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Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 15:17:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Trishan
Easiest way is to get them used to your presence.. rat a bit, don't bother them. Eventually you'll see that they start finishing off the rat before warping off, and that's when you can jump in and kill them.



Works for 1 kill, I already killed 3 of their Ravens, so I don't think they'll fall for it :(

Akat
Slacker Industries
Posted - 2007.09.03 15:52:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 16:04:14
Originally by: Fon Revedhort
Same thing is is Immensea, Tenerifis etc. These macro ratters are all over the place.

Something really has to be done on that.

Either local nerf (say, delayed info refresh) or some new tech2 probes to scan out cloaked afk ships. Yeah, I know it'd been already proposed 1*10^18 times, but anyway...


Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region. We've managed to kill several of them multiple times, but they'll come back no matter how many times you kill them. One in particular lost 3 ravens to us this past weekend. They have also tried to band together on occasion to try to kill us; quite hilarious tbh.

So I could actually care less about being able to probe cloaked ships. What I'd prefer is to allow probing of secure containers and murder their logistical backbone. This would work especially well in regions with few npc stations.

A few of my corpmates and I got lucky and managed to probe some of their safes before they cloaked, only to find they had a cache of secure cans packed to the brim with torpedoes and loot.

Evengard
Minmatar
Solar Dragons
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2007.09.03 20:42:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Darkwolfi
Park a cloaked cov ops in system (preferably alt), make ratter feel comfortable, probe him down, wait till he's busy ratting, uncloak scramble, get friends in, boom.. patience pays..


Useless, they sit cloacked for 15-20 minutes, then logoff.
After some time login, and continue ratting or sit cloacked again. Can you get 20-30 cov-ops for each region ??

Actually this is happening all over the universe. We have same in Insmother, WC, Scalding, Detorid.

These are chineese mostly, they start hunting 21 EVE time, and up to DT.

Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2007.09.03 22:07:00 - [34]
 

Here is a wild idea, stop pretending killing people in ratting ships is PVP, stop wasting your time hunting them, they mean NOTHING to you do NOTHING to you. Why are you so obsessed with NPC ratters? grow up start playing the damn game and stop looking for easy risk free kills.

you know damn well if you want that system to rat in yourself they logged you take over you win.

Seriously what is with all the weenies who feel compelled to hunt people in npc set ups knowing they are sure wins if they can force the fight and then ***** the people do everything possible not to fight? You are in 0.0 go play the damn game battle other corps alliances etc...

Aleksi Maksimovich
Colossus Technologies
P R I M E
Posted - 2007.09.03 23:08:00 - [35]
 

Perhaps no one has thought of this - I have never used them personally but hey here's an idea

why not anchor the biggest most bad mofo bubble in all the belts, leave the system, get like 20-30 ships together, he will log back in and warp to a belt like a good little llama and you can jump in and lay waste.

again not sure of bubble mechanics but i cant see why that wouldnt work.

my two cents.

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.04 00:14:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Here is a wild idea, stop pretending killing people in ratting ships is PVP, stop wasting your time hunting them, they mean NOTHING to you do NOTHING to you. Why are you so obsessed with NPC ratters? grow up start playing the damn game and stop looking for easy risk free kills.

you know damn well if you want that system to rat in yourself they logged you take over you win.

Seriously what is with all the weenies who feel compelled to hunt people in npc set ups knowing they are sure wins if they can force the fight and then ***** the people do everything possible not to fight? You are in 0.0 go play the damn game battle other corps alliances etc...


See heres the problem you've got a Mission bot mentality in 0.0 space.

For those that don't know a mission bot is a player who lives exclusively in high sec and runs missions missions are perpetually run until the player has a State Issue Raven With a full estamel fit.

0.0 NPC'ers are exploiting the riches of the land with little to no risk. You're belief that they should not die because they don't change anything is ridiculous. They could very well be some ones alts funding some one else's PvP or maybe they are building up funds for a corp project. They are out there getting money for a reason not just for the sake of having money.

Until you can get that through your head maybe you'll understand why it is ridiculous that 0.0 ratting is as safe as it is. Are they entitled to their rights to convert torps into isk? No. Am I entitled to kill them? No. But Currently game mechanics makes it significantly more difficult to deal damage to them as opposed to the mechanics that allow them to avoid damage.

All because they aren't fitting warp scramblers doesn't mean they aren't effecting PvP. They are effecting the market, moving supplies, putting isk in some ones pocket.

That is the problem. Not this manifest destiny of the rights of a belt ratter that you guys have carved into skiulls.

Shinithra
Caldari
Posted - 2007.09.04 00:35:00 - [37]
 

The Local chat box should be like Alliance chat box - 5min delay - problem solved Wink

Hyuuga Veralis
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2007.09.04 00:57:00 - [38]
 

Shps should never vanish from space, period.

If CCP would keep in mind the cut-throat aspect of EVE, they would do just that. Unless you dock, or logout inside a POS, you're open season in lowsec/0.0

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.04 01:16:00 - [39]
 

stop trying to claim vast areas of space u can control, either that or get in high sec ratters real players u charge a small fee to use youre space ( oh btw dont shoot those ones) they will rat in youre systems and pay a small fee. ( think bob populating their space) u can PVP and the 0.0 chinesse farmers the renters can keep busy.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.09.04 01:18:00 - [40]
 

Laughinghow to whine on the forums, risk free

make an alt Razz

ok really i just wanted to parody the topic

Necrophorus
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.09.04 01:24:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis
Shps should never vanish from space, period.

If CCP would keep in mind the cut-throat aspect of EVE, they would do just that. Unless you dock, or logout inside a POS, you're open season in lowsec/0.0



or just make the aggression timer standard for every logout. so, your ship will stay in place 15min and then disappear, so that noone can abuse strg+q to avoid being killed.

*me starts dreaming of an eve where there is a risk to die in unsecure times*

*me dreams of ccp fixing risk.vs.reward in eve*

but i think this will stay a dream and there will never be real risk for those who knowshow to use the godgiven gamemechanics to avoid being killed :D

CCCP lalalalalla
Posted - 2007.09.04 01:43:00 - [42]
 

Easiest way to kill a Macro.
Using proxy ips make several noob alt accounts. Leave them in all macrosystems. Go to a belt shoot their wreck. If they log off they are dead because of aggro on wreck. If they cloak, just leave the noob alt there and shoot the wreck every 10 min waiting for him to log.. he will eventually.
Instant win. I dont use proxy ips, but nor do I have 10k alts like burn eden. Dont see whats so hard about it.

etgfrogs
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.04 01:51:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Akat
Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 16:04:14

Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region.


this is NOT a problem for the drone region, why? because the rats there dont have bounties, but the average bs still drops 1-2 mil worth of refinables in a nice 150 m3 package.

solution to the problem of all these isk farmers, kill bounties in 0.0 region then increase the amount of stuff they drop. that way you cant just sit in a system farming constantly, you need to haul your stuff back to somewhere.

i know there will be quite a few complainers about this since the bounties are an easy way of getting money, yea, i know that people wouldn't like seeing a change like this, but it is a sollution to this problem.

Dant Kramble
Posted - 2007.09.04 02:01:00 - [44]
 

Hereís an over-the-top suggestion that Iím not sure addresses the issue, but might stir the pot a bit on it.

Reactive NPC Spawns

Macro ratting is a symptom of limited game design. All game design is limited, so thatís not directly a knock on CCP. For me, the solution to this perceived problem (as well as many others) is in more ambitious game design.

Iíd like to see system-wide escalation of spawns, certainly over the downtime-to-downtime cycle, but maybe even at a larger scale.

It doesnít have to be complicated, simple lists of NPC spawns that have probabilities to spawn based on whats been going on.

PVP is all rock-paper-scissor, why is PVE all one of those in any given system?

Some ratter in a system cycling through belts ought to draw the attention of a mini-Concord scale reaction after a while. Disruptors, the whole bit.

Iím all for PVP, but we ought to let the rats step up a bit as well.

I know, I know, people will simply move to another system and start over. But if you let it accumulate over days, they will run out of systems. Both locals and the macroers will become more concentrated, and the macroers will be driven off.

Maybe killing an NPC dread would reset the original system.

I know about loot and inflation, etc. Just make the payoff/hour worse as the spawn escalation continues.

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2007.09.04 02:37:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/09/2007 02:48:18
Originally by: Konjiro
... or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system.

so that every 3 week old wanabe-Pirate can "sneek" and kill you without warning while you are fighting with Rats?

year, realy great planExclamationRolling EyesEvil or Very Mad
as if it isn't dangoures enough for players with less then 50m SP and no highend Corp as background .... you like to have "free kills" now? should I wait at any gate without weapons fitted so you don't have to warp?

-----------------

There is just one resulution to that macrofarmer problem:
The goverments of that countrys have to set laws against it and handle it like a criminal act.
If the goverments don't reakt close the IPs of that countrys!

Sure, you will lose some normal-players from that countrys but if all developers (every MMOG I know has the same problem Evil or Very Mad) handle it like that this "economy" will die very fast!

The main problem of the Game-Industry is, that there is no big voice where they are all united. As single companies they have no power (maybe Microsoft, IBM or Oracle have it) to push a world-wide-law against this new form of "slave-work".

Agent 452
Caldari
Black Briar Strategic Ops
Posted - 2007.09.04 03:21:00 - [46]
 

now, i'm no veteran, but this is so damn simple it just might work...

What if cloaked ships didn't show up in local?

recons could actually recon, wihtout alreting everyone to their presence. would allow a recon to manually find players, although if he wants to actively run scans, he has to alert the system to his presence. This also is balanced by allowing the ratters to dissapear fro local when they cloak, so that people aren't sure if you've logged or not.

In short, if you wanted to do a sneaky sneaky scout, you need to actually use a sneaky ship. If you want to jump in in a BS with full ganker setup, they might see you coming. :O

From an RP perspective, you aren't registering yourself on the local public comms channel when you're running silent and stealthed - big supprise. Maybe even make it impossible to chat in local while cloacked (although you could still look at other players and read.)

thoughts?

Verite Rendition
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2007.09.04 04:15:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: etgfrogs
Originally by: Akat
Edited by: Akat on 03/09/2007 16:04:14

Its pretty bad in any 0.0 region.


this is NOT a problem for the drone region, why? because the rats there dont have bounties, but the average bs still drops 1-2 mil worth of refinables in a nice 150 m3 package.

solution to the problem of all these isk farmers, kill bounties in 0.0 region then increase the amount of stuff they drop. that way you cant just sit in a system farming constantly, you need to haul your stuff back to somewhere.

i know there will be quite a few complainers about this since the bounties are an easy way of getting money, yea, i know that people wouldn't like seeing a change like this, but it is a sollution to this problem.
They already have the logistics to haul stuff, albeit not in large quantities. The friend of the Raven is the Badger, you'll find them all over 0.0

JonnyWarhawk
The Scope
Posted - 2007.09.04 04:24:00 - [48]
 

I've noticed this as well. We have a few chinese isk farmers who constantly farm in Tribute and it is impossible to stop them. Sigh.

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.04 04:30:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Jack Jombardo
Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 04/09/2007 02:48:18
Originally by: Konjiro
... or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system.

so that every 3 week old wanabe-Pirate can "sneek" and kill you without warning while you are fighting with Rats?

year, realy great planExclamationRolling EyesEvil or Very Mad
as if it isn't dangoures enough for players with less then 50m SP and no highend Corp as background .... you like to have "free kills" now? should I wait at any gate without weapons fitted so you don't have to warp?



What the hell are you talking about. First off if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. 0.0 is supposed to be the most dangerous place there is. At the moment all you have to do is make it past the entry and your home free.

Why are you entitled to massive isk potential with no risk?

Why is it not fair for you to lose a ship because you were I'll prepared?

From your post it seems that you rat with no weapons fitted how do you do that!?

Local is for talking not cloaking.

There is supposed to be risk outside of .5 but currently local reduces that greatly.

I am not entitled to kill you but there had better be a way for me to do so that doesn't involve meta gaming and log on traps. The isk you are farming is funding some ones pvp one way or another there is no reason you are to be exempt all because you are the one converting torps into cash.

Trying to get a government to solve this is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard do you know HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET THINGS DONE IN A GOVERNMENT!?.

You want risk free isk in a high risk zone and there is no way in hell I'm going to support that.

Why should you get an alarm that alerts you of danger instantaneously!?

Don't give me a bs rp reason either I want facts!


Takarina
Perkone
Posted - 2007.09.04 04:48:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: CCCP lalalalalla
Go to a belt shoot their wreck. If they log off they are dead because of aggro on wreck.


uh they fixed that awhile ago Rolling Eyes

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.09.04 05:27:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis
Shps should never vanish from space, period.

If CCP would keep in mind the cut-throat aspect of EVE, they would do just that. Unless you dock, or logout inside a POS, you're open season in lowsec/0.0


Gee, doesn't that just ruin the day of those who don't/can't put POSes up, even those who have gone to great lengths to avoid having to run the entry point every time (i.e. safespot networks, ammo caches, etc)

If I could stay on 23/7 to keep my cloak going ... no, it would still be unrealistic. I still have to force my way in, I still have to get setup to survive, I still have to be ready to run and hide at the drop of a hat, and I still have a real life to manage. Why the hell should 0.0 be sealed off to me completely so you can get in a couple easy ganks?

I still have plenty of risk. Nowhere to repair hull, nowhere to really call home, one interceptor can do unkind things to me with his followup gang, waiting for a week for the safe time to get out of 0.0 to align with when I could play Eve ... no, my gameplay isn't hindered at ALL by the nature of the space ...

Adapt and overcome, Hyuuga, or whatever your main's name is. I did, and I made my isk and somehow got out without dying.

DeMundus
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2007.09.04 05:41:00 - [52]
 

Just put Rats in that scramble... and lots more of them! It is silly... I have stayed in low sec to hunt because of this... every1 and thier mom log off when a stranger enters local in 0.0...

Lougra
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.04 05:54:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. Crying or Very sad


No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.


Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?

At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap

at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.

Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE


Who talked about the ability to sitting solo in 0.0? im talking for a specific situation.
In mining community it is known that barges (retriever covetors) cannot tank at all. The only 'protection' that miners has in 0.0 better than any gang is the local.
But of course is known, everyone who express an opinion for combat, is 100% sure that opinion is based on how they want to destroy other's ships without caring about balance at all.



Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.04 05:59:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. Crying or Very sad


No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.


Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?

At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap

at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.

Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE


Who talked about the ability to sitting solo in 0.0? im talking for a specific situation.
In mining community it is known that barges (retriever covetors) cannot tank at all. The only 'protection' that miners has in 0.0 better than any gang is the local.
But of course is known, everyone who express an opinion for combat, is 100% sure that opinion is based on how they want to destroy other's ships without caring about balance at all.





Exhumers were designed for this space I suggest you use them.

What you are doing is taking your merlin into a lvl 4 mission in theory it can be done with some finesse but there are better ways to do this.

You have a scanner use it stay aligned to warp out

I fail to see what the problem is

Bring escorts with ECM or damps

if you can not field the tools to defend yourself then do not complain about your masochism that you seem to be flaunting in this post

Mirirar
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
Posted - 2007.09.04 06:02:00 - [55]
 

1) make non-covert ops cloaks require fuel
2) make aggression against rats count towards a pvp logout timer.

Of course, that would mean farmers close accounts.

Lougra
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.04 06:32:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. Crying or Very sad


No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.


Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?

At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap

at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.

Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE


Who talked about the ability to sitting solo in 0.0? im talking for a specific situation.
In mining community it is known that barges (retriever covetors) cannot tank at all. The only 'protection' that miners has in 0.0 better than any gang is the local.
But of course is known, everyone who express an opinion for combat, is 100% sure that opinion is based on how they want to destroy other's ships without caring about balance at all.





Exhumers were designed for this space I suggest you use them.

What you are doing is taking your merlin into a lvl 4 mission in theory it can be done with some finesse but there are better ways to do this.

You have a scanner use it stay aligned to warp out

I fail to see what the problem is

Bring escorts with ECM or damps

if you can not field the tools to defend yourself then do not complain about your masochism that you seem to be flaunting in this post


You expecting me to invest 200+m in t2 ship and equipment at same time where a t1 bc can destroy my hulk easily?
You expecting me to have my corp mates in alert, gamping gates, deplying bubbles to protect me, and at same time my covetor has 0 tank ability? Where is the effort from YOUR side when you can destroy a fitted barge of 40+m only by using a cheap frigate?

It seems that trying to show a point to a guy which has a pathetic level of intelligence is a masochism.

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.04 09:43:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Tortun Nahme
Laughinghow to whine on the forums, risk free

make an alt Razz

ok really i just wanted to parody the topic


Heh, good one. Paul is obviously my alt. I considered posting with my main, but decided against it as I saw no need to alert any more of them to my hunting. Incidently, I got 2 more of those Raven's since the topic started.

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.04 13:57:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Lougra

You expecting me to invest 200+m in t2 ship and equipment at same time where a t1 bc can destroy my hulk easily?
You expecting me to have my corp mates in alert, gamping gates, deplying bubbles to protect me, and at same time my covetor has 0 tank ability? Where is the effort from YOUR side when you can destroy a fitted barge of 40+m only by using a cheap frigate?

It seems that trying to show a point to a guy which has a pathetic level of intelligence is a masochism.


The effort on my side would be 1 getting down there avoid the "Intel" channel scouts

2.Finding You

3. Scanning your position down

4. Warping to that position

Effort steps 3 and 4 possibly even step 2 are circumvented by local.

Now if a t1 BC makes it past the entry point no prob then some ones doing something wrong.

But hey since we like to throw isk as justification.

I am flying a jaguar with 3 tobias gyro stabilizers fitted no weapons no propulsion jamming equipment. According to your theory of isk justifies lack of risk I should be able to instapop you and every one in my path by stating that I have 3 faction gyro's fitted.

If you want that high end Ore you should work for it not excercise this manifest destiny or your right as a miner Rolling Eyes

Now I know what your thinking "BUT YOU STUPID GANKERS DO NO WORK" and a lot of the carebear (people that consider pvp on par with ****) crowd likes to throw that around but honestly
Try piracy outside of a gate and its difficulty increases quite a bit. As opposed to oh I don't know

lock
Approach
Activate Strip miners
Haul

but hey thats just me

Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.04 14:04:00 - [59]
 

How about a cov-ops/force recon to scram?

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.04 14:08:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
How about a cov-ops/force recon to scram?


1. Enter Local
2. Warp belt to scan
2.5. Target logs or cloaks
3. Well whats on TV


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