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Elo span
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:20:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Erichk Knaar
I heard some people are violence their boats...
Laughing



LaughingLaughingLaughing

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:32:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 12/07/2007 16:02:21
the price has dropped to 3$ for 100 mil.


This is because of the huge amount of farmed isk, not because the supply is low as you seem to be suggesting.

Quote:
One alliance tricked 30 of farmers with false safety in 0.0 by having them pay the alliance to be there and then blowing them out of the sky (awesome story on EvE TV).


That's funny, it is.

Quote:
so basically no one is buying isk.


Laughing You don't really believe that do you. Up to 22% of all MMO players regularly buy in-game currency/items from currency/item sellers. Eve is no different.

Quote:
the farmers get becoming paranoid of the eve community because we are jerks to them.


Hate to break it to you, Jack, but almost every MMO community vocally hates currency farmers and treats them poorly. Having said that, its sad that more people can't dislike farmers without loading it with jingoist and racist language e.g. "stupid Chinese farmers!"

Quote:
do you think they were expecting a wow community full of kids with credits cards? if they were they were very mistaken. eve has only grown and yet the price has dropped.


Actually, do you know who is more likely to buy currency? Older players who tend to have less playing time because they have jobs. Guess what? Eve has one of the oldest player bases in the MMO industry. I believe the average age is 26. So my guess is they were expecting an older player base who have professional jobs and hence less time and more money, and I think that's probably what they got.

Quote:
did you know the first isk sale was 1 mil for 400$ on ebay? fun little EOn fact.


Laughing Yeah that is funny.

However, back when that 1 mill sold for 400$, the population was tiny and inflation (the bane of every MMO economy) hadn't hit yet. 1 mill isk was probably worth well over what a billion isk is worth today.

Quote:
point is huzzah!
the reason why were getting spamed in channels about buying isk is because were driving them broke.


Um... no.

Quote:
I kinda wonder why they are still here even.... they can't be making any sort of good money anymore.


Oh, I assure you they make good money. The 100 people in Ingunn farming courier missions tell me so.

Quote:
but congratz to the eve community for being more mature than wow :)


For sure.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:42:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/10/2007 17:44:16
" Originally by: MotherMoonEdited by: MotherMoon on 12/07/2007 16:02:21
the price has dropped to 3$ for 100 mil.



This is because of the huge amount of farmed isk, not because the supply is low as you seem to be suggesting."



GuyA: Hey, trit is up today! it's 3.60 the supply must be greater than the demand.
Karlemgne: This is because of the huge amount of mined isk, not because the supply is low as you seem to be suggesting

your logic moves in circles my friend, ask yourself why the supply is high for isk, could it be.... that demand is low!???!?!?!

no that doesn't make sense :P


p.s.(WoW this crawled out of no whereVery Happy)


also I can't say anything bad about the rest of your views, I agree more or less.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2007.10.28 17:50:00 - [94]
 

There will be families out in teh cold. :(

Graven Stein
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:12:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
There will be families out in teh cold. :(


They could always switch to farming characters.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:13:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 28/10/2007 18:37:27
Originally by: Graven Stein
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
There will be families out in teh cold. :(


They could always switch to farming characters.


like I think I said somewhere, if they did this in WoW instead of eve wouldn't they make more money???

Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:31:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Graven Stein
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
There will be families out in teh cold. :(


They could always switch to farming characters.


like I think I said somewhere, if they did this is WoW instead of eve wouldn't they make more money???

On PVP servers, no. On PVE servers, perhaps. You can trick and annoy them there too but they are easier to fight in eve.

Devious Syn
Celestial Mayhem
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:36:00 - [98]
 

In all honestly GTC sells is what killed farmers, not that the eve community is above buying isk.

Why buy isk that might get your account banned when you can do it another way totally legally?.

Personally I think EVERY mmo should do what eve does.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:37:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Devious Syn
In all honestly GTC sells is what killed farmers, not that the eve community is above buying isk.

Why buy isk that might get your account banned when you can do it another way totally legally?.

Personally I think EVERY mmo should do what eve does.


I'm not sure that was in place when I made this thread :P

Sellerella2
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.10.28 18:49:00 - [100]
 

Running for the hills? No, check out this thread:

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=616462

Interesting read about how they are quite alive and active. We even had CCP Wrangler come in and say a bunch of accounts were banned a few days ago which *today* are still in game passing along isk to their masters. Very sad stuff.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2007.10.28 20:30:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Chevy Prefect
I believe CCP is being extremely shortsighted in the ISK, character, and item selling policy. An open exchange for ISK against various world currencies could be run by CCP. Money would flow in and out of game, but if you look into the example of Second Life, I believe you will find a big inflow of currencies.

If they just did that, ISK would be 'created' from nothing. That'd be extremely bad for inflation!
GTC card sales are much better as not a single ISK is added to the game.

GM Nova

Posted - 2007.10.28 21:15:00 - [102]
 

Here is my little theory:

The GMs have been putting in just a little extra effort in figting Real Money Trade and farming. Don't get me wrong, every day we find a few ISK seller characters, close their accounts and reverse all their donations. For an example; You all know how irritating it is to get an evemail from an ISK spammer. Well, these spammers are always connected to the farmers in some way so we catch them.

Lately we have been turning the counter ISK insurgency up a notch. Hundreds of ISK seller accounts have been closed for good. Hundreds of ISK farmer accounts (macro miners as well as complex farmers (the ones in Navy Ravens)) have been permanently closed. In the past month, over a trillion ISK has been removed from the economy as we reversed ISK donation from ISK sellers. A trillion is one thousand billions. ( <- In the english language. In other laguages such as German, a billion is a million millions.)

A player buying ISK now has a very high probability of getting caught and having his bought ISK confiscated.



What movie is this quote from?

Man:
We'll make hundreds of tousands of dollars. No! We'll make thousands of tousands of dollars?

Another man:
(Looks at Man)
They call'em Millions Frank.



Sellerella2
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.10.28 21:56:00 - [103]
 

You know GM Nova, it's hard to believe you when you say things like this. CCP Wranger said something similar a few days ago and it turned out not to be true. What are we to think?

Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.10.28 22:08:00 - [104]
 

I still have no idea why shutting down isk sellers is so hard.

IP's are easy to trace.
Their MO is almost always the same.
CCP already has logs on money transfers, if they are not enough simple flags should show who is buying crap for huge prices etc when they launder.

CCP seems to focus on the guy buying more than the guy selling, but obviously not everyone is getting caught who buys. If you want to remove its impact you focus on both.

Herculite
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.10.28 22:11:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: GM Nova
Here is my little theory:
.......





Hope its true and you can turn the corner on these guys.

Lithalnas
Amarr
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2007.10.28 22:39:00 - [106]
 

Quote:
In the past month, over a trillion ISK has been removed from the economy as we reversed ISK donation from ISK sellers.


OWNED, well i know ccp doesnt do much out in the open, but they do work behind the scenes i guess.

Digital Solaris
Posted - 2007.10.28 23:09:00 - [107]
 

Now, if only new players would think "Aha!" and purchase a GTC or two, sell one of them for some cash and add to the farmers' pain.

Drenan
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.10.28 23:12:00 - [108]
 



So...now that it is possible to buy isk for $3.00 per 100mil from the farmers... how long will it be before we see threads about players buying $14.95 GTC's for six dollars worth of farmed isk? Shocked



Voogru
Gallente
Massive Damage
We Are John Galt
Posted - 2007.10.28 23:19:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: voogru on 28/10/2007 23:23:15
Originally by: GM Nova
Lately we have been turning the counter ISK insurgency up a notch.


I hate to break it to you, GM Nova, but it's going to have to be turned up a little bit more then a 'notch'. Preferably, for staters, your going to need to turn it up and break the knob off so it can't be turned down until it's too late (for the farmers).

There are thousands and thousands of farmers.

And how many people with the authority to ban them are looking for them on a full time basis?

1 Person is capable of doing absolute devastating damage to the farmers (I know I am, but ah, I can't ban them now can I?), but thats ALL they should be doing.

And no, it does not hurt CCP's income, because they come right back with a shiney new account. But you are killing their profit and making EVE a better place. Look at all of the posts whining about farmers.

When I see farmers that I've petitioned months ago still farming and doing their stuff, it hurts.

And yes, I know they are farmers. Don't tell me "Oh, they are not farmers" when they are claiming blatant scams on contracts for hundreds of millions of ISK daily.


Adonis 4174
Posted - 2007.10.28 23:39:00 - [110]
 

It does make sense that targetting isk buyers would make sellers drop their prices in order to try and persuade people to take the chance and buy. Nothing like buyer resistance to ruin a market.

Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2007.10.29 00:18:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: GM Nova
Here is my little theory:

The GMs have been putting in just a little extra effort in figting Real Money Trade and farming. Don't get me wrong, every day we find a few ISK seller characters, close their accounts and reverse all their donations. For an example; You all know how irritating it is to get an evemail from an ISK spammer. Well, these spammers are always connected to the farmers in some way so we catch them.

Lately we have been turning the counter ISK insurgency up a notch. Hundreds of ISK seller accounts have been closed for good. Hundreds of ISK farmer accounts (macro miners as well as complex farmers (the ones in Navy Ravens)) have been permanently closed. In the past month, over a trillion ISK has been removed from the economy as we reversed ISK donation from ISK sellers. A trillion is one thousand billions. ( <- In the english language. In other laguages such as German, a billion is a million millions.)

A player buying ISK now has a very high probability of getting caught and having his bought ISK confiscated.



What movie is this quote from?

Man:
We'll make hundreds of tousands of dollars. No! We'll make thousands of tousands of dollars?

Another man:
(Looks at Man)
They call'em Millions Frank.




Proof or it didnt happen... oh wait... the farmers using contracts are still there.....

Reary Rikeyou
Posted - 2007.10.29 00:29:00 - [112]
 

Just add a "group" to the Petition window called "Isk Spammers". Have it generate ONE mail from the first person to report it. State a warning that if the accusation is false, severe consequences will follow.

If you code it right, everyone else who reports it won't generate a pile of redundant petitions, instead they'll get a pop-up, like... "This character has already been reported...." Each time that pop-up occurs, a hit-counter adds to the player in question, helping assess the situations authenticity.

Ofc, if you use my idea it will cost you Eleventy Thousand Billion isk. Razz




Caenus
Posted - 2007.10.29 04:53:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Caenus on 29/10/2007 04:54:49
I'd just like to say first, good this is happening.

Secondly, wouldn't the most logical assumption be that since even a computer has limits managing a number of accounts, leaving isk farmers alone to stick with the account they farm with instead of banning it means that once you know of their existence, you can track their movements, and thus hurt them even more by removing the isk players buy on a regular basis, than by removing the account completely, and having to wait for more damage to occur before finding their new account again to start it over.

system A (the one players DEMAND and whine should be occuring and CCP isnt doing): actively ban farmer accounts.

system B (more logical and reasonable): let people break the EULA buying isk, let farmer accounts stay, but once the farmer accounts are known, simply wait for the isk to get sold to a buyer, then remove the buyers isk. the buyer is out real money, and will not buy again, the seller is making a little money, but lost a customer, and they will not be able to keep any customer who buys from them once. their days are basically numbered and the word of mouth of players losing their isk and their RL money/accounts due to isk buying are also having a good effect.

its impossible to ban them, and to remove their accounts would require that you wait for them to cause a problem again until you gather enough evidence to ban them again. the main problem to the game community will stay, and the main problem to CCP will stay. with system B: the problems still stay, but will eventually be crushed.

I'd like to point out that people who break the rules knowingly should have more self control, not cry about entrapment. dont stick your hand in the fire if you know it will burn. Rolling Eyes

Daan Sai
Polytrope
Posted - 2007.10.29 06:13:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Daan Sai on 29/10/2007 06:15:55
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn

they are essentially invulnerable. They are only in danger when moving to new systems. Otherwise, its warp when local goes up, then log in warp, or cloak at safe, then log, etc.

Local makes it impossible to get the jump on them. Pick the fastest ship in game, for alignment and warp speed. Jump into system, pick and random belt and warp there as fast as game will allow. Arrive and see the torps still in flight, but raven gone.

and thats if you were lucky in your belt choice.

This is what its like 99% of the time hunting macro ratters. We can usually get thier scout alts or hauler alts with torps, but its a happy day when we get the actual raven itself.


Make a squad of GM/ISD ships that *don't* show on local, and let them sneak up and pew pew! Great recruitment incentive to ISD and GM 'ness, and a welcome change to editing IP tables I bet. Make it a mix.


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