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blankseplocked Good fight and nice fail CCP
 
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skragg
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.09.10 17:19:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Ifni
tournament itself was an immesnse success and should hopefully lay the groudwork for future events to build upon.


Agreed, though from many various opinions throughout the forums. Between the problems identified in this thread and the farce of the schedule timings, the gloss was taken off the tournament by a mediocre final day in terms of conduct, decisions and presentation.

Maybe in future the end of tourney party should happen 'after the tourney', either straight after or the next night.

Ifni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.10 17:33:00 - [62]
 

Heh, I'm not doing this to gain any favour at CCP. If I get invited back I get invited back. As it stands the second tournament of any year will always be a pain for me since I use up all my annual holiday allotment doing the first one. Last time round I had to take 2 weeks unpaid leave to come to Iceland, as a volunteer, right before Christmas.

Regardless of that, I believe what I'm saying, and I have poked GM Nova to make his post. As you say "examine the facts and make comments on what your gut feeling tells you" which is exactly what I'm doing. I don't have the facts on the matter, since I wasn't watching local as keenly as those competing were. My gut feeling on the matter is that the forums tend to be centered around drama, and if I let that get in the way of making an unbiased post, then we would be here all day hearing about warp core stabs and use of alts to trap people.

As for the commentating on the lag, what does it matter if it took 1 second or 5? You don't start the match until you see 'Go' in local. Anything else is just idiocy. I won't be drawn on saying if this was or wasn't a GM error, so please stop implying it as such.

Apart from that, it seems two points are being made by your post; the first is that the suggested failure of the ECM Burst allowed Pandemic Legion to gain the upper hand in the match. The second is that because of this ECM Burst failure, the match was thus predetermined to not go your way due to underhand Pandemic Legion tactics (prelocking).

I will happily, after my earlier forum beating, admit that I do not know. I lack complete information on the events at hand to give a definitive conclusion and was merely trying to present an alternate conclusion instead of an answer.

skragg
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.09.10 17:49:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: skragg on 10/09/2007 20:22:14
Originally by: Ifni
'we would be here all day hearing about warp core stabs and use of alts to trap people.


Ouch, that hurts Very Happy

Originally by: Ifni

the first is that the suggested failure of the ECM Burst allowed Pandemic Legion to gain the upper hand in the match. The second is that because of this ECM Burst failure, the match was thus predetermined to not go your way due to underhand Pandemic Legion tactics (prelocking).




Thanks for your honest opinion and the clarification.

I would like to again say that I am not blaming PL in any way shape and form, the ECM burst is intended to counter anyone who locks prior to the word go.

The fact that the ECM Burst did not go off is not their fault and I do not count their locking as 'underhand tactics', I count it as gamesmanship and the mechanics worked for them so no problems there in my book.
They won fairly under those specific circumstances.

Jasese
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.09.10 18:11:00 - [64]
 

Gms incompetence shines through again, try to do SOMETHING right next time please.

Posting on behalf of Crucifier, member of Dark Cartel.

skragg
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.09.10 20:41:00 - [65]
 

Well TI have had Bronze Alliance tournament medals delivered to their hangers.

I would be interested to know if CI have also received them and therefore there is a fair(ish) decision for how the third place is to be awarded or if it was down to the total points accrued either during the whole tournament or just for the knockout stages.

Rivek
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.09.11 03:34:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Rivek on 11/09/2007 03:34:54
I haven't re-read this thread so I could be wrong... but I'm getting the sense from several posts that PL was being unsportsman-like if not cheating.

I was one of the Eos pilots in that match and I did nothing at all aside from turn on my hardeners and gang links until I had an enemy ship lock me and go red. That was before the go command as far as I could see.

The countdown was something like 5...4...3...2...1... .. .. ..... GO (no ecm burst) Which inevitably lead to this issue. PL was not trying to gain an upperhand, only to start on "Go" just the same as you.

It was an interesting fight from our perspective anyway, being down on numbers but up on tanking/firepower midway through.

DOARota
Gallente
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2007.09.11 04:58:00 - [67]
 

Please re-read the posts. BE was making it very clear that you guys did nothing wrong. The GM's screwed up big time and that is the point that is trying to be conveyed .

Superbus Maximus
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.09.11 05:48:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Superbus Maximus on 11/09/2007 06:59:49
It sucks the fight had to go down that way. I must say that was the most nail biting fight for me of the tourney. Props to you guys as well your the only team that realized what we were doing to you and scattered.

BTW Wildcat your still on my kill mail from The Hun fight, which took place almost a half and hour later... I didn't even notice it until today lol :tinfoil:

MrMajIc
DRUCKWELLE Evolution
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.09.11 07:05:00 - [69]
 

1. Dragoon is my sex kitten
2. What did you expect, look at the patchs, the totally screwy pos warfare system now, the 200m blobs don't even work anymore....so yeah REV II the downfall of playability.
3. GL getting a solid answer out of this their hungover..

Please do not rant - Kreul Intentions

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.11 17:11:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Superbus Maximus
Edited by: Superbus Maximus on 11/09/2007 06:59:49
It sucks the fight had to go down that way. I must say that was the most nail biting fight for me of the tourney. Props to you guys as well your the only team that realized what we were doing to you and scattered.

BTW Wildcat your still on my kill mail from The Hun fight, which took place almost a half and hour later... I didn't even notice it until today lol :tinfoil:


lol, well Im on the killmail I want a copy 8).

DHB-WildCat "Overpowered ECM bursts FTW"
SuperBus "shhhhhhhhhh"

lol

anyways really good job and no rivek you guys were great opponents and no bad feelings at all towards you guys. gf

skragg
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.09.12 07:25:00 - [71]
 

I am sorry GM Nova to hear that your friend was ill and glad to hear that they are better now.

I am relieved to actually hear that the GM's are admitting that there was a mistake and the ecm burst was not set off. Maybe now all those who doubted statements we had made to this effect will actually understand why we were a little upset and realise how petty their statements were that we were whining just because we lost.

At the end of the day, this is history now and I am sure that the lack of the ECM Burst most definately gave an unfair advantage to our opponents in the semi final, PL. Though, the thing about that mistake and life in general is that you have to learn to roll with the mistakes and come back stronger. I think even though we lost the initial EW war against PL because of the GM failings we still made a very good account for ourselves and given an even playing field I am confident we would have won the match, but unfortunately, we will never actually know.

I do believe though that some form of compensation should be provided from the GM's to reimburse for the loss of standings and loyalty points in an attempt to provide some fairness to TI pilots.

Rugs
Amarr
Clown Punchers.
Posted - 2007.09.12 09:56:00 - [72]
 

Pointless whining imo.
Just watched the match again, looks like at least 5-6 TI ships fired at the same time as PL team did, can't really see an advantage there.
TI wasn't even close to breaking the tank of the Eos when they were really close and TI still had their main damage dealers out there, so either way TI would have lost.

Also loved Trevedian's comment about Wildcat, this thread pretty much shows what he meant by it, seems that the whole alliance has caught the same disease.

Dracolich
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
Posted - 2007.09.12 16:02:00 - [73]
 

People make mistakes, and admitting it is great, but I fail to understand why they didn't stop the fight, when the mistake was made.

Maybe it was due to the schedule(Can't rememeber if the PL-BE was the last of the bracket).

No doubt it was of major importance that the ECM burst had been used, given the knowledge of what BE usually do.

It might not have changed the final outcome, but surely it must have put BE in a position, where the removal of the key card, made the house of cards crumble.

DHB WildCat
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.12 16:37:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: DHB WildCat on 12/09/2007 16:38:11
Originally by: Rugs
Pointless whining imo.
Just watched the match again, looks like at least 5-6 TI ships fired at the same time as PL team did, can't really see an advantage there.
TI wasn't even close to breaking the tank of the Eos when they were really close and TI still had their main damage dealers out there, so either way TI would have lost.

Also loved Trevedian's comment about Wildcat, this thread pretty much shows what he meant by it, seems that the whole alliance has caught the same disease.



Okay this is why its hard to understand looking from outside.
1) TI fired at the same time that PL did because we had fof's loaded at the beginning. Guess what FOF's fire when aggressed against, omg.
2) With being locked at the beginning we lost our huginn to the sustained heavy focused fire. This allowed the eos's to get on top of us. They had ECM bursts fit. When we had ew control we loaded regualr missiles to focus fire ourselves. Unfortunately the ecm bursts broke our lock so we couldnt all fire. Great tactic by the way PL. So we went down.
3) Had the ecm burst gone off.... we might have gotten ew superiority before the huginn went down. We might have held the eos's at range, we might have won. Now just because you see BE tag and smack idiotically do not think we could not have won.

And about Trividian, they say that crap for the same reason you just did, you and they had NO IDEA what was going on. You give us far too little credit.
However we must not forget PL won, and thats that.

DreamWeaver99
Posted - 2007.09.14 21:41:00 - [75]
 

Hi all
I am new to the game and this is the first pvp tournament I have seen. I have a question on the starting position. Why not just have all the players warp to 500k and when they count down or say go, they warp in to the beckon (at the range they wish)and start fighting ?

Not sure if this would be a possible solution
but would think this would make this problem go away.
I am sure someone will pop holes in this idea but just asking ;)

later
dreamweaver99

Razer Morphis
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.09.15 22:28:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: LadyMadonna
Sour loosers tbh....



Spell "losers" on the blackboard 100 times while wearing a donkey hat, you lame alt.


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