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Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2007.09.13 20:55:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Frug
I know a few people who would gladly pay triple for some of Fina's implants.


Good luck finding any of them. I'm immortal, and you know it Cool

AdmiralNaismith
Gallente
The Black Guards
Solaris Consortium
Posted - 2007.09.13 20:58:00 - [32]
 


And they would need corpse launchers, of course.

Funny how everything comes back to that.



Bob Stuart
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
Posted - 2007.09.13 21:13:00 - [33]
 


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2007.09.13 21:27:00 - [34]
 

or seed implant bpos and each corpse can be salvaged for required materials

Very Happy

Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2007.09.13 21:49:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Winterblink
Not quite 0, if I recall space can never get to 0 kelvin due to residual background radiation. Comes close though, like a few degrees off.



Yeah but don't forget the horrible, horrible solar winds that tear apart and plague all the fragile molecules you find in living matter, as well as wreak havoc on electronics.

I still like the idea though. I think it would encourage pvp.

Solar wind decreases with the square of the distance from the star. (2x farther away = 1/4th the strength). At 3-4 AU it's so weak as to be hard to measure.

Dr Ming
Mindworks
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:05:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Winterblink
Not quite 0, if I recall space can never get to 0 kelvin due to residual background radiation. Comes close though, like a few degrees off.



In regards to the whole 'how frozen are those corpses' thing:

Temperature measures how energetic molecules are. 'Space' does not have many molecules, a vacuum.

A perfect vacuum wouldn't have a temperature. Which isn't the same thing as being cold.

AFIK, if you heated up a hot-pocket and jettisoned it and waited for an hour or so, it would still be hot, because the only means of heat transfer in a vacuum is by radiation. Which I don't recall as being an overly fast method of heat transfer.

I think the whole 'frozen corpses' thing is just artistic license.

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:17:00 - [37]
 

It'd be a desiccated husk after a bit, because in space water both freezes and boils at the same time.

Yes, the corpse would be "frozen" but most of the water would boil out of it and freeze, as well as many other compounds. Unless disturbed, a corpse floating in space would probably resemble a mummified body with small cloud of gas and ice crystals around it that would disssipate over time.

And yes, it would freeze, as the molecules in the corpse would lose energy over time and without a source to replace them would move more slowly. If it's floating somewhere that sunlight can shine on it and it's within a few AU of a sun, it'll alternately freeze and cook on different sides as it tumbles. If it's behind something else that blocks radiation, it'd be frozen solid.

Dr Ming
Mindworks
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:27:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Jimer Lins
It'd be a desiccated husk after a bit, because in space water both freezes and boils at the same time.

Yes, the corpse would be "frozen" but most of the water would boil out of it and freeze, as well as many other compounds. Unless disturbed, a corpse floating in space would probably resemble a mummified body with small cloud of gas and ice crystals around it that would disssipate over time.

And yes, it would freeze, as the molecules in the corpse would lose energy over time and without a source to replace them would move more slowly. If it's floating somewhere that sunlight can shine on it and it's within a few AU of a sun, it'll alternately freeze and cook on different sides as it tumbles. If it's behind something else that blocks radiation, it'd be frozen solid.



Where is the heat from the corpse going exactly? And how?

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:36:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Frug
I know a few people who would gladly pay triple for some of Fina's implants.


Good luck finding any of them. I'm immortal, and you know it Cool


I have watched 3 people spend a good half our attempting to dispute your immortality without any success. So, unfortunately, I can't refute your claim.

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:39:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Dr Ming
Originally by: Jimer Lins
It'd be a desiccated husk after a bit, because in space water both freezes and boils at the same time.

Yes, the corpse would be "frozen" but most of the water would boil out of it and freeze, as well as many other compounds. Unless disturbed, a corpse floating in space would probably resemble a mummified body with small cloud of gas and ice crystals around it that would disssipate over time.

And yes, it would freeze, as the molecules in the corpse would lose energy over time and without a source to replace them would move more slowly. If it's floating somewhere that sunlight can shine on it and it's within a few AU of a sun, it'll alternately freeze and cook on different sides as it tumbles. If it's behind something else that blocks radiation, it'd be frozen solid.



Where is the heat from the corpse going exactly? And how?


It's being lost through convection. Vacuum is a good insulator, but it's not perfect; and anything in a vacuum with no heat source (ie, radiant heat from the sun, because it's in the shade) would freeze eventually.

Also, a HUGE percentage of the heat would be carried off by the chemical reactions that would occur when the body was first exposed to space. Water simultaneously boils and freezes, and the cloud of vapor that would erupt from every orifice and pore of the corpse after a short period of exposure to space would serve to carry off a pretty good chunk of energy.

The vacuum of space doesn't get you around entropy. ;)

Actually though- it's theoretically possible to survive hard vacuum for a short period, like maybe 20-30 seconds. Anything beyond that and you get CO2 bubbles in the blood, surface damage, your eyeballs freeze, your skin starts cracking... yucky.

(all this assumes the corpse is shaded, if it's exposed to sunlight, it'd cook on one side and freeze on the other. Yeesh.)

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.13 23:43:00 - [41]
 

Maybe the reaction wouldn't be so violent- sounds like you'd just slowly freeze:

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html

Turns out the liquid inside the body is protected enough that it doesn't start boiling away, but instead would probably just freeze slowly.


Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2007.09.14 00:03:00 - [42]
 

How about you reprocess killmails for pure epeen?

Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
Posted - 2007.09.14 00:05:00 - [43]
 

I think there is suck potential in this idea. Removing (in part or full) the game's only implant sink would inevitably mean that implants just lose further value.

Further devaluation of implants is unneccessary IMO. Due to their provision from multiple sources, most implants are already available at rock bottom prices, making them economically unviable for mission runners to buy with their LP.

Dubious Drewski
Posted - 2007.09.14 00:14:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Illyria Ambri
Now if only we could get the implants info to say WHo the implant came from..

"This implant was extracted from the frozen corpse of (insert name here)"

Hmm maybe a new market would be built on the implants of your enemies..

Sir Molles implants.. 50mill
Ginger Magicians implants.. 40mill
Random Newbie implants.. 1mill

A whole new wave of *cough* named *cough* implants.

****t.. I'll trade you 6 Goonswarm pilot implants for 3 RISE implants.. :)


Awesome.

That is all I have to say. I'd sign this biosalvaging idea for this aspect alone.

General StarScream
Araton Aerospace Corporation
Posted - 2007.09.14 00:17:00 - [45]
 

Or you could invent, bpc, wich you need biomass salvage from.

if the pod had implants you get like 1-10% maybe of it.

and you can use those parts to build new implants you have invented.


Sweetpain
Gallente
Bootcamp Alpha
Posted - 2007.09.14 00:20:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Sweetpain on 14/09/2007 00:25:48
better if people could just change the salvaged head out with their own and inherrit all their skills and implants while discarding their own skills and implants.

offcourse no warning is given before its their choice of the day what head they like to use.

Would you really plug in a Inteligence booster implant after it been in the freezing space for a time? if you do then you desperately need it.

or would you cook it first to clean it and maybe put it in lead box for 50 years to make sure no radiactive dust or particles are transfered to your head at the same time?

There are hundreds of good reasons to why this is a bad idea, and the most important of them all is that this game the few money sinks it have.

EDIT:
The game is good as it are, you gain no benefits from blowing up pods if they dont have bounties on them. the game is about blowing up ships, not people. This game don't need yet another good reason for people to not go to 0.0, it need the opposite actually.

Dr Ming
Mindworks
Posted - 2007.09.14 05:11:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Jimer Lins
Maybe the reaction wouldn't be so violent- sounds like you'd just slowly freeze:


I would think that emphasis is likely on the slowly part.

There are three general methods of heat transfer: Conduction, Convection, and Radiation.

Conduction and Convection are matter on matter exchanges.

Since a vacuum is lacking in the ambient matter department, then Conduction and Convection won't really be coming into play in a meaningful way.

This leaves the radiation of electromagnetic waves as the only real means of heat transfer. Which isn't something that heat is prone to do rapidly (unless you do something silly like set off a nuke in a vacuum).


Poked around on the whole water bit. It looks like liquid water is completely unstable in a vacuum and can only exist as a solid or a gas. So it seems to be more of a pressure issue than a 'temperature' issue. It looks like that if you had a bottle of water with zero insulation in space, that it would be a long time in freezing.

Zhett Haukes
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.09.14 08:29:00 - [48]
 

I would be happy if implants showed up on pod killmails tbh.

Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
Posted - 2007.09.14 09:27:00 - [49]
 

I a slightly different suggestion to this a while ago, but it didn't meet with much support.

The basic idea is you would be able to 'salvage' a corpse to get bio material which could be used to construct implants. Certain implant BPOs would be available from NPC stations and some BPCs would be found in rare loot drops or LP offers.

Cheers,
Arrs

Horionte
Bol Lox Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.14 09:49:00 - [50]
 

It'd drop implant prices a fair bit, and I'm all for that Laughing

Erotic Irony
0bsession
Posted - 2007.09.14 10:53:00 - [51]
 

this will never ever happen, its such a gameplay nonsequiter

besides, we need implants and clone grade on killmails before anything approaching such a mechanism was implemented

Gaven Blands
Caldari
Cosmic Fusion
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:01:00 - [52]
 

Salvage components. Head Rigs. :(
More training & Boosts for Veterans.

Xoria Krint
The Empyreans
Fifth Freedom
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:02:00 - [53]
 

Xoria approve this threat.

Vienna Gates
Caldari
Aperture Research Laboratories
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:05:00 - [54]
 

Hell yes! Gatecampers will now have an excuse to pop and pod everything that comes out of the gates Laughing

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:47:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Sweetpain
Edited by: Sweetpain on 14/09/2007 00:25:48
There are hundreds of good reasons to why this is a bad idea, and the most important of them all is that this game the few money sinks it have.


How do you remove ISK from Eve by destroying implants?

Clone renewal is an isksink. Not the destruction of implants.

Redback911
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.14 11:52:00 - [56]
 

How is losing your implants NOT an isksink? Unless you never replace them?

A very pure ISK sink imo.

Bob Stuart
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
Posted - 2007.09.14 12:05:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Redback911
How is losing your implants NOT an isksink? Unless you never replace them?

A very pure ISK sink imo.


Its not an Isk sink, because the money you spend to replace them mostly goes to other players, and doesn't exit the EVE economy, like money spent on NPC provided items does.

Some Isk exits the economy when people spend their LPs and isk on the loyalty shop, but this is only a small amount. Especially compared to the amount of isk generated from nowhere by the missions needed to get the LPs.

If implants were available to buy directly from the Implant producing NPC corporations, then they'd be an isk sink.

But when implants are found as loot from rats or structures, and created out of nothing by mission running, then they aren't an isk sink.

Lyticus
Posted - 2007.09.14 12:16:00 - [58]
 

This idea gets my seal of haxproval.

Make it so.

Kaakao
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.14 12:18:00 - [59]
 

Didnt bother to read the thread ugh

How could you salvage a working implant from a corpse, when you cant get em out of a live head?

Illyria Ambri
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.14 12:20:00 - [60]
 

This would be more along the lines of redistributing the implants.
The ISK sink would be.. unless you have a collection of spare implants or looted ones... you'd have to buy more.

If implants are more readily available via biosalvage, it wont be such a problem loosing them and more pvp may occur as its not as big a concern to acquire new ones.

Jita is probably a goldmine of biosalvage...

This would encourage ppl to pod higher SP players rather then newbies as the implants they would have will most likely not be worth the effort. Not that that would stop them from podding everyone they can anyways Laughing


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