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Bilfiz
Posted - 2004.01.09 18:46:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Bilfiz on 09/01/2004 18:54:25
Just trying to see if im the only one ****ed about all the bad ideas and changes to the microwarp drive and the after burners.
The change to the cap on the MWD'S and AB need to be retuned buy like 75% less cap needed to power i would like to run at 2 mins of MWD befor my cap is gone (in a BS) that is.
but now im lucky to get 40 sec of MWD then im dead in space who came up with this idea really needs to be shot.

i know i will gets lots of flames but who cares
is ccp trying to make all the players leave all i see on the borad is neg. chat i guess ccp does not care.

PLEASE ONLY MWD AND AB INFO HERE WHAT U THINK WOULD BE BETTER THEN WHAT IS IN PLACE NOW

Rigger
Posted - 2004.01.09 21:39:00 - [2]
 

i agree the new changes have made game much harder. What was the reason for this no one asked for it. i dont mind change but this is totaly out of line. the caps on the drives need to be a lot less so it will be usefull
new setting should be in line like this
Frig 12 cap
cruiser 75 cap
battle ship 250 cap

this will work much better. but this will still suck but this change will make all players happy unlike now, no one likes the MWD and AB changes CHANGE TOOMB

GrendelPrime
Perpetual Dawn
Fimbulwinter
Posted - 2004.01.09 21:42:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: GrendelPrime on 09/01/2004 21:56:10
The MWD cap changes, I can live with... However I do agree that the changes to AB's seem to be a bit extreme to me, and would love to see those toned down a bit. I didn't see a real problem with the way AB's worked before, I did find it strange that the same AB on a frigate worked on a battleship as well, but I could live with it. Maybe if they had tiered fittings based on ship size: ie... Frigate sized LiF's, Cruiser Sized LiF's, and Battleship Sized LiF's ?? (along with reduced fitting requirements) That way everyone could still enjoy the best named Afterburner, just its now the "best" in relation to there ship class. (using LiF's as example only, feel free to sub in afterburner of your choice) Smile

Pinkoir
Caldari
A.W.M
Posted - 2004.01.09 22:07:00 - [4]
 

I like the MWD and AB changes...why?

For the same reason that CCP implimented them...because they make the game harder. The game pre-castor was effectively maxxed by a lot of people. All NPC swarms easily dealt with, no new ship options left to explore etc.

How can CCP possibly bring out Tech 2 equipment in an environment where everybody can already do whatever they please? It would destroy the game. So they make everything hard again like it was back when we only had frigates. They make us slow again and make swarms that can kick the mother-lovin' tar out of a lone BS. Now when we get Tech 2 we can feel like we are improving. Remember how good it felt when you first got ABs and felt true speed? That's what they want to make us feel again when we get our hands on Tech2.

Remember, we've been playing the extended bate all this time...the way things were is not how CCP ever intended them to be in the long term. We and the game are ramping up together and the steady state shouldn't be expected any time soon so get ready for more "nerfs".

"Go to it CCP" is what I say. If I wanted a game where I didn't have to adapt to changing circumstance I'd play solitaire.

-Pinkoir

Domaru
Viziam
Posted - 2004.01.09 22:12:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Domaru on 09/01/2004 22:14:12
I don't mind the changes either. My only problem is the speed of getting around. Now, before you say "those are the same thing", they are not. If the changes at the gate (warp distance) and some of the other tedious docking crap was shortened that would improvvel overall travel time while keeping the nerf in place for the ABs and MWD. the same AB and MWF should not drive a little frig and at the same time fit a titan and move it just as well. just not realistic, you have been spoiled. Move on.

KrapYl
Minmatar
Posted - 2004.01.10 02:32:00 - [6]
 

i fly an armageddon from time to time...

and when i pay 650 cap, to NOT hit 500m/s... im starting to NOT fit the module....

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2004.01.10 06:30:00 - [7]
 

It's not the speed nerf of them that bothers me so much as the high cap usage. It's just a little TOO nerfed, IMHO. But I'll live. Rolling Eyes


Rymar Vortox
Minmatar
Mix Master
Posted - 2004.01.10 06:40:00 - [8]
 

Both ab and mwd require too much power and use up too much cap. It takes all my hoarder's cap to get move 30km with 2 ab powered by 2 10% reactor controls.

Indys are supposed to be able to fit cruiser sized mwd. How the hell can a 150MW mwd fit on an indy when their power can't even get that high with the best skill and mods?

Vlad Damian
Caldari
Posted - 2004.01.10 07:27:00 - [9]
 

I have to say that travel times are one of the most frustrating things in EVE (takes the most fun out of the game.) I do like the scale of the game but... Confused

Well, it's because of the scale of the game that I trained all of my navigation skills to 5. I used to be able to fit 5 cargo expanders and 5 AB's to get my IteV to an even 520 m/s (with a long acceleration period.) I could run the AB's indefinately because I spent all the time training the skills so the AB's didn't cost enough cap to drain it down all the way.

Now, with Castor, I can only fit 2 AB's to the IteV (with my 5 expanders) and I can only get it up to 170 m/s. It also drains the cap down to nothing after a few km Crying or Very sad

I feel sorry for all those out there who haven't maxed their nav skills... if this is how crummy it is with the skills, I don't want to even imagine trying to operate in the game without them.

All I ask is that the requirements of the AB's be re-evaluated. I had many delivery contracts that I can no longer fill because it simply takes too much time to get from point A to point B now.

(By the way: The extra cargo space is wonderful... but in conjunction with the incredible speed reduction I've become a slower, more vulnerable target, and with much more to lose Confused )

Dukath
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.01.10 12:09:00 - [10]
 

did you train up your navigation skills?

There is one that increases the speed boost for MWD and afterburner, there are ones that reduce cap usage.

I got those on at least lvl 3 and can't say i have any problems with the cap usages

ManniXXX
Minmatar
GYCO Enterprises
Posted - 2004.01.10 15:26:00 - [11]
 

Train Navigation and Accel Control to high levels, only i hear ppl say accel control has no effect since castor.

Gess
Plutonian Navy
Posted - 2004.01.10 17:24:00 - [12]
 

Well, I did waste my time on training the nav skill to lvl5 and accel control to lvl4. It's no use, the AB's still suck way too much cap and don't give a decent speed, especially on an indy where I now only can fit 2 ABs instead of 4. I'm definitely NOT gonna accept that change. Either they change it to the better or i'll get so bored with the long travel times that I will leave the game. It's up to you CCP.

Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
Posted - 2004.01.10 18:40:00 - [13]
 

Quote:
Well, I did waste my time on training the nav skill to lvl5 and accel control to lvl4. It's no use, the AB's still suck way too much cap and don't give a decent speed, especially on an indy where I now only can fit 2 ABs instead of 4. I'm definitely NOT gonna accept that change. Either they change it to the better or i'll get so bored with the long travel times that I will leave the game. It's up to you CCP.


Well, buy buy!

BAttleships should be slow! Period. No matter how much you put on them.

Industrials should be slow! Peroid. No matter how much you put on them.

And finally thay ARE. I really fail to see the problem.

Cap use should be so high that you cant use the darn things all the time. If that could be done why didn't the ships just fly that speed as standard?

Get a grip and stop whining. The game is better for the change...

Derya
XenTech
Posted - 2004.01.10 18:45:00 - [14]
 

OK, let's see, I'm a dedicated hauling alt. I fly the Iteron V, of course. I have the following lv 5 skills:
Gallente Industrial (obviously)
Engineering
Navigation
Spaceship Command
Evasive Maneuvering
Acceleration Control
Energy Systems Operation

Also have High Speed Maneuvering almost to level 4.

Even with all these critical navigation skills MAXED out, I can only do 302 m/s (which I can NOT sustain) with 23,000 cargo space (5 expanders).

No, I'm not happy at all. Confused


Gess
Plutonian Navy
Posted - 2004.01.10 18:56:00 - [15]
 

Quote:


Well, buy buy!

BAttleships should be slow! Period. No matter how much you put on them.

Industrials should be slow! Peroid. No matter how much you put on them.

And finally thay ARE. I really fail to see the problem.

Cap use should be so high that you cant use the darn things all the time. If that could be done why didn't the ships just fly that speed as standard?

Get a grip and stop whining. The game is better for the change...


I feel pity for you. You seem to have the time to play eve 24/7. I don't due to real life.

Oh yes, and everybody who complains about something is a whiner, i've just been waiting for that idiot sentence to come up. Ain't there free speech in your country? I bet you'd love everyone to shut up who doesn't agree with you.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.01.10 20:27:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 10/01/2004 20:31:01

"Train Navigation and Accel Control to high levels, only i hear ppl say accel control has no effect since castor."

Acceleration Control works, just doesn't give as much boost as it used to.

Two adjustments would be nice to the current state of things:

* afterburners are somewhat over-nerfed. I don't bother with them anymore because for their grid and cap requirements they offer too little in return.

* ships should have the weight of cargo included in their total mass, while having their own mass reduced. It makes no sense right now to have industrial crawl like pregnant cow no matter if it's empty or filled to the brink with rocks. They should be moving quite fast when empty instead, and at their current 'speed' with full load. o.o

Gess
Plutonian Navy
Posted - 2004.01.10 20:42:00 - [17]
 

very well said j0sephine. this idea is great!

DHU InMe
Gallente
Corsairs Inc.
The Spire Collective
Posted - 2004.01.10 21:40:00 - [18]
 

What about creating a af&mwd category for Industrial, after all Industrial and Cruiser are 2 very different class of ship. one ofr fight, another for hauling.

25 mw MicroWard Drive
25 mw AfterBurner

Hauler, even empty, are a lot MORE BIG and wheigh more than cruiser. It just cheap logic...

Hauler atm are almost weaker than frigates.

Carmencita
Posted - 2004.01.10 21:50:00 - [19]
 

Anyone else try fitting 10MN ABs to a frigate and 100MN ABs to a cruiser? Works fine for me with speeds approaching 1000m/s. Not quite MWD speed, but anyone chasing me with an MWD will lose too much cap before they catch me while I am comfortably within my cap recharge rate.

Balmer
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2004.01.11 06:16:00 - [20]
 

The speed nerfing is acceptable, though admittedly disliked, but the cap usage is way too high. No one wants to use a 100mn on their bs anymore.

Alumin nation
Posted - 2004.01.11 20:48:00 - [21]
 

If prior to Castor Eve had been maxed out, then it is disappointing that in order to give players further depth and breadth CCP have to nerf everyone back to the point when they first stared playing. People who play Eve pay for what is suppose to be a rich rewarding experience. How much money are CCP making from us all?? It's not difficult to see that the money is flooding in. So why can't they spend some time actually adding new content to the game??? Nerfing all the players, changing a few attributes to items and calling them Tech 2 is a very poor way to try and increase the longevity of the game. I am very disappointed. This game has a good engine but it is one of the most boring I have ever played. Many of my corp mates and I have spent days and days mining to get the minerals for BS, then we lose half of them on the say Castor is released becuase of the huge amount npc are boosted and players nerfed. If CCP want to do anything to make this game remotely fun they should introduce automated mining. There have been rumours of refining vessels and new ships for months but none have materialised. All I can say is CCP you score less that 2 out of 10 from me.

Belzavior
Posted - 2004.01.12 01:24:00 - [22]
 

Things get nurfed, welcome to the world of mmporgs.

It made no sense before, and now people whine because they have to sacrifice something to get speed.

Juan Andalusian
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2004.01.12 08:18:00 - [23]
 

The fact that only Indies use ABs answers your question.

Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
Posted - 2004.01.12 10:23:00 - [24]
 

Quote:
OK, let's see, I'm a dedicated hauling alt. I fly the Iteron V, of course. I have the following lv 5 skills:
Gallente Industrial (obviously)
Engineering
Navigation
Spaceship Command
Evasive Maneuvering
Acceleration Control
Energy Systems Operation

Also have High Speed Maneuvering almost to level 4.

Even with all these critical navigation skills MAXED out, I can only do 302 m/s (which I can NOT sustain) with 23,000 cargo space (5 expanders).

No, I'm not happy at all. Confused




Well, DUH!

With 5 Cargo Expanders you SHOULD be slow as hell. Thats called balance. Sacrifice your cargo for some overburner thingies.

This is true whining at its worst.
Laughing

SpeedoMan
Caldari
Posted - 2004.01.12 20:46:00 - [25]
 

they take too much power, too much cap, and the increase in MW requirements as you go up in AB/MWD size is a bit too much as well. Sure you're meant to be a bit nerfed on other equipment if you equip an MWD, ie - rigged for speed and nothing else, but not LITERALLY nothing else.

On frigates, 40cap for 11 seconds of MWD is a joke. WAY too much. Lower it, maybe 30cap, 20 looks great to me, imo. And the character i've been testing out with has all the Nav skills at L3 - L4. Good skills. Plus the cap penalty for MWD are way too steep on frigs, relative to other ship classes. This leaves only enogh cap for 2 activations of the MWD, in some cases... that's NOTHING. That's 22 seconds.... which gets you nowhere, and it doesn't even get you nowhere fast ;) :P

On the 10MN and 100MN mwd and ab's, it's ridiculous how LONG they take to get a ship up to speed. If you're going to tweak thrust to fit certain ship classes, then tweak it right for crying out loud. It still takes 2-3 activations of an MWD, at least, to get up to the full speed. Not acceptable for requiring that much cap and grid. Not acceptable for nerfing a ship's sheild and cap by 50%.

Methesda
Posted - 2004.01.13 03:33:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Methesda on 13/01/2004 03:34:05
Personally i think the changes do reflect a certain kind of realism in the game. For fighters i can see the point, but for indies...

I don't mind crawling along at 100m/s with 20,000m3 cargo space, but now there doesn't seem to be a market order that is guaranteed to fill the cargo hold at a price close to the one you can see on the market info screen.

Previously what would take me three round trips, i can accomplish in one... which IS worth crawling at 100m/s. However, now the trade market is filled with sell orders of low quantities, with ever graduating prices, the only way to make a decent profit is to spread the buying over a number of systems, so in the end i am having to travel all over the place at just to fill my cargo hold...

In short, I'm ok with the AB and MWD changes per se, but indies are really frustrating to use on the market!Confused

Cirle
Posted - 2004.01.13 09:42:00 - [27]
 

Quote:
Quote:
OK, let's see, I'm a dedicated hauling alt. I fly the Iteron V, of course. I have the following lv 5 skills:
Gallente Industrial (obviously)
Engineering
Navigation
Spaceship Command
Evasive Maneuvering
Acceleration Control
Energy Systems Operation

Also have High Speed Maneuvering almost to level 4.

Even with all these critical navigation skills MAXED out, I can only do 302 m/s (which I can NOT sustain) with 23,000 cargo space (5 expanders).

No, I'm not happy at all. Confused




Well, DUH!

With 5 Cargo Expanders you SHOULD be slow as hell. Thats called balance. Sacrifice your cargo for some overburner thingies.

This is true whining at its worst.
Laughing


... and with 4 nanos ona Badger II, okay skills (3/4), with a cargo of five thousand, and two ABs (which is all that can be fitted), 300m/s or so maximum is acceptable?

Cirle

Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
Posted - 2004.01.13 13:38:00 - [28]
 

Quote:
... and with 4 nanos ona Badger II, okay skills (3/4), with a cargo of five thousand, and two ABs (which is all that can be fitted), 300m/s or so maximum is acceptable?

Cirle


Yeah. Sounds about right. I do 400 m/s in my Bestower. 2 AB's and four overdrives. 3000 cargo.

Hell thats pretty good for an Industrial. As said. They SHOULD be slow.

LargeNuts
Posted - 2004.01.13 13:39:00 - [29]
 

New MWD changes make me wish there was another gome to go to. Worst nerf ever. SUX!

Arthur Eld
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2004.01.13 14:51:00 - [30]
 

My only problem is that NPC pirates have infinite cap and can chase you down forever with thier mwd's while your cap is drained in under a minute. Confused



 

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