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The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:03:00 - [1]
 

POS Bowling needs to be re-defined (again) as not being an exploit for two important reasons.

1: It forces people to use ship maintenance arrays; these were previously woefully underused. [this also gives everyone a very simple way to avoid being bowled....any ship losess to supercap bowling are directly attributable to sheer laziness rather than anything else]

2: The more ships there are on a grid, the more lag there is. Previously there was no way whatsoever to counter the massive lag generated at pos's by the countless ships carelessly left in space.[it has often been alleged of people that they leave said ships at pos purely to generate lag.] POS bowling gave the community a way to reduce the lag problems by removing the ships from the grid or forcing the offenders to use ship maintenance arrays for their intended purpose.

In summary, I don't know what provoked yet another policy change on this issue, but please seriously consider reverting to the previous ruling for the reasons stated above.

Cheers.


Shinigami
Gallente
Shinra
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:13:00 - [2]
 

signed

Jethro Jerico
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:14:00 - [3]
 

I know it was fun Cool

Why oh why did somebody have to go and use it against BOB??!??

now its banned Sad

Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:18:00 - [4]
 

This can't be a serious opinion, surely?

Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:21:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: The Economist
1: It forces people to use ship maintenance arrays; these were previously woefully underused. [this also gives everyone a very simple way to avoid being bowled....any ship losess to supercap bowling are directly attributable to sheer laziness rather than anything else]


You obviously havent tried to use a ship maintenance array during wartime in a reinforced pos with 300+ in local.

Nicocat
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:23:00 - [6]
 

Joke thread by a BoB alt. Next thread, please.

DiuxDium
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:24:00 - [7]
 

*Snip* - please do not troll the forums. Timmeh

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:28:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: The Economist
1: It forces people to use ship maintenance arrays; these were previously woefully underused. [this also gives everyone a very simple way to avoid being bowled....any ship losess to supercap bowling are directly attributable to sheer laziness rather than anything else]


You obviously havent tried to use a ship maintenance array during wartime in a reinforced pos with 300+ in local.


Sorry, forgot it was necessary to wait till the pos is in reinforced and there are 300 people in local to use a module as intended Rolling Eyes

...and yes this is a serious thread for the reasons stated in the original post.

JitaCitizen 72395
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:33:00 - [9]
 

Why not just make it an exploit for piloted ships, and leave unpiloted ones to use the ship array?

Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:35:00 - [10]
 

it may have "positive" impacts, but it still breaks the intended mechanics of the POS shields.

Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:36:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: The Economist
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: The Economist
1: It forces people to use ship maintenance arrays; these were previously woefully underused. [this also gives everyone a very simple way to avoid being bowled....any ship losess to supercap bowling are directly attributable to sheer laziness rather than anything else]


You obviously havent tried to use a ship maintenance array during wartime in a reinforced pos with 300+ in local.


Sorry, forgot it was necessary to wait till the pos is in reinforced and there are 300 people in local to use a module as intended Rolling Eyes

...and yes this is a serious thread for the reasons stated in the original post.



Well, with a POS in reinfoced and 300+ in local is usually the sort of time people do actually need a ship out of the damn array Rolling Eyes

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Alora Venoda
it may have "positive" impacts, but it still breaks the intended mechanics of the POS shields.


If pos shields were intended to not let anyone inside for even a millisecond then why have they never worked like that since they were introduced into the game?

I always thought of pos shields more like a balloon rather than a wall...I think the analogy is fairly obvious and describes how they have always worked.

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:42:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: The Economist on 30/05/2007 17:41:46
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Originally by: The Economist
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: The Economist
1: It forces people to use ship maintenance arrays; these were previously woefully underused. [this also gives everyone a very simple way to avoid being bowled....any ship losess to supercap bowling are directly attributable to sheer laziness rather than anything else]


You obviously havent tried to use a ship maintenance array during wartime in a reinforced pos with 300+ in local.


Sorry, forgot it was necessary to wait till the pos is in reinforced and there are 300 people in local to use a module as intended Rolling Eyes

...and yes this is a serious thread for the reasons stated in the original post.



Well, with a POS in reinfoced and 300+ in local is usually the sort of time people do actually need a ship out of the damn array Rolling Eyes


Sorry, I misread it as putting ships in he array; however doing anything in a system in that situation is laggy, so doesn't really equate to a valid reason for not using the array.... and further adding to the lag by not having done so and thereby having loads of empty ships sitting the bubble of said pos.


Treelox
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:48:00 - [14]
 

you have your answer now

Originally by: "GM Grimmi"
pos bowling exploit
reported by GM Grimmi | 2007.05.30 16:35:04 | NEW
Greetings,

The so-called "POS Bowling" will from here on be considered an exploit. While it is true that this is not verifiable after the fact by way of logs, GMs are able to go ingame and monitor situations at will, and do it without anyone knowing. If we catch anyone doing this we will take the appropriate action against them. We therefore urge Titan and Mothership pilots to refrain from using their ships to bump ships out of POS forcefields, or risk facing punitive measures for exploiting.

All the best,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master
EVE Online Customer Support

The Economist
Logically Consistent
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Treelox
you have your answer now

Originally by: "GM Grimmi"
pos bowling exploit
reported by GM Grimmi | 2007.05.30 16:35:04 | NEW
Greetings,

The so-called "POS Bowling" will from here on be considered an exploit. While it is true that this is not verifiable after the fact by way of logs, GMs are able to go ingame and monitor situations at will, and do it without anyone knowing. If we catch anyone doing this we will take the appropriate action against them. We therefore urge Titan and Mothership pilots to refrain from using their ships to bump ships out of POS forcefields, or risk facing punitive measures for exploiting.

All the best,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master
EVE Online Customer Support



If you read the original post you should be able to work out that this thread is quite clearly a response to the new item that you have quoted.

Treelox
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:54:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: The Economist
If you read the original post you should be able to work out that this thread is quite clearly a response to the new item that you have quoted.


Yes I had figured that out, but since you didnt see fit to quote this, and since CCP hasnt seen fit to make this a post in their "information portal", I thought I would include it here. For those that hadnt yet noticed the new post in the "Players News Center"

Just think of it as my PSA for the day.


While POS bowling doesnt affect me, since I am an empire hugger, I have always thought that the practice was in poor form. I am glad they have made it an exploit, I just wish they would fix the code that allows it, since as GM Grimmi states, they have no way of checking it against logs. The only way the GM Team can do anything about it, is to catch you in the act.

Derovius Vaden
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:54:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: The Economist
Originally by: Treelox
you have your answer now

Originally by: "GM Grimmi"
pos bowling exploit
reported by GM Grimmi | 2007.05.30 16:35:04 | NEW
Greetings,

The so-called "POS Bowling" will from here on be considered an exploit. While it is true that this is not verifiable after the fact by way of logs, GMs are able to go ingame and monitor situations at will, and do it without anyone knowing. If we catch anyone doing this we will take the appropriate action against them. We therefore urge Titan and Mothership pilots to refrain from using their ships to bump ships out of POS forcefields, or risk facing punitive measures for exploiting.

All the best,

GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master
EVE Online Customer Support



If you read the original post you should be able to work out that this thread is quite clearly a response to the new item that you have quoted.


You sir, have been wtfpwnbbq'ed by Grimmi. Very Happy

Il Reverendo
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.30 17:58:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Derovius Vaden
You sir, have been wtfpwnbbq'ed by Grimmi. Very Happy


You sir, are a cretin. Rolling Eyes

Chowdown
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:00:00 - [19]
 

Bumpy Bumpy will live in my heart for ever, I miss you and hope you return soon. <3

Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:18:00 - [20]
 

What exactly is POS bowling? is it like bumping or something? I heard it is a way to steal ships from inside POS shields, but I am not sure if this is right, and if it is, why not just shoot anyone who turns up in a pod?

Derovius Vaden
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:20:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ethaet
What exactly is POS bowling? is it like bumping or something? I heard it is a way to steal ships from inside POS shields, but I am not sure if this is right, and if it is, why not just shoot anyone who turns up in a pod?


They ram their large capitals into a POS's shield and the collision mechanics bump them to a point where a waiting pod can climb on board and make off with the ship.

Saladin
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:22:00 - [22]
 

If CCP wants to encourage use of Ship Maintenance Array they can do that by making unpiloted ships disappear from space the same way cargo containers do. Allowing the super-cap bourgeoisie to capture/destroy them would probably not be the best solution, if indeed that was their design intent.

Nymos
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:23:00 - [23]
 

generally, i'm in favor of declaring it an exploit, but i won't argue about it because i'm don't really care tbh.

what i dislike a lot tho is the fact that ccp doesn't think through things yet again! there has already been enough talking on the forums when ccp officially made pos bowling not an exploit. now that more than enough damage by questionable official game features has been done, it suddenly becomes an exploit.

malet
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:42:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: The Economist
POS Bowling needs to be re-defined (again) as not being an exploit for two important reasons.

1: It forces people to use ship maintenance arrays; these were previously woefully underused. [this also gives everyone a very simple way to avoid being bowled....any ship losess to supercap bowling are directly attributable to sheer laziness rather than anything else]

2: The more ships there are on a grid, the more lag there is. Previously there was no way whatsoever to counter the massive lag generated at pos's by the countless ships carelessly left in space.[it has often been alleged of people that they leave said ships at pos purely to generate lag.] POS bowling gave the community a way to reduce the lag problems by removing the ships from the grid or forcing the offenders to use ship maintenance arrays for their intended purpose.

In summary, I don't know what provoked yet another policy change on this issue, but please seriously consider reverting to the previous ruling for the reasons stated above.

Cheers.




I agree with this. If people are too lazy to use ship maintainance arrays then they deserve to lose the ships. The game mechanics allow pos bowling adn to be honest this is nothing new so why the big hooharr now. Its no different to leaving your ship in a safe spot to be probed. The game allows you to bounce ships from a pos the same as you can probe safe spotted ships down.

Please CCP come back down to earth. POS Bowling is fun Wink

Dalanoria
Northern Intelligence
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:44:00 - [25]
 

lol, wait...So it was fine until it was used against BOD ?

SPACE BEEZ
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:56:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Dalanoria
lol, wait...So it was fine until it was used against BOD ?


BoD doesnt cheat ok man these allegations have been cleared up.

Phrixus Zephyr
MEK Enterprises
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:59:00 - [27]
 

Whether its good for the game or not, now it's an exploit you Bobbits can stop doing it in Venal now. Especially considering you started doing it after the news item was posted.

Leonard Darwin
Rosewood Productions
Posted - 2007.05.30 19:03:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: SPACE BEEZ
Originally by: Dalanoria
lol, wait...So it was fine until it was used against BOD ?


BoD doesnt cheat ok man these allegations have been cleared up.


Dude, awesome sig Laughing

This clearly should have been labeled an exploit after the first report. Just another case of differences in rulings by GMs.

OP, there may be arguments as to why the ruling should be reverted, but your reasons are silly at best. You'd be better off suggesting that anyone, regardless of alliance is allowed to enter anyone else's POS shield freely and take what they desire. Better yet, just remove the shield altogether. Yeah, just as silly. If the shield is not doing it's job, that of keeping out those who aren't allowed, then bypassing that should be an exploit. I wasn't aware that it finally was declared one, this is good news.

Just get enough people abusing something to get the result you want - trade window exploit, anyone?

PredatorPT
Unbound.
Posted - 2007.05.30 19:04:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: The Economist
I always thought of pos shields more like a balloon rather than a wall...I think the analogy is fairly obvious and describes how they have always worked.


A balloon, you say?

I want you to make an experiment. For it you'll need 1 balloon, a small object that can play the "role" of a frigate, and a larger object, that plays the role of a titan.

1. Put the small object inside the balloon
2. Fill the Balloon with air and seal it. (This is your POS, with a frigate inside the forcefield)
3. Try to push the "frigate" out of the balloon using only the "titan", and without destroying the balloon. (which represents the POS's shields)

If you haven't managed to figure out the result yet, the "shield" would not only be flexible, but also keep the titan from entering the shield completely and keep the frigate inside it.

Ion Flux
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
Posted - 2007.05.30 19:12:00 - [30]
 

Ya know one of the main reason i liked eve was it looked great..played Great
and when i saw pos bowling i was appalled......this one thing just ruined it

Bowling is stupid...ever watched a space movie and seen pos bowling....wait there is 5 deathstars lined up there....Right Han..we should bowl them....ok chewy......come on..this is exploit ...this is stupid..this is lame....lame lame lame and ccp should be ashamed of themselves for loosing control of this game....it justed seemed if they couldnt control it ...it wasnt an exploit.....nothing like sitting under the pos sheilds...try to stay safe and 15 Cap ships come in...i bounce out and get targeted..what fun ..NOT...( ya i know i suck at writing..)

EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT EXPLOIT

Ion


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