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TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.09.08 21:12:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 10/09/2007 16:11:40
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 08/09/2007 21:12:57
How hard can it be, really?

I am talking about the very common issue here, random Battleship jumps into a 3 small ship gang... and logoffs, 1 min after logging he disappears.

Is it a intended game feature?

How long has it been an issue... 2-3 years? Maybe more?

Is it somehow difficult to balance it?

Is it difficult to code?

Is it a work-in-progress?

Is the whole EVE community against it?

Is CCP lacking manpower(eve cardgame... ambulation... evetv... Rolling Eyes) ?

Sorry, CCP, but... this is stupid and I can't see any reasonable excuse to this.

discuss.

There is no exuse

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.09.08 21:25:00 - [2]
 

Yes, because the EVE card game requires so much time that the programmers can't work on other things.
Rolling Eyes

Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2007.09.08 21:28:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 08/09/2007 21:29:05

Check the video in my sig. Same phenomenon.

Essentially if your opponent logs before you open fire, it doesn't matter how badly you scramble and pound him, he will disappear. Personally I think if you manage to get enough scramble on before that happens, he should stay. But that would mean a few extra people dying to crashes, and we can't have that. Rolling Eyes The problem is more people are exploiting this to avoid PVP than are dying in genuine crashes, but that is falling on deaf ears.

Major Death
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.09.08 23:32:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Major Death on 08/09/2007 23:39:38
There are currently people who mine or rat in low sec and have some sort of macro that causes them to log-off if they get targeted. They just sit there if you don't target them, but the second you do its logoff time. Even if you get the ship thanks to a crazy gank setup the pod just warps and they vanish from local.
They cannot all be crashing at the same precise moment.

Quote:
Yes, because the EVE card game requires so much time that the programmers can't work on other things.


They have a similar problem in the card game. People who are losing suddenly gather up all their cards and run away yelling "I crashed!!!".

Ed Anger
Weekly World News
Derek Knows Us
Posted - 2007.09.09 00:10:00 - [5]
 

if the emergency jump and log after a minute wasnt there, then the masses of people who crash and are then killed by npcs or gate camps would decend on the forums and crash it with the sheer weight of their posts. thats why.

Doctor Fruitloop
Posted - 2007.09.09 00:18:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Generic logoff whine about not getting to kill everyone

Welcome to Eve - sometimes you get them, most of the time they shove 2 fingers up at you when they logoff after you sat their camping a gate for 3 hours.
Can I have your stuff?

Sturack
Minmatar
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.09.09 02:09:00 - [7]
 

This glich has saved my pod many times, I LOVE IT.

But here is why, if i jump into a gate camp with more than 2 ppl(Bad Guys) my cpu lags/locks up so bad that i never even see the fight. After two minutes of vent play by play commintary by my corp mates (I just see the same darn screen) the game un-lags with my pod at the clone-bay. I do not put blame on the server, it is my crappy cpu's fault (vent runs on a seperate, even more crappy cpu). The only way i have made it out alive is by turning the cpu off as soon as lag/lock starts. Addapt and overcome adversity.
If this upsets gate-camping pirates, too bad.
Ha, ha, ha.
Twisted EvilKeep crying, yes cry and let me taste your taste your tears, the sorrow is yummy.Twisted Evil

Serves you right for saying "carebears" whine too much.

Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2007.09.09 02:13:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 09/09/2007 02:13:12

So your machine sucks but you get a kick from lag-warping out of gatecamps. Now I've heard it all.

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2007.09.09 02:45:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Major Death
Edited by: Major Death on 08/09/2007 23:39:38
There are currently people who mine or rat in low sec and have some sort of macro that causes them to log-off if they get targeted. They just sit there if you don't target them, but the second you do its logoff time. Even if you get the ship thanks to a crazy gank setup the pod just warps and they vanish from local.
They cannot all be crashing at the same precise moment.

Quote:
Yes, because the EVE card game requires so much time that the programmers can't work on other things.


They have a similar problem in the card game. People who are losing suddenly gather up all their cards and run away yelling "I crashed!!!".


Go to 0.0 and use a bubble?

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2007.09.09 02:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sturack
This glich has saved my pod many times, I LOVE IT.

But here is why, if i jump into a gate camp with more than 2 ppl(Bad Guys) my cpu lags/locks up so bad that i never even see the fight. After two minutes of vent play by play commintary by my corp mates (I just see the same darn screen) the game un-lags with my pod at the clone-bay. I do not put blame on the server, it is my crappy cpu's fault (vent runs on a seperate, even more crappy cpu). The only way i have made it out alive is by turning the cpu off as soon as lag/lock starts. Addapt and overcome adversity.
If this upsets gate-camping pirates, too bad.
Ha, ha, ha.
Twisted EvilKeep crying, yes cry and let me taste your taste your tears, the sorrow is yummy.Twisted Evil

Serves you right for saying "carebears" whine too much.


Do you mean computer when you say CPU? Neutral

Sturack
Minmatar
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.09.09 03:15:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Arana Tellen

Do you mean computer when you say CPU? Neutral


Yes

Depp Knight
Evolution
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.09.09 04:40:00 - [12]
 

Its very annoying if you roam for hours to just see ravens warp out as your warp into their belt and for them to just cloak.

It’s even more annoying if you jump into system to see 2 players to kill and they vanish from local.

Its even more annoying if you come back to that system and they are there again for them to disappear from local again.

Then it just plain bull**** when a hostile jumps into you and all he does is log.

--------

The thing is, if ccp was to nerf this log off to avoid death tactic, those who actually crash and it does happen, they are the ones that get punished. And they will point their finger, blame ccp but really it was all those who abused the system in the first place.

If there was a way to detect a crash and a ctrl q then those who actually crash can be reimburse but then players will just pull their cable out of their modem to work around this.

So in short, if you do this, if you log to avoid death, you are the cancer of the game and don’t deserve to be in our world. The problem is, there are a lot of you out there, spreading your disease to others, ruining the good cells of enjoying this game.

Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.09.09 06:39:00 - [13]
 

There are a million simple fixes to correct the problem of people logging off to avoid combat. Why CCP has not fixed this yet is beyond me. A simple change, such as making it so you can not exit the game while engaged in combat would go a long way towards fixing things.

Derovius Vaden
Posted - 2007.09.09 06:42:00 - [14]
 


You can't fix whats not broken. So either break it or deal.

Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.09 07:55:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
There are a million simple fixes to correct the problem of people logging off to avoid combat. Why CCP has not fixed this yet is beyond me. A simple change, such as making it so you can not exit the game while engaged in combat would go a long way towards fixing things.


A million? OK give me five.

Pilot "A" warps into a gang of Banjo Playing Gate Campers straight out of Deliverance country. He loses connection due to a faulty hamster at his ISP.

Pilot "B" warps into the same gang of Banjo Playing Gate Campers straight out of Deliverance country. He loses connection because in a sudden burst of frantic activity he heaves his coffee laden and kebab stuffed 200 kilo body off his chair and yanks his network cable out of the router.

Pilot "C" warps into the by now extremely ****ed off gang of Banjo Playing Gate Campers straight out of Deliverance country. He loses connection due to CCP leaving the Server cage open and allowing the Hamsters to escape.

Your example penalises all three pilots the same. All three lose thier ship, though only one deserves to.

All three will petition CCP, which will exponentially increase the time it takes to resolve other petitions.

Looking at it from outside in, I think CCP would rather have some pilots unhappy, than all pilots unhappy. Somebody logs off in combat and you (the pilot doing the shooting, ganking, griefing, muggging, dueling, whatever) have lost nothing beyond the bragging and epeen stroking you would have engaged in after a kill.

Preventing ships from being destroyed through no fault of the pilot will annoy the crap out of FAR more people.

I'm not saying this is gospel: It's merely my take on the situation. "Simple" fixes often are far from simple....ask any SYSADMIN guy.

Tentacle Girl
Posted - 2007.09.09 08:11:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tentacle Girl on 09/09/2007 08:11:45
Originally by: Depp Knight
Its very annoying if you roam for hours to just see ravens warp out as your warp into their belt and for them to just cloak.

Itís even more annoying if you jump into system to see 2 players to kill and they vanish from local.

Its even more annoying if you come back to that system and they are there again for them to disappear from local again.

Then it just plain bull**** when a hostile jumps into you and all he does is log.

--------

The thing is, if ccp was to nerf this log off to avoid death tactic, those who actually crash and it does happen, they are the ones that get punished. And they will point their finger, blame ccp but really it was all those who abused the system in the first place.

If there was a way to detect a crash and a ctrl q then those who actually crash can be reimburse but then players will just pull their cable out of their modem to work around this.

So in short, if you do this, if you log to avoid death, you are the cancer of the game and donít deserve to be in our world. The problem is, there are a lot of you out there, spreading your disease to others, ruining the good cells of enjoying this game.



Remove local in 0.0, problem sorted. Or even better, keep local, but people don't appear on the local list unless they talk.

Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2007.09.09 08:16:00 - [17]
 

Being able to fly in blob and use numbers to win? Needs to be fixed clearly an exploit to avoid risk.

Being able to teleport aka warp directly onto enemy players and near instantly lock and prevent them from fleeing or teleporting out themselves...clear exploit as well

what is eta on those fixes? hrmm seems being able to log out is the only option for people to have a remote chance of survial from instant wtfbbq pk weenies in eve.

Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2007.09.09 08:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Sorry, CCP, but... this is stupid and I can't see any reasonable excuse to this.
Its in the game and will continue to be in the game because there are times when people really need to do something that requires them to log out of the game and not get wtfpwnd because of an emergency.. The problem is that certain people have a certain lack of ahhhh.. intestinal fortitude to own up to getting pwnd due to their own stupidity and take the pansy way out by exploiting a needed game mechanic.. Having said that I would have no problems with CCP if they allowed people to be scanned and locked down in 0.0/low sec space after to a ctrl-q logoff.. Twisted Evil

TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.09.09 10:30:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 09/09/2007 10:31:48
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Preventing ships from being destroyed through no fault of the pilot will annoy the crap out of FAR more people.


Why don't the players instantly disappear once they logoff? What is the point of PVP timer at all?

e.g random BS fights random BS, 1 disconnect due to a ISP drop, I am reading that the one who disconnected should instantly disappear... you know... why should lose his ship due to error not caused by them?

Why should honest players suffers because of lame logoff "eve is unfair" players?

There is always someone to abuse this.

Yeah, it makes me wonder why the player who was smacking in the previous system suddenly disconnects in the system where he has no aggro... or they "suddenly disconnect" and somehow know exactly how to do the relog/quit fast trick... or they won't log in before the system is checked with an alt.

THIS LOGOFF ISSUE ENCOURAGES BLOBBLING, BECAUSE SOLO-1-2-3 man GANGS CANNOT KILL LOGOFF BSes! e.g pointless to fly around in less than 10man gangs

Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.09 10:44:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 09/09/2007 10:31:48
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Preventing ships from being destroyed through no fault of the pilot will annoy the crap out of FAR more people.


Why don't the players instantly disappear once they logoff? What is the point of PVP timer at all?

e.g random BS fights random BS, 1 disconnect due to a ISP drop, I am reading that the one who disconnected should instantly disappear... you know... why should lose his ship due to error not caused by them?

Why should honest players suffers because of lame logoff "eve is unfair" players?


There is always someone to abuse this.

Yeah, it makes me wonder why the player who was smacking in the previous system suddenly disconnects in the system where he has no aggro... or they "suddenly disconnect" and somehow know exactly how to do the relog/quit fast trick... or they won't log in before the system is checked with an alt.

THIS LOGOFF ISSUE ENCOURAGES BLOBBLING, BECAUSE SOLO-1-2-3 man GANGS CANNOT KILL LOGOFF BSes! e.g pointless to fly around in less than 10man gangs



Ah bad me.

I knew what I wanted to say in my original post but I think it was before my first litre of coffee.

What I meant to say was "allowing ships to be destroyed in circumstances which due to server/connection issues are beyond the pilots control will annoy more people."


Jacques Archambault


ISD YARR
Posted - 2007.09.09 11:45:00 - [21]
 

Thread cleaned.

Please keep your replies polite and flame free.

To the OP: it would help if you could rephrase your starting post to be less confrontational in order to avoid attracting the trolls and flamers.

-Jacques

Major Death
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.09.09 11:50:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Major Death on 09/09/2007 11:52:58
Simple Fix. Change local so that you only appear when you talk (remove the number count as well).
Granted people can use the onboard scanner, but thats a game mechanic and not 'meta gaming'.

And in in some RTS ladder competitions when a 'disconnect' changed from a void game to a loss, it was amazing how many people suddenly stopped having connection problems and machine crashes. Thats not to say everyone who disconnects is a cheater, but it must be difficult for the Devs to track problems when there are bogus reports clouding the issue.

Joskken Inx
the unified
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2007.09.09 15:17:00 - [23]
 

I'm still praying the day cloaking Raven farmer types no longer can hide behind 3 WCS and their cloaks and rat in elbows of space forever.
It's not even frustrating. It's beyond words, trying to "fight" someone who refuses to fight, and yet is reaping all the benefits of life in 0.0-Faction spawns, endless bounties, and all it takes is they have a few WCS in low, one cloak, and an alt to resupply them. There is nothing you can do, even sitting in local cloaked along with them prevents both of you from doing anything.
What's been bothering me is the fewer and fewer times I've actually engaged loggers I'm guessing here but they offline the WCS's to fight back. I thought the stab's penalties were in effect regardless of them being on or offline modules? The other day I engaged a Raven (had to use 4 points as 3 didn't hold him the night before) and he was able to target and fire on me from 30km (with two damps on him as well). If it'd happened in Empire I'd have said he refitted but deep 0.0?
The best part of the story? No 15min aggro. Just "ho ho" in local and peace out, in seconds his ship is off scanner. I spent that entire 15min flying to every crook and cranny trying to find where he went, as I'd shot him. Nothing.
Also, I tried having someone shoot me and log in my alt on same account to see if my aggrod'd ship would instadisappear, that doesn't work. For me at least.

Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.09.09 16:36:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
There are a million simple fixes to correct the problem of people logging off to avoid combat. Why CCP has not fixed this yet is beyond me. A simple change, such as making it so you can not exit the game while engaged in combat would go a long way towards fixing things.


A million? OK give me five.

Pilot "A" warps into a gang of Banjo Playing Gate Campers straight out of Deliverance country. He loses connection due to a faulty hamster at his ISP.

Pilot "B" warps into the same gang of Banjo Playing Gate Campers straight out of Deliverance country. He loses connection because in a sudden burst of frantic activity he heaves his coffee laden and kebab stuffed 200 kilo body off his chair and yanks his network cable out of the router.

Pilot "C" warps into the by now extremely ****ed off gang of Banjo Playing Gate Campers straight out of Deliverance country. He loses connection due to CCP leaving the Server cage open and allowing the Hamsters to escape.

Your example penalises all three pilots the same. All three lose thier ship, though only one deserves to.

All three will petition CCP, which will exponentially increase the time it takes to resolve other petitions.

Looking at it from outside in, I think CCP would rather have some pilots unhappy, than all pilots unhappy. Somebody logs off in combat and you (the pilot doing the shooting, ganking, griefing, muggging, dueling, whatever) have lost nothing beyond the bragging and epeen stroking you would have engaged in after a kill.

Preventing ships from being destroyed through no fault of the pilot will annoy the crap out of FAR more people.

I'm not saying this is gospel: It's merely my take on the situation. "Simple" fixes often are far from simple....ask any SYSADMIN guy.


Game mechanics should not be designed around the few players with poor connections, or the ones with the inability to manage their real life time. If you have to log or you lose you connection and lose your ship too bad. It is a sacrifice that must be made because of the ability for any other design to be easily exploited. Every other MMOG out there will not let you log out if in combat, be it with an NPC or a player. Eve Online, being a primarily PvP based game, should be not only be no different, but it should be more strict in this regard.

Retribution01
Posted - 2007.09.09 17:11:00 - [25]
 

First it is not PVP to jump on to another player and start shooting them up is a MUGGING,and people run from muggings or they die.
AS all you so called PVPers who are really just gankers and muggers,DEAL with IT !!.
AS all of you are so fond of saying to all the players who do not want to get mugged/ganked.
Evil or Very Mad
CCP should have a single system arena where all you guys could go and shoot each other up,
I doubt there would be many who would enter that system.

firepup82
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.09.09 17:26:00 - [26]
 

Question....With the new patch and an interdictor bubble, lets say the ship jumps in and the bubble is up and he hasnt uncloaked. If he logs off what will happen? I havent seen anything on this since patch. Does he warp off? Or is his ship left there for me to ****? YARRRR!!

TheEndofTheWorld
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.09.09 17:33:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: firepup82
Question....With the new patch and an interdictor bubble, lets say the ship jumps in and the bubble is up and he hasnt uncloaked. If he logs off what will happen? I havent seen anything on this since patch. Does he warp off? Or is his ship left there for me to ****? YARRRR!!


appears on overview, doesn't start warp, but disappears in 60s due to not having a pvp timer in that system.

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.09 17:35:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Retribution01
First it is not PVP to jump on to another player and start shooting them up is a MUGGING,and people run from muggings or they die.
AS all you so called PVPers who are really just gankers and muggers,DEAL with IT !!.
AS all of you are so fond of saying to all the players who do not want to get mugged/ganked.
Evil or Very Mad
CCP should have a single system arena where all you guys could go and shoot each other up,
I doubt there would be many who would enter that system.


As a wise man once said "show us on the doll where the bad man touched you"

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2007.09.09 17:36:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Retribution01
First it is not PVP to jump on to another player and start shooting them up is a MUGGING,and people run from muggings or they die.


Running would be ok, and the game is set up so there are perhaps more ways to do so successfully than there would be in your mugging analogy. Logging off however shouldn't give you any more advantage than it would in RL.

Mugger: Waves weapon in victim's direction
Victim: Passes out

Mugger 1, Victim 0. Razz


firepup82
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.09.09 17:39:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: TheEndofTheWorld
Originally by: firepup82
Question....With the new patch and an interdictor bubble, lets say the ship jumps in and the bubble is up and he hasnt uncloaked. If he logs off what will happen? I havent seen anything on this since patch. Does he warp off? Or is his ship left there for me to ****? YARRRR!!


appears on overview, doesn't start warp, but disappears in 60s due to not having a pvp timer in that system.


I'm alittle slow today Laughing So what your saying is that if he indeed doesnt uncloak. He can log. But the ship will sit there for 60 seconds? Thats enough time...lol If you get aggro as soon as he decloaks he is stuck right?


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