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Original Species
Posted - 2007.09.29 16:45:00 - [1]
 

Im fealing like the Apoc needs a dedication to missles. I like the Idea of a armor tanking BS with a 25% ROF Bonus to Torps or Cruise....

Ofcourse you can kiss fleet warfare goodbuy, but then you can hang out with the Raven pilots gaurding pos's.....

Ena Miri
Posted - 2007.09.29 16:56:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Ena Miri on 29/09/2007 16:57:04
This is indeed an excellent idea. It has already been discussed in this thread and in many others I can't find atm, but obviously it will never happen... Too bad, with all those Khanid ships, Amarr player have a ****load of missile skills ^^

Kristoffer
Amarr
Dashavatara
Posted - 2007.09.29 17:24:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kristoffer on 29/09/2007 17:24:02
No, Amarr does not need a missile spewing g-a-yvenpoc, go train Caldari. The Apoc needs an optimal range bonus, and that is all it needs.

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2007.09.29 17:45:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kristoffer
Edited by: Kristoffer on 29/09/2007 17:24:02
No, Amarr does not need a missile spewing g-a-yvenpoc, go train Caldari. The Apoc needs an optimal range bonus, and that is all it needs.


Maybe it gets both. T1 Apoc gets an optimal bonus, and the upcoming T2 mission BS will be made by Khanid Innovations and be an overgrown Sacrilege-Damnation symbiosis, with bonuses to torp damage and velocity (torps without velocity bonus suck more than torps without RoF bonus imho).

Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.29 20:52:00 - [5]
 

What is that? The king of capacitor using cap-less weapons?

It may be cool, but IMO not a good idea.

CptEagle
Gallente
Genius Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Acoco Osiris
What is that? The king of capacitor using cap-less weapons?

It may be cool, but IMO not a good idea.

The cap bonus should be replaced with a missile velocity bonus then.

mallina
Caldari
SUNDERING
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:48:00 - [7]
 

With an Opt Range bonus, it might actually be useful

or Cap Use + Armor Resist

Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.29 21:55:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: CptEagle
Originally by: Acoco Osiris
What is that? The king of capacitor using cap-less weapons?

It may be cool, but IMO not a good idea.

The cap bonus should be replaced with a missile velocity bonus then.
And take away the best sub-capital ship for perma-running heavy SBs without cap injectors? Lasers and reppers aren't the only thing which req cap.

Ash'el
Amarr
Posted - 2007.09.30 00:42:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kristoffer
Edited by: Kristoffer on 29/09/2007 17:24:02
No, Amarr does not need a missile spewing g-a-yvenpoc, go train Caldari. The Apoc needs an optimal range bonus, and that is all it needs.


/Signed

Neo Providence
Posted - 2007.09.30 01:21:00 - [10]
 

we don't need another raven.

Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente
Infomorph Technologies
Posted - 2007.09.30 05:14:00 - [11]
 

I personally wish the Apoc had a projectile bonus instead of the laser cap use. It would even fit in with the background, since I think the Apoc is an Ammatar ship.

Warrio
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.30 06:02:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Neo Providence
we don't need another raven.


Don't we NePro?
Don't we?

Petrothian Tong
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.30 07:02:00 - [13]
 

wait for the T2 BS that comes out this November.


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:02:00 - [14]
 

WHAT ? You mean, you wouldn't like THIS Khanid Apocalypse ?

60/60/50/35 base armor resists
7/4/8 slots, 6 launchers, 5 turrets

Amarr BS skill bonus : -5% armor resists, +5% torpedo damage
Violator skill bonus : -5% cap recharge time, -5% torpedo RoF

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:11:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Akita T
WHAT ? You mean, you wouldn't like THIS Khanid Apocalypse ?

60/60/50/35 base armor resists
7/4/8 slots, 6 launchers, 5 turrets

Amarr BS skill bonus : -5% armor resists, +5% torpedo damage
Violator skill bonus : -5% cap recharge time, -5% torpedo RoF


That makes me happy. In the pants. It would be a completely unbalanced unstoppable solopwnmobile, but boy would it be fun to fly for the two or three weeks until it got nerfed into the pavement.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:30:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 30/09/2007 08:56:31

Originally by: Amarria Black
That makes me happy. In the pants. It would be a completely unbalanced unstoppable solopwnmobile, but boy would it be fun to fly for the two or three weeks until it got nerfed into the pavement.

Naaah, because on top of

Khanid Apocalypse (armortanker)
60/60/50/35 base armor resists
8/4/8 slots, 7 launchers, 5 turrets
Amarr BS : -5% armor resists, +5% torpedo damage
Violator : -5% cap recharge time, +10% torpedo flight speed

you'll also get...

Duvolle Labs Megathron (armortanker)
60/10/67.5/56.66 armor resists
8/5/7 slots, 8 guns, 2 launchers
Gallente BS : 5% large hybrid damage, 7.5% large hybrid tracking
Violator : -5% MWD penality, -5% large hybrid RoF

Boundless Creations Tempest (whatevertanker)
50/60/40/46.66 shield resists and 85/10/25/56.66 armor resists
8/6/6 slots, 7 guns, 4 launchers
Minmatar BS : -5% large proj RoF, +5% large proj damage
Violator : 7.5% large proj tracking, 5% large proj falloff

Kaalakiota Raven (shieldtanker)
0/60/60/60 base shield resists
8/7/5 slots, 7 launchers, 4 turrets
Caldari BS : -5% shield resists, -5% torp/cruise RoF
Violator : +5% torp/cruise KIN damage, +10% torp/cruise flight speed

Twisted EvilYARRRR!!Cool

Aerin Cloudfayr
the evil ones
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:33:00 - [17]
 

There's a racial correlation to the available bonuses for each races' ship classes.

The Amarran T1 bonuses are the following:

+5% Armour resists: Punisher, Maller, Prophecy, Abaddon.
+5% Laser RoF: Omen, Armageddon
+5% Weapon Damage: Executioner, Inquisitor(Missiles), Arbitrator(Drones), Harbinger, Abaddon.
+5% EW Effectiveness: Crucifier, Arbitrator.

Unique:
+10% Armour Hitpoints + Logistics: Augoror
+5% Capacitor Capacity: Apocalypse (...)

I won't mention mining. Note that there's only one missile-oriented ship in this lineup, and that the available bonus is 10% damage/lvl damage to EM missiles, and 5% damage/lvl for all other missiles. Assuming the Devs aren't just cooking bonuses up out of nowhere anymore, this would be the most likely bonus for an Amarr T1 missile platform, realigning the available ships with the inherent trends.

I've got to say though, the Apoc's got to be the best suited battleship to stop Vagabonds. Mass cap + Neuts anyone? Still. It's a freak-bonused ship in anyones' books.ugh

Boomhaur
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:35:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Boomhaur on 30/09/2007 08:35:34
ahhh nvm

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:35:00 - [19]
 

Turning Amarr ships into some bastardised version of another race is not a way to fix them. It really should get some form of tanking bonus to put it in line with the tank line of ship already there (punisher -> Maller -> Proph).

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:37:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 30/09/2007 08:38:23

Vengeance -> Sacrilege -> Damnation -> Khanid Apocalypse

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:40:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Akita T
WHAT ? You mean, you wouldn't like THIS Khanid Apocalypse ?

60/60/50/35 base armor resists
8/4/7 slots, 7 launchers, 5 turrets

Amarr BS skill bonus : +5% armor resists, +5% torpedo damage
Violator skill bonus : -5% cap recharge time, +10% torpedo velocity


Fixed it for you. Now it has a little less damage than your proposal, different enough from the raven through having damage bonus instead of RoF, and not firing torps slower than your ship on MWD.
If it really becomes a Torp boat without velocity bonus I will just cry.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.30 08:50:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 30/09/2007 08:55:24

After what they did with the Damnation, it might be a possibility too.
But it'd probably be 8/4/8, 7 launchers, 5 (or 6) turrets then.
Edited "compressed" post above.

bundy bear
Posted - 2007.10.01 22:22:00 - [23]
 

Would be a slap in the fac laser users.

They would realy need to rework the abaddon so it can actually tank and gank if they want to do this.

IamBen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.10.01 22:42:00 - [24]
 

I personally like the ship as is. Its great for lasers and cap warfare.

Rogue Clone
Posted - 2007.10.01 22:51:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Original Species
Im fealing like the Apoc needs a dedication to missles. I like the Idea of a armor tanking BS with a 25% ROF Bonus to Torps or Cruise....

Ofcourse you can kiss fleet warfare goodbuy, but then you can hang out with the Raven pilots gaurding pos's.....


I think its a cool idea and would go along with the new khandid changes nicely... it'll never happen though.

Matiaj
Posted - 2007.10.02 00:42:00 - [26]
 

That's the great Amarrian Paradox for you. Amarr pilots spend their time complaining about their lack of flexibility, but won't accept anything except yet another one redundant armortanked laserboat. :/

Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.02 00:48:00 - [27]
 

This cought me off guard. Last month was "drone apoc" month.

Danari
Invictus Australis
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.10.02 00:49:00 - [28]
 

I like the apoc as it is and apparently I'm not alone. Yesterday in our vfk/2r- engagement 90% of the Amarr bs in fleet were apocs (and Amarr bs were about equal in numbers to the other races). I've seen Abaddon use trail off dramatically, presumably because pilots tire of capping out in extended engagements.

If any Amarr ship needs fixing tbh I think it's the Abaddon. It has just about enough cap to run missile launchers Laughing

Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
Posted - 2007.10.02 03:13:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Matiaj
That's the great Amarrian Paradox for you. Amarr pilots spend their time complaining about their lack of flexibility, but won't accept anything except yet another one redundant armortanked laserboat. :/


I thought we all complained about how our ships lacked the slots and/or bonuses to fulfill their intended roles. And how the benefits of lasers in no way equal or exceed their significant drawbacks. And how it's an utter travesty that several ships are better served by fitting the facking Minmatari "racial weapon" with zero bonuses than fitting the Amarr "racial weapon" with one or two bonuses. And how firing lasers for any extended period of time is essentially attempting to drown your opponent in your own arterial blood.

*turns his copy of Pax Amarria right side up*

Oops, m'bad. Yeah, lack of flexibility.

Kazuma Saruwatari
Posted - 2007.10.02 03:30:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 02/10/2007 03:30:32
Amarr arent meant to be flexible. Tank and Gank. End of.

Problem is, its either Tank or Gank. This is where Amarr needs work.Rolling Eyes

And missile-based T1 Apoc? I'll accept a Khanid T2 Apoc hull like that, but by god, dont butcher the normal one just because it needs help.Rolling Eyes


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