25? So you're nerfing a ship that already belongs to a "close-to-useless" class? Way to go...



To be useless in line with the rest of the useless class Evil or Very Mad

Whoever came up with the idea of frigates with cruiser-like MWD speed and cruiser-like agility clearly needs to cut down whatever he was smoking. Even sticking three (3!) T2 nanofibers on the 'speed' AF (I won't even discuss other AFs, it's criminal) yields worse agility then the -plated- T1 hull.

Not to get in the three bonuses thing. The Ishkur having only light drones is mostly fine, as long as it gets a proper 4th bonus together with the rest of its class, and stops having cruiser-like speed & agility.

At any rate, when comparing ships, compare with the same class. The Myrmidon needed the rebalancing, and the Eos - well, technically, it was indeed significantly better for outright combat, although, for gang boosting, I'd always sooner have a Claymore/Damnation on my side.

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:41:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: electrostatus
From Singularity.

Can you point out what’s wrong in this picture? Besides the rat I found attacking an anchored can that is.

What other than the rat and that CCP think you could get all the drone command & control + telemetry data down a (1)25Mbit/s link? Very Happy

Kurt Phoenix
Posted - 2007.10.24 09:43:00 - [72]
 

Gallente should have the warfare mods to augment scrambler range, tying in with the recon bonus technology, information warfare links are sub-par

Gaia Thorn
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:07:00 - [73]
 

The three bonuses it should have:
1. Mwd less cap usage
2. Scram range
3. webbing or less cap for guns usage

Every other race got race specific usefull bonuses why not gallente ?

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.24 10:09:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/10/2007 13:03:36
Originally by: Kurt Phoenix
Gallente should have the warfare mods to augment scrambler range, tying in with the recon bonus technology, information warfare links are sub-par


Yeah, but the minmatar already have that in their gang links. The whole thing is seriously imbalanced:

- the armor tanking gang links are almost universally useful
- same for the shield tanking ones
- the speed + scramble+web range ones are ridiculously good
- the infowar ones are... cornercase. EW optimal range rarely matters outside larger fleets, ECM strength is the only really good one and even that is a very specialist thing, and the sensor str one only matters if the enemy is using a specific type of EW (ECM)).

The infowar gang links are too specialized, too cornercase, when compared to the other 3. This, combined with the now nerfed-to-oblivion Eos ship stats, make it the worst fleet command to bring along in almost all cases. The others offer similiar dps, better tanks, much better gang bonuses.

The Eos only makes sense when it's supporting a large ECM EW group. That's a very specialized niche, and if that's the only role this ship now has... well, it has just become a big, green paperweight.

Jinmie
Posted - 2007.10.24 12:47:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Jinmie on 24/10/2007 12:49:00
Originally by: Phoenix Lord
The Eos however, isnt a drone boat at all.



No the Eos isn't a drone boat it's just made by CreoDron THE DRONE MANUFACTURER...



You know lots about EVE don't you?

Mindlles
Posted - 2007.10.24 12:56:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


while it tank was not as good as the damnation or the vulture. And its command link thingys where uterlly crap. and u need to be within 3km to actully do some dmg. And u also need to relay on ur drones. "witch we all know how good they can be :/"

Tho i can have understand a turret nerf on the eos "ala domnix/isthar/vexor". Not a drone nerf, drones still need more work to get them to work good. "how manny times dont u have to warp out in pvp and leave ur drones behind? becouse they get stuck, and so on"

Tho i rather fly my astarte.

Tho Atropos why arent ccp working on more importen issues as logging off problems "is it actully vaulbe that a pvp force off 20 bs can logg of when u get close to them and their scouts se u?" Or that frieghters logg off and disspear right away?.

Or is it as i always tought, u guys suck extremly at eve and logg off to save ur ships aswhell?.....

And lets not get me started on soverinty and stations with posses and that **** that is just another "make eve easy and laggy" thingy?

Or the cloaking farming bs ????????????


julius tel'kash
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:12:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Rude Bwoy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After patch can the following ships field 5 x heavy drones:

Dominix -YES
Ishtar - YES
Eos - NO !!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why CCP nerf the EOS ?
an EOS it's very more skill point ==>ishtar
CCP is not logical

Neslo
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:13:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Jinmie
Edited by: Jinmie on 24/10/2007 12:49:00
Originally by: Phoenix Lord
The Eos however, isnt a drone boat at all.



No the Eos isn't a drone boat it's just made by CreoDron THE DRONE MANUFACTURER...



You know lots about EVE don't you?


Cuz the description (background) of a ship has any correlation to what the ship can actually do... lol

You must be new.LaughingLaughingLaughing

hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:25:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Bacci Galu
Build a bridge eos fanboi's....and get over it

Originally by: Gaia Thorn

Says the carrier whiner.

Ohh the sweet irony.


Ahh... this is priceless. Way to show that carrier fanboi his place Laughing

Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:30:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Arana Tellen

Implants are ------> that way.



When an implant is required to get a decent level of performance on a ship (or anything else for that matter) the item in question is broken.

Liam Liam
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:41:00 - [81]
 

All ships will be nerfed mercilessly until they are all the same and can be taken out by a rifter

By order


Sikozu Prioris
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Syndicate.
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:46:00 - [82]
 

I second this motion. Current ccp seems to want to nerf every ship (read gallente drone boats) to do as much dps as the class below them. gj and hf ccp for helping me to cancel alt accounts.

ccp's income -$30 a month

my player experience -10

AdmiralNaismith
Gallente
The Black Guards
Solaris Consortium
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:49:00 - [83]
 

Wow. Irony. Just got CS 1 last night, and bought an Eos. Lol.

Majickthise
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:49:00 - [84]
 

if the eos is going this way then i demand a field command myrmidon that can field 5 bonus'd heavies, and can hold 3 waves.

Maltitol
Gallente
Tides of Silence
Posted - 2007.10.24 13:56:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


you still didnt answer the op's question...

Can Dominx, Ishtar & Eos still launch 5 x T2 Ogres?

Melor Rend
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:08:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Judinous
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Judinous
regardless, i doubt they will lose dps.

On the contrary, the entire point of the drone bandwidth change is to rebalance the dps from drone ships.


rebalance doesnt necessarily mean reduce. of course, its all speculation either way. the myrm will probably get hit with the nerfbat, though.


I thought the point was less bandwidth but bigger drone space AKA variety or drones for you to use.



... which, imo, is utterly pointless. I already can carry 23041238 heavy drones in my Ishtar and keep switching them between EM and Explo till the cows come home... it's all worthless if the DPS is nerfed.

Majickthise
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:10:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Majickthise on 24/10/2007 14:10:27
Originally by: Maltitol
Originally by: CCP Atropos
The Eos has been brought in line with the other Fleet Command ships. It has, for a long time, been immensely overpowered compared to the Claymore, Damnation and Vulture. It was the only Fleet Command ship that could out damage it's equivalent Field Command. If you don't think that's wrong, then can I have some of what you're smoking?


you still didnt answer the op's question...

Can Dominx, Ishtar & Eos still launch 5 x T2 Ogres?


2minutes of forum checking would reveal that the Eos now has the same drone control as a vexor. so no. no more 5 heavies. the domi and ishtar are currently still the same. but dont hold your breath.

Lila Acumen
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:14:00 - [88]
 

OMG its a CreoDrone boat its supposed ot use dornes ffs!!! So much for training for eos it was good before but not that good! It ponyl has 5 lows ffs. Whas the point now 5 highs and medium ddornes you got to be f**** kidding me ishtar has more dps now. Along with that it has cap probs unless oyu laod with cap booster it cant tnak at all its warfare links totally suck. WTF did oyu nerf both dornes and guns this is a bit too far ccp!

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:14:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/10/2007 14:17:07
Originally by: AdmiralNaismith
Wow. Irony. Just got CS 1 last night, and bought an Eos. Lol.


I'd advise you to sell it before the price drops through the floor.

If you want to do dps, get an Astarte/Absolution. If you want to support a gang, get any of the other fleet commands. Damnation in particular is very, very good, and corpmates swear by the Minmatar one (because the Minmatar gang links are made of pure Win).

If you want to float in space doing... not much anything useful to anyone, by all means keep the Eos. Confused

It's green.

Adago Vilon
Minmatar
Wise Guys
Exquisite Malevolence
Posted - 2007.10.24 14:14:00 - [90]
 

The thing I am most sad about is I won't be able to setup 5 T2 Sentries around a gate with my huginn :(

Or use 5 T2 medium drones with my ranis.

Or use 5 heavies with my vexor.

Such as shame.


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