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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Enemy-Fleet
Posted - 2007.09.29 19:25:00 - [1]
 

Ok, Ive read many forums about suicide ganks recently and I cant understand why it is still happening, CCP has made it very simple to avoid a suicide gank heres how;

1, Fit your hauler with a prototype cloaking device,

2, If you lazy a-ss haulers have even bothered to analyse jumping into a system you will notice that you always appear about 12 to 15km away from all objects,

3, Immiediatly upon entering a system, double click in a direction away from all ships and objects so your ship will start to fly in that direction, half a second after double clicking, click the cloak.

4, U will appear on everyones overview for a fraction of a second, however in high sec there should be quite a few ships floating around so u should go un-noticed. Small and fast suicide gankers may try to bump you, but because they may not have even seen you enter the system they shouldnt, just pray your name doesnt appear at the top of the local channel. so your now flying away from gate at about 20km per second, use this time to look at big ships that seem to be hanging about around the gate, your objective is to get out of their webify/jamming range, then initiate warp. when u get to about 40km away from every thing initiate warp, no one can jam you cos your to far away.

5, Repeat steps 3 to 4 until you reach your destination.

Thats it, a logical solution to a problem, If any hauler does not use this technique and posts a forum complaining about being suicide ganked they deserved to be flamed to kingdom come.

Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.29 19:39:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing

Hanoi Hana
Mitsubishi Group
Posted - 2007.09.29 19:59:00 - [3]
 

Why not use a blockade runner? I'd pay 3x the cost of my Prorator in a heart beat for what it is able to give me.

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:14:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing


I suggest you read the OP again as you completely missed the point of it.

What he means is using the cloak to hide and analyze if there are any possible threats around the gate. If not, uncloak and keep on going, if yes then move cloaked until you leave their effective scrambling range, and then uncloak and warp.

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Enemy-Fleet
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:16:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing


The only reason why cloak is used is to get out of the gankers web/jam range, once you are at about 40km away from ganker, de cloak and warp, they cannot possibly web or jam from that range, giving hauler time to get to warp speed then initiate warp, did i not explain it properly?

Gavriel Black
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:19:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Aaron
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing


The only reason why cloak is used is to get out of the gankers web/jam range, once you are at about 40km away from ganker, de cloak and warp, they cannot possibly web or jam from that range, giving hauler time to get to warp speed then initiate warp, did i not explain it properly?


I see what you mean, but a hauler is slow enough, without moving at 10m/s to get out of range.
I would rather just fit nanos to the hauler and hope for the best tbh.


Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Enemy-Fleet
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gavriel Black
Originally by: Aaron
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing


The only reason why cloak is used is to get out of the gankers web/jam range, once you are at about 40km away from ganker, de cloak and warp, they cannot possibly web or jam from that range, giving hauler time to get to warp speed then initiate warp, did i not explain it properly?


I see what you mean, but a hauler is slow enough, without moving at 10m/s to get out of range.
I would rather just fit nanos to the hauler and hope for the best tbh.




Then im afraid you will be seen and lose your expensive cargo.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:25:00 - [8]
 

Allowing suicide ganking is CCP's way of limiting the amount of ISK a person can make from trading or similar activities.
Theonly reason people are getting suicide-ganked is because they fail to see why their income potential has to be limited by a "risk vs reward" mechanism.
Bottom line, greedy/careless people get spanked by the game's mechanics, but apparently not often enough so they stop doing it.

Gavriel Black
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:28:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Aaron
Originally by: Gavriel Black
Originally by: Aaron
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing


The only reason why cloak is used is to get out of the gankers web/jam range, once you are at about 40km away from ganker, de cloak and warp, they cannot possibly web or jam from that range, giving hauler time to get to warp speed then initiate warp, did i not explain it properly?


I see what you mean, but a hauler is slow enough, without moving at 10m/s to get out of range.
I would rather just fit nanos to the hauler and hope for the best tbh.




Then im afraid you will be seen and lose your expensive cargo.


OK, let me put it another way. I apologise for being blunt, but another forum user has put me in a bad mood.
I am not a moron. I don't carry expensive cargo unless i have protection.
In the three years i have been playing this game, i have never been suicide ganked in high sec.
End of story.

Once again, i apologise for being blunt.


Fswd
Gallente
Psychotic Sea Monkeys
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:34:00 - [10]
 

Why fit nanos and not istabs? Iirc, istabs lower inertia which both helps aligning and accelling, right?

Tamia Clant
New Dawn Corp
New Eden Research.
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:36:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Fswd
Why fit nanos and not istabs? Iirc, istabs lower inertia which both helps aligning and accelling, right?


That's correct, i'd be fitting i-stabs to my haulers. Mass reduction also helps i think, but the agility from i-stabs should be better.

Gavriel Black
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:37:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Fswd
Why fit nanos and not istabs? Iirc, istabs lower inertia which both helps aligning and accelling, right?


yes that is what i meant... i have been drinking... as you can probably tell.

whiskey anyone?


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:39:00 - [13]
 

Ways to avoid getting suicide-ganked when carrying something small : either be "too fast to catch" (istab/polycarbon on fast-aligning ship, an interceptor would be best) or "tough to kill" (command ships would be the best candidates here).
Ways to avoid getting suicide-ganked when carrying something large : take more than one trip.

Snake Doctor
MacroIntel
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:46:00 - [14]
 

If you can't afford to be transporting your goods, you should be leaving them in the station and contracting it to someone else.

Get a t2 hauler, or fit your indy proper.

Paulo Damarr
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:08:00 - [15]
 

If something valuable that's a target for a suicide gank and is around 500m3 or less use a passive tanked Drake but swap the BCS for a cargo expander, it would take one hell of a mob to kill that in 20 seconds.

Aaron
Eternal Frontier
Enemy-Fleet
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:17:00 - [16]
 

cloaking is the most logical solution, theres a very high chance that they wont see you enter the system, and they wont see you cloak, coupled with the fact that you always appear 12 to 15 km from anything upon entering system, its a winning solution.

patience is the key here.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:19:00 - [17]
 

Actually the OP has the right idea. If you absolutely CANNOT use a nanoed blockade runner which is essentially invulnerable in highsec, you can use the cloak/mwd trick.

Basically u fit an improved cloak(its cheap) and a mwd, for t1 industrials you need RCUs to fit it. When you jump in. Double click in the direction u want to warp to, mwd, and hit cloak a split second after.

You will flash on the overview and then dissapear. Wait 8 seconds, decloak, and instantly warp when both ur cloak and ur mwd wears off at the same time.

This is the trick smart battleship pilots use to avoid 0.0 gatecamps. You NEED a dictor to stop this.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:29:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Allowing suicide ganking is CCP's way of limiting the amount of ISK a person can make from trading or similar activities.
Theonly reason people are getting suicide-ganked is because they fail to see why their income potential has to be limited by a "risk vs reward" mechanism.
Bottom line, greedy/careless people get spanked by the game's mechanics, but apparently not often enough so they stop doing it.



I'd say that this was such a simple concept that even an idiot could understand it, except that we know that's not true.

Dietric Kalarn
Unexpected Company
Posted - 2007.09.29 22:26:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Allowing suicide ganking is CCP's way of limiting the amount of ISK a person can make from trading or similar activities.
Theonly reason people are getting suicide-ganked is because they fail to see why their income potential has to be limited by a "risk vs reward" mechanism.
Bottom line, greedy/careless people get spanked by the game's mechanics, but apparently not often enough so they stop doing it.


Best response on the subject I have heard yet.

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.29 22:48:00 - [20]
 

The reason why suicide pirating is happening is because...

1) the hauler players are lazy.
2) killing the lazy haulers is very profitable.

Your suggestion will indeed allow for safe hauling but then using your solution is no more effective than having a scout and warping to 0.

The people complaining about suicide pirating can easilly be split upp into 2 groups.

Group 1 are the lazy ones who wish to be able to hit autopilot and watch TV while their ship flies to the destination.
This group represents about 90% of the targets and I simply cant feel much pity for them.

Group 2 are the ones that argue that as the "risk vs reward" mantra is second to none in importance when it comes to making isk this too should be the case for high sec piracy.

Personally I feel the game is far too lenient on high sec pirates.
I am fairly certain that recycled alts, while a bannable offence, are used to do it more than is known, ither that or there are ways to increase ones sec rating far too fast.

Suicide piracy has been ingame since day one and will be ingame as long as you can open fire on players you are not at war with in high sec.
A minimum of foresight will make you almost safe from it but the balance is still too much in favor of the pirate, after all he is ebil pirate scum, if he isnt treated like he is then he is cheated out of his game.

Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.29 23:03:00 - [21]
 

Alternate solution: fly with a sensor boosted Osprey/Basilisk and fit a buncha shield extenders/plates. Should be able to resist a lot more damage that way.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.09.29 23:05:00 - [22]
 

BTW there's another contributing factor to suicide ganking that just ocurred to me:

Ship prices.

When I started playing EvE, Ravens were about 115-120M, so if you lost one, you were out 15-20M ISK after the insurance paid out. Call it 50M with T1 fittings to use one for a suicide gank.

Now they're about 90-95M, or were when I last looked. So that gank will now only cost you 25M or so: your cost base to suicide gank with that raven has halved.


Additionally, faction ammo is now widely available, so you can get a big ol' +10-20% DPS boost relatively cheaply, reducing the number of ships you need.

So, all you suicide gankees, the next time someone asks how macro-miners and mission-farmers are doing you any harm, you'll have an answer ready... right?

Petrothian Tong
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.29 23:54:00 - [23]
 

if you must use T1..

put in as many med shield extender as you can..

on an iteron V you can get to about 4.5k shields...

this is enough to force them to use bigger/more ships to gank ya.


but I would go with T2 transports though.



Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.09.30 00:09:00 - [24]
 

ok, now for the other side... you get a cloaking hauler jump into your gatecamp and cloak. You saw exactly where he was because the gate activated and you have your eyes open... you should have expected a cloaker to come in so you should have people all around the gate at about 20km or so and there should be some drone ships in your camp.... quickly send the drones from one camper to another until you hit his spot and decloak him.... pop, pod, collect loot Cool

Boring name
Posted - 2007.09.30 00:14:00 - [25]
 

I have made 25 trips in total with my Mammoth to jita with 900-1.1b in cargo each time to Jita in the last month, I havn't had any problems at all, it seems that when people get ganked, it's either that they are reetarded, or is afk

Boring name
Posted - 2007.09.30 00:15:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
ok, now for the other side... you get a cloaking hauler jump into your gatecamp and cloak. You saw exactly where he was because the gate activated and you have your eyes open... you should have expected a cloaker to come in so you should have people all around the gate at about 20km or so and there should be some drone ships in your camp.... quickly send the drones from one camper to another until you hit his spot and decloak him.... pop, pod, collect loot Cool


I really doubt a high sec camp will be this organised

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.30 19:50:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 30/09/2007 20:00:20
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 30/09/2007 19:59:28
Originally by: Aaron
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 29/09/2007 19:40:04
You know, warping to the next gate work even better. And the industrials or haulers can't warp when cloaked so it has absolutly no use, as to warp you need to de cloak and then reach the speed to warp.

Quote:
Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.



Laughing


The only reason why cloak is used is to get out of the gankers web/jam range, once you are at about 40km away from ganker, de cloak and warp, they cannot possibly web or jam from that range, giving hauler time to get to warp speed then initiate warp, did i not explain it properly?



You are speaking of high security systems. Sucide ganking happens only in high security. Your suggestion are geared for low sec or 0.0.

So you are missing a lot of points:

1) if you need to move in high security like you where in a entry point in 0.0 you already are doing something wrong, 40 km in a industrial at 20 m/s (under cloak) are 2.000 seconds. Try hauling something at that speed;

Edit: apparently you do it. De gustibus

2) there is 0 (zero) need to jam and web you in high security. The only useful mod is the warp scrambler and it work only as long as the attacker isn't jammed by Concord. What the attacker need is a lot of DPS, with an high alpha and possibly some kind of attack that concord can't jam;

3) while being a 40 km can help against drones you still need to accelerate after decloaking to enter warp, so you are still a target for enough time to be killed. What you need is a tank, not a cloak. And a fast aligning/warping ship.

4) Only an 1 year and an half, but staying at the helm and warping and I have never been ganked in high sec. And I am getting to my destination way faster than you going 40 KM on cloak.

To point it your suggestion work if you are at war in high sec, but again, attacking a war target is not suicide gankin.

Agent Li
Caldari
CCCP INC
Posted - 2007.09.30 20:07:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Aaron
Ok, Ive read many forums about suicide ganks recently and I cant understand why it is still happening, CCP has made it very simple to avoid a suicide gank heres how;

1, Fit your hauler with a prototype cloaking device,

2, If you lazy a-ss haulers have even bothered to analyse jumping into a system you will notice that you always appear about 12 to 15km away from all objects,

3, Immiediatly upon entering a system, double click in a direction away from all ships and objects so your ship will start to fly in that direction, half a second after double clicking, click the cloak.

4, U will appear on everyones overview for a fraction of a second, however in high sec there should be quite a few ships floating around so u should go un-noticed. Small and fast suicide gankers may try to bump you, but because they may not have even seen you enter the system they shouldnt, just pray your name doesnt appear at the top of the local channel. so your now flying away from gate at about 20km per second, use this time to look at big ships that seem to be hanging about around the gate, your objective is to get out of their webify/jamming range, then initiate warp. when u get to about 40km away from every thing initiate warp, no one can jam you cos your to far away.

5, Repeat steps 3 to 4 until you reach your destination.

Thats it, a logical solution to a problem, If any hauler does not use this technique and posts a forum complaining about being suicide ganked they deserved to be flamed to kingdom come.

Use your brain, thats why god gave it to you.




While nice in theory, there are competent players who can gank you even if you do this.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.09.30 20:11:00 - [29]
 

not in highsec, not without an awfull lot of organization, planning, time, and preperation

Cyberman Mastermind
Posted - 2007.10.01 08:24:00 - [30]
 

Easier solution: No insurance when shot by Concord.


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