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Igus
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:47:00 - [241]
 

The only issue i really had with any of this was the Bob player almost boasting about the ability to contact CCP devs at will.


The rest i really do not doubt was just fluff, but the Bob player trying to justify their direct out of game link about in game topics is just not right.




Trixia Bonsol
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:53:00 - [242]
 

"The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack."
Exclamation
What the hell, you are suing a player organization? I just subscribed to this game less than 1 week ago. What the hell did I just get myself into? What kind of game developers are you??Exclamation

Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:00:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Trixia Bonsol
"The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack."
Exclamation
What the hell, you are suing a player organization? I just subscribed to this game less than 1 week ago. What the hell did I just get myself into? What kind of game developers are you??Exclamation


Well unamed corporation did purposely cause a disruption in CCP's services. Not only was this in violation of the EULA, it also will be seen as a dent in CCP's profit margins. These are 2 very serious occurences due to acts of vandalism. (Not to mention CCP's name was dragged through the mud.)

But if you are new to the game, you needn't worry. As you should have nothing to do with this.

Igus
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:00:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: ^^^
"The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack."




This statement is meaningless it has no grounds and is meant as a scare tactic. I'm sure CCP would miss several thousand players canceling their accounts.

Scarcus
Caldari
Stain of Mind
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:00:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Trixia Bonsol
"The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack."
Exclamation
What the hell, you are suing a player organization? I just subscribed to this game less than 1 week ago. What the hell did I just get myself into? What kind of game developers are you??Exclamation


You better get used to it dude. Pretty pathetic stuff going on.


Shar'Tuk TheHated
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:01:00 - [246]
 

Edited by: Shar''Tuk TheHated on 30/05/2007 05:00:55
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Cute. Really Cute. Congratulations on totally avoiding any of the real issues and trying to place the blame on Goonswarm as malicious in intent.

CCP you're skating perilously close to losing my business.


Please dont tease us and just leave. Next time try not trashing the next game community you join. Oh and dont forget the rest of the Goons that had any part of this rubbish. K thanks bye.

P.S. Thanks for the clearing up the allegations in a timely matter CCP.
P.S.S. BTW they didnt name names but thanks for pointing out who it was to the rest. Feeling Guilty?

WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:01:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: Sentinel Eeex
Arkanon, thank you for the details.

I, for one, want to find out if the (previously alleged) way reporter was sacked was true, or he lied and falsified IRC logs/story? I am sure you keep IRC logs, so you should be able to check timestamps and see if that Admiral whatever did really come to IRC just after the 'incident', and if that IRC log is valid, or falsified.

Evidence presented looks fair, but I have few minor questions:

1. What email client is showing spell/grammar errors while reading email? I presume GM didn't take, by chance a screenshot while writing an email. I know, it's silly detail, but it bugs me.

2. Why couldn't you show us petition date, on petition screen for bumping the dread? We can see petition history for DS1 guy, why couldn't we see petition date for bumping dread issue?

3. Reporter (allegedly) worked for ISD for over a year. Why was he so instantly sacked after petition for 'bumping' a dread? Especially, if his version of the story is true, and you teleport directly to ship and can't choose distance? Seems strange to fire someone just like that, after a mistake he (allegedly) didn't even have influence on.

Thanks.



The blog explains that he had been written up before, so this clearly wasn't the first time somebody complained about him.

Radar Rat
SPECTRE Ops
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:02:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Trixia Bonsol
"The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack."
Exclamation
What the hell, you are suing a player organization? I just subscribed to this game less than 1 week ago. What the hell did I just get myself into? What kind of game developers are you??Exclamation


Just join BoB and you will be safe .. lol

MehTheTrader
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:02:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Imode
If you guys feel you have been done such a great injustice, why don't you just quit and find something else to play?

Why does it seem you guys have made it your goal in game to bring the entire thing crashing down with you?

If you can't have it, then we can't either?

Grow up.

Because some people feel cheated, are you stupid?

EFF ONEF1
Seek N Destory
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:02:00 - [250]
 

Edited by: EFF ONEF1 on 30/05/2007 05:06:46
STILL unanswered questions.

What happened to the petition DS1 filed asking what was going on when sharkbait joined.

Why fire an ISD reporter for "bumping" a dread when he was simply using the warpto tools available to him to get where he needed to report? If that tool warps you in at 1m and he inadvertantly bumped them, why fire? If he was just using the tools CCP gave him to get around the galaxy quicker to report, the petitioner (BoB) was just being a twit and you humored him. It looks like it was written by a 4 year old and im sure the person making the allegations in local told this person (whoever) to submit a petition on the ISD guy well after the fact, just so you could say you had one.

Why are CCP members being contacted via MSN?

Where is your wall between your play and work accounts? As i suspect they are one and the same. And an "IA" department will never be able to get around that.

All you have proven here is a petition was filed on the POS, nothing else. That ISD petition is BS and you had a knee-jerk reaction without investigating it. Im sure your avatar logs would have shown what command he entered just before the "bump". And if you dont have logs that show that kind of information, you are about 8 years behind the curve cuz EQ has them.

Jonas Vance
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:02:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: WhitePhantom
Originally by: Sentinel Eeex
Arkanon, thank you for the details.

I, for one, want to find out if the (previously alleged) way reporter was sacked was true, or he lied and falsified IRC logs/story? I am sure you keep IRC logs, so you should be able to check timestamps and see if that Admiral whatever did really come to IRC just after the 'incident', and if that IRC log is valid, or falsified.

Evidence presented looks fair, but I have few minor questions:

1. What email client is showing spell/grammar errors while reading email? I presume GM didn't take, by chance a screenshot while writing an email. I know, it's silly detail, but it bugs me.

2. Why couldn't you show us petition date, on petition screen for bumping the dread? We can see petition history for DS1 guy, why couldn't we see petition date for bumping dread issue?

3. Reporter (allegedly) worked for ISD for over a year. Why was he so instantly sacked after petition for 'bumping' a dread? Especially, if his version of the story is true, and you teleport directly to ship and can't choose distance? Seems strange to fire someone just like that, after a mistake he (allegedly) didn't even have influence on.

Thanks.



The blog explains that he had been written up before, so this clearly wasn't the first time somebody complained about him.


Where's the proof that he was written up before.

Lala Ru
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:02:00 - [252]
 

I'd like the Dev's MSN accounts so I can message them whenever I see a bug. Plus if we're friends, perhaps they won't sue me.

Metal Face
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:03:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Daveydweeb
Originally by: Sevnn
Quote:
CCP staff is generally easy to reach, we have designated IRC channels, we read the forums, and we host open developer chats, to name but a few avenues players can use to contact us when needed.


Can we get a full list of CCP staff MSN accounts? If BoB members have this channel available to them (as fully admitted by a BoB director) then all EVE players should have this same channel. Stop avoiding this issue and address it. Or you could just continue to sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away.


I'd be happy just to see CCP acknowledge the issue, but judging by Arkanon's "conclusion", I see no reason to expect even that. This is a very major issue, and it needs to be addressed as soon as possible.


I need to buddy up with the devs already. Come on BoB, post those screen names.

DeathGrip
Amarr
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:05:00 - [254]
 

Good Job CCP...

Hopefully BoB will take Goon space and between that and this Goons will leave. I don't think it would hurt many feelings.

MissileRus
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:05:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: MissileRus on 30/05/2007 05:06:58
and some actions by CCP to show that this is not to be done and that it isnt tollerated for players to try bring down CCPs reputation below that of SOE's without propper alligators...sions.... would be nice.

CCP did very good defending their reputation Wink
only punishments and "contacts networks" with possebility of faul play stuff to be dealt with imo.
also thats the more "serious" thing in all this for me atleast..

and i want someone hanged now Twisted Evil

and i appoliogize to bob.. well kinda.. consider that you get it now but you realy get it after the "contact network" stuff is dealt with... Embarassed lol

Shar'Tuk TheHated
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:05:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Jonas Vance
Well, this cuts it for me. I'm done with this BS. The amount of bias in that post and lack of real information is sickening. It's very obvious what is being done here. 2 1/2 years I have played this game, and now I'm done.

Now off to go trash everything.


Can i have your stuff? Very Happy
/me waves bye.

MehTheTrader
University of Caille
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:05:00 - [257]
 

metal face your sig is gross dude, sig nerf..

Jonas Vance
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:06:00 - [258]
 

Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated
Originally by: Jonas Vance
Well, this cuts it for me. I'm done with this BS. The amount of bias in that post and lack of real information is sickening. It's very obvious what is being done here. 2 1/2 years I have played this game, and now I'm done.

Now off to go trash everything.


Can i have your stuff? Very Happy
/me waves bye.


Sorry, trashed it already. Too late =D

/me flips middle finger

Shar'Tuk TheHated
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:07:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
Edited by: Farrellus Cameron on 30/05/2007 02:24:58
I was not too concerned about the accusations because no one making them had any proof that anything nefarious went on.

Of course for all the tinfoilers out there they don't need proof, it's enough that someone made an accusation and they automatically assume it's true. When will you all realize that Dianabolic says the things he says to mess with your minds? You all play into way too easily.

Anyways, good job in responding thoroughly. Of course most of the forum warriors won't be content until you release a multi-volume account on par with the Warren Commission Report, but don't let them get you down. The rest of us love you.

To the haters: If you don't like the game, LEAVE. It's that simple.

P.S. Good luck with the legal battles. I hope you nail them to the wall.

I approve of this message.
/me signedCool

Malloc Memrel
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:09:00 - [260]
 

Wow. I think I'll post this until I can find words.

Originally by: CCP Arkanon
The volume and timing of these near-simultaneous references is no coincidence: we were the target of a carefully constructed and well-timed social engineering effort by one of the largest player groups in our community. The intention? To undermine EVE Online and the credibility of CCP Games.

More specifically, the objective of this scheme was to permanently paint CCP as a biased and corrupt company that favors a select group of players over the rest of our community. In this particular case, instead of receiving notification of a possible problem and sufficient time to examine and address it, we faced a coordinated and hostile attack executed on our forums, Digg, Wikipedia, Slashdot, and other outlets at the beginning of a three-day weekend. We believe this speaks volumes of the intention of the person(s) responsible for orchestrating this scheme. Verification of this can be readily found on the forums of the people responsible—or at least could, the last time we looked.

Claims that the goal of this effort was to expose corruption within the company cannot be taken seriously. They are simply a smokescreen intended to mobilize and use the EVE community against CCP. There is no evidence to support the claim of information sent to CCP concerning internal corruption and wrongdoings on the part of our employees is being systematically suppressed.

The fact that this attack took place over a holiday weekend was especially revealing of motive, which we believe was specifically by design to ensure that CCP would not be able to react as fast and efficiently as we would under normal circumstances. The allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack.



I cannot fathom how the above paragraphs ever made it out under an official capacity. Your response to the spamming of allegations of misconduct, brought about by your censoring of the initial complaint, brought about by your own poor customer service, is to accuse 4000 of your own players of sabotage? And furthermore, that your legal team will be looking into it?

Kieron asked for constructive dialogue, so here's my advice: Threatening legal action against your own players would be the single most damaging thing you could do to your company at this juncture. Sure, the current allegations might have gotten you on Slashdot, Kotaku, and other "entertainment" news sites, but if you actually bring legal resources to bear on your playerbase, it will be everywhere. Gamasutra, GamePolitics, GameDev.net, basically anywhere and everywhere game developers hang out in cyberspace. At that point, win or lose, CCP will be an island, no one else will want to even touch you for fear of the stink of corruption rubbing off on them. It won't matter if said stink was real or fabricated, it will be there and it will linger.

To my friends who work in the US branch of CCP: Get out NOW. I don't want your careers stunted by CCP's actions giving your future resume's an express route to the dustbin. I know some of you have worked hard to get here, and I know you're not involved with this mess, but the stink of corruption will permeate the entire company, soaking into you whether justified or not.

As for CCP as a whole, well, I'll say you've earned a customer for life. Far from inspiring disgust and a desire to leave, as apparently many others have felt, I am instead filled with a sense of awe and see an educational opportunity here. If ever I want to know how not to handle a customer service issue, I can always log on to eve, see how CCP handles it, and do the opposite, confident that I will at least be doing something right by not handling things the way CCP is.

Finally, to anyone leaving EVE- Might I reccomend WoW?

Shar'Tuk TheHated
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:10:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Jonas Vance
Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated
Originally by: Jonas Vance
Well, this cuts it for me. I'm done with this BS. The amount of bias in that post and lack of real information is sickening. It's very obvious what is being done here. 2 1/2 years I have played this game, and now I'm done.

Now off to go trash everything.


Can i have your stuff? Very Happy
/me waves bye.


Sorry, trashed it already. Too late =D

/me flips middle finger


Meh..didnt want it anyhow. Razz

Shar'Tuk TheHated
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:16:00 - [262]
 

Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Cute. Really Cute. Congratulations on totally avoiding any of the real issues and trying to place the blame on Goonswarm as malicious in intent.

CCP you're skating perilously close to losing my business.


Please let us know what we can do to push them close enough to get rid of you.


Actually its **** like this that makes me a contrary ******* who wants to stay, just to **** with jackasses like yourself.

CCP indulging in character assassination vs their player base strikes me as monumentally stupid, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that its the one section of the game fighting the most serious action against the alliance that has all the tinfoil hattery directed at them, by many more people than just the Swarm.


1st BOLD thanks for pointing out your true nature.
2nd BOLD Goon alts dont count.

Jessica Sartuenski
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:16:00 - [263]
 

people are really going to want to play eve when a misaction ingame could lead to financial downfall irl

great work guys, top notch investigation by a top notch internal affairs (lol) crew

out of curiosity whats arkanon's msn

Andrus Delai
M. Corp Engineering
Daisho Syndicate
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:18:00 - [264]
 

Arkanon,

Thanks for the post, but your investigation is incomplete and incorrect.

Item #1
Nothing in the Open Letter, nor any post from Goonfleet accused the GM of spying. They were just asking why it happened and their questions were being ignored. In the confusion you are atributing statements to them that they did not make.

In addition, it was your posting of initial findings that lead others to speculate that the GM could have been spying. You stated that the GM joined the Corp to fix a bugged POS. DS1 stated that the only petition that they had outstanding regarded BPOs.

No mention of the DS1 petition asking why Sharkbait joined DS1 included in your report. Did it exist or not? Was it closed without response? Do the logs show DS1 attempting to contact Sharkbait ingame without response? Were any forum posts regarding this issue deleted from the forums?


Item #2
Your conclusion is erroneous. No claim that any event was rigged to benefit a player, corporation, or alliance was in the Open Letter. Just that the outcome of the events were predetermined. Again, you have taken what others have said and attributed it to GF.

Based on your comments as well as Kieron's it is clear that the outcome of events are predetermined which was the allegation. Why should players bother to participate if their actions won't affect the event? You can do better than that.

Item #3
You posted a petition against the ISD reporter which shows that there was another complaint against him. Was this for the same incident? How many complaints against this reporter were there? Does the teleport command given to ISD reporters place their ship perilously close to their target? If so, then CCP bears some of the responsibility for any bumping that occurs.

You completely neglected to address the issue that BoB contacted CCP via MSN and got an immediate response. This is perhaps the most important issue raised. Players should not use personal contacts to get special treatment.

About the Accusations and Accusers
Were prior communications attempts with CCP ignored? Were you contacted about these allegations?

It does not take a coordinated effort to post two thousand posts on internet sites. We're talking about gamers. Colleges are out for the Summer. It's a weekend. Players are passionate about EVE.

What you fail to grasp is that there are a large number of players who no longer trust CCP at their word. You lost the luxury of that when CCP was not truthful to the players earlier this year. It was that lack of trust that fueled the postings. If this was a concerted effort, then the number of posts on the other sites would have easily been 5,000+ on each site.

Internal Affairs and CCP
Your department may be doing a lot of good, but work that the players do not see will do nothing to restore their trust. You not only need to do the work, but you need the players to see you doing the work. If you continue to stay in the background, incidents such as these will continue.

CCP Employees and EVE Online
As a programmer, I completely reject the notion that a developer needs to use the software that he creates. That may be how you feel, but it has no basis in fact. The number of players that believe that CCP should be completely banned from the game is small, but the number who feel that there should be limitations on employee participation is much higher. Playing the game is one thing, directing players in game is quite different.

Are there any limitations on employee participation in EVE? CCP never replied to any of the concerns posted on the forums in regards to T20 being in charge of BoB's Capital Fleet, so the impression is that there are no such limits and that T20 was just one of many employess driving alliances in EVE.

Conclusion to follow...

Tractormech
Caldari
Stones Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:19:00 - [265]
 

They are perfectly justified threatening legal reprecussions. And I hope they manage to sue the hell out of em. Though odds are pretty low it will never happen. What happened basically came to slander and/or libel. CCP may be a game, but its still a business just like any other office downtown. It wouldn't be acceptable there and its not acceptable here.

This was an obvious orchestration by the get-go. One person comes up with a poorly worded letter with huge holes in it, and the whole forums jump the bandwagon.

They explained more than they needed to. Sorry but $15 a month doesn't allow you to tell them what to do. They provide the game, not answer to your beck and call. Again try doing that to any other company.

Malachon Draco
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:20:00 - [266]
 

Nice blog Arkanon.

Too bad you still have 2 issues:

1. A lot of players don't believe a word you say, wonder how that happened.

2. BoB in the 170 page thread admits to contacting you directly, and somehow being entitled to it due to being in the game 4 years. You still gotta either explain that one or list us the MSN names of your devs I guess.


Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:20:00 - [267]
 

This stuck out at me:

Originally by: CCP Arkanon

More specifically, the objective of this scheme was to permanently paint CCP as a biased and corrupt company that favors a select group of players over the rest of our community. In this particular case, instead of receiving notification of a possible problem and sufficient time to examine and address it, we faced a coordinated and hostile attack executed on our forums, Digg, Wikipedia, Slashdot, and other outlets at the beginning of a three-day weekend. We believe this speaks volumes of the intention of the person(s) responsible for orchestrating this scheme. Verification of this can be readily found on the forums of the people responsible—or at least could, the last time we looked.


Emphasis mine.

Arkanon, Why is CCP spying on Goonfleet?

Angelus Damelon
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:20:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Ikthorn Balhar
I must say that the tone used by Arkannon in the last few paragraphs of his log was somewhat uncalled for. From what was said in the forums, it seems there were a number of characters banned when they started posting threads linking to the 'open letter', which arguably might not be the best way to deal with customer inquiries.

We all know what happened to the last person(s) that brought the t20 incident to light; a regrettable incident that the community at large only found out about 6 months after it had occurred (by your own admission).

Arkannon (and yourself) should understand that even to this day, there are a number of people that found the resolution to the prior incident somewhat 'lacking', and your attitude of "if you don't like it, **** off and go someplace else" is somewhat patronizing.
EvE is indeed a great game, but as good as it might be, any perception of favoritism and the somewhat abrasive manner in which complaints are dealt with are by far the biggest turn-offs for any future players, which you guys need if you are to stay in business.


Good post.

This response by CCP has shown nothing but a lack of professionalism.

None of the issues are addressed thoroughly enough to counter anyone who believes in the BoB-CCP conspiracy. Frankly, I cannot imagine how CCP could prove that's not true; even if they disclosed the in-game accounts of all devs and GMs, people would probably believe they held some accounts back. Don't try to prove this, you can't.

What fuels the conspiracy, and what concerns many non-conspiracy customers, is CCP's consistent inconsistency -- the continued lack of professionalism. And the response of Arkanon's blog, kieron's OP, and GM Kutsu in-game all illustrate a MASSIVE lack of professionalism.

The most thoroughly addressed issue was the DS1 incident -- an incident in which even many DS1 players have stated they did not suspect malicious behavior on Sharkbait's part. The primary issue was HOW it was handled. DS1 was not informed why Sharkbait was joining their corp at any step -- in advance, during, or after, not even after filing a petition. All that has been done to address this is the addition of a policy for corporations to be informed in the future, with a backhanded comment thrown in, essentially saying "Wow, we can't believe you guys whined about this." Excellent treatment of your customers, right there.

The RP and ISD incidents were addressed with little proof; for those of us who were anticipating an actual investigation and disclosure of the investigation, they do nothing but disappoint.

Diabolic's admission that some players communicate on MSN with CCP has not been addressed whatsoever. The issue of a GM openly spewing his opinions of this controversy in Jita local, while other players were being gagged for doing the same -- and then closing a petition about his own behavior -- has not been addressed whatsoever.

And the fact is, these little issues are being addressed condescendingly. They are being taken singularly, as though they are single and isolated. But that is not the concern many players have. The concern many players have is with the accumulated effect -- the accumulation of MANY events, of which these are just a few new entries, display gross incompetence on the part of CCP and their GM team. If CCP was the cleanest, least corrupt company on the planet, the way the devs and the GMs have behaved in response to various allegations and issues would be laughably bad.

Eve is a game of great concept, with terrible execution and a complete lack of professionalism. This is what has many concerned, and what CCP has not remotely addressed.

Alias11
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:21:00 - [269]
 

Originally by: Farrellus Cameron
Edited by: Farrellus Cameron on 30/05/2007 02:24:58
I was not too concerned about the accusations because no one making them had any proof that anything nefarious went on.

Of course for all the tinfoilers out there they don't need proof, it's enough that someone made an accusation and they automatically assume it's true. When will you all realize that Dianabolic says the things he says to mess with your minds? You all play into way too easily.

Anyways, good job in responding thoroughly. Of course most of the forum warriors won't be content until you release a multi-volume account on par with the Warren Commission Report, but don't let them get you down. The rest of us love you.

To the haters: If you don't like the game, LEAVE. It's that simple.

P.S. Good luck with the legal battles. I hope you nail them to the wall.


Implicit Trust of Authority? Check.
A new flavor of halfassed damage control? Check.
CCP Backscratching? Check.
False Dichotomy? Check.
Supporting Legal Action against players? Check.

This post, ladies and gentlemen, is art.

Shar'Tuk TheHated
Posted - 2007.05.30 05:21:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: George Costanza
Not that you care but I have cancelled my account, you still have your head...in the sand

Just the spiteful tone in your 'reply' shows the level of contempt that you have for your customer base


*snip* Don't troll. -Rauth

Thanks again.Very Happy


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