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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.10 06:35:00 - [1]
 

Comparing ceptors alone, only the crow can maintain an insanely high orbital velocity, maintain scram, and consistently damage it's opponent while avoiding almost all damage. All other ceptors if fit with beams, rails, or artillery cannot hope to do the damage the crow dishes out.

So why all the favoritism toward the crow? Don't you love the other ceptors just as much Sad?


Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2007.06.10 06:54:00 - [2]
 

It's a given that speed is an interceptor's tank. Let's put that aside for now.

I would surmise the Crow's "preferential treatment" to be because it cannot tank to any degree. It has less lows than the rest of the interceptors and as a tackler simply doesn't have the mids to shield tank (one could probably squeeze on a shield booster, should the fancy take you - compared to the respectable omnitank the Amarr ones can fit, for example).

It's either something like that, or to make up for the pigswill that makes up most of the rest of the Caldari lineup.

NIkis
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.06.10 12:04:00 - [3]
 

Crow has the ability to speed tank (because its an inty) and the ability to fire missiles (because its a caldari ship). What exactly should be nerfed ?! Theres no favoritism here, just a fortunate sum of events which make crow stand out from the rest (even so, it has its flaws, so again what nerf ?) Evil or Very Mad
And no , I don't even have evasive maneuvering 5, let alone interceptors skill. Take that nerf bat elsewhere. Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

Neuromandis
Posted - 2007.06.10 13:40:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Neuromandis on 10/06/2007 13:39:17
nvm, I just disagree that the crow is anything more than "useful"...

Tazerz
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.06.10 14:37:00 - [5]
 

Firstly, I don't fly caldari interceptors.
All I can say is it's just an unfortunate coincidence for other races that missiles hit just as well no matter how fast the attacker is moving. Just a shame for guns.

In my opinion, that's just the end of the discussion :P

Haffrage
Regeneration
Posted - 2007.06.10 15:19:00 - [6]
 

In a Ceptor v. Ceptor battle the Crow has its odds stacked against it. Sure, the crow is fast, but if its missiles can't hit the target it has 0 damage, hell even if they can it still might have 0 damage. A Crusader v. Crow will most of the time bring the Crusader out on top, whether the Crow dies or warps, assuming both are equally-skilled pilots. The same goes for the Claw.

Guns have their use, missiles have their use. Permarun setups with MWD and point are generally best with missiles, due to lack of tracking and optimal.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2007.06.10 17:45:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
It's a given that speed is an interceptor's tank. Let's put that aside for now.

I would surmise the Crow's "preferential treatment" to be because it cannot tank to any degree. It has less lows than the rest of the interceptors and as a tackler simply doesn't have the mids to shield tank (one could probably squeeze on a shield booster, should the fancy take you - compared to the respectable omnitank the Amarr ones can fit, for example).

It's either something like that, or to make up for the pigswill that makes up most of the rest of the Caldari lineup.


Can't tank? For goodness sake you can stick a T2 medium shield extender on it which gives it around 2k of shields, still go over 4km/s easily allways hit the targets it is tackling if it fits standard launchers, still hits targets at 15km with decent skills and rockets without resorting to rigs or anything more fancy than T2 modules.

It has the same slot layout as the Taranis and Crusader if memmory serves me correctly as well.






Ski69
Posted - 2007.06.10 21:18:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
It's a given that speed is an interceptor's tank. Let's put that aside for now.

I would surmise the Crow's "preferential treatment" to be because it cannot tank to any degree. It has less lows than the rest of the interceptors and as a tackler simply doesn't have the mids to shield tank (one could probably squeeze on a shield booster, should the fancy take you - compared to the respectable omnitank the Amarr ones can fit, for example).

It's either something like that, or to make up for the pigswill that makes up most of the rest of the Caldari lineup.


Can't tank? For goodness sake you can stick a T2 medium shield extender on it which gives it around 2k of shields, still go over 4km/s easily allways hit the targets it is tackling if it fits standard launchers, still hits targets at 15km with decent skills and rockets without resorting to rigs or anything more fancy than T2 modules.

It has the same slot layout as the Taranis and Crusader if memmory serves me correctly as well.

lolz

Remind me how you fit anything else but an extender without putting 3 aux power cores, no launchers on and perma run your mwd.

Anyways Ceptor vs Ceptor a Crow will get pwned on equal grounds.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2007.06.10 21:30:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 10/06/2007 21:40:59
Originally by: Ski69
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
It's a given that speed is an interceptor's tank. Let's put that aside for now.

I would surmise the Crow's "preferential treatment" to be because it cannot tank to any degree. It has less lows than the rest of the interceptors and as a tackler simply doesn't have the mids to shield tank (one could probably squeeze on a shield booster, should the fancy take you - compared to the respectable omnitank the Amarr ones can fit, for example).

It's either something like that, or to make up for the pigswill that makes up most of the rest of the Caldari lineup.


Can't tank? For goodness sake you can stick a T2 medium shield extender on it which gives it around 2k of shields, still go over 4km/s easily allways hit the targets it is tackling if it fits standard launchers, still hits targets at 15km with decent skills and rockets without resorting to rigs or anything more fancy than T2 modules.

It has the same slot layout as the Taranis and Crusader if memmory serves me correctly as well.

lolz

Remind me how you fit anything else but an extender without putting 3 aux power cores, no launchers on and perma run your mwd.

Anyways Ceptor vs Ceptor a Crow will get pwned on equal grounds.



I do regularly and if you need reminding it's because you don't have the skills to do that yet.Wink

Oh yeah it's not the grid that's the problem it's the usuall lack of CPU but if you really are tight on it use the best named extender instead and/or best named launchers. The only thing you wont be able to fit with maxed out support skills will be an all T2 standard launcher fit with a T2 disruptor. Use a named one instead. This setup uses 2 MAPU's

Also I have never run out of cap and lost a point while using the MWD on it. I can't perma run the MWD and disruptor but reckon with 2 cap rigs I could. Also if you use T2 rocket launchers instead you only need 1 MAPU which leaves 2 slots to fit relays or you can fit 3 diags instead but for cost I allways use the MAPU and relay.





Khozhlov Zhadov
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.06.10 23:00:00 - [10]
 

Please no nerf

I hate nerfing I GM for games of d&d (I know I know look at me the big shining geek Embarassed)and have nerfed things in games and found that it really doesnt help matters just frustrates players among other things. Anyway sorry that was off subject.

I was under the impression after reading the backstory that one man fighters and small ships where one of the caldari specialities (drones where developed in response to them) so any superiority to that i assumed would be down to that. making it the same as others would ruin (and i say this lots i know) the rp side of it.

im not on eve right now so i cant check but if it costs the same to produce and buy as other intys that arent as good then maybe it would be better to increase the recources needed to produce one and leave it as it is.

Lord Xavius
Posted - 2007.06.11 05:48:00 - [11]
 

Crows have crappy damage output compared to other inties, sure they are quite fast but there are faster inties.
Now you can't web, if you still decide to fit a web and go inside webbing range you will get webbed and die as 1. crappy damage 2. crappy tank.
It's a good tackler but very limited compared to other interceptors.

Neuromandis
Posted - 2007.06.11 10:01:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Lord Xavius
Crows have crappy damage output compared to other inties, sure they are quite fast but there are faster inties.


In fact, crows are pre-nerfed. They have their crappy damage to compensate for their other abilities.

Neeeext...

Tiirae
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2007.06.12 06:34:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Tiirae on 12/06/2007 06:33:04
Well, here's the thing: I'm a very experienced Crusader pilot. I've screwed around with almost all possible fittings. Sure, you can go really fast, but only if you want to be fighting in web range, or you need to use rigs. And if you go fast, you can't tank. Alternatively, if you tank (which it does relatively well for an inty) you can't go very fast (about 3km/s). Right now, my favorite setup is a beam Sader, though in order to perma run the damn thing it needs 4x CPRs or Cap rigs. Unrigged, it only goes maximum of 4km/s. Now, the beam sader is almost the only way to fit a crusader to fight outside web range (it's possible to do so with pulses, but there are other complications, such as tracking). The thing is, unless you're going almost 6km/s (not possible with my setup, even rigged), a crow's missiles will hit you. And sure, even though they deal a very small amount of damage, the sader is untanked. My point is that I've duelled many crows in my sader, and in most cases, the crow came out on top. There have been a few occasions when the crow had a remarkably bad fitting and/or pilot and I beat him, but the sheer numbers don't add up. My CEO's crow perma runs its setup with an orbit speed of 7km/s and 40 DPS. True, he spent almost 150 mil on it (with rigs and fittings), but still...

I don't think the crow should get nerfed, I just think the other ceptors should get boosted. As for the malediction, aside from being a tackler, there's almost no other use for it. It needs serious help.

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2007.06.12 07:13:00 - [14]
 

Quote:
I don't think the crow should get nerfed, I just think the other ceptors should get boosted. As for the malediction, aside from being a tackler, there's almost no other use for it. It needs serious help.


I agree... but ask a Taranis pilot what he thinks of the Ares, or a Crow pilot what he thinks of the Raptor.

As for fitting a small extender, light missiles and a mwd onto crow (whilst keeping the obligatory pvp-fit damage control) onto a Crow... well, I call shenanigans on that one!

Rockets at 15km yes, missiles no.



kill0rbunny
Caldari
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.12 07:46:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: kill0rbunny on 12/06/2007 07:50:07
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 12/06/2007 07:48:46
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 12/06/2007 07:45:24
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
As for fitting a small extender, light missiles and a mwd onto crow (whilst keeping the obligatory pvp-fit damage control) onto a Crow... well, I call shenanigans on that one!
Rockets at 15km yes, missiles no.



Crap.




Standard Missile Launcher II [50xBloodclaw Light Missile]
Standard Missile Launcher II [50xBloodclaw Light Missile]
Standard Missile Launcher II [50xBloodclaw Light Missile]
Turret Slot

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Medium Shield Extender II
Faint Warp Prohibitor I

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I



You can even do better with a close range stiletto.
My corp matey never lost a 1vs1 with it.



200mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage S]
200mm AutoCannon II [60xBarrage S]
'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher I [30xThorn Rocket]

Medium Shield Extender II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Warp Scrambler II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Overdrive Injector System II


Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2007.06.12 07:51:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 12/06/2007 07:52:17
No Damage control (I did say keeping the damage control)? Increased signature radius? MWD on?

That's going down

Gee Lok
Posted - 2007.06.12 09:20:00 - [17]
 

This just in from Ric Romero: Some ships in eve are better than others.


kill0rbunny
Caldari
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.12 09:46:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 12/06/2007 07:52:17
No Damage control (I did say keeping the damage control)? Increased signature radius? MWD on?
That's going down


I loled.

Who the hell cares about sig radius in a ceptor?

Damage control gives you an effective increase of about 450 Structure HP, Med Extender II gives you 1300 extra shield hp plus resists.

Seriously, get a clue before posting.

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2007.06.12 09:58:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
Who the hell cares about sig radius in a ceptor?


I lol'd

Quote:
Damage control gives you an effective increase of about 450 Structure HP, Med Extender II gives you 1300 extra shield hp plus resists.


Which would be eaten up by any Amarr ship with semi-decent tracking, as you have zero resist to EM. Resists > Hitpoints, and the damage control gives an (albeit small) bonus to all levels of resistance.

Seriously, get a clue before posting.

kill0rbunny
Caldari
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.06.12 11:51:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: kill0rbunny on 12/06/2007 12:11:14
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 12/06/2007 11:50:10
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Which would be eaten up by any Amarr ship with semi-decent tracking, as you have zero resist to EM. Resists > Hitpoints, and the damage control gives an (albeit small) bonus to all levels of resistance.
Seriously, get a clue before posting.


Rolling Eyes

Med Extender II:
1312 added effective HP against EM
1640 added effective HP against thermal
3280 added effective HP against Explosive
2186 added effective HP against Kinetic

Damage Control II on a crow:
660 HP added on structure + 60 added HP on armor + 90 added HP on shield =
810 effective added HP on each resistance.

Maybe you should do yourself some math before repeating my sentences like a parrot.
Sig radius=Irrelevant, as big guns do not hit you, small guns hit you anyways and missiles hit you for close to zero damage with MWD on.

But, after all, this is not the ships and modules section.



Dogfighter
Posted - 2007.06.12 19:21:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: NIkis
Crow has the ability to speed tank (because its an inty) and the ability to fire missiles (because its a caldari ship). What exactly should be nerfed ?! Theres no favoritism here, just a fortunate sum of events which make crow stand out from the rest (even so, it has its flaws, so again what nerf ?) Evil or Very Mad
And no , I don't even have evasive maneuvering 5, let alone interceptors skill. Take that nerf bat elsewhere. Evil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad


You are wrong. This interceptor should really be nerfed. And I hate this word: NERF. Let's take a High-slot missile launcher out of this ship. It should be a good trackler not a good fighter.

Morrigu Storm
D'tael Contracts
Posted - 2007.06.12 20:35:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Quote:
I don't think the crow should get nerfed, I just think the other ceptors should get boosted. As for the malediction, aside from being a tackler, there's almost no other use for it. It needs serious help.


I agree... but ask a Taranis pilot what he thinks of the Ares, or a Crow pilot what he thinks of the Raptor.

As for fitting a small extender, light missiles and a mwd onto crow (whilst keeping the obligatory pvp-fit damage control) onto a Crow... well, I call shenanigans on that one!

Rockets at 15km yes, missiles no.







I know what you are saying about the Ranis and Ares and why, but to me it's another case where ppl prefer a ship because of the pure DPS it can deliver and also most Gallente pilots don't want to train up for missiles.

There aren't many Gallente ships that have a missile bonus but because I wanted to use the Ares as well as a Ranis I trained up the missile skills. As long as I can stay out of web range of the Ranis (which is easy) I'll 1v1 them any day.

It sounds like I am changing the subject here but the point I am trying to make is that even the the less popular intis or indeed other shiptypes can be flown reasonably well with relevent skills and getting to know the ship and the more PPL realise this the less they might cry for ships to be nerfed.





 

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