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Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:52:00 - [1]
 

As time passes, we are seeing more and more motherships in lowsec, a disturbing development in and of itself, concerning how close to impossible they are to combat. In recent weeks, there have been more and more instances of multiple motherships camping together... culminating in a battle yesterday that pretty much takes the cake, as far as I'm aware.

4 Red Alliance motherships and a TITAN took out a myrmidon in the Heild system of Molden Heath yesterday. Linkage

Pretty hilarious overkill, and the target was a well known local pirate, so no tears shed there. But I do find the presence of a titan in low sec very disturbing, especially so close to home.

It's been said many times before that lowsec is already out of balance from a risk vs. reward perspective in relation to 0.0, but the increasing presence of supercaps, if it continues to become more prevalent, makes it even less likely that corps will choose to set up operations in lowsec. If you're taking that level of risk anyway, why not just move to 0.0 and get the rewards as well?

The main question (to get to the point) is what is CCP doing to fix the balance of lowsec in order to ensure further population of these areas? Should supercaps (especially titans) be able to fly freely just a jump away from Concord patrolled Empire space? Will viceroyalties ever come into the game and allow some level of protection or mitigation from these risks?

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:55:00 - [2]
 

Well, that Myrmidon may have had a knife.

Dahin
Maza Nostra
HELL4S
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:57:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Dahin on 15/10/2007 17:58:12
you're complaining about the imbalance between hisec and losec?

People keep telling me "I gotta go to empire to make some money. I'll be back in a week".
Even tho they are sitting in a quite rich and relatevely peacefull portion of 0.0

Hell, the only reason my corp resides in 0.0 is to shoot people, the money we make in empire.

So yeah...
The problem are the ridiculously ludicrous opportunities in empire that slowly became such by endless years of carebear whining.

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:57:00 - [4]
 

No doubt he was asking for it ;)

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:58:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Sadayiel on 15/10/2007 18:03:48
the only trouble is that ppl dare to risk a capital on low sec due the tank can easily hold the gates dmg, it would be funny if ccp decide to add some Capital turrets as empire defense against hostile capitals.

would be quite fun face a gate pwn a capital ship Very Happy

p.s: don't understand this as a more safer low sec, since those turrets only may shoot at capitals and not a become and instagank to anything smaller than that.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Sadayiel
the only trouble is that ppl dare to risk a capital on low sec due the tank can easily hold the gates dmg, it would be funny if ccp decide to add some Capital turrets as empire defense against hostile capitals.

would be quite fun face a gate pwn a capital ship Very Happy

That would be awesome... Shocked

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Dahin
you're complaining about the imbalance between hisec and losec?


No, I'm basically pointing out that with warp bubbles being the only main difference between lowsec and 0.0 from a risk perspective... what's the value of lowsec?

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:13:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 15/10/2007 18:19:45
Originally by: Dahin
Edited by: Dahin on 15/10/2007 17:58:12
you're complaining about the imbalance between hisec and losec?

People keep telling me "I gotta go to empire to make some money. I'll be back in a week".
Even tho they are sitting in a quite rich and relatevely peacefull portion of 0.0

Hell, the only reason my corp resides in 0.0 is to shoot people, the money we make in empire.

So yeah...
The problem are the ridiculously ludicrous opportunities in empire that slowly became such by endless years of carebear whining.



You see, the reasons for the
Quote:
ridiculously ludicrous opportunities in empire
is exactly
Quote:
my corp resides in 0.0 is to shoot people


Your primary idea of 0.0 is "Let's kill anything that move". That include killing any option of a economically rewarding 0.0.

He is mining: kill him

He is ratting: kill him

He is hauling: kill him

So you hope to make isk from Player against Player combat, but that kind of activity is always a negative sum activity. Indipendently from who whin, at the end between all the partecipants there is a lesser isk worth of items than before.

Your choice, so don't whine about the results.

To get the rewards of 0.0 you need an industrial structure, mining activity and trade with empire. If you do nothing to secure those activity you don't get the returns, as even ratting without the possibility to sell the loot has reduced returns.

Paulo Damarr
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:18:00 - [9]
 

Being ganked by 4 motherships and a titan would be strangely epic but horribly frustrating. But the OP is right it just makes people less likely to brave low sec.

Dr Cron
Northern Lights Number 5
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:40:00 - [10]
 

YAWT... STFU

iiOs
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:42:00 - [11]
 

All capitals should be forbidden in low sec tbh, theyv ruined 0.0 already, dont let them kill low sec, its kinde dead to start with

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:42:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sadayiel
Edited by: Sadayiel on 15/10/2007 18:03:48
the only trouble is that ppl dare to risk a capital on low sec due the tank can easily hold the gates dmg, it would be funny if ccp decide to add some Capital turrets as empire defense against hostile capitals.

would be quite fun face a gate pwn a capital ship Very Happy

p.s: don't understand this as a more safer low sec, since those turrets only may shoot at capitals and not a become and instagank to anything smaller than that.


Winner!

SKUNK

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:43:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: iiOs
All capitals should be forbidden in low sec tbh, theyv ruined 0.0 already, dont let them kill low sec, its kinde dead to start with


Winner!

SKUNK

Sadayiel
Caldari
Inner Conflict
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:45:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
winner!!



yay!!! where is my cookie!!!Very Happy

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:48:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: iiOs
All capitals should be forbidden in low sec tbh, theyv ruined 0.0 already, dont let them kill low sec, its kinde dead to start with


Well, not all capitals. Carriers provide a vital logistical link between Empire and 0.0 bases, and dreads and carriers both are vital to low sec POS security. I just don't feel that supercaps make sense in lowsec.

iiOs
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:51:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Hakuriu
Originally by: iiOs
All capitals should be forbidden in low sec tbh, theyv ruined 0.0 already, dont let them kill low sec, its kinde dead to start with


Well, not all capitals. Carriers provide a vital logistical link between Empire and 0.0 bases, and dreads and carriers both are vital to low sec POS security. I just don't feel that supercaps make sense in lowsec.



about logicstic, when they add this jumpdrive freighters, its use will be gone, as for security, you dont need cariers and dreads to protect your pos in low sec because you wont be attacked by cariers and dreads in low sec if they are not allowed there ( just like high sec;))

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:54:00 - [17]
 

I think the russians were just trying to prove they can kill stuff without a large gang. Laughing

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:54:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Sadayiel
Quote:
winner!!



yay!!! where is my cookie!!!Very Happy


you must share it with the other winner

SKUNK

Curryzia Kinwurry
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:00:00 - [19]
 

I lol'd. I spend quite a bit of time in 0.4-3 systems, so this could make the future quite interesting.

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:07:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: iiOs

about logicstic, when they add this jumpdrive freighters, its use will be gone, as for security, you dont need cariers and dreads to protect your pos in low sec because you wont be attacked by cariers and dreads in low sec if they are not allowed there ( just like high sec;))


Valid arguments, and the jump freighters do change the dynamic a bit. However, I personally don't see carriers and dreads as necessarily being overpowered in lowsec and I feel they do play well into the risk/reward equation. It makes sense to have a few more ship choices (caps) as a tradeoff to risking lowsec, and a few more (supercaps/interdictors) for braving 0.0. The majority of PvPers dream of flying a carrier or dread someday, which is a good incentive for moving into lowsec.

Ballos
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:11:00 - [21]
 

That guy got... nuh-nuh-nuh-nut-saaaaacked.

Sebastien LeReparteur
Minmatar
Sebastien LeReparteur Corp
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:17:00 - [22]
 

Easy allow bubbles in low sec, make them aggressions and target able by gates...


Look at those piwate yelling kill that Mothaship!!!!YARRRR!!

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:31:00 - [23]
 

Supercaps have no place in low sec if the tools necessary to stop them are not permitted there. Personally, I think allowing dictor bubbles into low sec would be a mistake. So getting rid of supercaps is probably the best solution.

While it is true that a mothership can be killed in lowsec without a bubble, it doesn't necessarily make it balanced. The amount of planning required by x13 to pull off that kill was (by all reports) quite large, the target was rather predictable, and it took a few tries. One kill doesn't prove the point that motherships are balanced in lowsec, it only proves that somebody went to extreme lengths to kill one.


Lord Hood
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:44:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
Supercaps have no place in low sec if the tools necessary to stop them are not permitted there. Personally, I think allowing dictor bubbles into low sec would be a mistake. So getting rid of supercaps is probably the best solution.

While it is true that a mothership can be killed in lowsec without a bubble, it doesn't necessarily make it balanced. The amount of planning required by x13 to pull off that kill was (by all reports) quite large, the target was rather predictable, and it took a few tries. One kill doesn't prove the point that motherships are balanced in lowsec, it only proves that somebody went to extreme lengths to kill one.



/signed. Well Said

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:46:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
Supercaps have no place in low sec if the tools necessary to stop them are not permitted there. Personally, I think allowing dictor bubbles into low sec would be a mistake. So getting rid of supercaps is probably the best solution.

While it is true that a mothership can be killed in lowsec without a bubble, it doesn't necessarily make it balanced. The amount of planning required by x13 to pull off that kill was (by all reports) quite large, the target was rather predictable, and it took a few tries. One kill doesn't prove the point that motherships are balanced in lowsec, it only proves that somebody went to extreme lengths to kill one.




Agreed.

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:00:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: iiOs
Originally by: Hakuriu
Originally by: iiOs
All capitals should be forbidden in low sec tbh, theyv ruined 0.0 already, dont let them kill low sec, its kinde dead to start with


Well, not all capitals. Carriers provide a vital logistical link between Empire and 0.0 bases, and dreads and carriers both are vital to low sec POS security. I just don't feel that supercaps make sense in lowsec.



about logicstic, when they add this jumpdrive freighters, its use will be gone, as for security, you dont need cariers and dreads to protect your pos in low sec because you wont be attacked by cariers and dreads in low sec if they are not allowed there ( just like high sec;))


Rolling Eyes Try the following:

- get a few bill worth of isk together
- buy lots of very expensive BPOs
- buy and setup a large research pos in lowsec
- insert blueprints
- annoy some large random pirate corp, wait for them to start shooting the crap out of your pos
- have fun trying to repair the tower and all its guns without carrier support before it comes out of reinforced Laughing

Not saying its not possable, i'd just like you to see how much fun that would be Razz

Btw, capitals are currentley restricted from highsec due to the inability of being able to deploy a cyno field there, if you ban capitals from lowsec you ban jump-freighters too.

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Alski
- have fun trying to repair the tower and all its guns without carrier support before it comes out of reinforced


Exactly.

Originally by: Alski
Btw, capitals are currentley restricted from highsec due to the inability of being able to deploy a cyno field there, if you ban capitals from lowsec you ban jump-freighters too.


This does beg the question of what game mechanic and/or RP/storyline device updates would be necessary to ban supercaps from lowsec.

Side question: so can doomsday devices be fired in lowsec?

waferzankko
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:13:00 - [28]
 

they have alot of risk man, what 35b per super cap?

the risk maybe small but it is still there.

Hakuriu
Minmatar
Cosmic Odyssey
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:18:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: waferzankko
they have alot of risk man, what 35b per super cap?

the risk maybe small but it is still there.


It's not about the risk/reward for the supercap pilots, it's about the other 99.99% of current or prospective inhabitants who don't have the capability to defend against them. It's not like the motherships and titans are there for the minerals or lvl 5 agents.

Maltitol
Gallente
Tides of Silence
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:18:00 - [30]
 

LOW SEC TITAN JUST FOR A MYRM?

AAAAAAAAAhahahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha

that is the funniest and stupidest use of a super cap ive EVER heard! logistics platform my ass! its the new low sec pwnage fest!

oh man.. this made my day.. ahaha.. that titan owner ought to be podded to death!


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