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Crimson Dawn
Posted - 2007.10.04 02:08:00 - [1]
 

I would like to buy skill points. Why you might ask?

I lost over a year game play Serving in the millitary that I can never get back. I know just on a basis I am a 05 player, and if you have ever done some solo pvp when you see a character thats say like 03, you know without a dought you have no chance of takking him.Unless 1 he hasnt played (Skilled Up)the entire time, or when he was noob status he die with several skill points and no clone.

I know this could be a very heated discussion about no any yes and bla how it could over power people with money so I found a way to make it simple.

Make it possible to buy skill points but only equal the ammount the account would have with its current age. IE a 2003 player may have around 190million skill points. This is just a guess cause I dont know.
SO you say what about the learning skills that allow you to have more than some one who doesnt have them. Yes I though about this so to make it FAIR to all set a base skillpoint ration as if all stats were 6 or mabey even 9 taking in to consideration NOONE uses charisma:P

This would help alot of players that lost time due to inactivity and yet doesnt overpower any player IMO

comments and questions welcome

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.10.04 02:28:00 - [2]
 

Buy a character.

/end

Crimson Dawn
Posted - 2007.10.04 03:00:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Buy a character.

/end


Would rather have my original

BuIIseye
Amarr
Rossum Technology
Posted - 2007.10.04 03:14:00 - [4]
 

I think there is a permanent attribute point increase thing system underway, that would be realy cool to have.

Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
Posted - 2007.10.04 03:17:00 - [5]
 

No buying skill points, regardless of how old you are. If you miss out on training, tough $#!^. Being able to buy skillpoints for any reason would soon become exploited and the screams would be tremendous. Sure, I've missed out on some training time here and there and cussed about it, but being able to purchase SP is not a viable solution.

Example: An account, 3 years old, with 2 years training completed. (He forgot to trainLaughing) Player purchases 1 year of training to "catch up". Player then sells off trained up character and petitions to buy more training since he's lost out on all that time. Screaming ensues from other players.

Example: An account, 3 years old, with 2 years training and 2 years paid status. Player buys training, but not the game time. Screaming ensues from other players.

Lost True
Caldari
Paradise project
Posted - 2007.10.04 05:32:00 - [6]
 

I'm sorry about your time loss, but selling SP is not good...

Celeste Coeval
The Gosimer and Scarab
Posted - 2007.10.04 06:34:00 - [7]
 

no

Locus Bey
Gallente
OCA2
Posted - 2007.10.04 09:10:00 - [8]
 

never

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.10.04 10:02:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/10/2007 10:04:21
Even worse example than above:

on this account I have lost some time but nothing special.

But almost at the same time of Venkul birth I have started 2 other characters on the same account and pracically never traiend them (they have 800K and 1 mill SP).

If I could train them spending isk (or even ) I would have 3 characters with more than 20 millions SP (and you could be sure that the "ancillary" characters would not have learning skill trained and be very focused).

If only 1 character for account could do that, no prob: pay for Venkul, move him to a new account, and then pay for charachter B and C.

End result: istant carrier pilot? rorqual miner? ecc.

Another evil idea: character selling forum:

ON SALE CHARACTER WITH 18 MONTH LIFESPAN, ONLY BASIC SKILL TRAINED - CREATE YOUR PREFERRED CHARACTER FROM HIM


CCP Atropos

Posted - 2007.10.04 11:16:00 - [10]
 

How would you govern how many skill points you believe you are entitled to?

With the different attribute requirements for the skills (Intelligence, Memory, Perception, Willpower, Charisma) a character created with, say, high Intelligence and Memory, would be better suited to training Science and Production related skills, and so, for those could be 'entitled' to 10 million skillpoints. However, if they had trained Combat related skills, which are primarily Perception and Willpower orientated skills, they might only be 'entitled' to 7 million skillpoints.

And what happens if you factor in implants? +5's aren't prohibitively expensive, would the amount of skill points that you're projecting be based upon your attributes with those implants, if you owned them or not? Or what happens if you've inadvertently forgotten to train a learning skill?

As a theoretical suggestion it holds merit, but it's not something that I could ever see us doing. (Also this character has currently 421 skills and 473,218,560 skill points, I don't need more skillpoints! Very Happy)

Washell Olivaw
Posted - 2007.10.04 12:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
(Also this character has currently 421 skills and 473,218,560 skill points, I don't need more skillpoints! Very Happy)


Since the OP admitted not knowing how much SP a char from 2003 would have I feel the need to clarify. This is ofcourse clearly a dev who got all skills turned on. Actual characters from the start of the game are currently breaking the limit of the highest graded clone, which is 92 million SP.

For the newer players amongst us: Only 20 to 30 million is actually useful to flying one specific ship, like say, the Dominix. This takes 12 to 18 months. However training the T2/fitting skills to 5 and the rest to 4 takes only 6 to 9 months and you'll be damned competitive at that level. So there's no need to despair when these multimillion SP numbers are thrown about.

Also remember that EVE has seen steady growth. A very small amount of the 180k accounts has actually started in 2003. The majority of the population is less then 2 years old. You're far more likely to run into younger and equal age players than older ones.

How little or much SP you have isn't the major issue some people make it out to be. If you're a 1 year old casual player you're just a likely to die from an encounter with a 4 year old veteran as from an encouter with a 6 month old PvP junk with billions to spend.

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2007.10.04 13:07:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Crimson Dawn
if you have ever done some solo pvp when you see a character thats say like 03, you know without a dought you have no chance of takking him.
Now that's a myth. Fitting and tactics are more important than raw SP. You don't need three or four years to pilot one class of ships well, or even perfect. If you know what you're doing and specialise you can be a competitive PvP'er in around 6 months, definitely less than a year.

CCP Atropos

Posted - 2007.10.04 13:19:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Crimson Dawn
if you have ever done some solo pvp when you see a character thats say like 03, you know without a dought you have no chance of takking him.
Now that's a myth. Fitting and tactics are more important than raw SP. You don't need three or four years to pilot one class of ships well, or even perfect. If you know what you're doing and specialise you can be a competitive PvP'er in around 6 months, definitely less than a year.

Fitting and tactics will always be greater and more effective than sheer skillpoints. This was clearly demonstrated during the Alliance Tournament, which, much to gratification, had Tech I ships being used in amazing maneuvers.

The age of characters doesn't always dictate how good a person will be in a specific area. This is represented in the skill system that EVE employs, with diminishing returns the longer you train a particular field. You can become 80% effective in 50% of the time. To gain that last 20% takes a lot longer than the previous 20%. As such, when used in conjunction with a good tactic or method, it is often easy to overcome older, established players.

Buyerr
Posted - 2007.10.04 14:30:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
(Also this character has currently 421 skills and 473,218,560 skill points, I don't need more skillpoints! Very Happy)


that just hurts.....
since the highest (as i recall) without dev hax is a char with around 85mill sp..

yer yer, we know that we will never get to that "max" skill point or even close, but you don't have to jump on us with the haxing :P ;)

Vartoo
Posted - 2007.10.06 22:07:00 - [15]
 

Well I am a 2003 player, I had to quit cause of the military also. I have recently returned, so I only have a bit over 2mil SP now, I feel your pain in that lost time and SP.

But I doubt the company would allow SP to be bought, its not good business in the first place, and to hard to figure out fairly.

So we'll just have to have our old birth dates and low sp. ;)

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.06 23:09:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: CCP Atropos
Fitting and tactics will always be greater and more effective than sheer skillpoints. This was clearly demonstrated during the Alliance Tournament, which, much to gratification, had Tech I ships being used in amazing maneuvers.


While I do not disagree with the general statement the reasoning behind it is extremly flawed.

The reason t1 ships did so well in the tournament is because the artificial gang restrictions of it. When you can field 5 t2 ships or 10 t1 ships the t1 ships will be OF COURCE more efficient.

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2007.10.06 23:29:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: ninjaholic on 07/10/2007 00:34:40

Originally by: CCP Atropos
How would you govern how many skill points you believe you are entitled to?

With the different attribute requirements for the skills (Intelligence, Memory, Perception, Willpower, Charisma) a character created with, say, high Intelligence and Memory, would be better suited to training Science and Production related skills, and so, for those could be 'entitled' to 10 million skillpoints. However, if they had trained Combat related skills, which are primarily Perception and Willpower orientated skills, they might only be 'entitled' to 7 million skillpoints.

And what happens if you factor in implants? +5's aren't prohibitively expensive, would the amount of skill points that you're projecting be based upon your attributes with those implants, if you owned them or not? Or what happens if you've inadvertently forgotten to train a learning skill?

As a theoretical suggestion it holds merit, but it's not something that I could ever see us doing. (Also this character has currently 421 skills and 473,218,560 skill points, I don't need more skillpoints! Very Happy)


My suggestions? No selling SP, but if a character has no skill training for a certain period of time, allocate, say, 40% of the SP to them when they re-log. I do think the system where if you're not training a skill you're screwing yourself is a great idea, Eve Online is all about SP, and encourages players to ALWAYS train a skill, but a form of "Rest SP" encourages people to come back after a period of inactivity, and at 40% or something it would be hard to exploit that.

Before you ask what area the SP should be allocated, I'd say the same category that the person had a skill training in last, unless those skills are maxed out, in which case it would be the previous skill-group. Not hard to do as there's already a skill-training history list been added to the game.

Rest SP is only a good method of gaining back valuable customers after a long period of being away from the game, and you'd have softened the blow to their return. I'm sure I'd be reluctant if I was unable to get at Eve Online for any long time to return, knowing that the people as old as me have 30% more SP than me >.<

I like this modified idea more than the original, as purchasing SP is a baaaaaaaaad idea and will only add more problems to CCP's already large workload.

Sign?

La Jefature
Posted - 2007.10.07 00:16:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Crimson Dawn
I would like to buy skill points. Why you might ask?

I lost over a year game play Serving in the millitary that I can never get back. I know just on a basis I am a 05 player, and if you have ever done some solo pvp when you see a character thats say like 03, you know without a dought you have no chance of takking him.Unless 1 he hasnt played (Skilled Up)the entire time, or when he was noob status he die with several skill points and no clone.

I know this could be a very heated discussion about no any yes and bla how it could over power people with money so I found a way to make it simple.

Make it possible to buy skill points but only equal the ammount the account would have with its current age. IE a 2003 player may have around 190million skill points. This is just a guess cause I dont know.
SO you say what about the learning skills that allow you to have more than some one who doesnt have them. Yes I though about this so to make it FAIR to all set a base skillpoint ration as if all stats were 6 or mabey even 9 taking in to consideration NOONE uses charisma:P

This would help alot of players that lost time due to inactivity and yet doesnt overpower any player IMO

comments and questions welcome



Nah, that just divides the rich from the poor. No thanks. We do not need real life classism in the game.

What I would like CCP doing is to remove useless time sinks. If they could remove all learning skills, and just improve all atributes by 11, it would help the game a lot. The time sink in learning skills is just far too much. And if you want to play this game for more than a year or so, you are pretty much forced to waste about 2 months just in learning skills (and that is getting basics to 5, advanced to 4 only) so you can advance at a decent pace.

Talk about an unnecessary timesink.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2007.10.07 00:21:00 - [19]
 

what if you got podded without a good clone and lost a lot of SP?

you would be able to buy it back... the sense of loss depends how rich you are in real life Confused

Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2007.10.07 00:54:00 - [20]
 

No.

Just....just no.

Berrik Radhok
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.10.07 03:30:00 - [21]
 

This isn't a Korean MMORPG. Go back to Gunbound.

Cerebrate Fate
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.07 17:57:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
No.

Just....just no.


My thoughts exactly...if this was implemented we would see SP sellers spamming channels as well as isk sellers!

ninjaholic
Gallente
House Aratus
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2007.10.07 18:03:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: ninjaholic on 07/10/2007 18:04:06

Spin-off of the original idea, it differs in the sense that players can NEVER buy SP, but impliments a form of "rest SP" for players who've been away from the game for a long time.

Linkage, or read post #17 above. I think it's a fair middle-ground.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2007.10.09 21:38:00 - [24]
 

Was the account active during that time? WOuld time spend cancelled or expired count toward the buyable total?

Characters from trial accounts from ages ago could be worth a pretty penny if their long-inactive brains could be "jump-started" to 40M SP overnight.

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2007.10.09 23:05:00 - [25]
 

I'd like this, simply because I left the game for a long period, and as such I only have a little under 21mil SP just now - despite the fact my character is only 8 minutes younger than the first time the server went live (I was in beta before that).

I've always regretted moving away, and would do alot to regain that lost time, but even I see problems with this:

1) Why should I be able to spend SP on skills that weren't around during the time that I lost?
2) (As was said) why should I get SP from implants, when implants weren't even around when I first left? (Never mind learning skills - yeah, it was that long ago)

If you can get over these two points (which, admittedly, are relatively easy to overcome tbh, even from a programming perspective) then why not allow it? Hell, even if it costs me half a month's subscription for the SP lost during one month, I'd be happy, and I'd pay. That isn't too unreasonable, is it? I didn't accept any T2 BPO lottery offers during that time, I'm losing any potential money earned during that time - why the hell can't I buy back even part of the time I lost? CCP make money as if I'd been playing, it doesn't overly unbalance the game (as if I had been playing, I'd have these skills anyway) and it doesn't make me feel like a complete noob when people look at my age and go 'haha, this old man is ****'?

Plekto
Freedom United Consolidations - Inter Terrestrial
United For 0rder
Posted - 2007.10.10 00:19:00 - [26]
 

An easier option would be a simple renaming option for a small fee paid to CCP. That way you could take the name from an existing character and apply it to one you bought.(or one that's not in use of course)

Not as nice, but tons less work for CCP to make work, I bet.

Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
Posted - 2007.10.23 20:46:00 - [27]
 

I feel this thread has some merit.

I like this idea, but it would need a few ground rules:

No choice of skillpoint allocation.
No new skills trainable.
Skillpoints are acrued at the rate of the character's lowest attribute (eat that, Mr Charisma is 3!)

So as I see it, let's say your account was idle for a year. Upon reactivation, you could pay for up to a years worth of skill training at the rate of your lowest attribute at the same rate as if you had been actually playing the game: Approximately US$180.






 

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