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Llerrad Gabemid
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.07.13 23:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Llerrad Gabemid on 13/07/2007 23:08:51
Anytime a solo player wants something for solo play, the obvious reply comes up: "This is not a single player game, noob. It's an MMOG, Massively MULTIPLAYER Online Game".

Yes. yes it is. It is a multiplayer game. This does not mean solo play cannot exist, cannot be incorporated or that it's pointless/stupid. It still factors in to the whole of the game. They still have to interact with the universe and still affect it. They just prefer not to work with others. But that still means he can get attacked by PCs (multiplayer dimension), has to sell to/buy from real people (moar mp) etc etc. This is an MMOG, yes, not WoW where you're forced to join 400 man raid groups, or 100 man battlegroups to do anything.

You can exist in an MMO as a "solo" player, still interact with the world and have fun. What's your problem with these people? Let them do what they want, throw em a bone. It's not like they're hurting your experience. The point of the game is to have fun, and do what you want. I love the freedom in EVE. Why deny the freedom to solo play?

Jennai
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.07.13 23:11:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid
Why deny the freedom to solo play?


because they spam up the forum with garbage threads every time they get their ore stolen or get shot while autopiloting through lowsec

Mari Onette
Amarr
Equilibrium.
Posted - 2007.07.13 23:14:00 - [3]
 

I don't think anyone believes solo players cannot exist in eve. Solo players are just at a severe disadvantage simply because large corps are able to do bigger things, and accumulate wealth much faster. Not to mention solo players never have backup.

Llerrad Gabemid
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.07.13 23:33:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Jennai
because they spam up the forum with garbage threads every time they get their ore stolen or get shot while autopiloting through lowsec
oh please, non-solo players whine and spam just as much.

Quote:
I don't think anyone believes solo players cannot exist in eve. Solo players are just at a severe disadvantage simply because large corps are able to do bigger things, and accumulate wealth much faster. Not to mention solo players never have backup.
People tend to want to shut out solo players from any fixes or improvesments that would mainly help solo players. Like they're not entitled to anything. They can just carve out a living and if they can't, tough. Where as something goes wrong for a regular player, they deserve dev attention. That's the attitude many people take, and that's what i see as idiotic.

Mari Onette
Amarr
Equilibrium.
Posted - 2007.07.13 23:44:00 - [5]
 

Solo players are entitled to everything everyone else in the game is entitled to.

Whether or not they have the skills and resources to gain access to what they are entitled to is another issue, and is not a problem you fix by buffing or nerfing.

People flame those who want buffs for solo players because any such buffs will be exploitable by large corps as well, and will ultimately put the single players back at square zero, if not several steps back from where they started.

Most proposed buffs are self centered, and their posters lack a big enough picture of the game to realize how horribly unbalanced things would become if such proposals were implemented. Hence the Flames.

If you want to do big things in eve, you can do 2 things.
1: Find friends to work with.
2: Find enemies to work with and rob them blind the first chance you get.

If you truly want to work alone, try working the second angle. Just don't expect to have lots of friends after you pull off your heist.

Llerrad Gabemid
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.07.13 23:51:00 - [6]
 

That's a pretty general statement... the thing is, either you're wrong and they aren't making self cetnered/stupid buffs, or they are, but then again, so is everyone else including non-solo players. You're statements are correct in a sense, but it's nonsense to limit that rhetoric to only solo-players. You're statements certainly do not pertain only to solo players, and yet people are more prone to attack solo players for the same thing, based in a kind of "solo play discrimiantion". there's definitely alot of anti-solo player sentiment, and the negative replies to their please i would have to argue are more because of that than anything you said, as that really covers everyone's statements...

boogaboob
Caldari
Arctic Wolves
RaVeN Federation
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:10:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: boogaboob on 14/07/2007 00:11:27
Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid
That's a pretty general statement... the thing is, either you're wrong and they aren't making self cetnered/stupid buffs, or they are, but then again, so is everyone else including non-solo players. You're statements are correct in a sense, but it's nonsense to limit that rhetoric to only solo-players. You're statements certainly do not pertain only to solo players, and yet people are more prone to attack solo players for the same thing, based in a kind of "solo play discrimiantion". there's definitely alot of anti-solo player sentiment, and the negative replies to their please i would have to argue are more because of that than anything you said, as that really covers everyone's statements...


You're being extremely vague and unspecific.

How do you feel this 'discrimination' manifests itself? Merely in the inability of single players to accomplish as much as groups? because that's not going to change. Hostility towards people that plead for solo buffs comes from the very fact that they are pleading for solo buffs, and thus greatly misunderstanding the nature of the game.

And if there are truly problems that you believe can be fixed, how can you fix them? And don't say 'allow solo players to not have to interact with others except in chat', because the very nature of this game is that, no matter what you do, you are interacting with others on some level.

Mari Onette
Amarr
Equilibrium.
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:11:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid
That's a pretty general statement... the thing is, either you're wrong and they aren't making self cetnered/stupid buffs, or they are, but then again, so is everyone else including non-solo players. You're statements are correct in a sense, but it's nonsense to limit that rhetoric to only solo-players.


You are correct sir. 99% of all buff/nerf threads are the result of a drunken, back seat grope fest, and a broken prophylactic.

However, solo players get it worse, because they usually want things that are hard for a group of people to do, to be easy enough for a solo player to do as well; or worse yet, they want protection from groups because theres no way to fight off a group of people without another group of people.

If the content it easy enough for a solo player, its too easy for a group. The needs of the group always outweigh the needs of the individual.

Just get some friends and a good corp. the socializing will do you good I promise. Your only other option is to accept that in MMO's solo players will always get the short end of the stick.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:21:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Mari Onette
they want protection from groups because theres no way to fight off a group of people without another group of people.


This is not Doom. A single space marine can not fight off legions of enemies.

Llerrad Gabemid
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:28:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mari Onette
Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid
That's a pretty general statement... the thing is, either you're wrong and they aren't making self cetnered/stupid buffs, or they are, but then again, so is everyone else including non-solo players. You're statements are correct in a sense, but it's nonsense to limit that rhetoric to only solo-players.


You are correct sir. 99% of all buff/nerf threads are the result of a drunken, back seat grope fest, and a broken prophylactic.

However, solo players get it worse, because they usually want things that are hard for a group of people to do, to be easy enough for a solo player to do as well; or worse yet, they want protection from groups because theres no way to fight off a group of people without another group of people.

If the content it easy enough for a solo player, its too easy for a group. The needs of the group always outweigh the needs of the individual.

Just get some friends and a good corp. the socializing will do you good I promise. Your only other option is to accept that in MMO's solo players will always get the short end of the stick.
again your statements about solo players is very generalized and not really any more true than it is for the average player.

for the record, i enjoy both solo and small group play, i'm not strictly a solo player.

Mari Onette
Amarr
Equilibrium.
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:40:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Llerrad Gabemid
again your statements about solo players is very generalized and not really any more true than it is for the average player.

for the record, i enjoy both solo and small group play, i'm not strictly a solo player.


Your statements about solo players being hated is also very general and not really any more true true then it is for the average players.

If you don't like my explanations, then I challenge your entire concept; that solo'ers get made fun of more then other groups of players. You are only aware of how often solo players get smacked because you are one. I'm sure if you were a carrier pilot, you would notice a lot more of the threads where people say carriers are cheap, unbalanced ships that should be nerfed.

I propose the following.

Ignorant people with half baked ideas and with no idea about how the game works will get smacked at an equal rate regardless of what they want nerfed or buffed and why. Ignorant People who resemble the remarks made by smack talkers will respond to the smack, and believe that they are being discriminated against.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.07.14 00:57:00 - [12]
 

WOW

so your ignoring factional warfare?

all of the non-solo players hate that feature

your all the same

STFU

PVPER say stupid solo carbears

and stupid carebears say stupid group pvp people

AS:DKJA:SKDH

Carryon
Posted - 2007.07.14 02:52:00 - [13]
 

Here's an idea for you solo players that feel left out. Join a corp, much like the one I am in (no this is not a recruitment, just and example) that is a player corp but people do whatever they want. Then, when convenient, there are other friends around to help you do things, like finish a mission or build a ship. These corp can normally be found by their requirements, which is generally very low tax rate and nothing else.

I have several friends who are solo types and I interact with them about as much as my corp mates, which my tell you something about my corp I guess. Friends, friends, and more friends. They are very handy.

band0fdevs
Gallente
Band of Dev's
Posted - 2007.07.14 03:17:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Carryon
Here's an idea for you solo players that feel left out. Join a corp, much like the one I am in (no this is not a recruitment, just and example) that is a player corp but people do whatever they want. Then, when convenient, there are other friends around to help you do things, like finish a mission or build a ship. These corp can normally be found by their requirements, which is generally very low tax rate and nothing else.

I have several friends who are solo types and I interact with them about as much as my corp mates, which my tell you something about my corp I guess. Friends, friends, and more friends. They are very handy.


well posted all we can do is correct em when they complain, factional warfare will still involve groups of players representing the factions working with each other.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2007.07.14 05:08:00 - [15]
 

One can play as one like. I've played solo for over 3 years now and it i doable for sure.

Jane Vladmir
Gallente
Warmongers
Eu Allstars.
Posted - 2007.07.14 05:17:00 - [16]
 

What really needs to be solved is solo pvp.

F'nog
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.07.14 06:28:00 - [17]
 

I don't think solo players are hated by the community in general. In fact, I enjoy solo play. I also enjoy corp play, not that I have much time for either lately. But I digress...

What I, and most others hate, as has largely been outline above, are the solo players who want everything to be equal, so that they can achieve what groups do through coordination and hard work all by themselves.

For instance, Titans, Motherships and Outposts should never be attainable by solo players. There's no RP reason for it. These are massive undertakings that take hundred or thousands of hours to complete by well-coordinated groups. You can do pretty much anything else in Eve solo, as Chribba has proven with his Veldnaught.

But Alliance-level undertaking should not be whined about by solo players. You just have to accept that you can't do everything possible on your own.

Could Microsoft exist if it were only Bill Gates doing all the work? Could Napoleon have conquered most of Europe without any troops?

It may just be a game, but everyone needs to understand that some things are beyond their reach without help.

It's only when people don't understand this that others get mad. I particularly think of the recent thread about Galente PvP ships wherein the OP was annoyed that he couldn't take on multiple ships with a Gallente ship. Well, duh. That's just common sense.

Galan Amarias
Amarr
Kantian Principle
Posted - 2007.07.14 07:49:00 - [18]
 

To the OP,

You are quick to shoot down any generalities directed at solo players though you have use a very broad brush to describe what you percive to be attacks against them. Fair is fair, a generalzed argument gets generalized responses.

Now, I'd say solo player or carebear or young corp ceo on the short end of the stick, whatever, the posts that get flamed have nothing to do with who you are and everything to do with what you are suggesting.

Basically it works like this. Person A. encounters a problem they feel is insurmountable, be it high sec ganking, solo pvp, whatever. Because they feel it is insurmountable they look to have the game mechanics altered to suite themselves. They don't look to what the existing mechanics allow for as it usually means an adjustment to their playstyle.

Pretty much anyone trying to change the rules of the game to fit their style will be flamed off these boards in seconds. This is a good thing. It is done largely to ensure any devs cruising the forums know that the larger playerbase don't support whatever scheme is being proposed.

So yes, solo whiners who want a magic bullet to get ahead of groups will be flammed. People who think they should be safe while afk will be flamed. Anyone who wants rules to "fix" things that are not broken will be flamed. And rightly so.

-Galan

Qingu
Posted - 2007.07.14 08:26:00 - [19]
 

The whines of the solo player would have more impact if they grouped together and posted with one voice.

Ironic.

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2007.07.14 10:37:00 - [20]
 

I don't see what the issue is with solo players. I have spent most the last three years as a solo player and except for the fact that I would like to take over a solar system in 0.0 and cannot, I have not noticed any limitations. Actually I have found a lot of advantages in playing solo... my Isk is not taken, I only do what I want with my time, and it is more challenging.

I really do not see any problems with playing solo, only with some here on the boards bashing solo players.

Brutor Shaun
Posted - 2007.07.14 11:27:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Jane Vladmir
What really needs to be solved is solo pvp.


Agreed. I've played solo for almost 3 years and enjoyed myself 99.99% of the time. The one thing that really grinds me is that 9 times out of 10, if I want to PvP, I'll get jumped by a gang who don't understand the concept of a fun and fair fight.

And yes, Eve is a multiplayer game, however multiplayer doesn't mean that everyone has to play in a team! A multiplayer game can be made up of multiple solo players.


KilleR 004
Posted - 2007.07.14 12:34:00 - [22]
 

Eve is full of solo players just look at the empire corps they are full of vets doing there own thing, solo players in the main work alone or in small groups because this is a game and they hate being told what to do and when.

Its a game for fun and to chill out from everyday life, some corps are run like jobs.

Eve has room for everyone to play the game as they wish there is no right or wrong way to play eve.


 

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