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Scatim Helicon
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.07.26 23:59:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 26/07/2007 23:59:14
Originally by: fire 59
Edited by: fire 59 on 26/07/2007 23:06:48
Kinda like your ftz huh

Quite the opposite. The biggest failing (from this grunt's perspective) that we had with the FTZ was that we threw it open to whoever wanted in and didn't vet applicants properly for what we needed, and so rather than the influx of miners and producers we were hoping to get we ended up with 90%+ ratters, which aren't all that great in a scheme primarily aimed at building up local markets.

Sorry about the lack of flaming in this post, I'll try harder next time.

Aeleva
Caldari
Hegemonic Core
CUST0S M0RUM
Posted - 2007.07.27 00:16:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 26/07/2007 23:59:14
Originally by: fire 59
Edited by: fire 59 on 26/07/2007 23:06:48
Kinda like your ftz huh

Quite the opposite. The biggest failing (from this grunt's perspective) that we had with the FTZ was that we threw it open to whoever wanted in and didn't vet applicants properly for what we needed, and so rather than the influx of miners and producers we were hoping to get we ended up with 90%+ ratters, which aren't all that great in a scheme primarily aimed at building up local markets.

Sorry about the lack of flaming in this post, I'll try harder next time.



Its hard to mine when there is no security and you are likely to get ganked before long.

Of note with regards to GBC - The very good reason bob will vet applicants is that they dont want crappy isk farmy corps joining up, or leechers. If you want to join you need to be able to pull your weight and help out, not just leech off your fellow alliance members and make them look bad.

TBH i think its the most sensible policy.

Gaunty
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:01:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Originally by: Achaiah
Also, if your alliance accepts that Joshua Foiritain mark your alliance's space as BoB space in that map of his, you are a pet.


Joshua has a pillow with molle printed on it.

- Gob



Bwahahaha Laughing

Yggdrassill Yeltsin
Caldari
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:14:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 27/07/2007 01:18:01
Originally by: Aeleva
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 26/07/2007 23:59:14
Originally by: fire 59
Edited by: fire 59 on 26/07/2007 23:06:48
Kinda like your ftz huh

Quite the opposite. The biggest failing (from this grunt's perspective) that we had with the FTZ was that we threw it open to whoever wanted in and didn't vet applicants properly for what we needed, and so rather than the influx of miners and producers we were hoping to get we ended up with 90%+ ratters, which aren't all that great in a scheme primarily aimed at building up local markets.

Sorry about the lack of flaming in this post, I'll try harder next time.



Its hard to mine when there is no security and you are likely to get ganked before long.

Of note with regards to GBC - The very good reason bob will vet applicants is that they dont want crappy isk farmy corps joining up, or leechers. If you want to join you need to be able to pull your weight and help out, not just leech off your fellow alliance members and make them look bad.

TBH i think its the most sensible policy.


I don't think anyone is arguing that this isn't a reasonable step for BoB (from a harsh Machiavellian standpoint, anyway). The point is that any sovereign alliance that allows itself to be dictated to by BoB should probably reconsider any rationale they make to themselves and others that they are in fact sovereign and independent.

If you are ruled by another, that other rules you. Simple. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if that's what you're into.

Obron Mettlo
Minmatar
Gladfit Shipyards
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:25:00 - [35]
 

sniggerdly tried to be BoB pets but Dian told us no Sad

Orangir
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:27:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: PirateShampoo
Just saying it does not make it so... if only... where is your proof for this accusation.


At one point, Goonswarm had an entire alliance lined up to become a BoB pet, which then fell through after the war broke out early. The average Goon knows much more about how BoB handles their pets than the pets do themselves, mostly because the leaders of your alliance will try to hide the fact that BoB controls pretty much every aspect of it.

Dianabolic
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:29:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: fire 59
Kinda like your ftz huh

Quite the opposite. The biggest failing (from this grunt's perspective) that we had with the FTZ was that we threw it open to whoever wanted in and didn't vet applicants properly for what we needed, and so rather than the influx of miners and producers we were hoping to get we ended up with 90%+ ratters, which aren't all that great in a scheme primarily aimed at building up local markets.

Sorry about the lack of flaming in this post, I'll try harder next time.



It isn't hard to agree with the enemy when sense prevails.

Nailed, Scatim.

Smack can come in local!

Yggdrassill Yeltsin
Caldari
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:30:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: PirateShampoo
Just saying it does not make it so... if only... where is your proof for this accusation.


This point isn't really up for debate now that several of said pets have admitted it in the thread. Can we move on?

Dianabolic
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:32:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin
Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 27/07/2007 01:18:01
Originally by: Aeleva
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 26/07/2007 23:59:14
Originally by: fire 59
Edited by: fire 59 on 26/07/2007 23:06:48
Kinda like your ftz huh

Quite the opposite. The biggest failing (from this grunt's perspective) that we had with the FTZ was that we threw it open to whoever wanted in and didn't vet applicants properly for what we needed, and so rather than the influx of miners and producers we were hoping to get we ended up with 90%+ ratters, which aren't all that great in a scheme primarily aimed at building up local markets.

Sorry about the lack of flaming in this post, I'll try harder next time.



Its hard to mine when there is no security and you are likely to get ganked before long.

Of note with regards to GBC - The very good reason bob will vet applicants is that they dont want crappy isk farmy corps joining up, or leechers. If you want to join you need to be able to pull your weight and help out, not just leech off your fellow alliance members and make them look bad.

TBH i think its the most sensible policy.


I don't think anyone is arguing that this isn't a reasonable step for BoB (from a harsh Machiavellian standpoint, anyway). The point is that any sovereign alliance that allows itself to be dictated to by BoB should probably reconsider any rationale they make to themselves and others that they are in fact sovereign and independent.

If you are ruled by another, that other rules you. Simple. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if that's what you're into.


Everyone does it.

Or, rather, everyone with half a brain - any space holding entity that allows a guest groupt to join without any checks and balances on their membership will also do so to any other group in that community. Security for one, means security for all - those that don't realise that won't fit in so it really is no loss if people prefer to be "sovereign" in someone elses space (oxymorons are great, aren't they?)

In criticising groups that accept our rule on this, you also criticise your own. If that is your intention, more power to you, it does however (imo) show a distinct lack of understanding of the tenant / landlord relationship of 0.0 space.

BustyBounty
Caldari
Vengeance of the Fallen
Curse Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:33:00 - [40]
 

Quote:
The very good reason bob will vet applicants is that they dont want crappy isk farmy corps joining up, or leechers. If you want to join you need to be able to pull your weight and help out, not just leech off your fellow alliance members and make them look bad.

how much do you pay bob a month?

are you allowed to run any complexes within the space you are renting?

are you allowed to mine and rat in whatever system you like within the borders of the space you are renting?

do bob require you to pay rent during war times when you are already losing ships to defend there space for them?

do bob help you defend in times of need?

genuine questions im just curious

Death Priest
Amarr
Stronghold corp
Knights Of the Southerncross
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:38:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Death Priest on 27/07/2007 01:38:04
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate
Originally by: Felxia
Is this true.Shocked Well from a security point of view I understand but I guess it's what you pay for paying rent in bobs space.


Yep.

To be part of BOBs fantastic coalition, you not only have to pay a high rent for horrible pieces of space, they also decide who gets into your alliance and who doesn't.


If this is True then SOMEONE has a Titanic Ego and E-Peen that must be constantly "Petted"
Anyone or any Alliance that allows this much control of a rented space might as well quit the game.
No Flames intended but this sounds rediculous TBH ugh



Dianabolic
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:45:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: BustyBounty
how much do you pay bob a month?

are you allowed to run any complexes within the space you are renting?

are you allowed to mine and rat in whatever system you like within the borders of the space you are renting?

do bob require you to pay rent during war times when you are already losing ships to defend there space for them?

do bob help you defend in times of need?

genuine questions im just curious


Costs vary.

Yes.

Yes, on some levels you get exclusive access to the belts.

No, we discount or, depending on how involved people are, completely waive the fee.

We try.

Feel free to eve-mail any further questions, I've taken them as genuine but I fear the forums will turn them otherwise.

Good night all.

Proxay
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.07.27 01:46:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Death Priest
Edited by: Death Priest on 27/07/2007 01:38:04
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate
Originally by: Felxia
Is this true.Shocked Well from a security point of view I understand but I guess it's what you pay for paying rent in bobs space.


Yep.

To be part of BOBs fantastic coalition, you not only have to pay a high rent for horrible pieces of space, they also decide who gets into your alliance and who doesn't.


If this is True then SOMEONE has a Titanic Ego and E-Peen that must be constantly "Petted"
Anyone or any Alliance that allows this much control of a rented space might as well quit the game.
No Flames intended but this sounds rediculous TBH ugh





There's a hundred ways to spin this.

Landlord > Hi, that roommate you want, was previously a tenant and he ****ed up my rooms
Tenant > Oh, really?
Landlord > Yeah I'd really appreciate it if you didn't bring him back, it's not worth it to have him around.
Tenant > Oh I see, fair enough.

Summary's ftw.

Yggdrassill Yeltsin
Caldari
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
Posted - 2007.07.27 02:00:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Proxay
Originally by: Death Priest
Edited by: Death Priest on 27/07/2007 01:38:04
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate
Originally by: Felxia
Is this true.Shocked Well from a security point of view I understand but I guess it's what you pay for paying rent in bobs space.


Yep.

To be part of BOBs fantastic coalition, you not only have to pay a high rent for horrible pieces of space, they also decide who gets into your alliance and who doesn't.


If this is True then SOMEONE has a Titanic Ego and E-Peen that must be constantly "Petted"
Anyone or any Alliance that allows this much control of a rented space might as well quit the game.
No Flames intended but this sounds rediculous TBH ugh





There's a hundred ways to spin this.

Landlord > Hi, that roommate you want, was previously a tenant and he ****ed up my rooms
Tenant > Oh, really?
Landlord > Yeah I'd really appreciate it if you didn't bring him back, it's not worth it to have him around.
Tenant > Oh I see, fair enough.

Summary's ftw.


Computer

Game

Mihailo Great
Gallente
Dublin Core
Posted - 2007.07.27 02:16:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Aeleva

Its hard to mine when there is no security and you are likely to get ganked before long.


What security does the GBC have other than from a sieging ennemy? none. BOB does not stop gankers roaming through your space. Ask GONAD.

Originally by: Aeleva

Of note with regards to GBC - The very good reason bob will vet applicants is that they dont want crappy isk farmy corps joining up, or leechers. If you want to join you need to be able to pull your weight and help out, not just leech off your fellow alliance members and make them look bad.

TBH i think its the most sensible policy.


Problem is, it never was true, but nice try. Xelas anyone? Miners with Attitude? It is perhaps you have ****ty alliance names that most other pets don't remember them, but a lot of BOB pets are no more.

Proxay
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.07.27 02:20:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Mihailo Great

Problem is, it never was true, but nice try. Xelas anyone? Miners with Attitude? It is perhaps you have ****ty alliance names that most other pets don't remember them, but a lot of BOB pets are no more.


Problem is, you don't know what you're talking about here.

Xelas <-> Bob had no communications, Xelas was in the entirety of about a year working completely separate from bob, and about the only thing the two entities shared was an intel channel or two.

Xelas wasn't a bob renter, they were never vetted for which corps joined or not, Xelas was there to 'occupy' fountain, and to deter small entities from ever getting a foothold.

Neo Triton
Amarr
Unamed Mofos
Posted - 2007.07.27 02:22:00 - [47]
 

thats not true, they let fatal in......

Nt

cal nereus
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.07.27 03:17:00 - [48]
 

The FTZ was a Free Trade Zone, ANYONE could participate as long as they respected a couple rules. There was no exclusion.

The idea of one alliance dictating what corps could join another alliance, on the other hand, does imply exclusion.

That's the proposed difference, although personally I fail to see any proof of the latter happening, and the former did not exactly work...

Zarimax Mishka
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.27 03:41:00 - [49]
 

It's going to get REAL interesting when these pets RISE, RMF, SOCO get sovereignty level 4 and realize that they can turtle up with cyno jammers and jump bridges and invulnerable POSes and defend themselves without paying BoB a penny...






Or is BoB forbidding pets from getting constellation capitals?

Luc Ferros
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.07.27 03:42:00 - [50]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Ivan K (mods@ccpgames.com)

RabbidFerret
Gallente
Kinetic Cartel
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.07.27 04:03:00 - [51]
 

1 a: a pampered and usually spoiled child b: a person who is treated with unusual kindness or consideration : darling
2: a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility.

I see nothing about alliances here.

However, 2a is a common misconception- Cats make very good utility tools, you just have to know how to use them.


Rikeka
Amarr
Eye of God
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2007.07.27 04:08:00 - [52]
 

From a security point of view, is a smart thing to do...

Proxay
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.07.27 04:31:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin
Originally by: Proxay

There's a hundred ways to spin this.

Landlord > Hi, that roommate you want, was previously a tenant and he ****ed up my rooms
Tenant > Oh, really?
Landlord > Yeah I'd really appreciate it if you didn't bring him back, it's not worth it to have him around.
Tenant > Oh I see, fair enough.

Summary's ftw.


Computer

Game


Since your mind is too small to comprehend analogies, here's another version.

BoB > Hi there, you know that corporation you want to recruit, we've had past incidents with them, and they've generally proved to be quite useless.
GBC Member > Really?
BoB > Yeah, we'd appreciate it if you didn't bring them into the GBC since it'd probably end up with them leaching resources and probably just screwing up things.
GBC Member > kk, np.


Did you understand that one? Or do I need to teach you the ABC, followed by basic English?

Orangir
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.27 04:41:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Proxay
Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin
Originally by: Proxay

There's a hundred ways to spin this.

Landlord > Hi, that roommate you want, was previously a tenant and he ****ed up my rooms
Tenant > Oh, really?
Landlord > Yeah I'd really appreciate it if you didn't bring him back, it's not worth it to have him around.
Tenant > Oh I see, fair enough.

Summary's ftw.


Computer

Game


Since your mind is too small to comprehend analogies, here's another version.

BoB > Hi there, you know that corporation you want to recruit, we've had past incidents with them, and they've generally proved to be quite useless.
GBC Member > Really?
BoB > Yeah, we'll kick you out and set you red if you bring them into the GBC, oh and your rent is due, plus we're holding a mandatory op in 9-9 be there or your alliance will be removed, also we're going to require another batch of POSes so get on that.
GBC Member > kk, np.


Did you understand that one? Or do I need to teach you the ABC, followed by basic English?


hurf blurf fixed for reality

Angelus Damelon
Gallente
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.07.27 04:50:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Zarimax Mishka
It's going to get REAL interesting when these pets RISE, RMF, SOCO get sovereignty level 4 and realize that they can turtle up with cyno jammers and jump bridges and invulnerable POSes and defend themselves without paying BoB a penny...

Or is BoB forbidding pets from getting constellation capitals?


ahahahahah RMF or SOCO defending themselves aaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha

Proxay
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.07.27 05:01:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Orangir

hurf blurf fixed for reality


How many alliances have been booted from the GBC Mr. Goon?

Johnny ReeRee
Caldari
The ReeRee Brigade
Posted - 2007.07.27 05:05:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Johnny ReeRee on 27/07/2007 05:09:22
Originally by: Achaiah
Also, if your alliance accepts that Joshua Foiritain mark your alliance's space as BoB space in that map of his, you are a pet.


You mean like how the goonies used to send sad little notes to Joshua begging him to mark goonie space as RA space, because they didn't want the attention? (This was after getting crushed utterly in Syndicate.)

RA let you guys use a plex yet?

Seeing goonies and IAC people going on about pets over and over and over again pretty much is an automatic winner for the "Best inadvertent self-reference" category for the Interwebs awards. Just great stuff.

Orangir
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.27 05:23:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Proxay
Originally by: Orangir

hurf blurf fixed for reality


How many alliances have been booted from the GBC Mr. Goon?


Xelas and GONAD in the past month alone? Not sure about any before that, I never paid attention to BoB pets until we started removing them.

Proxay
Gallente
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.07.27 05:25:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Proxay on 27/07/2007 05:26:10
Originally by: Orangir
Originally by: Proxay
Originally by: Orangir

hurf blurf fixed for reality


How many alliances have been booted from the GBC Mr. Goon?


Xelas and GONAD in the past month alone? Not sure about any before that, I never paid attention to BoB pets until we started removing them.


Xelas and The H orde to my knowledge, and for good reason looking back, it's not like they'll attack a useful and committed ally. You're simply trying to score e-points with your fellow goons for trying to belittle your foe.

You fail, and I can only hope that the enemies you belittle come back to bite you in the arse and destroy your alliance.

H orde is a swear word!?!?!?!

cal nereus
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.07.27 05:29:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: cal nereus on 27/07/2007 05:30:06
There are two types of organizational structures that I see at work here: hierarchy and committee.

BoB and its allies seem to be very hierarchical, while RA and Goonswarm are less so.

RedSwarm seems to be an alliance of autonomous entities, although clearly one is the big bear and the other the bees. The bees help the bear and the bear helps the bees, and although one seems more dangerous than the other, both mutually benefit from the relationship. Command is not centralized with one or the other except in times when it is needed.

Band of Brothers and most of its allies, on the other hand, are a true hierarchy. One dominant powerhouse that is on the top of a pyramid containing the other lesser powers at the base. Some real-world analogies might include the League of Delos (Athens) or the Warsaw Pact (Soviet Union). I would like to point out that this hierarchical structure of alliance has worked in the past, and from a security view point it is a smart move on the part of BoB.

There are exceptions in both camps, but I'm not going to mention them, because I'm wallowing in my own bias. Very Happy


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