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Balor Haliquin
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.16 03:38:00 - [1]
 

So i have been flying Amarr ships for my character's entire life. I was angry to say the least when characters half the age of mine were doing twice the damage, moving twice as fast, and clearing missions a twice the speed of mine. Now before any points it out. My character is only able to fly Amarr, thats all he has skilled for, he has a little under 8 million Skill Points. but they are all Amarr orrieted stuff.

Amarr have their issues and some glaring setbacks. But they have one thing that no other race can even come close to for combat ships. The last FOREVER! They have one of, if not the, best tanks in the game. And Amarr ships never, or almost never, run out of ammunition. No other race can even come close to claiming that sort of continous firepower.

Amarr do have their major setbacks, and if you are not properly skilled, they can be almost crippeling. Their cap is and always will be their achilies heal. as will their fundimental lack of speed. As for their damage rate and volly damage, remember this, my guns keep firing and don't need reloading for the next week or so. so the damage in the long run goes to the Amarr.

PvE
Its more than agreeable to say that the Caldari Raven, Drake, and Navy Raven are the kings of room clearing at the moment. Nothing can stop a properly fitted one. But a close second are the Amarr. The Abaddon has the staying power to deal with whole rooms full of enemies trying to take you down. Not to mention the Prophecy and its T2 cousin the Absolution which are almost as good. Granted the DPS is lacking from the Ravens and the Drake. but it provides an infanitely more dynamic situation to be in.

When fitting any Amarr ship remember one cardianl truth, your cap is your life, your cap determins your longevity. Everything you need runs off of it. So good thing you have one of the largest in the game. And remember to play it safe at first, at least until you learn to fly the ship. Remember, you characters skills only determine what ships and what mods you can use, you the person are still flying the ship. Make a poor tactical decision and you have no one to blame but yourself.

PvP
as a general rule for Amarr, most of their ships are prity awful for PvP. They have no killer application that is needed by other fleets but does not have another ship that could fill the role better. Amarr ship do provide the ability to loiter in the area with little support, as in ammo supply, repair and reconditioning, and the like. Amarr do have some ships which will ruin anyones day in a second. Now they are here say to me because i have yet to use them in PvP. But this is for people who are losing faith (heh, game joke) in Amarr as a viable race to fly.

The ships are the Curse (Recon Cruiser), Sacralige (HAC), Absolution (Command Cruiser), Abaddon (Battleship), Armageddon (Battleship), Punisher (Frigate), Maller (Cruiser), Vengence (Assault Frigate), Retribution (Assault Frigate). Now by no means are these ships win button ships but you stand a good chance of doing some damage to people with these.

I'm sure to get lectured by some one who has PvP and how these ships suck, but what I'm saying is is that Amarr are not the awful race that they may seem. It takes a lot of skilling to make them viable as a combat ship, and they can take damage like you would not belive. And also look at this neet little fact, master the Amarr completely and you have 85-90% of the skills to fly any Gallente ship more than handily.

As for my complaits about aAmarr, they are simple, in one on one combat you almost never get into the length of time that would bring about the Amarr's ship's superiority. So they definately need a DPS boost, and secondly they need more veriety in their ships, they are too easy to deal with with a single setup for the apposing ship. Also they need to be more crucial to Fleets.

Elenath
Gallente
Bluebird Capital Management
Posted - 2007.10.16 03:40:00 - [2]
 

Best title for a thread ever.

Dr Ming
Mindworks
Posted - 2007.10.16 04:12:00 - [3]
 

Simple truth of the Amarr is this:

Nobody wants to train for a ship that isn't seen as a solopwnmobile.

So nobody wants to fly Amarr.

But nobody will PvP solo, instead they blob up... Where the superior optimal of Amarr and Caldari short range weapons shine...

People are idiots.

Balor Haliquin
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.16 04:53:00 - [4]
 

It may be true that Amarr ships as a general rule are bad solo PvP, however there are at least two ships that i cna think of and have seen in action, and almost been the victom of.

PvP Absolution - combine a good skill based tank with very good DPS, not just for amarr good but good in regards to the PvP regulars like the Minmatar and Gallente. I have seen this ship make some small gank squads cry in agony as their DPS was simply not enough to even dent the ships armor, and watched it slowly desimate them.

PvP Abaddon - while having the same awesome tank as the absolution, if not better, it does trade one tactic for another, from close up to sniping. from what I am told its the best ship in the game to do it with.

Again I remark that this is only what I have been told and have yet to do it my self, but I'm very close to doing it. So please take this information with a grain of salt. I know there are other people out there with vastly more experience in PvP combat. Ask them for help.

For PvE I omni tank my Abaddon and have not had to warp out of a mission yet (after the first tenitive couple of steps into L4s where I got scared and warped out, but SHH don't tell anyone) it will take some time because of the low DPS, but the volly is high enough to pop most frigets with one or two guns.

Hopefuly CCP will come up with a clever way to get more Amarr ships into PvP. They are doing a good job with Caldari, and i hope Amarr will be next to get some of the love.

and im glad someone got the referance Very Happy

Princess 01
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.10.16 05:23:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Princess 01 on 16/10/2007 05:35:31
One thing about the Amarr race:

Most Amarrians are blinded by their own arrogance and do not want to face the fact that their technology is OUT-dated...

BTW my main is Amarr but I do not blind myself with optimisms and false-promises from the Devs... I endure like others but I love Amarr technology (since I subscribed 2.5 years ago...stupid me!!!)

Nonetheless, we both suffer because of Amarr's severe drawbacks... lol at your supposedly cap 'advantage' (THIS IS A FACT... SUPPORTED BY THE DEVS: "Amarr needs some oomph...")

So in conclusion, DO NOT FOOL yourself Amarr is 'FINE'... THEY ARE NOT!!!

Also .. lol.. yes, most of the ships u mentioned are good ... how about the others (especially sub-BS t1 ships)???




murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.10.16 05:27:00 - [6]
 

People seem to forget that EM damage isn't always the worst thing in the game. Plenty of my ship setups have EM as the lowest resist (HACS, CS) or the same level as explosive damage (T2 dual rep Dominix/Tyhoon tank).

I fought an Abaddon the other day, and he stripped my shield off my Dominix in two vollies. Ouch. Far too often people just believe the hype and write off Amarr as 'the worst', when in fact it's far from it.

Dr Ming
Mindworks
Posted - 2007.10.16 06:03:00 - [7]
 

And far too often people act like the Gallente ships are some sort of mythical PvP beasts of legend.

I've got Gallente BS V with T2 blasters and T2 heavy drones. The mega is a good ship, but it sure as hell isn't the second coming of Christ with a engines strapped on.

Some noobs hear a ghost story about a 1200 DPS mega, and suddenly the entire population of EVE is convinced that Chuck Norris would fly a Megathron, except he isn't man enough to handle that much power.

TBH, the 'best' races are not as good as people make them out to be, and the 'worst' races are not as bad as people make them out to be. But of course this is the internets, and everyone knows that if everyone is crying about something, it makes it the absolute truth.

Annowyn
Ammatar.
Posted - 2007.10.16 06:18:00 - [8]
 

Am I the only person that has had their ship melted by a gank armageddon before I could put the cigarette into the ash trey 30 cm away from my hand? Rolling Eyes

Trind2222
Amarr
The Red Ring
Posted - 2007.10.16 06:18:00 - [9]
 

Most problem is to fit a good amarr ship.
Problem 1 is cap of course.
You can for get to speed tank moat of cruisers and bc and bs but some good expectations
of course. The gank fitng will give you good dps not the best but good.
Tank you do very good but you will lack of dps.
The pvp hard is for is spesial.
Ew is good to do in some ships but you will cap out if you don't mange it right.
To be good amarr pilot is hard work it can turn to frustration as if you gonna have tank or gank or both but know you not alone and you have to rely on your corp mates.

twit brent
The Scope
Posted - 2007.10.16 08:41:00 - [10]
 

Amarr ships tanks are not that great unless you gimp your ship horribly with cap mods or your not going to run a tank forever.

Also amarr do have larger than normal cap but a worse recharge time, meaning that the cap recharge is prety much the same.


Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2007.10.16 09:18:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Shevar on 16/10/2007 09:20:14
Originally by: Dr Ming
Simple truth of the Amarr is this:

Nobody wants to train for a ship that isn't seen as a solopwnmobile.

So nobody wants to fly Amarr.

But nobody will PvP solo, instead they blob up... Where the superior optimal of Amarr and Caldari short range weapons shine...

People are idiots.


Tell me how does a megathron with tech 2 railguns suck exactly? Or how does the tempest with it's really nasty alpha hold up?

Saying people flying minmatar/gallente in fleets are idiots just shows your lack of knowledge.

Tiesa
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.16 09:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Annowyn
Am I the only person that has had their ship melted by a gank armageddon before I could put the cigarette into the ash trey 30 cm away from my hand? Rolling Eyes


Omg, he melted your frig?

Molly Neuro
Posted - 2007.10.16 09:31:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Molly Neuro on 16/10/2007 09:32:25
Originally by: Shevar
Edited by: Shevar on 16/10/2007 09:20:14
Originally by: Dr Ming
Simple truth of the Amarr is this:

Nobody wants to train for a ship that isn't seen as a solopwnmobile.

So nobody wants to fly Amarr.

But nobody will PvP solo, instead they blob up... Where the superior optimal of Amarr and Caldari short range weapons shine...

People are idiots.


Tell me how does a megathron with tech 2 railguns suck exactly? Or how does the tempest with it's really nasty alpha hold up?

Saying people flying minmatar/gallente in fleets are idiots just shows your lack of knowledge.


He didn't say they were idiots
He didn't say fleet - he said gang
He didn't say long range weapons - he said short

I believe the original poster was saying that in roaming gangs having a good optimal on a short range weapon is useful as you don't need to move around for range.


Xequecal
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:29:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Xequecal on 16/10/2007 10:30:15
In fleet, Amarr is gimped by absurd beam laser fitting requirements.

In small gang, Amarr is gimped by lack of mid slots. That means no web, and no sensor dampeners, which are the holy grail of small gang combat. Web is required here and Amarr can't fit it. It's especially a problem due to pulse laser tracking. Try fighting an Astarte with an Absolution some time. You'll do literally no damage to it, he'll close to 2km, web you, and orbit faster than you can track while he destroys you.

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:35:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Testy Mctest on 16/10/2007 10:35:39
Great OP. Best I've read in this forum in a long time.

At 8 million SP, you have a better grasp of how Amarr works and their advantages/disadvantages than 95% of the 'experts' who frequent this forum.

Bravo.

Brigar Starcleaver
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:48:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Brigar Starcleaver on 16/10/2007 10:51:26
I have about 45m SP dedicated to ammar... this means that when im flying my ammar ships i dont tend to run into problems. As murder one said and i agree with him, EM does often end up being the least resisted on alot of armour tanks.

Most of the time i have scorch loaded which works a treat,
ammar do have problems but once you have a certain amount of SP it doesnt really matter. Hence all the whines, mostly new players with not alot of SP wondering why they cant compete. Ammar is a skill intense race and if you really cant b asked to train the skillz to make them worth while i suggest giving up and move onto another one :P

Regards

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:49:00 - [17]
 

Testy, our local amarr specialist speak again Razz

No, not really, he misses a few key issues.

PvE: Amarr are only 2nd best vs blood & sanshas. Their damage type limitation makes them the very worst vs angels & gurista. With a so-so performance vs serpentis.

And the fabled amarr tank is actually outperformed by caldari ships.

For PvP the support issue "advantage" is nonexistant. It can be an issue for PvE, but for PvP you are using t2 ammo (which does run out just like other races ammo) and more importantly a cap injector, especially on the cap hungry amarr ships. Whose (big) charges run out far quicker than ammo.

Gaun Arel
Posted - 2007.10.16 10:52:00 - [18]
 

Pure 10 mill Amarrian here as well.
Amarr might not be great, outdated tech and all, but as all races we got some niches where we shine (partly due to the gold-plating).
Also I agree that the "feel" of the ships and race has a certain charm Smile

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2007.10.16 11:10:00 - [19]
 

We Amarrians have the best looking ships - apart from the gold-plating - followed by Gallente :P - that's enough to fall in love :)

In "Real life" roaming gangs my Harbinger can easily come out the damage dealer of the group with T2 Turrets and Ammo, with "just" 15M SP, even against hi-EM rez T2 ships.

Yes, we have no "I-WIN" solo-ships any more, but this isn't what this game is about, is it? We still hope on some changes on the NOS / Neut bonused ships, and-or some other balance issues on the energy weapons, but still our race is viable and battle-worthy.
Heck, even caldari are :P

Yes, Amarr seem a bit out-dated these days, but wheels are turning...

Soros
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.16 11:27:00 - [20]
 

I would make sweet sweet love to an Armageddon with 4 meds.

twit brent
The Scope
Posted - 2007.10.16 11:42:00 - [21]
 

I cant wait for killmails to show the dmg of the people that were on the kill. Amarr might not be able to shoot for long but I can sure outdamage everyone while i can shoot.

General Apocalypse
Amarr
Ship Research
Posted - 2007.10.16 11:48:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: twit brent
I cant wait for killmails to show the dmg of the people that were on the kill. Amarr might not be able to shoot for long but I can sure outdamage everyone while i can shoot.


pls pass whatever you're smoking .

Azuse
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.10.16 12:19:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Soros
I would make sweet sweet love to an Armageddon with 4 meds.


Good news for you (and me Twisted Evil). The new black ops is a Geddon with 4 mids.

/me runs off to rub himself on Geddon.

In all honesty the only thing i don't like is the restricting mid slots. With ti lasers Harbringers always come out tops on mails, same with Abbadons, the only niggles being the fitting room for tachs and beams but can't have everything i suppose Sad.

Hopefully ccp will tweak the older laser boats in the patch (we tend to live in vain hope here don't we?) because they really are old designs that haven't changed with the rest of the game like the blood raiders ships or sanshas to a degree. On the plus side if you fit right, sacrificing everything else you can usually run your guns 23/7 but sometimes the limitations are too obvious. The worst I've seen in the tach apoc, yes you can make it fit once your skills are up, but put those tii lenses in and try running off recharger's alone and you cap out in two min.

Moral? Don't believe the bulk of the hype you pass on these forums, if race A really was that good and race B really was that bad you wouldn't ever see race B.

Az

NoNah
Posted - 2007.10.16 12:20:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: twit brent
I cant wait for killmails to show the dmg of the people that were on the kill. Amarr might not be able to shoot for long but I can sure outdamage everyone while i can shoot.


pls pass whatever you're smoking .


Try the dev blog, they usually got some decent smokies like that aronud. Looks like you don't need a light anyway..

Firkragg
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.10.16 13:16:00 - [25]
 

Im suddenly all amarr focused again after a breif trip into gallentte land. Here are a couple of things i've come to notice about amarr.

1) They tank like an insane tanky tank monster from tank land. Was in a fight the other day in my geddon and got primaried and was tanking incredibly well considering i was in pretty much a gank fit and had a zealot sitting right on me pew pewing me.

2) EM damage isnt as bad as people make out. As somone said before em damage is sometimes people weakest resist. The problem is that laser ships dont get damage bonuses they get cap bonuses to lasers as a kinda stealth damage bonus. Unfortunately the base damage of lasers doesnt quite refelct this and could do with a tiny boost (not much just a little bit extra)

3) Cap problems are for newbs. Yes amarr is hard to start with as you will find yourself going cap dead incredibly quickly. Once you get your cap and ship skills up though you will find the cap on even your gank ships is pretty decent.

4) Mid slots. Amarr ships suffer with bad mid slot layouts. I wouldnt mind loosing that useless high on my geddon for another mid. And having one mid on the retribution is just a pain in the back side to be honest (although i must say im liking the vengence)

5) Fitting requirements on beams are horrible. you should no require 2 RCUs to get your long range weapons to fit on your BS before you have even added anything else.

6) The tracking increase on all lasers that was added a while ago was an awesome improvement and i congratulate CCP on it.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.16 19:29:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Firkragg
1) They tank like an insane tanky tank monster from tank land. Was in a fight the other day in my geddon and got primaried and was tanking incredibly well considering i was in pretty much a gank fit and had a zealot sitting right on me pew pewing me.


Compared to what? A cruiser?

No, honestly. Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Because I kinda fail to see any reason why it should od any better there.

Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2007.10.16 20:17:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Arvald on 16/10/2007 20:17:00
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Firkragg
1) They tank like an insane tanky tank monster from tank land. Was in a fight the other day in my geddon and got primaried and was tanking incredibly well considering i was in pretty much a gank fit and had a zealot sitting right on me pew pewing me.


Compared to what? A cruiser?

No, honestly. Could you please tell me what enabled your geddon to have this "insane" tank? Compared to another BS, like a megathron or a typhoon.

Because I kinda fail to see any reason why it should od any better there.

dual reps 3 hardners enam and 2 heat sinks, mmmmmmm (fyi my mission setup for the moment Very Happy)

Trevor Warps
Posted - 2007.10.16 20:42:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Annowyn
Am I the only person that has had their ship melted by a gank armageddon before I could put the cigarette into the ash trey 30 cm away from my hand? Rolling Eyes


Makes two of us.

Take Enemy
Archron Dusyfe Industries
Posted - 2007.10.16 20:51:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Dr Ming
Simple truth of the Amarr is this:

Nobody wants to train for a ship that isn't seen as a solopwnmobile.

So nobody wants to fly Amarr.

But nobody will PvP solo, instead they blob up... Where the superior optimal of Amarr and Caldari short range weapons shine...

People are idiots.


^^ This Post delivers...

Take Enemy
Archron Dusyfe Industries
Posted - 2007.10.16 21:17:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: twit brent
I cant wait for killmails to show the dmg of the people that were on the kill. Amarr might not be able to shoot for long but I can sure outdamage everyone while i can shoot.


pls pass whatever you're smoking .


In small gang PvP, I can eassily be the high damage dealer in my Zealot or in a Harby. You are putting very high consistant damage on target w/T2 Scorch/Conflag. They melt so fast under concentrated gang fire that you beat others in the gang out.

The only guy who consistently out damages me is in a Nighthawk... Take that Astarte, by the time he is even remotely within optimal to use his DPS the target is dead. With Scorch I am melting instantly at 30KM (Zealot) which is perfect small gang or gate camping range.


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