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SibSpi
Minmatar
Strategic Syndicate
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.06.24 09:45:00 - [121]
 

Haven't been playing nearly as long as most of the people here, but I do have to agree, EVE is getting really, really boring.

The use of capital ships as the new BS is just game progression.

But, what I believe is killing solo PVP and small gang pvp is local standings, and warp to zero. And the arguments over why have been said over and over.

Sey'ada
Amarr
Evoke.
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.06.24 10:23:00 - [122]
 

Edited by: Sey''ada on 24/06/2007 10:22:15
Worst thing that happend to eve are carrier and ms. They are lag generators, they kill everything by lagging everything outugh

welsh wizard
Caldari
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.06.24 10:53:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: welsh wizard on 24/06/2007 10:52:13
I reckon this outpouring of feeling from this select portion of the community can be attributed to having played the game for 3-4 years, at least in part. People start to get weary of the very best games in that amount of time.

I do miss the prevalence of the battleship in the field though. The fast, brutal merciless 5 minute fleet fights of old are less and less common as multiple Ewar platforms and capital ships disrupt the flow of combat.

As LukeC says there is a certain aversion to engaging capital ships but I think his reasoning isnt infact entirely correct. Half the problem is the relative pointlessness of engaging anymore than 1 or 2 without capitals of your own. By now the initial rush in anticipation of the fight has ended. A whole fleet has to be organised and you have to have your dictor pilots, and you have to have your dampening ships and carrier pilots. "Oh they're not logged on, nevermind then".

On the other hand I can appreciate the positive aspects of these massive fights, they're just not always to my taste. Apparently this sentiment is shared by other members of the community.

Reversing the hitpoint buff could be a start...

BOBHOPE
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:08:00 - [124]
 

some good points in this thread but i personally still love it 4.5 yrs on.

i do get bored at times as a lot of my eve career has been about solo fights and small gang warfare but this is not always possible anymore :(

nevermind, i adapt and try as i will for the next 4.5 yrs Cool

MortyM
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:25:00 - [125]
 

You all sound like my grandparents, whining about how great things used to be and how everything is going to hell.
You fail to see that the problem is not with the game, but with yourself. It's only naturally that after a certain amount of time doing something you lose interest in it. The typical human response is to blame this on evolution of the game, but in reality it is much more because your yourself have evolved.

I used to have great fun flying around solo in cruise missile rifters, dual oversized ab cruisers, or whatever flavor of the month of the past. I could reminence about how much more fun that was and how sad it is that those things are not possible anymore. But consider that now after 4 years I'd still be flying cruise missile rifters, now THAT would be boring.

I've been bored with EvE too and taken breaks from it for a month, six months, or even longer. But it's the constant evolution of the game that makes me come back everytime. If things always stayed the same I would have left for good long ago.

welsh wizard
Caldari
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:35:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: MortyM
You all sound like my grandparents, whining about how great things used to be and how everything is going to hell.
You fail to see that the problem is not with the game, but with yourself. It's only naturally that after a certain amount of time doing something you lose interest in it. The typical human response is to blame this on evolution of the game, but in reality it is much more because your yourself have evolved.

I used to have great fun flying around solo in cruise missile rifters, dual oversized ab cruisers, or whatever flavor of the month of the past. I could reminence about how much more fun that was and how sad it is that those things are not possible anymore. But consider that now after 4 years I'd still be flying cruise missile rifters, now THAT would be boring.

I've been bored with EvE too and taken breaks from it for a month, six months, or even longer. But it's the constant evolution of the game that makes me come back everytime. If things always stayed the same I would have left for good long ago.


You're not wrong, I've seen it in multiple gaming communities before. The Counter-Strike 1.6 community died because everyone got bored of it, cheating was made the scapegoat though.

However I don't think it is entirely attributable to boredom, the pvp mechanic has changed significantly over the last year and much of it isn't to my taste either. A few months ago I was addicted, completely infatuated, then came the hitpoint buff & super capitals. Super capitals I can live with especially with the Rev 2 changes but the hitpoint buff proved completely unneccessary in my eyes.

I think many simpily miss the feeling that is vapourising an opponents battleship in 10 seconds with 3 gank battleships. Sure it was harsh on the target and whoever was made primary in a fight, but god-damn it was fun! The brutal no-holds-barred honesty of a fleets fire bought to bear seems to be a thing of the past because now you find yourself being brutally honest over a 10 minute period as a carriers health slowly trickles away.

Barry O'mass
Gallente
Fallen Nova
FREELANCER ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:38:00 - [127]
 

i am a new char and quite new to pvp, carebearing it up while i get some skills together. i decided to do a little solo hunting...

So jumped around 3 or 4 0.0 systems in my domi and come across a hostile Myr approaching same gate, he starts to close in on me, i assume he thinks i am a care bare. so i web scram and nos launch drones.. his tank is going down fast. Then he just disappears... i think log off? the gate fires.. oh he went though the gate. Lesson learnt

Then the gate fires again and a hac and a command ship come through and lock me.. great i am in for a fight, i will probably die but at least i am in for some fun, bang my shield, amour and hull all gone wtf. oh maybe that dreadnought has something to do with it!!!!

Second pvp exsperance came at a friendly gate camp, i sit there for over 1 hour, not being able to shoot anything because nothing bigger than a frigate is coming through ( i am in a cruiser) and they get popped before i can lock, then local lights up red.. great we are in for a fight.. as the reds warp in a pick my target open fire and die. wtf oh only me and a fellow corp mate are left at the gate.

Why wouldn't anybody stand and fight i ask myself...

Now these two exsperances plus some other's lead me to believe 1 thing;

PvP'ers don't like to grind for isk to buy a new ship to PvP in so why risk losing your ship if you can just out number some one and get easy kills. and from what i have seen / heard ppl only commit to a fight when they out number their opponent at least 2-1

I want fair fun fights but I donít think it is going to happen, so I will just gank ppl instead



Mei Han
Gallente
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:39:00 - [128]
 

Well the patch brought many good new changes for me and every other around i belive. The only disapointment in my oppinion is that CCP may should be more focused in the matters that bother us.

That is the performance. Its high time i belive for a new client that does not have that many problems AND does not forse your card to render or sthing when completely zoomed out.

On all accounts the Need for Speed initiate will overall give us a tiny boost in performance.

Darknesss
Gallente
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:44:00 - [129]
 

I do agree with ugluuk to a degree, there was a time i could go out solo in my mega/eos/taranis and get some absolutely amazing solo fights, as shown in my older video's. That kind of combat while now much harder to find does still exist, so does skirmishing non-blob warfare we get it all the time in venal.

Also asking for 1v1's ive only ever been betrayed in a 1v1 once, and it wouldnt put me off asking. I love to do 1v1's and im happy to say that alot of the people i do it with are honourable people who stick to their word.

If anyone in TRI offers or gets asked for a 1v1 and accepts they will play by the rules if they dont they will get booted from TRI.

But i do also agree that older players have to adapt to the times, but in different areas of space comes differing types of combat, try moving about a bit Very Happy

welsh wizard
Caldari
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.06.24 11:52:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: welsh wizard on 24/06/2007 11:51:23
Originally by: Darknesss
... That kind of combat while now much harder to find does still exist, so does skirmishing non-blob warfare we get it all the time in venal....


It does exist, it just doesn't matter as much anymore, the fleet isn't important. Capital ships, Ewar, interdictors & cyno ships do. With many feeling that the battleship should still be the backbone of every operation this is a sore point.

Plutoinum
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.06.24 12:15:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Plutoinum on 24/06/2007 12:22:02
Getting bored may be a reason.

So then for me it's:

- being bored of gate-camping (keeping a gatecamp up for a week against RA in the C-J area was more than enough camping for my whole life)

- getting bored of roam-ganking. Not really new to fly around with 8 people and gank some npc'ers. Have done that already 2 years ago in interceptor gangs

- battleship fights can be still good fun, but if they die in fighterswarm-lag, it's not fun anymore. And battleship fleetfights don't really have a big impact, it's all about poses and capitals

- The capital-age with huge fleets is not really open to me. Masses of ships and fighterswarms make eve to a slide show. I have noticed that the almost total freeze stops, if I open the map during combat. Well, then I can shoot something, but still not navigate right, because I'm on the map. This new eve seems to be made for 2006/2007 PCs and I don't have that and I don't plan to upgrade my PC once a year.

*edit* yes, and pos shooting and pos recharging sucks of course, if it's not done within half an hour. It's absolutely boring, except you get some fights inbetween, which often doesn't happen.

Tanya Kovacs
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.24 12:37:00 - [132]
 

CCP needs timesinks because they have to keep the players busy with skilling for something. I wonder what will happen when everybody and his dog is flying a dread or carrier?

Another point is: the increased player base. More subscriptions = more players out there = more blobs. Neutral

LUKEC
Amarr
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.24 12:43:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Darknesss
That kind of combat while now much harder to find does still exist, so does skirmishing non-blob warfare we get it all the time in venal.



Unless if you camp station with few capital ships & bubbles.

Don't get me wrong, it needs to be done in Venal if you want to maintain certain degree of control... just maybe you would get more fights if you would not camp... but perhaps only few mingshuwfh004 more would come dock every once in a while...

Maybe game mechanics need some changes, whole align & warp instantly, warp to 0, ss+cloak, ... It's carebear's paradise and exactly no need to fight for it.

Goberth Ludwig
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.06.24 12:51:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Ugluuk
The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today..

[...]




well most of the bears feel confident in their capitals without really knowing how to use them

thats why you sometimes see utter disasters on killboards with some alliance losing 5+ capitals to what was supposed to be a skirmish (as in, not a fight at a pos)

so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho :)

o/

- Gob

- Go

Ugluuk
Caldari
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:25:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Originally by: Ugluuk
The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today..

[...]




so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho


Well mate..

Plated Rax`s was 40mill..

Carriers cost 1 bill to learn the skills for..
1 bill for the ship..

Am i the only one in Eve that didn`t win the 100bill lottery?

To a more serious reply:

I work 9 hours each day..Add 2 hours driving to that + i got a little girl..

Plated Raxes i can still afford..But Carriers nope..:(

Eve has always been for those who have time..But before those with little time could also make a difference if they used a couple of days to make isk..

Couple of days has turned into months for a ship you might loose in 15min..


Vulor
Caldari
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.06.24 15:51:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Ugluuk

I work 9 hours each day..Add 2 hours driving to that + i got a little girl..



CCP nerf work!!! Cool

Hexman
Minmatar
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.06.24 16:01:00 - [137]
 

/signed

I particularly miss solo low-sec pirating...now, low-sec is mostly deserted :(

Keta Min
Amarr
El Bastardos
Freedom of Elbas
Posted - 2007.06.24 16:12:00 - [138]
 

i miss old pvp, too. Confused

Cuebick
Caldari
x Dark Incarna x
Posted - 2007.06.24 16:41:00 - [139]
 

I look back and I can only say..
those were the days man.. those were the days
I get more fun out of the test server

Father Weebles
Caldari
Celestial Refraction
Posted - 2007.06.24 17:26:00 - [140]
 

Blobs are used quite often these days im afraid. I remember 1 month ago there were 6 of us taking out a pure sleipnir (roaming gang), and pure jumps in 40 ppl, warps to the gate we were at and all of our clients froze. We lost 2 battleships and their pods and ccp gms gave them the same crap "we did not find any issues with the logs". **** that ccp, if your gms are not gonna give back our stuff because of server issues im not going to pvp in 00 anymore. Well, i went back to 00 a week ago, killed an omen and a hurricane in 2 1/2 hours of roaming. :/

Have had a blast going toe to toe with GUARD alliance blobs in empire tho.

Dave PSI
Minmatar
Haendlergilde
Gilde Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.24 17:29:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Oberkorn
I must agree with ugluuk. I miss the old days. Most of the fun I had was in the empire wars we had against The Confederation and FIX (lost count  ) small gang and a lot of soloing. Now its gank or get ganked + billion cyno jumps in on you. ShockedShockedShocked


If you had most of your fun in empire, nothing changed for you. Still no caps and no dictors there Wink

LUKEC
Amarr
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.24 18:17:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: LUKEC on 24/06/2007 18:17:46
Originally by: Dave PSI
Originally by: Oberkorn
I must agree with ugluuk. I miss the old days. Most of the fun I had was in the empire wars we had against The Confederation and FIX (lost count  ) small gang and a lot of soloing. Now its gank or get ganked + billion cyno jumps in on you. ShockedShockedShocked


If you had most of your fun in empire, nothing changed for you. Still no caps and no dictors there Wink


Ofcourse it did. Hp boosted for 1.25^2 and warp to 0.

Added: only thing you need to be afraid in empire is lagita and undock blackscreens. You can't die in anyhting smaller than bs, really.

Not that shooting 1 month old newbs and suiciding onto hulks presents much challenge.

The Hooch
Minmatar
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.24 18:30:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: The Hooch on 24/06/2007 18:40:08
Edited by: The Hooch on 24/06/2007 18:37:28
ok, time for suggestions I think please add to mine if you like.

1. POS's, easy and cheap to build, easy to kill

2. Bring back mines, a mined gate or POS will kill fighters and support very fast and thus reduce lag very quickly. Attacking a prepared position should always hurt. The one thats there "firstest with the mostest" should have advantage of position.

3. Stations should have built in nasty defenses and should be hard to kill and be able to defend its' self against anything except a capital ship attack.

4. Rather than make gangs stronger with implants and skills, make them less effective after say 25. Command and control is always the issue in large military formations, the bigger it is the greater the "fog of war". Trust me, after 24 years in military service you see this time after time. Communications get very fubared, people don't get orders, some people go to the wrong place you name it.

5. And I am sorry for saying this but Carriers are way to powerful. In real life terms they are sitting ducks without a whole fleet around them protecting it. Fighters should not be assignable, should have a limited range and ammunition. Real fighters are not a stand and fight weapons platform, they should have to be recalled and refueled after a few passes on a target.

6. For goodness sake back off the war costs and allow us to put some spice back in the game. Say what you want but pirates, BoB, Merc Corps are good for the economy. (I mean that)

7. Make bombers hurt like hell in low sec, especially on carriers

More to come.

Hexman
Minmatar
The Ankou
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.06.24 18:37:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: The Hooch
ok, time for suggestions I think please add to mine if you like.

bunch of stuff that makes sense....

More to come.


I'd like to shorten some of your suggestions into one sentence:

CCP stop trying to fix broken things by taking the easy way out (i.e. using the damn nerfbat)

hybridundertaker
Amarr
coracao ardente
Posted - 2007.06.24 18:40:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: hybridundertaker on 24/06/2007 18:46:07
well i do agree to some extent with the op. However, content is meant for ppl who like industry, carebearing, lotta isk etc as well as for pvpers. U whine 2 much about capital ships, damps wtf pwn carriers, dreads are hardly usefull for fleetcombat (if u dont bring caps ure self ofc), titans are rare (in solo/small gang buisiness that is), and most mothership pilots are 2 scared to ever leave the low sec.
A carebear might be very rich but its still a carebear, what is a bit upsetting is supercap fleet in hands of proper pvpers Wink

edited: i forgot to add one very nice thing thats the fact that prices go down on t2 and it will happen on faction stuff also with the new lp shop, so u will be able to get more goodies even if u grind less.

Wrayeth
Caldari
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2007.06.24 21:51:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Wrayeth on 24/06/2007 22:06:17
Originally by: welsh wizard
Reversing the hitpoint buff could be a start...


[sarcasm]What, make it possible to kill someone before his 3787 buddies show up from 3 jumps away? That'll never work - it's not like the game was like that for 3 years and a lot more fun back then or anything....[/sarcasm]

Seriously, I would support this change 100%. EDIT: Actually, I support it 97% - I think the capital hitpoint increase should stay in, though not, perhaps, with quite as many hitpoints as they have now.

Originally by: "The Hooch"
1. POS's, easy and cheap to build, easy to kill


I'd like to see this, too. Halve (or even quarter!) POS hitpoints and make the timer a static period instead of being changeable. I spent 4 hours today sitting in a dread in S-E at a friendly POS waiting for several hostile POS to come out of reinforced, then had roughly half an hour of actually DOING anything. I have much better things to do with my Sunday off from work, TBH.

EDIT: I keep thinking of new stuff to add. In regards to massively reducing POS hitpoints, since POS also have things like capital shipyards and research bays, a new structure should be introduced after my proposed change that massively boosts the POS defenses (back to pre-nerf levels) but prevents the POS from participating in the claiming of sovereignty.

EDIT: And again.... In regards to the post below mine, I agree that space is getting much too crowded. TBH, we need one or two more massive additions of new regions (preferrably not ones with those pointless rogue drones) to bring back the old sense that space is massive, dark, and empty.

Taurequis
Gallente
Waylander 01
Posted - 2007.06.24 22:03:00 - [147]
 

The only issue which i think many people dont see by focusing on the changes to ships, modules and gameplay alone is the space itself.

3-4 years ago we had 4000 people and many many stars. Isolation led to extreames of survival, extreames of risk, extreames of isolation.

Now we have 30000 people in the same space.

Sharing all the wonder. But alas you are hardly alone.

CCP should give us 10 times the space we already have.

And thus the sandbox is reborn.

Best Regards,

Taur

Elfaen Ethenwe
Caldari
Infusion.
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2007.06.24 22:34:00 - [148]
 

it does amuse me that those backing the point of the thread are the ones suffering and the ones against it are the ones who never lived it. Some parts of the old game did need fixing. ravens should not be able to keep up with their missiles, thorax's should not be able to kill fleets solo e.t.c but what we got was a harsh axe wield that has eventually killed the game for the solo player. I can almost still do it in a vagabond or a factioned curse, but any ship beyond that struggles. but i think that its not the game thats caused the loss of fun, its the fact theres a lot less in it.


Matrixcvd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.06.24 22:38:00 - [149]
 

Having played since March of last year, I find it interesting how many of the older players can't seem to adapt, something from RL springs to my mind Twisted Evil. This game is the most advanced set of rules and mechanics to ever grace a computer screen. It's sheer complexity and necessity for organization are what drive the exprience. With respect to the people who can't stand the fact there is no more solo, i think you should pick up a nice FPS/RTS and go nuts. This game isn't about what 1 person can do and the previous posters comments about the size and scope of space and the population have proved that.

When I first started playing, i would typically get ganked in my ferox or raven running missions in low sec by solo HAC pilot, i got organized and that buisness stopped by bring friends, omg did he say friends, to the fight. Back then you would look at how old the player was and judge whether you can take them, now its "can we bring what it takes to take out the enemey" and if thats 4-1 so be it, we get the kill mail and he goes via the POD train.

To the comments that people don't fight fair, this is the most ridiculous statement and just speaks volumes going back to the fact that certain people can't evolve. No one fights fair, why would you? You fight to win and kill the opponent. To the people out there who speak of fairness, should we all put on bright red coats and stand in a line marching thru a gate so that you may blow us to pieces? Or should we do what the demios pilot did, bait and WACK!. Never fight fair, there is no honor in dying. You want fair play tic-tac-toe.

We fight, we learn, we loose, we fight and next time hopefully we best the enemy. Get better organized, learn to engage and deal with capitals, heat will help T1 vs T2, suck it up or quit, plenty of new MMOs out there but i don't see 34000 people up and leaving because someone cyno bombed them the night before. And if they did, great! I wont be any chance of me flying under the same color.

Grytok
Gallente
KL0NKRIEGER
Posted - 2007.06.24 22:50:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Grytok on 24/06/2007 22:51:14
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig

well most of the bears feel confident in their capitals without really knowing how to use them

thats why you sometimes see utter disasters on killboards with some alliance losing 5+ capitals to what was supposed to be a skirmish (as in, not a fight at a pos)

so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho :)

o/

- Gob

- Go


Yeah, saw that today, when you jumped in 3 Carriers on our 3 BS + little support, while we were waiting to fight a small BS-gang of yours.

nvm..

Capitals are not all that bad, but they should not be able to engage something, thats smaller then them.
Carriers should give support to their Dread-Fleet, while engaging enemy POS, with Shield, Cap and Armour-Transfer, or sending out the Fighters to engage enemy Dreads.

Capitals are ment for territory warfare, i.E. POSs and Station engagements, not for engaging hostile Battleship-Gangs.
Remove their ability to lock anything smaller then a Capital, problem solved.


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