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Jazzcat
Tau Online Explorator Corp
Posted - 2007.10.15 11:20:00 - [1]
 

( Evil or Very MadrantEvil or Very Mad )
For the love of god can you please stop with the nerf posts, It's getting a bit tiresom.
If you lost to another player talk to them, find out how they beat you, what they used and what tactics they employ.
Don't just come on here and scream NERF!! (-insert ship name-) beacuse it's overpowered.
Offer constructive ideas with sound reasoning and back it up with proof, crying for a nerf is just taking a step backwards and helps no-one.
Learn from your mistakes and improve instead of trying to make your ship the best by getting everything else nerfed.
( Rolling Eyesend rantRolling Eyes )

Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
Posted - 2007.10.15 11:42:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Jazzcat
...instead of trying to make your ship the best by getting everything else nerfed.)


/signed Rolling Eyes

Curryzia Kinwurry
Posted - 2007.10.15 11:43:00 - [3]
 

Yes, nerfing is quite annoying. Rather than *****ing and crying about it and demanding it be nerfed, why not use your brains and find a way to combat it?

PLS NERF EVE SO THAT PPL DONT KIL ME WHILE I AM MINING KTHNKS

Mithikil Ariandir
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.10.15 11:46:00 - [4]
 

Sounds like someone trained for the latest pwn mobile and caught the nerf bat in the face. Some nerfs I think are ridiculous but most of them make sense.

Captain Plumbo
Plan- og Bygningsetaten
Posted - 2007.10.15 12:01:00 - [5]
 

The Nerf is weak with this one.

Celvice Klein
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.10.15 12:04:00 - [6]
 

Nrft Jazzcat plzkthnx.

Gotrek Gurnisson
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.10.15 12:05:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Gotrek Gurnisson on 15/10/2007 12:05:48
Originally by: Mithikil Ariandir
Sounds like someone trained for the latest pwn mobile and caught the nerf bat in the face. Some nerfs I think are ridiculous but most of them make sense.

I avoided this by simply choosing the underdog race - Amarr. Less likely to get hit in the face by any nerf bats, and once you have the skills to fly them effectively they are wonderful fun. (In fact my only real bug-bear is the amount of additional sp needed to be effective compared to other races).


Xzar Fyrarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2007.10.15 12:09:00 - [8]
 

Nerf low sec/high sec/0.0 space plzkaythAnz.




Welcome to EVE this is BLOB............
This is NERF online. Feel free to pick up your Nerf ball and have a JOLLY good time .

Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
Posted - 2007.10.15 12:16:00 - [9]
 

The OP is talking about nerf posts, not nerfing.

Nerfing should only take place if there's statistically obvious imbalance. Not if people are whining about everything.

Because the game should develop as naturally as possible, nerfing and nerf posts are inappropriate.

DARTHxFREE
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.10.15 12:22:00 - [10]
 

All this nerf posting does make it look more and more like WoW every day, thier have bean times on thier forums that every post in a class forum was nerf related.

Celvice Klein
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.10.15 13:04:00 - [11]
 

Bean Times, is that a new magazine? Sounds odd.

Srsly, though, nerf post do get annoying after a while.

Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr
Inadeptus Mechanicus
Posted - 2007.10.15 14:41:00 - [12]
 

[ ] IBDS
[ ] IBTL
[ ] Can I have your stuff?
[ ] Go back to WoW.
[ ] Hello Kitty >>> That way.
[ ] It's a Templar, an Amarr fighter.
[ ] STFU
[ ] Post with your main
[ ] .
[x] Signed!
[ ] WINS TEH TOPIC!
[x] Bump
[ ] /fail
[ ] (Kitten thumbnail)
[ ] No one cares
[ ] Needs new Hampsters
[ ] Flame
[ ] Nerf OP
[ ] SPARTA!

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.10.15 14:48:00 - [13]
 

I agree nerf posts have gotten way out of hand. I remember a few months back even, when there were posts like "what should be nerfed next?". Freakin A, people. Rolling Eyes

Ramson
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.10.15 14:51:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Ramson on 15/10/2007 14:52:45
Edited by: Ramson on 15/10/2007 14:51:49
I agree with the OP,it's getting ridiculos... have we gotten a influx of WoW players or something ... cause all I see is some people crying nerf for a ship because they lost theyr ship to it.Or asking to buff the ship they are flying.
With a good fitting any ship in eve can pwn (except for the noob shipVery Happy ).If you are losing with a setup that you got from someone else,try to come up with your own non standard setup.What next, people saying that shuttles need a nerf cause it got passed a 0.0 blockade ?

Mastin Dragonfly
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2007.10.15 15:33:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
Less likely to get hit in the face by any nerf bats.


Yeah, having the bat permanently stuck up our behind is a much better situation.

VJ Maverick
Splinter Cell Alfa
Posted - 2007.10.15 15:49:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Diek Ran
Originally by: Jazzcat
...instead of trying to make your ship the best by getting everything else nerfed.)


/signed Rolling Eyes


Here is a funny thing about the nerf cycle. Lets assume for a second that you actually do manage to make your ship the best by nerfing everything else. Now you have the most uber wtfpwnmobile in EvE. Congratulations. Guess who the nerfbat is coming for next. By asking for unreasonable nerfs, you are only moving closer to nerfing yourself.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.15 15:53:00 - [17]
 

Its quite simple really.

If a few ships are too bad compared to others in their class they get a buff. Example: khanid

If a few ships are too good compared to other in their class the get a nerf. (probable) Example. Eos & Myr.

There are always both, buffs and nerfs. And in the last 1-2 years we had both in about equal measures. And both are necessary, it makes no sense to buff 99% of eve when you can nerf 1% instead. It is safer, too, since the more changes you make the bigger the danger to create a new uber-mobile.

AnKahn
Caldari
The Blood Wraiths
Posted - 2007.10.15 16:18:00 - [18]
 

Does everyone agree that Battleships should not be able to do 10 km/sec?

Does anyone disagree seriously with the NOS nerf ?(other that those who centered their SP around NOS abuse. Learn to fight BTW)

Does anyone really feel Battlecruisers should be able to stand toe to toe with Battleships? (with the same or less SP for the BC pilot).

Does anyone think the Devs are forum slaves? Dance for us Devs !!! heh.

Whining about nerf posts is still whining.Rolling Eyes

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2007.10.15 16:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: AnKahn
Does everyone agree that Battleships should not be able to do 10 km/sec?



Probably not. Well i do but others don't.

Originally by: AnKahn

Does anyone disagree seriously with the NOS nerf ?(other that those who centered their SP around NOS abuse. Learn to fight BTW)



Yes, i do. And before you come up with it: i do have most of my sp in gunnery, so...
For me as mainly amarr specced pilot it was a huge nerf. Pilgrim and Curse are one thing and i still love to fly the curse. But what strikes me more is the fact that utility slots have been degraded by the nos nerf. I often have one and cannot really use it. (neuts arent an option for my laser ships due to cap problems)

Simple example: Me and a friend were toying around on Sisi. I used an abaddon/geddon and he mainly hyperion. He got a mean active tank which i cannot break even though i have t2 weapons trained and such(~950dps atm with drones). Maybe i could do it with all maxed gunnery and drone skills but probably only barely and not fast enough to chew through his still impessive hp buffer until i am dead capwise or completely.

Now the only way to kill him would be to outlast him cap-wise. Once he runs out of charges he will die. I tried a passive hp tank first (not so good for 1v1) and it didn't work out - my hp buffer was gone shortly before his cap charges ran out.
Then i active tanked my abaddon. Now i could permatank him and he could permatank me. However abaddons and active tanks dont go together that well especially cap-wise. Of course my charges ran out before his (hyp got +100m more for charges and uses less cap to shoot - also contrary to popular belief ammo is actually very small).

So, baseline: Whoever got more charges wins. Duh. Very fun battles. Before you could tweak the balance for such endurance battles in your favour with nos. Its not possible now anymore, but its still about whose cap lasts longer.

So where is the big advancement after said nerf? I cannot see it for sure. Imo main problem is CCP creating tanks that can only be broken by nos or "running him out of charges" instead of gun dmg.
Its very easy to max out tanking skills in contrast to gunnery. 3 dmg mod and biggest tech2 weapons should be enough to break any active tank of ships in the same class or smaller. So, if you have to nerf nos ok. But please be consistent and nerf these damn tanks because its just dull.

Of course this game isnt balanced around 1v1 etc. But PvP doesnt exclude 1v1 and it just happens from time to time.

This of course was totally offtopic but you asked for it. To get back on track: signed. Wink
(that doesnt mean nerfs in general are unnecessary!)

Originally by: AnKahn

Whining about nerf posts is still whining.Rolling Eyes


Yes, and whining about the whining about it would probably still be considered whining. What gives?

pandymen
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.10.15 16:58:00 - [20]
 

Unfortunately, nerf posts exist on every multiplayer game. I recall reading the starcraft forums back in the day when it started becoming very popular and competitive online. People were crying about all kinds of nerfs. Essentially, the devs made a seperate forum for game balance suggestions and anyone posting outside of it regarding nerfs, etc got posting rights suspended. At least I'm pretty sure that was starcraft.

Either way, whine posts exist everywhere, you just need to find a way to shuffle them into a corner before they become a true nuisance and hinder anything productive in an otherwise good forum.

CCP, just make a game balance forum for these whines...and never check it. Please.

MITSUK0
Posted - 2007.10.15 17:46:00 - [21]
 

Buff and nerf cycles are a part of MMO's. They allways have been and allways will be cos they give powergamers a reason to keep playing (to level up the latest FOTM).

What ****es me off is the whiney pathetic attitude some EVE players are showing. Constantly whining because the ship they fly is not "overpowered" and shock horror cant kill everything and anything solo. Constantly asking for nerfs because a ship that naturally counters theres beats them everytime.

Just ****ing pick your spec and roll with the nerfs/buffs. 1v1 is paper/scissor/stone anyways: only the none combat focused ships lose to EVERYTHING. Run away from your counter, kill the ships you counter, fly with friends and have fun Rolling Eyes

mlove
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:05:00 - [22]
 

/signed

K0K0 PuFFS
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:16:00 - [23]
 

lol, this post looks like a bunch of gallente whiners crying about there overpowered myrmidon (The ship IS overpowered, don't give me any crap about this, the day i can fit cruise missiles on my drake and get 2 extra mids, is the day we are even.I don't care it took you six months to make your crumpled beer can of a ship kill people.) Seriously, all the nerf's right now make sense.

Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:20:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Diek Ran
The OP is talking about nerf posts, not nerfing.

Nerfing should only take place if there's statistically obvious imbalance. Not if people are whining about everything.

Because the game should develop as naturally as possible, nerfing and nerf posts are inappropriate.



I disagree with this statement. Being that true balance is an unreachable goal, the only way to keep the semblance of balance is to vary the game from patch to patch. In the end varying the game leads to buffs and nerfs. Nerfs are an unavoidable process when re-scaling the game, and adding new features.
In essence you're playing the game by eras. This has several benefits, the biggest benefit is not allowing things to get stale. Since balance is unachievable you get balance through the ages. This is an MMO where you don't want to keep things stagnant because things get stale. I don't know why people are so resistant to nerfs, yes you shouldn't nerf something that's weak. But if you take a strong ship and nerf it, but at the same time offer some other options, I find that exciting. Just like after the nos nerf, it totally changed the ships you see out and about, and it was a refreshing breathe of air.

So this idea of nerfs being a bad thing is a fallacy imo.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:30:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jazzcat
( Evil or Very MadrantEvil or Very Mad )
For the love of god can you please stop with the nerf posts, It's getting a bit tiresom.
If you lost to another player talk to them, find out how they beat you, what they used and what tactics they employ.
Don't just come on here and scream NERF!! (-insert ship name-) beacuse it's overpowered.
Offer constructive ideas with sound reasoning and back it up with proof, crying for a nerf is just taking a step backwards and helps no-one.
Learn from your mistakes and improve instead of trying to make your ship the best by getting everything else nerfed.
( Rolling Eyesend rantRolling Eyes )
This useless strawman is repeated over and over, show me a thread where someone has said "OMG I lost to X, nerf it NERF IT!!!!11111"...

Rolling Eyes

Diek Ran
Amarr
Autonums
Posted - 2007.10.15 18:52:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Rialtor
Originally by: Diek Ran
The OP is talking about nerf posts, not nerfing.

Nerfing should only take place if there's statistically obvious imbalance. Not if people are whining about everything.

Because the game should develop as naturally as possible, nerfing and nerf posts are inappropriate.



I disagree with this statement. Being that true balance is an unreachable goal, the only way to keep the semblance of balance is to vary the game from patch to patch. In the end varying the game leads to buffs and nerfs. Nerfs are an unavoidable process when re-scaling the game, and adding new features.
In essence you're playing the game by eras. This has several benefits, the biggest benefit is not allowing things to get stale. Since balance is unachievable you get balance through the ages. This is an MMO where you don't want to keep things stagnant because things get stale. I don't know why people are so resistant to nerfs, yes you shouldn't nerf something that's weak. But if you take a strong ship and nerf it, but at the same time offer some other options, I find that exciting. Just like after the nos nerf, it totally changed the ships you see out and about, and it was a refreshing breathe of air.

So this idea of nerfs being a bad thing is a fallacy imo.


I can see your point.

AnKahn
Caldari
The Blood Wraiths
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:39:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Rialtor
Originally by: Diek Ran
The OP is talking about nerf posts, not nerfing.

Nerfing should only take place if there's statistically obvious imbalance. Not if people are whining about everything.

Because the game should develop as naturally as possible, nerfing and nerf posts are inappropriate.



I disagree with this statement. Being that true balance is an unreachable goal, the only way to keep the semblance of balance is to vary the game from patch to patch. In the end varying the game leads to buffs and nerfs. Nerfs are an unavoidable process when re-scaling the game, and adding new features.
In essence you're playing the game by eras. This has several benefits, the biggest benefit is not allowing things to get stale. Since balance is unachievable you get balance through the ages. This is an MMO where you don't want to keep things stagnant because things get stale. I don't know why people are so resistant to nerfs, yes you shouldn't nerf something that's weak. But if you take a strong ship and nerf it, but at the same time offer some other options, I find that exciting. Just like after the nos nerf, it totally changed the ships you see out and about, and it was a refreshing breathe of air.

So this idea of nerfs being a bad thing is a fallacy imo.


/signed

I was going to say something much less eloquent.

I have tested my ships against other mates whenever I change around modules after reading posts here and I have come to the conclusion the EvE has fairly good balance at least at the BS level. So in the OP honor I'm going to start another thread about which ship is overpowered now that the Myrm is being brought into line.

I fly a Raven. I'll bet there will be a "OMG those torp Ravens are overpowered" thread soon if the changes on Sisi go through. You know what? Seeing that thread will make me smile.Very Happy

Dheorl
Surge.
Posted - 2007.10.15 19:54:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw
[ ] IBDS
[ ] IBTL
[ ] Can I have your stuff?
[ ] Go back to WoW.
[ ] Hello Kitty >>> That way.
[ ] It's a Templar, an Amarr fighter.
[ ] STFU
[ ] Post with your main
[ ] .
[x] Signed!
[ ] WINS TEH TOPIC!
[x] Bump
[ ] /fail
[ ] (Kitten thumbnail)
[ ] No one cares
[ ] Needs new Hampsters
[ ] Flame
[ ] Nerf OP
[ ] SPARTA!



You missed,

Ebay,
IBTR
and "go back to WoW"

Arvald
Caldari
Drunken Space Irish
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:12:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Arvald on 15/10/2007 20:12:21
Originally by: Jazzcat
( Evil or Very MadrantEvil or Very Mad )
For the love of god can you please stop with the nerf posts, It's getting a bit tiresom.
If you lost to another player talk to them, find out how they beat you, what they used and what tactics they employ.
Don't just come on here and scream NERF!! (-insert ship name-) beacuse it's overpowered.
Offer constructive ideas with sound reasoning and back it up with proof, crying for a nerf is just taking a step backwards and helps no-one.
Learn from your mistakes and improve instead of trying to make your ship the best by getting everything else nerfed.
( Rolling Eyesend rantRolling Eyes )

your forum fu is weak young padawan

Shereza
Posted - 2007.10.15 20:41:00 - [30]
 

Quote:
I avoided this by simply choosing the underdog race - Amarr. Less likely to get hit in the face by any nerf bats, and once you have the skills to fly them effectively they are wonderful fun.


Personally, my solution was to train everything I can.

Right now I'm able to fly and mount class-size weapons on every T1/faction combat ship in the game (excluding gold magnate frigate, state raven, and tribal tempest) and I'm just over 2 weeks out on almost every T2 gallente combat ship currently out. Add on 3 weeks for gallente interdictors and it'll just be a matter of training racial frigate/cruiser skills.

Of course then there are black ops and marauders.... Shocked

Any rate, over-generalizing like I do means that while you can do a whole lot you can't do a lot well. But hey, it beats sucking well when your training route just got nerfed. Very Happy



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