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blankseplocked SPECULATE: What effect would removing local have to gameplay?
 
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Posted - 2007.08.17 01:44:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 17/08/2007 01:46:53

Originally by: RtoZ
This thread is simplistic in that it only asks what would happen if local was removed. There are other options to local than a simple removal. It could be kept in systems with high sovergnity levels, it could be kept in station systems, it could be a "talk to be seen" system. It could be done along with map statistics so that people are effectively hidded in 0.0. It could be done with stealth modules that people fit so that the transponders (or whatever) on their ships are inactive and they cannot use or be seen in local and map stats untill they dock... And probably also a million other ideas.

My problem with the current system, allthough tbh I use local as much as anyone when in lowsec, is that people are just too visible, which is fine for an alliance in alliance space or for a blob, but completely sucks for all small gang and individual endeavours. And imo that is what is wrong with eve 0.0 gameplay, it is too focused on the big guys, which leaves alliance space underexplored.

Imagine your average carrier or upcoming ORE cap ship pilot. The only way he can make use of those ships in 0.0, apart from station to station jumping in the carrier, is with massive protection, because whenever he moves the game mechanics put a massive beacon him telling EVERYONE in the game where he is. That is just plain wrong, its too much intel and makes the game too predictable, while putting ALL the risk in the carebear side.

I personally disagree with the obvious ccp game design bias to large corporations and alliances. Imo it adds to the blob, it destroys the very fun small gang 0.0 pvp, and it makes 0.0 a race for cluster domination, all bad things for gameplay. What is needed is a feeling that space is actually space, that its big and you can get lost in it. Atm eve feels like a labyrinth, and thats whats wrong with the local mechanics. That said, they work well for highsec, where I would leave them untouched, and they work well for systems with high soverignity levels in 0.0, where I would leave them untouched too. Where they do now work is in the empty ratting and mining and complex running and small outpost systems, where people want to keep a low profile but the game does not let them.


This man has it spot on. Good Post - It deserves a full quoting and 4 gold stars! Wink

**** Edit: Found some gold Wink

Tanksmann
Posted - 2007.08.17 02:11:00 - [92]
 

How about the Constellation channel replaces local? You still know when enemies are nearby but you don't know EXACTLY where they are, and they don't know EXACTLY where you are.




Ishmael Hansen
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2007.08.17 02:13:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 17/08/2007 02:17:21
No local would nerf pirates after they realize that the last 10 ships they attacked were bait.

Would suck for small 0.0 roaming gangs cos scanning every system for hostiles would be soooo boring. And even if they find any ships 50% chance they would be blue.

0.0 carebears and macroers would have to hit scanner every 10 sec.

Gate camps would be deadlier

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.08.17 03:04:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Elmicker on 17/08/2007 03:07:19
Originally by: Tanksmann
How about the Constellation channel replaces local? You still know when enemies are nearby but you don't know EXACTLY where they are, and they don't know EXACTLY where you are.


"Captain, there's a massive blob headed for our constellation!"
"where?"
"We don't know, sir!"

Deepsafe + no local = hidden fleet.

No matter which way you put it and no matter what you replace it with, removing local means one thing. More timesinks.

This is bad.

Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
Posted - 2007.08.17 03:41:00 - [95]
 

Possibly there would be even more alts and people would have mandatory trial accounts set up with pilots and clones sitting at the select spots only to run wave after wave of recon alts to whatever location till they've gotten all the intel they need or desynced trying.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.08.17 11:54:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Wendat Huron
Possibly there would be even more alts and people would have mandatory trial accounts set up with pilots and clones sitting at the select spots only to run wave after wave of recon alts to whatever location till they've gotten all the intel they need or desynced trying.
and those who can already dont do that Rolling Eyes

Fester Addams
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.08.19 06:00:00 - [97]
 

I dont mind people arguing for the removal or downgrading of local as an information outlet.

Just please, please, PLEASE!
Stop trying to argue it as a method of making it harder for pirates and it helping the non pirates, it would not have that effect.

Removal of local would not harm piracy, that is the one reason I support a change of local as it would change the balance of piracy so that hunting piracy would become a more viable gameplay as oposed to gate/station camping.

2 or 3 times a week it seems one of thise threads pops upp and since some people consider themselves sly they sit down and try to make the argument from the carebears point of view so as to give the impression to CCP that both sides want it. Well they dont, local is great for non pirates.
There is infact no drawback to it as it works now, sure a pirate can spot that there are x potential targets in a system however he cant get anything else from it.

Are they in a station afk, just passing through, sightseeing, sitting in deep space in a shuttle taunting them or possibly in a belt mining. The pirate cant make the distinction from local and thus still has to spend time tracking them down.

The victim on the other hand only needs to know a known pirate has entered the system to know there is danger. Remove local and they will have to set upp tedious and anoying measures to gather the same intel.

Thus, please, stop trying to make it as if it would be good for the non pirate, make the argument from your real standpoint, its a decent one if presented correctly (ie not the common "I want more gank targets" whine).

asgghsfdgsgsg
Posted - 2007.08.31 11:17:00 - [98]
 

What effect would having ship and fit display for everyone who is in the same system?

Falbala
Gallente
Ishtar's Destiny
Posted - 2007.08.31 11:20:00 - [99]
 

I've posted about this a long time ago, for different reasons though, but someone replied that it would be socially wrong, which is true.

LvxOccvlta
Posted - 2007.08.31 11:28:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: LvxOccvlta on 31/08/2007 11:30:16
Removing local would make 0.0 scary, because 0.0 is meant to be scary.

There is no Concord.

On the subject of removing local and scouting for gatecamps...
I would be apprehensive about forming a gatecamp in the first place. Unless I was confident that my gang was big enough, I would otherwise be too afraid of a much larger, angrier gang barreling my down my way. Removing local would probably decrease the amount of gatecamps there are now.

And as someone said, removing local works for and against hunters and the prey.

Imagine a benefit it would bring to commerce in 0.0: Freighters would not be so easily targeted and followed-- so removing local would give an advantage in this regard to carebears who want to bring commerce to 0.0. To say that removing local would cause 0.0 economy to grind to a screeching halt is foolish talk.

Man I get excited just thinking about it: eve would finally be the game it's advertised to be.

As I mentioned in the other thread-- there was a way to remove local from your chat box, and thus not appearing in local. It was considered an exploit so CCP changed it :(

Taurequis
Waylander 01
Posted - 2007.08.31 11:31:00 - [101]
 

Hi,

I'm up for the change of removing local in 0.0. It would totally change the game for the better in my mind.

But some things would have to be tweaked to make it still "fun" for many smaller groups.

1. Buff scanning.
2. Add a system scanning module for industrial class ships say (big size) allowing them to monitor the system for traffic while loading (but not warp to things).
3. Add the number of pilots in system information to the minimap that you could have open all the time while doing stuff (obviously its lagged 5 or so mins) for the constellation your in.
4. Maybe add the constellation channel back instead.

The problem I see with point 4 is you could end up with massive numbers of people in channels all the time and as I understood this was a cause of lag.

Taur

althan gnartians
Gallente
Bipolar Barnstorming
Posted - 2007.09.01 09:53:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: althan gnartians on 01/09/2007 09:53:50
Originally by: RtoZ

My problem with the current system, allthough tbh I use local as much as anyone when in lowsec, is that people are just too visible, which is fine for an alliance in alliance space or for a blob, but completely sucks for all small gang and individual endeavours. And imo that is what is wrong with eve 0.0 gameplay, it is too focused on the big guys, which leaves alliance space underexplored.



And what does local have to do with that issue, the aliances will just get one more advantages, their blobs will be the only thing that can protect you from gankers.

It takess less then 30 seconds for a good prober to spot if theres ships in a given system, you wont get the invisibility you think you need, and certainly big alliances can spare the resources to do hourly sweeps of most of their core space.

Non residents living in 0.0 and low sec PvE'ers will be the big big looser if local goes, NRDS(also known as anti-pirate squads) will be nerfed to death and your only real warning system will be too, along with the loners main channel for communication.


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