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Shaister
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:25:00 - [1]
 

Is it me or does anyone else find that this is just silly ? what is the point of an intercepter which apparently is supposed to be the fastest ship in the game when fitted correctly.

But wait then along comes a battleship with more speed than a intercepter.

Welcome to the world of the Machrael* (not sure on spelling) now think of an intercepter moving at over 7000m/s with the dmg and tanking capability of a battleship.

problems:

A) moves to fast not even 6000m/s cruise missles can scratch it, they hit doing 0.0dmg 95% of the time.
B) guns can't track and hit it
C) is tanked to battleship specs
D) not even interceptors or correct speed specialised ships can catch it

not to mention u can't web it fast enough just moves to quickly..

I am just wondering if this Nerf is going to be fixed to meet with all other battleship speeds of around 100-120m/s

as the Mach sits at 197m/s standard.

Just think its nerfed.

or atleast bring something else out to battle it other than "just buy a mach and do the same thing".

Thanks
Shaister

Razvedchitsa
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:28:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Razvedchitsa on 03/07/2007 13:26:49
Yawn...

You'll be surprised to know than in over rated thing called RL bigger ships often go faster than smaller ones.


sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:29:00 - [3]
 

the ship is supposed to be fast that its role, plenty of them die. If it was a standard tech 1 piece of crap doing what its doing I might agree but this is what the mach is for.

Gloria Stitz
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:29:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Shaister


Welcome to the world of the Machrael*


http://www.glaucus.org.uk/mackerel.jpg


Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:29:00 - [5]
 

My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...

Loki Life
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:34:00 - [6]
 

Unfortunately the nerf to these ships have been nerfed quite a while ago. Nanofibers no longer give 30m/s bonus to speed. Second these ships are not tanked as the normal BS is done. These ships are tanked with speed. They might have one armor rep, but I doubt they would put on something that would slow them down.

As for the intercepter, it is the fastest ship. I've seen an intercepter go 13500m/s and I've heard of them going 16000m/s. These pilots use anything and everything to gain speed. Namely Snake Implates.

MOS DEF
0utbreak
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:34:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...

While that might be true there is still no ship that can effectively keep a snakemach in place.
All a 20k/sec inty can do to a mach is getting NOSed and killed withing a acouple seconds.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:37:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 03/07/2007 13:42:16
Originally by: Razvedchitsa
Edited by: Razvedchitsa on 03/07/2007 13:26:49
Yawn...

You'll be surprised to know than in over rated thing called RL bigger ships often go faster than smaller ones.




Yep. For ships in water this is absolutely true. Has to do with a thing called hull speed which basically says the longer a ship the faster it can move in the water (this ignores boats that plane...rise out of the water and ride on top ala a speed boat). The perverse result of this is big ships can and often do go faster than little ships. In WWII the Iowa Class battleships were produced in part to be one of the few ships that could keep up with aircraft carriers going at full tilt. They'd both readily outrun frigates and destroyers.

Spaceships would be a bit different though. IRL as long as you apply a thrust the ship will accelerate. Bigger ships just taking longer to do it than little ones but top speed wouldn't really count since just keep accelerating and you'll get there eventually (fuel permitting).

SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:49:00 - [9]
 

spend as much on ur ceptor as you would on do on a mach that does 7km/s.... U'll see that ur gonna be alot faster than 7km/s.



-

Shaister
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:52:00 - [10]
 

the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!

nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..

however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..

i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.

just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.

Semkhet
Dark Tornado
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...

While that might be true there is still no ship that can effectively keep a snakemach in place.
All a 20k/sec inty can do to a mach is getting NOSed and killed withing a acouple seconds.


Incorrect. A pimped Crow would field a domi disruptor = 30 Km. Hence the ceptor can quietly orbit at 29Km. If the Mach pilot uses heat so can the ceptor also. Besides, with the correct skills, mods and implants a Crow can run MWD and disruptor togheter for a long time. How long can the Machariel MWD ?

Wylker
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:53:00 - [12]
 

Lol did someone get blown up by a speed-mach? There are plenty of ways to kill one, you just have to put a little planning into it.

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:55:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Shaister
the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!

nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..

however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..

i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.

just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.



Mach prices & availability vs Raven/Megathron/Any other non-faction BS anyone?

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:55:00 - [14]
 

2x arazu and some ceptors with webbers and target disruptors cna tackle trace and take these babies down real quick ( plus throw in some drones)

Semkhet
Dark Tornado
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2007.07.03 13:59:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Chribba
My Inty does close to 20km/s, I have yet to make my Mach go that fast...


Btw Chribba, speed has took quite a beating in recent nerfs. Is your 20 Km/sec figure recent, and besides the obvious implants, was reached thanks maxed gang skills and mods support from a CS ?

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:01:00 - [16]
 


IMO no BS should be able to move that fast. 1k fine. 2k okay thats stretching it. 7k? Um no.

Whats the point of flying an inty again?

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:11:00 - [17]
 

How about a rail siper setup. at long range you might just get the tracking on them and if they MWD to you you'll have no problem hitting them. The only question would be if you can break them before they reach you. a small gang of snipers might be able to pick them off one at a time.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:18:00 - [18]
 

A huginn or rapier can easily cancel out all the speed advantage of such a battleship.

If Macharial was just a tier 3 bs that cost 150 mil and could achieve 7000 m/s with standard tech 2 fit, then you would be right to cry about imbalance. But you are talking about extreme case here, a rare ship with rare mods, with total cost well over 2 billion isk. And once you start talking about special cases, then you should accept a counter-special case of having a rapier or huginn with 40km double webs in gang. Or if you want a pimped out rapier against pimped out mach, the rapier can have 60km web range.

Really, if it's not that hard to lose a 2 billion isk mach. I have lost 3 already.

Deacon Ix
Volition Cult
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:39:00 - [19]
 

Claymore

Skirmish warfare link - Interdiction Maneuvers
Skirmish Warfare mindlink

Arazu

Huginn

with fraction scrams its possible to get 80km range
with fraction webbs 60km+

throw in a rook and you have a nice anti nano gang for a fraction of the cost

Steve Holt
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:44:00 - [20]
 

7k/s u suck ive seen 12k/s mach's

Kalazar
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:44:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Deacon Ix
with fraction scrams its possible to get 80km range
with fraction webbs 60km+


WTB Fraction mods, they sound nice. Especially the webbs.

Spy4Hire
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:49:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Shaister


C) is tanked to battleship specs



Incorrect. A nanoBS does *NOT* have a tank, because almost every ounce of Cap is being used up by the MWD to maintain that speed. All of its lows are taken up by Inertial stabs/nanofibers/overdrives w/ speed rigs & snake implants. If it runs a shield tank (eliminating much of it's ability to keep the target pinned down i.e. tackle) it'll be purely passive and few ships capable of running the nanOMG speedster have enough mids to hold a good shield tank.

So... if you get aggressed by a nanOMG it'll usually try to get in close enough to NOS to keep it's MWD going. Return the favor and it'll end up running before your tank breaks.

Der Ewige
Federal Investigations Agency
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:54:00 - [23]
 

Well 7 km/s is not that fast.
Interceptors can surpase 50 km/s.

Deacon Ix
Volition Cult
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.07.03 14:57:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Deacon Ix on 03/07/2007 15:01:18
Originally by: Kalazar
Originally by: Deacon Ix
with fraction scrams its possible to get 80km range
with fraction webbs 60km+


WTB Fraction mods, they sound nice. Especially the webbs.


Domination webb range 15km

Huginn 60% bonus to webb range/lvl

@ lvl 5 300%

=60km webb range

+ gang module bonus

Skirmish warfare specialist 5

Warfare link specialist 5

Skirmish Warfare link - Interdiction Maneuvers 3% per lvl of Warfare link specialist = 15%

15% + Skirmish warfare specialist @ 10% bonus/lvl = 22.5%

Skirmish warfare mindlink + 50%

=33.75%

60 x 1.3375

max range ~ 80km with webbs

this is with maxed skills but even with lvl 4 recons you get a pretty good range

with some of the office webbs you have a basic range of 40km Shocked

*edit* forgot to add the bonus of a claymore 3%/lvl to skirmish warfare links that will bump the range up to over 90km....


similar happens with a Warp Disrupter but I CBA to go thu the calcs

sorry for going a bit off topic...


Indigo Johnson
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.07.03 15:00:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 03/07/2007 14:59:12
Overheat a faction webber with gang links and you break a shade over 100km I do belive.

Edit: can't remember if thats with recon 4 or 5.

Deacon Ix
Volition Cult
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.07.03 15:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Indigo Johnson
Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 03/07/2007 14:59:12
Overheat a faction webber with gang links and you break a shade over 100km I do belive.

Edit: can't remember if thats with recon 4 or 5.


oh yeah and then heat on top ShockedShocked

muhahahaha

Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.07.03 15:06:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Shaister
the point im really trying to get across is that no other battleship i see can match it.. ive tried a raven, rokh, tempest, typhoon, megathron, domi, abaddon, apoc, and the mach will always smash me hands down nossing me and launching torpedoes while moving at over 7000m/s !!

nothing i shoot or fire can catch it.. doesn't really matter if the ship has no resistances or repair systems if u can hit it with missles doing 0.0 dmg u never need to rep or put resists on it..

however every other ship in the game aka Battleship is quite even close.. tempest vs rokh, raven vs megathron etc.. still good chance of kill one or the other..

i guess i just see 12 people in mach's whiping out 30 man fleets cause nothing can hit them..can't even get a web as it doesn't take effect cause moves to fast.. atleast when an interceptor goes 16000m/s its share fire power isn't high against slower bigger ships.. where as this Mach has the fire power of a battleship and the speed of an intercepter there is no counter except maybe an inty which would be nossed and destroyed in seconds.

just my 2cents.. but hey its how the games done just wanted to know other peoples opinions.


I'll duell your all-so-mighty speed mach in a scorp everytime.
You'll be permajammed and nossed/neuted out of mwd faster than you can cry about my drones slowly eating away your 3bil investment.


If we talk gang jsut add a hughin to that scorp and you won't even have the chance to escape if you wanted.



or take another approach and use a carrier with web drones (still cheaper than mach @ 7kms). if 15 drones are chaseing you a 48km diameter bubble becomes smaller and smaller very soon.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.07.03 15:11:00 - [28]
 

Er, lol.

If he can track you, you can track him, too. If he can't track you, he's got only 4 unbonused missile hardpoints to use (meaning, anything can tank it, a passive tank jaguar could probably tank it *indefinitely*), turning it into a 3+bil (probably more) interceptor with cruiser damage, cruiser agility, and dreadnaught price.

All you need is a double-webbing huggin, and suddenly it's a 2+bil piece of junk with a paper-tank, low DPS, and a speed of about 300ish m/sec max. Ransom him for two billion, profit ;P

Krugerrand
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2007.07.03 15:28:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Er, lol.

If he can track you, you can track him, too. If he can't track you, he's got only 4 unbonused missile hardpoints to use (meaning, anything can tank it, a passive tank jaguar could probably tank it *indefinitely*), turning it into a 3+bil (probably more) interceptor with cruiser damage, cruiser agility, and dreadnaught price.




I'd love to see a Jag tank a nanomach :p

Nothing wrong with them, not as fast as they used to be and a lot of ISK is spent on making them fast.

Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
Posted - 2007.07.03 15:30:00 - [30]
 

Ahhh the daily "wah wah I'm a moron" thread. Goes well with a cup of tea Smile


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