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Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 09:28:00 - [1]
 

I thought this to be a bug, but was told by the bug-hunters that is was an intended game feature. So I thought I'd share it with you all.

Over the past few weeks, Pure Blind have been infested with Ravens that rat 23/7, 7 days a week. Whenever someone enters local they will log off within 15-30 seconds. Now we all know who these people are, but thats not the discussion here. The problem I want to discuss is how they are impossible to kill because of this intended game feature.

(All the following tips have been tested thoroughly, bug-reported and petitioned, all to be told that it is intened game features.)

So, basically, to rat in 0.0, risk free. You'll get a ratting ship into 0.0 (not that hard with a scout and stabs). Once in your desired system, find a few moons several AU apart and create bookmarks for them. Start ratting. Once someone enters system, immediately start aligning to one of these moons. If someone comes into belt (or on scan), initiate warp and log off as soon as it enters warp.

What will happen is the following. Your ship will stop in mid-warp, sit there for around a minute, then disappear. Now, we all know that your ship can be probed in that minute, but it really doesn't matter. If they manage to find you and even if they manage to warp to you and put aggression on you, don't worry. When you log back in, you will not appear where they probed you down, you will appear at the spot you warped to, which they have no way of knowing. If they managed put aggression on you, don't worry, you won't be aggressed as they put it on you after you logged, and therefore doesn't count. Even if they guess where you'll appear when entering game again, all you got to do is hit scan as fast as possible, if you see a ship, log immediately, you'll never appear where they are waiting for you.

So, get to 0.0, start ratting, make ISK, **** of the locals and live a happy risk free EVE-life. Thank you CCP!

tiewan
Posted - 2007.09.03 09:30:00 - [2]
 

Which combination of boosters is needed to enable me to rat 23/7?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2007.09.03 09:44:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: tiewan
Which combination of boosters is needed to enable me to rat 23/7?

The "power of two" booster, I guess Twisted Evil

Agent Nuke
The Maverick Navy
Posted - 2007.09.03 09:46:00 - [4]
 

I think its the "Sweat Shop" booster. I hear its been around a fair while

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.03 10:03:00 - [5]
 

is this bad? I don't get it. logging out if your not in combat is no problem.

funny thing though, I keep reading that people want to nerf the prototype 1 an 2 cloaks too. So if your ratting in 0.0 and you can't cloak, and can't goto safespot and log, then what should you be doing cycling ss for an hour?

Besides, that same "bug" if done in a fleet fight gone wrong, or a very laggy 0.0 battle will send you to a POS thats been taken down and is now a hostile POS or ss.

Konjiro
RED SQUAD
Posted - 2007.09.03 10:56:00 - [6]
 

Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. Crying or Very sad

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:08:00 - [7]
 

Same thing is is Immensea, Tenerifis etc. These macro ratters are all over the place.

Something really has to be done on that.

Either local nerf (say, delayed info refresh) or some new tech2 probes to scan out cloaked afk ships. Yeah, I know it'd been already proposed 1*10^18 times, but anyway...

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:16:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rorin Cutter
is this bad? I don't get it. logging out if your not in combat is no problem.

funny thing though, I keep reading that people want to nerf the prototype 1 an 2 cloaks too. So if your ratting in 0.0 and you can't cloak, and can't goto safespot and log, then what should you be doing cycling ss for an hour?

Besides, that same "bug" if done in a fleet fight gone wrong, or a very laggy 0.0 battle will send you to a POS thats been taken down and is now a hostile POS or ss.


I don't have a problem with people not wanting to fight. Not everyone finds PVP fun so why should they engage in it? But 0.0 is classified as lawless, the rewards are higher than most places, because there is risk involved. I'm not saying it should be 'easy' in any way to get these guys, but when it's impossible I'm against it.

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:17:00 - [9]
 

My own Idea:
(not 100% perfect, but maybe might get improved by someone....)

Have Logoff disappearance affected by sov, but not in the usual way it is suggested.

Example:
If a raiding group attacking BoB in Delve has Sov ANYWHERE, then if they log off in BoB sov space, they log off normally.

But if a Ratter who's Corp/alliance has no sov anywhere logs off in space where an Alliance has sov, then members of that alliance get (Insert MASSIVE bonuses here) to scan him down and kill him.

The problem with this idea is that honest pvpers in Corps that have no sov would be at added risk in sov space. But it would sure screw the ratters.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:25:00 - [10]
 

make fitting a raven with a cloak take longer than 22 days

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:28:00 - [11]
 

I don't think the system need to be tweaked that much. I would be happy if they simply had an aggression timer next time they logged in, if you manged to aggress them before they disappear. That would mean being near them when they logoff, ability to scan, warp and lock in less than a minute and the dedication to wait for them to log back in.

I'm not looking for a way to kill every single person in 0.0, I'm suggesting that with dedication and skill it should be at least possible even if hard.

Tradari
Gallente
LUSH Industrys
The Grundle Kings
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:29:00 - [12]
 

Theres a flaw in this first post, the method is fine right until the ponit you quoted align and IF somone enters your belt u warp off.

What normally happend though is a covert/recon will hunt you down and fast with the right probes warp right on top of you and scrwm u wheile there m8's jump the gate and hit you hard so its not fool proof

Yours
Tradari

Konjiro
RED SQUAD
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:34:00 - [13]
 

The cloak isn't rly a problem for me ( especially after the cloaking nerf ), I have a proble with this log off tactic for example 2 days a ago a friend of mine caught our local macro ratter at the gate. The problem was that this macro guy logged off while he was jumping so he just disappeard after minute, regardless if you disrupt or bubble them they just disappear damn Evil or Very Mad.

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:37:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Paul French on 03/09/2007 11:41:41
Edited by: Paul French on 03/09/2007 11:39:57
Originally by: Tradari
Theres a flaw in this first post, the method is fine right until the ponit you quoted align and IF somone enters your belt u warp off.

What normally happend though is a covert/recon will hunt you down and fast with the right probes warp right on top of you and scrwm u wheile there m8's jump the gate and hit you hard so its not fool proof

Yours
Tradari



I'm not sure if you fly Cov-ops yourself, but Cov-ops has a targetting delay of minimum 5 seconds (brought down to 2.5 seconds by Cloaking V), which gives you plenty of time to warp out if you are hovering over 'warp to'. You may also scan for scan probes, just turn yout overview settings off, sort by name, and they'll show up nicely under 'Scanner Probe'.

Cloaking:
Skill at using Cloaking devices. 10% per level reduction in targeting delay after uncloaking per skill level. Can not be trained on Trial Accounts.

EDIT: I didn't say IF, I said OR :)
Sorry, I did say IF .. my mistake.

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:38:00 - [15]
 

If you had logout in the belt you would catch them no?

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:43:00 - [16]
 

safespot 100 au away works good for me YARRRR!!

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:44:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Blind Man
safespot 100 au away works good for me YARRRR!!


Not when I scan you with Observator Probes Twisted Evil

Darkwolfi
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:48:00 - [18]
 

Park a cloaked cov ops in system (preferably alt), make ratter feel comfortable, probe him down, wait till he's busy ratting, uncloak scramble, get friends in, boom.. patience pays..

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 11:54:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Darkwolfi
Park a cloaked cov ops in system (preferably alt), make ratter feel comfortable, probe him down, wait till he's busy ratting, uncloak scramble, get friends in, boom.. patience pays..


I agree, that would, and has, worked. Problem is it requires sloppyness from the ratter, which they, when you've killed them a few times, get cured of.

Lougra
Gallente
Posted - 2007.09.03 12:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. Crying or Very sad


No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.

N'irrti
Amarr
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.09.03 12:16:00 - [21]
 

I got one of them by just sitting there in local pretending to be one of those peacefull carebears from lala wonderland who just wants to make some quick iskies. Chatted with them after a while, left some rat wrecks in the belts and did everything to make my blasterthron look like the best friend a ratter could get. After a while (about 2-3h and several logoffskis loginskis) the 3 farmers accepted me as part of their little carebear universe they didn't log off anymore and started farming again.

End of Story: I anchored a small bubble in one of the belts, waited, raven warps right into the bubble, dead raven. Had some shiny Faction Stuff in his cargo Laughing

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 12:29:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: N'irrti
I got one of them by just sitting there in local pretending to be one of those peacefull carebears from lala wonderland who just wants to make some quick iskies. Chatted with them after a while, left some rat wrecks in the belts and did everything to make my blasterthron look like the best friend a ratter could get. After a while (about 2-3h and several logoffskis loginskis) the 3 farmers accepted me as part of their little carebear universe they didn't log off anymore and started farming again.

End of Story: I anchored a small bubble in one of the belts, waited, raven warps right into the bubble, dead raven. Had some shiny Faction Stuff in his cargo Laughing


Very nice, I like when people put in the dedication to take out others, I've taken out a few them myself. Right now though, we have 10 systems in Pure Blind with these guys, and since I've put in A LOT of dedication (play time) to hunt them down, they now who I am. Let me stress that people should be able to get away, I'm not for the local nerf as it would just benefit people killing other people and nothing else. I believe you should be able to avoid getting killed if you put some dedication to it.

Examples:

1) You are out ratting, someone enters local; you log. Takes 0 dedication, 0 skill.
2) You are out ratting, someone enters local, you warp to a safespot, watch for probes continously, shifting spots if probes are in the air. Takes average dedication, 0 skill.
3)You are out ratting, someone enters local, you warp to different planets, continously making new mid-safes along to way, shifting to warp between these while still making new ones. High dedication, chance of getting caught is virtually 0.

Now, for no. 3, I'm all for that I can't kill this guy. He put's a lot of effort into it and should be rewarded for that.
For no. 2, I'd drop a Spook Probe outside his scan range and then kill him, takes a bit of skill and dedication on my part.
For no. 1, what can I say. They don't put any effort into getting away, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. This is the one that ****es me of.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.09.03 12:37:00 - [23]
 

Basically, the Ravens are most often seen ships out of low-sec. High-sec is full of them. 0.0 is full of them Laughing

Rorin Cutter
Caldari
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.09.03 13:09:00 - [24]
 

Well sorry but I am not one for making it any easier for people who control space to hunt down and take out the "micro ratters", because most of the time they are normal people who are ratting to get enough money for there GTC or next ship. Even better they are spying on your system and cloaked to make you nervous!

The wonderful thing in this game is that it is unfair to everyone. Cool

What I would do is accept local being changed to a chat only window, in other words people could still use there smack lvl5 skills, but you could not see how many are in local or when they come in or leave. But then we will need a new type of drone or better yet ship mod. That everyone could use. It could work like radar, say 5au or so, that alerts you when a neut. / red is in range. Sort of like a “Danger Will Robinson, Danger” type thing.

Gaia Thorn
The Reformed
Bondage Patrol
Posted - 2007.09.03 13:33:00 - [25]
 

Ok here's my view on things.

If you engage a rat u get a 2 minute aggro timer ( confirmed by devs )
Easiest thing to do is jump in a cov ops drop a probe, jump out.
Wait for the a hole to decloak and begin ratting again.

Jump in see him either logoff or try and cloak.
Probe him out take a pot shot at him which will reset the timer according to DEV's giving u 15 minutes to take him down.
And once u pop the ship the pod also get 15 minutes aggro.

NeoThermic
Viziam
Posted - 2007.09.03 13:51:00 - [26]
 

Alternatively, at a push it is possible to probe out and destroy a ship in that 1 minute before it vanishes.

Trishan
Green Men Incorporated
Posted - 2007.09.03 14:26:00 - [27]
 

Easiest way is to get them used to your presence.. rat a bit, don't bother them. Eventually you'll see that they start finishing off the rat before warping off, and that's when you can jump in and kill them.

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.03 14:38:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Lougra
Originally by: Konjiro
Oh thats so true Paul. I know exactly what you mean. I have seen this several times its so annoying. What we rly need in 0.0 space is a agression timer or that player dont appear in local for 1 min or so after they enterd system. Btw gamemechanics sux at this point there is rly know way to catch this ratters. Crying or Very sad


No way. That has a horrible affect to every miner in 0.0 space.
Combined with very slow ships and 0 tank ability (covetor) death is 100%.


Should that not be the price to pay for solo mining?

At the current state of things going in 0.0 looking for any one who may be sitting around converting torpedos into isk is a matter best resolved with a log on trap

at the moment this is an accurate portrayal of local.

Its a chat box not a damn AWOOOOGA AWOOOGA PIRATES IN SYSTEM! WARP AWAY AND ACTIVATE CLOAK GO TO INTEL CHANNEL AND FORM UP DEATH BLOB TYPE X FOR GANG INVITE

Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
Posted - 2007.09.03 14:41:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Sergeant Spot
My own Idea:
(not 100% perfect, but maybe might get improved by someone....)

Have Logoff disappearance affected by sov, but not in the usual way it is suggested.

Example:
If a raiding group attacking BoB in Delve has Sov ANYWHERE, then if they log off in BoB sov space, they log off normally.

But if a Ratter who's Corp/alliance has no sov anywhere logs off in space where an Alliance has sov, then members of that alliance get (Insert MASSIVE bonuses here) to scan him down and kill him.

The problem with this idea is that honest pvpers in Corps that have no sov would be at added risk in sov space. But it would sure screw the ratters.



I would support a timer being put on players logging out on non sovereign systems to prevent log off tactics. The Same goes for gates 3min timer if you "conveniently" log out once you click jump.

Paul French
Posted - 2007.09.03 15:16:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Gaia Thorn
Ok here's my view on things.

...

Jump in see him either logoff ... Probe him out take a pot shot at him which will reset the timer according to DEV's giving u 15 minutes to take him down.
And once u pop the ship the pod also get 15 minutes aggro.


Just tried that, he disappeared after about 15 seconds, which is not enough to take out a Raven :(


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