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Ju Man'ji
Posted - 2007.10.13 21:53:00 - [1]
 

Hello all. I've researched and researched and I can't make up my mind on which CS to go after. I'm at a point to where I could train any race no problem. I thought about Absolution, but the limitations of lasers sicken me, then I thought about the Nighthawk. The Sleipner interests me as well. The Eos/Astarte I will stay away from. I am looking for personal experiences. I will be mainly using them for running missions in and am needing to know what you all think would be best.

Thanks in advance.

VaderDSL
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:02:00 - [2]
 

Mission Running = Nighthawk

It is the best CS to run missions in, passive tank, lots of damage, choose your damage.

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:19:00 - [3]
 

Nighthawk undoubtedly for missions. Think of it like a better version of the Drake.

Just don't expect to ever, ever PvP in it :)

Mac Valor
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:19:00 - [4]
 

Using Quick Fit program, I tried a passive on the Nighthawk, but could do it with 4 T2 hvy launchers, 5x T2 Large Extenders, 2x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 1x T2 BCU, 1x Ancillary Current Router I and Core Defense Field Purger I. With 5x T2 Hob's on board, I'm doing a DPS of 219. Now if I went active tanking, then I could load out with 7 T2 hvy launchers and get a dps of 368.

If I did the passive fit wrong, let me know. Thanks!

Aravel Thon
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:24:00 - [5]
 

i saw a pic somewhere of an abso with 7 lows, 4 mids, 6 highs, and 6 turret hard points (probably a change for rev 3). That seems pretty cool. Maybe now it will have some soloability

Praxis1452
The Illuminatii
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:25:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Mac Valor
Using Quick Fit program, I tried a passive on the Nighthawk, but could do it with 4 T2 hvy launchers, 5x T2 Large Extenders, 2x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 1x T2 BCU, 1x Ancillary Current Router I and Core Defense Field Purger I. With 5x T2 Hob's on board, I'm doing a DPS of 219. Now if I went active tanking, then I could load out with 7 T2 hvy launchers and get a dps of 368.

If I did the passive fit wrong, let me know. Thanks!
5 T2 large extenders is a bit much I think.


I'm not sure of the slots on a drake compared to a nighthawk but 3 Large T2 extenders is enough. Highs is all T2 heavies. Lows are 3x BCU + SPR if their si any rroom left and rigs are 3x core defense field purger. mids are resist amps or active hards either way.

Ju Man'ji
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:35:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Ju Man''ji on 13/10/2007 22:45:16
Edited by: Ju Man''ji on 13/10/2007 22:35:48
I did a run thru on QUick fit with T2 everything outfitted on the 4 FCS's and here's the order of dps:

1.) Astarte @ 395 <-- 6x T2 250's using Javelin ammo or 426 dps using 7x T2 200 rails with Javelin ammo
2.) Nighthawk @ 382 <-- 7x T2 Hvy's using High Damage Scourge
3.) Sleipner @ 369 <-- 6x T2 720's with Quake ammo and 1x T2 Hvy
4.) Absolution @ 329 <-- 6x T2 Hvy Beam using Gleam crystal

I've flown Gallente since day 1, but I don't like the brutix class ships at all. Not to mention with the idea of using bandwith for drones, I dunno if that will hurt the effectiveness of drones or not. What do you think?

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:37:00 - [8]
 

PvP Gallente.

PvE Caldari.

That is all.

achoura
Posted - 2007.10.13 22:43:00 - [9]
 

If your training and fc simply for you shouldn't be in that dam thing and if, during your extensive research, you failed to notice the two thousand odd ravens running missions, you need glasses badly.

Ju Man'ji
Posted - 2007.10.13 23:10:00 - [10]
 

My extensive research was for the FCS's only. I'm not interested in flying a raven or any other BS atm. I like the versatility of FCS's along with their nice resist bonuses (especailly the Nighthawk and Absolution).

I played with the passive tank again on the Nighthawk, 178 shields per sec ok?? That's with this load out:

H-Slots: 6x T2 Hvy Launchers
M-Slots: 3x T2 Shield Rechargers, 2x T2 L. Extenders
L-Slots: 2x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 1x BCU
Rigs: 2x Field Purger I's
DPS: 296

or

H-Slots: 6x T2 Hvy Launchers
M-Slots: 3x T2 Shield Rechargers, 2x T2 L. Extenders
L-Slots: 1x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 2x BCU
Rigs: 2x Field Purger I's
DPS: 341
Shield Recharge Rate: 135/s

or

H-Slots: 6x T2 Hvy Launchers
M-Slots: 3x T2 Shield Rechargers, 2x T2 L. Extenders
L-Slots: 1x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 2x BCU
Rigs: 1x Field Purger I's, 1x Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
DPS: 368
Shield Recharge Rate: 108/s

Are shield values on all ok to mission run with?? Lemme know. Thanks!


isAzmodeus
Low Security Military Excursions
Posted - 2007.10.14 00:01:00 - [11]
 

Passive tanking isn't all about recharge. Its a balance of recharge and resistance. You want the highest possible sustained dps. Lets use some theoretical numbers to see what I'm talking about.

Explosive Damage- Nighthawk has a base 60% resist.
This means you take 40% of all incoming explosive damage.

If you can regen 180/s, that leads to a theoretical max (its lower then this due to salvo damage) of 450 dps.
450 * .40 = 180

Now, if I can change modules and lower my recharge to 100, but move my resistances to 85% (15% damage taken), look what happens. My max dps sustained is now 667.
667 * .15 = 100

For missions, you can exactly tailor your tank towards the types of damage you'll take. This is much better than just straight recharge tanking.


Mac Valor
Posted - 2007.10.14 00:17:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Mac Valor on 14/10/2007 00:20:17
Thanks for the feed back. I'm in a drake now and seting it up. I used Quick fit to come up with this setup:

H-Slots: 7x Arbalest Hvy Launchers w/ Scourge missiles
M-Slots: 1x Heat, Photon, & Kinetic Hardeners, 1x EMP Resist Amp, 2x L. Extenders or
1x Heat, Kinetic, Photon, Invuln. Hardeners, 1x EMP resist Amp, 1x L. Extender
L-Slots: 1x T2 SPR, 3x T2 BCU
Drones: T2 Hobs
Rigs: None (Can't use yet)

Shield resists: 74/70/71/70 or 78/77/77/76
Recharge Rate: 39/s or 30/s

Are these ok values? Thanks!


goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2007.10.14 00:23:00 - [13]
 

What you want is 2x-3x extenders in the mids,the rest should have rat specific hardeners...Going all hp might seem more viable in the form of passive tanking but resistance helps alot more.

Oh and get the nighthawk for missions.

Fehnrail
Caldari
The Day Watch
Posted - 2007.10.14 00:24:00 - [14]
 

You're doing it wrong.

High: 6x HMLII, whatever
Med: 1x Active EM Hardener II, 1x Invul, 2x extender II, 1x shield recharger
Low: 3x BCU, 2x SPR.

Mac Valor
Posted - 2007.10.14 00:26:00 - [15]
 

The drake only has 4 low slots

VaderDSL
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2007.10.14 00:56:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Fehnrail
You're doing it wrong.

High: 6x HMLII, whatever
Med: 1x Active EM Hardener II, 1x Invul, 2x extender II, 1x shield recharger
Low: 3x BCU, 2x SPR.


This setup :) get a vulture in your fleet with mindlink and maxed skills with the shieldharmonizing and you're laughing!

Get him to provide shield bonuses, get hm to draw aggro at up to and exceeding 120km then annihilate anything coming in towards you both.

Minmatar Alt
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.10.14 02:02:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ju Man'ji
My extensive research was for the FCS's only. I'm not interested in flying a raven or any other BS atm. I like the versatility of FCS's along with their nice resist bonuses (especailly the Nighthawk and Absolution).

I played with the passive tank again on the Nighthawk, 178 shields per sec ok?? That's with this load out:

H-Slots: 6x T2 Hvy Launchers
M-Slots: 3x T2 Shield Rechargers, 2x T2 L. Extenders
L-Slots: 2x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 1x BCU
Rigs: 2x Field Purger I's
DPS: 296

or

H-Slots: 6x T2 Hvy Launchers
M-Slots: 3x T2 Shield Rechargers, 2x T2 L. Extenders
L-Slots: 1x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 2x BCU
Rigs: 2x Field Purger I's
DPS: 341
Shield Recharge Rate: 135/s

or

H-Slots: 6x T2 Hvy Launchers
M-Slots: 3x T2 Shield Rechargers, 2x T2 L. Extenders
L-Slots: 1x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 2x BCU
Rigs: 1x Field Purger I's, 1x Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
DPS: 368
Shield Recharge Rate: 108/s

Are shield values on all ok to mission run with?? Lemme know. Thanks!




First off back away from quick fit, it isn't that good of a tool to use, unless you just want to know if it is possible to fit said things, and thats not always reliant. Since alot of stuff on it is not accurate on it.

Now onto the fittings you have recomented, the main problem I see is that it can't tank as good as a ship that used shield resistance modules instead of shield rechargers. The use of shield rechargers are very very limited in when it be more beneficial than more shield resistance. Besides that if you want to know more I suggest you check out the forums on this instead of quick fit, it usually gives you a better idea of what works and what doesnt.

Fehnrail
Caldari
The Day Watch
Posted - 2007.10.14 02:28:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Mac Valor
The drake only has 4 low slots


Was talking about Nighthawk. Drake isn't a Command Ship.

However, Drake outfit follows same basic principle. Take out one BCU from a low, add in another Invul II in meds.

Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.10.14 04:04:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Ju Man'ji
I will be mainly using them for running missions in and am needing to know what you all think would be best.

Thanks in advance.


Nighthawk, You are welcome..


Cosmo Raata
T-Cells
Moar Tears
Posted - 2007.10.14 04:46:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Aravel Thon
i saw a pic somewhere of an abso with 7 lows, 4 mids, 6 highs, and 6 turret hard points (probably a change for rev 3). That seems pretty cool. Maybe now it will have some soloability



Link please. That would be nice, but I dont believe you one bit.

xHalcyonx
Amarr
About To Die
Predatory Instincts
Posted - 2007.10.14 04:50:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Cosmo Raata
Originally by: Aravel Thon
i saw a pic somewhere of an abso with 7 lows, 4 mids, 6 highs, and 6 turret hard points (probably a change for rev 3). That seems pretty cool. Maybe now it will have some soloability



Link please. That would be nice, but I dont believe you one bit.


Link
Link 2

Apparently the picture was taken on the Dev server and leaked onto SHC.




Oh, and GOTCHA!

Aravel Thon
Posted - 2007.10.14 05:11:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Aravel Thon on 14/10/2007 05:12:06
Originally by: xHalcyonx



Link 2

Apparently the picture was taken on the Dev server and leaked onto SHC.




Oh, and GOTCHA!


aaargh ive been rick rolled!!!! gaaaaaaah *seizure attack* i....haate...yoooou....*dies*

Agalantiri
Caldari
Deadworlds Infrastructure Inc.
Posted - 2007.10.14 05:21:00 - [23]
 

The best missioning setup for a Nighthawk is:

Hi's: 6xHML2's, tractor/salvager if you must
Med's: 2xLSE2's, Shield Recharger 2, 2x Racial ACTIVE hardeners.
Lows: 3-5x SPR2's, 0-2xBCS2's
Rigs: 2x Shield Purgers

Depending on how much you intend on tanking and how much damage you want to throw out (some missions are easier than others) you change around the amount of BCS/SPR's in the lows.

With decent fitting skills you should have no problems with this at all.

A PvP setup, and you DO use these bastards in PvP, simply small gang where insta damage isn't so much an issue, merely being able to dish it out and tank for a while is...

Hi's: 6xHML's, ImpCloak2
Meds: Large SB, 2xInvul's, 1xPhoton Scattering, Med Cap Booster
Lows: 2xBCS, 1xDCU, 2xPDS2
Rigs: Anti-Em Ward, CCC

The exact one of each I won't give you, however mine is faction fitted and has an omni tank of 85/90/90/92 approximately (I'm not putting in 9 decimal places on each number). With the cap booster, you can run this tank long enough to get a decisive victory. Sure you can't tackle with it... but then, that's what you mate in the Crow/Flycatcher/anything else appropriate is there for. Hence, gang.

Solant
Minmatar
C A P S U L E
Posted - 2007.10.14 05:30:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Testy Mctest
Nighthawk undoubtedly for missions. Think of it like a better version of the Drake.

Just don't expect to ever, ever PvP in it :)


You're mistaken if you don't think the NH can pvp. In fact it is quite capable of PVPing with the best of them.

J Valkor
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.14 06:24:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Solant
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Nighthawk undoubtedly for missions. Think of it like a better version of the Drake.

Just don't expect to ever, ever PvP in it :)


You're mistaken if you don't think the NH can pvp. In fact it is quite capable of PVPing with the best of them.


Seconded. Nighthawk is still a Command Ship. Be amazed as anything T1 short of battleships melts. Be thrilled as that ****ing assault frigate is two volleyed.

Detriment
Caldari
A.I.M.
Posted - 2007.10.14 07:04:00 - [26]
 

Nighthawk for PVE
EOS for PvP (assuming T2 Heavy drones)

Else

Slep

I tend to like the Fleet Command vs. the Field Command
Better resistances, more mids.


Ju Man'ji
Posted - 2007.10.14 19:56:00 - [27]
 

Well, I'm glad to see most everyone agrees that the Nighthawk is a good PvE'r. But, no one really mentioned how the Sleipner or the Absolution will fair in PvE. From what I could tell, the Sleipner starts off with a solid resist for shields and armor. I found that it could passive tank pretty well too. The Absolution also has a solid armor tank, but I dislike the lasers. Please fill me in on how the Sleipner would hold against running missions and a possible pvp encounter here and there.

THanks!

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2007.10.14 20:07:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ju Man'ji
Well, I'm glad to see most everyone agrees that the Nighthawk is a good PvE'r. But, no one really mentioned how the Sleipner or the Absolution will fair in PvE. From what I could tell, the Sleipner starts off with a solid resist for shields and armor. I found that it could passive tank pretty well too. The Absolution also has a solid armor tank, but I dislike the lasers. Please fill me in on how the Sleipner would hold against running missions and a possible pvp encounter here and there.

THanks!
Sleipnir has some strengths but speed is one of the main ones,you cant use that to your advantage in missions due to the no mwding..

Solid resists dont matter in missions,if you have 0% to em but your fighting guristas that do kin/therm then its no big deal.

Oh and lastly since the sleip has to shield boost in missions it is at a disadvantage to the nighthawk passive shield tanking,while it would do more dps with autocannons the nighthawk has longer range and doesnt need to track.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.14 21:09:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 14/10/2007 21:17:08
Originally by: VaderDSL
Mission Running = Nighthawk

It is the best CS to run missions in, passive tank, lots of damage, choose your damage.
Absolutely right. I can solo tank any L4 mission 23/7 (although AE4 bonus room needs faction gear to be truly unbreakable). Damage output is okay for most missions but you will struggle on Rachen Masuna in Vengence until you've pimped up a lot and/or got your skills to top level.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.14 21:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Mac Valor
Using Quick Fit program, I tried a passive on the Nighthawk, but could do it with 4 T2 hvy launchers, 5x T2 Large Extenders, 2x T2 SPR, 2x T2 PDU, 1x T2 BCU, 1x Ancillary Current Router I and Core Defense Field Purger I. With 5x T2 Hob's on board, I'm doing a DPS of 219. Now if I went active tanking, then I could load out with 7 T2 hvy launchers and get a dps of 368.

If I did the passive fit wrong, let me know. Thanks!
I use:

6 Caldari Navy Launchers
2xLSEII;SRA II;DG Invuln;Rat specific hardener
3xSPR;2xBCS

2xPurger Is

The above tank calculates at around 150+DPS and will run 23/7. Resistances are usually 90%+ for the primary, 85%+ on all the others.


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