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blankseplocked If Micro$oft SQL is so flaky...
 
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Bill Oddie
Posted - 2007.09.15 14:38:00 - [1]
 

then is it worth CCP investigating a serious database solution like IBM DB2 or Oracle?

They seem to have spent a fortune on the latest greatest hardware and it seems every time the server goes west they blame some hardware but then find that the database is dodgy.

I also wonder if CCP need to hire more DB savvy staff to really get to the crux of the DB problems they're encountering far too often.

Quote:
...can be used to build stable and efficient systems and the stability and effectiveness of your applications and databases depend rather from the experience of the database developers and database administrator than from the database's provider.

Quote above from a search of database comparisons so maybe MSSQL might be OK if driven correctly. The article did go on to state that MSSQL is easier install, use and manage compared to IBM DB2 v8.1.

But alas the CCP lads are having a terrible time of it now. Here's hoping a solution to all our (and their) woes are found soon.

Grapez
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2007.09.15 14:47:00 - [2]
 

Agreed. Not that they should definately switch database software, but I think it should be something considered. Even if it took CCP a few days to migrate everything and test it, I think the long-term trade off would be worth it. And come on, MSSQL? I'd have gotten laughed out of my last job had I suggested we use it.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.09.15 14:53:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: grapez
Agreed. Not that they should definately switch database software, but I think it should be something considered. Even if it took CCP a few days to migrate everything and test it, I think the long-term trade off would be worth it. And come on, MSSQL? I'd have gotten laughed out of my last job had I suggested we use it.
A few days! Laughing

In fact really that comment needs more.

ShockedLaughingRolling EyesLaughing

I have no real idea what it would entail but I would tentatively guess at over six months and that assume they can find new hardware and support partners. The Eve back-end database is a monster. Make no mistake about it. There isn't an IT provider or operator in the world that would just take it on without a serious think. What you are suggesting is a major, major project.

Like it or lump it - CCP are saddled with getting their current hardware and software working. I'm sure that eventually they will indeed do that but for now we just have to patient. They are working hard on the problem and eventually they will have a solution.

Bill Oddie
Posted - 2007.09.15 14:54:00 - [4]
 

I wonder if at the time of Eve's creation and the forecast of player numbers and the expected number of transactions left Micro$soft SQL as the clear price/transaction winner.

But as the subscriber base has grown and the items count has soared and the transactions increased is it now left waning?

Bill Oddie
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:00:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Bill Oddie on 15/09/2007 15:01:50
Edited by: Bill Oddie on 15/09/2007 15:00:46
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: grapez
Agreed. Not that they should definately switch database software, but I think it should be something considered. Even if it took CCP a few days to migrate everything and test it, I think the long-term trade off would be worth it. And come on, MSSQL? I'd have gotten laughed out of my last job had I suggested we use it.
A few days! Laughing

In fact really that comment needs more.

ShockedLaughingRolling EyesLaughing



I have no real idea what it would entail but I would tentatively guess at over six months and that assume they can find new hardware and support partners. The Eve back-end database is a monster. Make no mistake about it. There isn't an IT provider or operator in the world that would just take it on without a serious think. What you are suggesting is a major, major project.

Like it or lump it - CCP are saddled with getting their current hardware and software working. I'm sure that eventually they will indeed do that but for now we just have to patient. They are working hard on the problem and eventually they will have a solution.


There are big companies out there that have that sort of experience and then some. When Banks, Airlines, Mining Companies, Telecommunications, etc outsource who do they go to? I won't mention names just yet, but suffice to say Eve is nowhere near the transaction counts or stability of a banking system or other large systems.

Also they have heavily invested in serious hardware recently so yes a migration to another vendors DB will be a big task it is not impossible.

Edit: fixed the dodgy quote/reply format.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:05:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 15/09/2007 15:05:03
Originally by: Bill Oddie

Edit: fixed the dodgy quote/reply format.
No you didn't Wink

..and while you're right about other large databases existing and that can companies can migrate the data I didn't actually say that there wasn't. What I wrote was that no-one would consider it trivial. It would be expensive, would take several months and at this stage we have no idea how successful it would be.

Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: grapez
Agreed. Not that they should definately switch database software, but I think it should be something considered. Even if it took CCP a few days to migrate everything and test it, I think the long-term trade off would be worth it. And come on, MSSQL? I'd have gotten laughed out of my last job had I suggested we use it.

A few days! With comments like that I'm wouldn't be surprised if you got laughed at.

This thread is typical of the **** that I have to put up with in my job.

Clueless Dipstick: X is crap, Y is better.
Me: Can I have the figures to back this up.
CD: EVERYBODY knows it, anyway it will just take a few days to change.

Bill Oddie
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:16:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Andrue
Edited by: Andrue on 15/09/2007 15:05:03
Originally by: Bill Oddie

Edit: fixed the dodgy quote/reply format.
No you didn't Wink

..and while you're right about other large databases existing and that can companies can migrate the data I didn't actually say that there wasn't. What I wrote was that no-one would consider it trivial. It would be expensive, would take several months and at this stage we have no idea how successful it would be.


At the end of the day all we can do is speculate for the better. CCP are never going to discuss these sorts of high level changes with us on a heavily moderated public forum. We inevitably find out after the fact. (unless you're Bob with MSN.)

But it sure would be nice to know if there is anything in the pipeline.

Ciphero
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:18:00 - [9]
 

apt-get install mysql

\o/

Bill Oddie
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:19:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Banana Torres


This thread is typical of the **** that I have to put up with in my job.

Clueless Dipstick: X is crap, Y is better.
Me: Can I have the figures to back this up.
CD: EVERYBODY knows it, anyway it will just take a few days to change.



Do you work with a dude called Dilbert perchance? Does your manager have pointy hair?

Sicori Malaki
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.15 15:26:00 - [11]
 

I doubt mysql would be doing much better.

Althou I have no expertise in the matter at hand, but it's not just about which SQL to use, you have to think about the fact it has to run as a cluster. The Eve database isn't running on a single computer, it's on dousens of them running as a cluster.

And I dont think Banks and airlines are all running from a single database cluster because .. imho that would rather stupid, they are probably in forests with interconnection if they need to search each other.

and yes.. if you look at standard sql servers on a single server, then I'd take mysql over mssql any day of the week .. but when I have to run a cluster database.. I dont have a clue what I'd pick.


 

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