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blankseplocked Change of Policy in Order?
 
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Waxau
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2007.09.02 02:12:00 - [1]
 

Yo all - Not a whine, just a suggestion :)

The other week i lost a cerb to a desync. Was gang warped, and midwarp, was blown to smidgens by an abaddon, who then smacktalked me in Russian >.< Can take a loss, np. But we all know that we cant help desyncs, and nor can ccp at this stage, due to resources, or even general coding, or whatever.

However it does tick me off, when i cant get any reimbursement due to lack of logs. Such things are neither avoidable, nor intensional by either party, and need to be reevaluated.

So - In the spirit of finding solutions, does anyone have any possibly changes to reimbursement policy, which will allow desyncs to be either recognised, or at the very least, be able to be reimbursed, without screwing up the entire integrity of legit claims?

Im not a computer god, so no clue sadly >.<

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.02 02:29:00 - [2]
 

If anyone can think of one, that works, I will personally give them a whole 100 ISK.

Kal Shakai
Appetite 4 Destruction
Posted - 2007.09.02 02:32:00 - [3]
 

I suspect if they could log it they could fix it. My understanding is that they haven't a clue as to the cause.

Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Umbra Synergy
Posted - 2007.09.02 03:17:00 - [4]
 

I actually 100% agree with the topic

no more reimbusements PERIOD

Stratharn
Posted - 2007.09.02 04:13:00 - [5]
 

My connection has been unavoidably dodgy of late... it's frustrating when you're mid mission and your connection goes. When playing some mindless popcorn game like WoW it doesn't matter so much, as the loss is negligible... but in Eve, it can really hurt.

I know that there's the whole thing about not flying what you can't afford to replace, but if you lose three things you can afford to replace, suddenly you're looking a lot poorer.

Subsequently... I'd hate to see a "no reimbursement" policy. It's irritating, slow, and often you get a "Can't help", but I'd have had a much harder time of it without getting my battleships back periodically due to a desync/discon.

Stratharn
http://www.mordorbbs.com/

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.09.02 04:18:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 02/09/2007 04:32:25
Sadly I cannot think of a solution.

Think about it.

Your PC is having issues communicating with the server. In order to be reimbursed your PC would need to transmit even MORE data to the server. See the Catch-22 here?

Sucks to be sure. Not sure there is a viable solution.

JadalofOblivion
Amarr
PURE Legion
death from above..
Posted - 2007.09.02 05:12:00 - [7]
 

No what sucks is, it is their game and they dont know what the hell is wrong with it.

grade "A" weaksauce

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.09.02 05:25:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 02/09/2007 05:26:06
Originally by: JadalofOblivion
No what sucks is, it is their game and they dont know what the hell is wrong with it.

grade "A" weaksauce


WTS A clue.

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 02/09/2007 04:32:25
Sadly I cannot think of a solution.

Think about it.

Your PC is having issues communicating with the server. In order to be reimbursed your PC would need to transmit even MORE data to the server. See the Catch-22 here?

Sucks to be sure. Not sure there is a viable solution.


The much bigger problem is:

Your client thinks it is fine. The server thinks it is fine. How do you prove at all that when both sides thing nothing is wrong?

JadalofOblivion
Amarr
PURE Legion
death from above..
Posted - 2007.09.02 05:39:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 02/09/2007 05:26:06
Originally by: JadalofOblivion
No what sucks is, it is their game and they dont know what the hell is wrong with it.

grade "A" weaksauce


WTS A clue.

I dont need a clue toolbag. I know there is a problem. CCP knows there is a problem. They just dont know how to solve it.

Save your isk and help yourself out.

Slate Fistcrunch
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.09.02 05:53:00 - [10]
 

They have stated before that logging on TQ was reduced in the past to reduce the size of the logs. This was a practical decision.
They have also stated before that for some instances of desync the server suffered poorly when all of the clients sent a "full state refresh" request to the server.
They have changed their reimbursement policy in the past from a "if it's a fault on our end, we'll help you out" to a "unless the server crashes, we will not reimburse you." This is obviously a practical decision to combat the enormous rise in manpower hours to go through reimbursement petitions.

In short, the reasons you aren't getting your ships back these days are practical, not technical.
It's a new game now, learn to live with the new rules.

Ki Tarra
Ki Tech Industries
Posted - 2007.09.02 06:00:00 - [11]
 

I would need to know more about how their engine is implemented to offer more detailed suggestions, but just a blind shot in the dark I would think that some sort of mutual acknowlegdement between the client and server is in order for all session changes.

A quick obsveration is that every session/grid change involves a short time where you are invulnerable. You cannot be shot once you're in warp. You arrive into a system cloaked. You are untouchable until you move after undocking.

Basicly whenever you warp/jump/undock/dock the server would need confirmation from the client before making your ship vulnerable and the client would not take away your interface for issuing commands until it had received confirmation from the server that your ship was invulnerable.

The acknowledgement would be sent by the client just after it has loaded the information that it needs to show the local grid, but just before it actually displays this to the user so that people cannot bail out because of what they see while they are invulnerable.

Basicly when you warp the client will not show that you have entered warp until the server has confirmed that you have entered warp. At the destination, the server will not pull you out of warp until the client confirms that it has loaded the grid.

On the one hand, if the client crashes due to overload while bringing up the grid, the player will be invulnerable, as he will not come out of warp until he reconnects.

On the other, a player could not exploit this to bail out on a trap because they will not see the trap in time to retain invulnerablity.

A major downside of this option is that when a gang warps into a busy grid, they might all arrive at different times as each client would take a different amount of time to load the grid. However, that would problably still be better than having everyone arrive at the same time, but unable to do anything for some random amount of time while they wait for the grid to load.

This would also protect against the warp away deaths, as the client will not show that you are in warp until the server has confirmed that you are infact in warp. If there is a desync on warp out, you will still be able to see yourself fighting, instead of thinking that you are docked while your armour is melting.

The primary change to game mechanics this would bring is that if someone intentionally disconnects while in mid-warp, they would be untouchable, regardless of agression timers, until they reconnected. This exploit could be countered, if it were diffucult to tell exactly when the hand shake was completed when warping to empty grids when it doesn't take long for the client to load the grid. In that case if they warp to a safe spot and disconnect mid warp, they are pretty certain to arrive at their destination even if they disconnect mid-warp.

Even if invulnerablity is not granted based on the handshake system, if it were added for logging purposes it could still be very helpful. For example, GM's could then see if a player jumped into a system and crashed before or after the grid loaded. If they crashed before the grid loaded a reimbursement could be warranted, if they crashed after the grid loaded, then no such luck. In any case the client should not show that they have jumped to the next system until after the server says that the jump has been initiated.

From what I can guess, the server logs provide very little information about what the client is doing aside from the commands that the client sends.

Moridin920
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.09.02 08:00:00 - [12]
 

I think it's terrible he smacked you in Russian. That's just... I don't even know. I was going to say insulting (more so than regular smack), but on the other hand if it were me I'd make him look like a tool with one line: "I don't speak Russian so you effectively smack talked no one."


 

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