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This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
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Eventy
Posted - 2007.08.08 21:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Eventy on 08/08/2007 21:38:57
Have you ever bounced off an empty small standard container in a Drake?

Why can a 14000000kg object bounce off a 10000kg object? Why doesn't the 10000kg object get bounced into next week?

Point being, all objects in EVE have attributes (including mass). Can a simple patch be made that fixes the game physics such that if a bigger object bounces off a small object mass (and velocity, which is also known) be taken into consideration such that the smaller object feels a larger effect.

I look forward to the day my Drake won't bounce off an empty can!

Cheers
Eventy

Belenkas
FinFleet
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.08.08 21:13:00 - [2]
 

While it might be difficult with stationary objects like cargo cans and they rather stay stationary, but ships bumping should be fixed accordingly anyway.

How can a frigate do any influence on dreadnought alignment? How can battleship do any influence on titan alignment?
The sheer size and mass differences make it completely unrealistic... Yes, yes, there are lot of things not in line with physics, but this one isn't that hard to make.

Chruker
Posted - 2007.08.09 03:41:00 - [3]
 

I agree. This is one of the things that I don't get why it haven't been like this all time.

William Hamilton
Caldari
Endless Destruction
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.08.09 05:12:00 - [4]
 

It's becasue oif the inertia modifier every object has, making some objects stay nearly stationary all the time...

TheJLobes
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2007.08.09 05:42:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: TheJLobes on 09/08/2007 05:43:22
First of all, think. Yes, if the game obeyed real-world physics, the container would be bounced off 10x the speed you were moving. WHY DO YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN?!

*Approaches container*
*Hits container*
*Watches container fly off into the distance*
"Hope there wasn't any good loot in there."

Besides, haven't you noticed? Real world physics don't apply in the world of Eve:

1. In reality, an object with a constant force applied to it in space (where there is no drag) doesn't have a top speed. It will keep accelerating as long as a force is applied to it.

2. You can refine something, and get back more m^3 of minerals than the volume of the original object

3. Ship mass doesn't include cargo

4. Gunfire doesn't affect a ship's heading or velocity

5. Ships need only 1 set of rear-facing thrusters to accelerate, decelerate, and maneuver through all 3 axes

In fact, there are very few game mechanics based on real world physics. Game mechanics are designed to make the game playable, understandable, and balanced to all players, not to mimic spaceflight.

Lews Stark
Perkone
Posted - 2007.08.09 12:21:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Lews Stark on 09/08/2007 12:21:50
Originally by: TheJLobes

1. In reality, an object with a constant force applied to it in space (where there is no drag) doesn't have a top speed. It will keep accelerating as long as a force is applied to it.

2. You can refine something, and get back more m^3 of minerals than the volume of the original object

3. Ship mass doesn't include cargo

4. Gunfire doesn't affect a ship's heading or velocity

5. Ships need only 1 set of rear-facing thrusters to accelerate, decelerate, and maneuver through all 3 axes

In fact, there are very few game mechanics based on real world physics. Game mechanics are designed to make the game playable, understandable, and balanced to all players, not to mimic spaceflight.


1. Right.

2. And ? Physics tell us that there is conservation of mass (excluding nuclear reactions), not of volume. When you're making a mayonnaise, the volume of the components taken separately is smaller than the final volume of the mayonnaise.

3. Right.

4. I guess you're talking about recoil. It all depends. Gunpowder firearms have recoil. A RPG launcher doesn't. Since we don't know about the exact technology used in EVE weapons, we can't say if there's recoil or not.

5. Assuming that deceleration is "natural" (see point 1), only three thrusters are enough to go in any direction you want. If they are not aligned, of course. There's a little problem with frigates and destroyers then, indeed.

However, as you said, I don't think EVE was ever intended to be a realistic game.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.08.09 12:49:00 - [7]
 

I also look foward to the day only NASA pilots can playEVE!


Lishan Kamatar
Posted - 2007.08.09 15:59:00 - [8]
 


4. Gunfire doesn't affect a ship's heading or velocity

i worked this out on a tempest when i was in one of my very bored states of mind.

the force of all 6 guns fireing would be the same ratio of a rather large fly hitting a car.

Eventy
Posted - 2007.08.09 22:02:00 - [9]
 

So because EVE physics doesn't match real world physics my request to have my Drake not bounce off an empty can is .... unrealistic?

Cheers
Eventy

TheJLobes
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2007.08.09 22:36:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Eventy
So because EVE physics doesn't match real world physics my request to have my Drake not bounce off an empty can is .... unrealistic?

Cheers
Eventy


No, I suppose you're right. I overlooked your main complaint. But, to be honest, how much does this really affect your gameplay? Would you really rather to have to chase down a can that your ship hit than have your Drake bounce off it? Not to mention the additional lag the server would generate by having to track mobile cans/wrecks.

Yeah, we've all looked at the screen when our BS has bounced off a can/'roid, made a funny face, and thought "Thats not right..." But there really isn't a better solution.

TheJLobes
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2007.08.09 22:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Lishan Kamatar

4. Gunfire doesn't affect a ship's heading or velocity

i worked this out on a tempest when i was in one of my very bored states of mind.

the force of all 6 guns fireing would be the same ratio of a rather large fly hitting a car.



I'm curious as to how you worked this out without knowing the velocity of the fired projectile...

Menod Penter
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.08.09 22:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Eventy
So because EVE physics doesn't match real world physics my request to have my Drake not bounce off an empty can is .... unrealistic?

Cheers
Eventy
I think RL physics should be nerfed to match the physics of Eve :)

Have a Nice Day :)
Menod Penter - Mayor of Rens


Beastofburden
Posted - 2007.08.09 23:53:00 - [13]
 

I think the OP is right with about half of his request.
The idea of making cans/wrecks bumpable would open too many ways for griefers, and it would be a pain in general (like someone said, accidentally bumping your own loot).
On the other hand, the concept of having a Frig de-allign a BS or even Cap Ship is indeed silly. Speed and mass should definately be factored in there.
Optimal would be (imho) if cans/wrecks stayed how they are, but wouldn´t hinder a considerably bigger ships movement. A trashcan may force a biker to go around, while an 18-wheeler will just push said can aside (aka fly through).

The idea of having mass factor in the actual cargo is not bad, but that would prolly need some re-balancing of ships, cargoexpanders/-rigs etc.


TheJLobes
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2007.08.10 17:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Beastofburden

The idea of having mass factor in the actual cargo is not bad, but that would prolly need some re-balancing of ships, cargoexpanders/-rigs etc.




Lol, that would nerf freighters back to the stone age. That wasn't a suggestion, merely an example of how Eve physics don't match RL physics.

MyOwnSling
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.08.10 18:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: TheJLobes
Originally by: Lishan Kamatar

4. Gunfire doesn't affect a ship's heading or velocity

i worked this out on a tempest when i was in one of my very bored states of mind.

the force of all 6 guns fireing would be the same ratio of a rather large fly hitting a car.



I'm curious as to how you worked this out without knowing the velocity of the fired projectile...

I was wondering the same thing, though I believe the final velocity is not the question, it's the acceleration of the projectile before it leaves the gun that you would need.

TheJLobes
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2007.08.10 19:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: TheJLobes
Originally by: Lishan Kamatar

4. Gunfire doesn't affect a ship's heading or velocity

i worked this out on a tempest when i was in one of my very bored states of mind.

the force of all 6 guns fireing would be the same ratio of a rather large fly hitting a car.



I'm curious as to how you worked this out without knowing the velocity of the fired projectile...

I was wondering the same thing, though I believe the final velocity is not the question, it's the acceleration of the projectile before it leaves the gun that you would need.


Well, technically you'd need the force on the projectile, but since apparently it takes the same amount of time to hit a target, regardless of distance, the speed of the projectile is infinite, therefore acceleration and force would be infinite.

so, TECHNICALLY, if you fire the gun, your ship should fly at infinite speed in the opposite direction.

Icome4u
Caldari
28 Meows Later
Infinitas Consortium
Posted - 2007.08.11 07:17:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Icome4u on 11/08/2007 07:18:14
Why can a interceptor bump me away from my position... make those ****ers crash and burn on my shields :D

Oh and by far the lamest physic thread i have seen. 90% of you kids are wrong. Try GOOGLE next time. Or High School.

Eventy
Posted - 2007.08.11 20:28:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Eventy on 11/08/2007 21:03:13
Originally by: Icome4u
Oh and by far the lamest physic thread i have seen. 90% of you kids are wrong. Try GOOGLE next time. Or High School.


How clever; you claim 90% of the 'kids' who post here are wrong without actually telling us who is wrong and why. Even more clever that you type "i" instead of "I" to inject irony into your implication that others are stupid.

Very clever indeed, to imply others are unintelligent, in an unintelligent way.

Cheers
Eventy


 

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