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Jadiin
Mindstar Technology
The Kano Organisation
Posted - 2007.05.28 13:53:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Dear whiners,
Excuse the language, but frankly all this garbage just irritates the sh*t out of me. I love Eve, and if you don't, just frack off! There is no Big Brother, no hidden agenda, no shadow government, they are NOT out to get you! You're not that important, and i'm truly sorry you think you are.

Let's just give it a rest, huh people?
_


What he said

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2007.05.28 13:54:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: CCP kieron
In short, it simply gives CCP the option of deciding which direction to move EVE’s Prime Fiction at the end of the arc...


Yes, and? That is nothing new Kieron!

That was not the question. Please stay to the topic and DON'T EVADE QUESTIONS!

The question was: Did the events favour any special groups? Did any groups get advantages, especially since it is so easy to get advantages due to the open endedness of the events? Were some events designed to give advantages/disadvantages to some groups? Did some player know ahead of the remaining playerbase of those events and did they get unfair advantages due to that? And and and...

Again CCP's answers are not even worth the words in them because they give 'answers' to questions no one asked and answers nothing about the question asked! This casts more and more shadows onto everything.

Hugo Maxum
No Angels Here
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:03:00 - [183]
 

I am still more worried about the poor bugger that got banned. Someone in bob msn's a dev and he is banned? Where is the justice in that. Is his 14.99 a month more important than anyone elses?

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:04:00 - [184]
 

I think the word "rigged" is not the right one for whats happening during an Event.
I DO agree that players should be able to change or alter the course of the story BUT
there is a few things that makes that impossible in the long run.

- Time
- Limited People creating and working on the story inside CCP

I would absolutely LOVE if it could all be driven by players, the whole of EVE, but it simply cant.
Its not realiable enough in the long run. Not at this point in time.

Example:
There is rumble in the Amarr empire ranks, someone wants to take over No.1 spot as despot.
If this was completely player driven some guy who is really into all this makes it there
through a series of events such as fights, assinations, story telling, speaches and votes.
Good stuff! He now runs the Amarr empire, he ALONE decides what will happen, what ALL players
that RP for Amarr will do and where the Empire should go. THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!

Two huge flaws though:
1. Would all that RP follow this man blindely? Follow every whim? No matter how insaine it may be?
2. What happens when that player suddenly stops playing? No notice or anything?
2b. What happens if the player scams the whole thing?

I'm sure one can argue about this back forth for ages though. Its just an example.

With CCP's limited resources of people having the time and the will to run these things I would
say it is a MUST that they controll the outcome of events. Without that it would be chaos rather soon.

Is that 100% fair? No. Probably not but thats the way it is. Even if an event doesnt go "your way"
what do you think about the idea of You taking that result and building on it? Build it into your RP.
Lets say you lost a fight Matar vs Amarr just for ease of explanation.
You lost. It may have looked shady but you lost. ****ty isnt it.

After that is said and done, WAR DEC SOMEONE THAT WAS IN THAT FIGHT ON THE OTHER SIDE! Or something.
Go out, tell them that "The slaves saw your pathetic escuse of a corp having dealings with the insects
of Amarr and becaus of that their blood shall rain from the sky for eternity!" (2 weeks or so).

"But but" you say? I agree. MAYBE, somewhere down the line, this game and its Factions will be player
dominated and controlled but it has to happen slowly, very slowly, to be good.
Factional warfare is part of that idea imho.

However, on the topic at hand. As I said, the events today has to be run like they are.
The ISSUE HERE IS IF ISD/Dev/GM/somebody gave out information, on REQUEST, to a player or corp so that
that player or corp new what side to "bet on". That is where we have a problem.
Because as long as no one outside the Event Team knows what will happen nobody can "play it safe".
Then it is as equal and fair as it can get at this time. Is this optimal. No it is not. Will it become better?
Hopefully it will.

This also is the ONLY issue that exists with connections to CCP. Its not a problem unless someone gives out
information that a player should not have or helps them in a way that is not in conduct of the given rules.

One thing that must be understood, sometimes it is helpfull to ALL that some players have this access. Real example:
2 Teams. 300 ships. They want to duke it out. The system is screwed up for some reason.
Team-1 has a connection and "dials up". Explains that we want a fight and it cant be done.
Please look at this before everyone become bored, loggs off and posts 10 threads on E-O on
how sucky the game is and there is no place for huge fleet fights!

GM/Dev/whatever comes on-line, checks the system. Fixes something that was broken. Lag reduces. Fight happens.
Both teams are happy, equal losses, no smack, no flaming posts on CAOD and other things never heard of follows.

That is a good thing to have. Agreed?
The same connection getting information it shouldnt get. Bad. Very bad.

My 2 cents anyway.


Cheers,
Lowa

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:07:00 - [185]
 

Forgot to add that the talk of being banned from ISD by the power of a player needs to be cleared.
That ties into how said communication lines are used etc i.e. very important.


/Lowa

Teldan Powers
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:10:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Again CCP's answers are not even worth the words in them because they give 'answers' to questions no one asked and answers nothing about the question asked! This casts more and more shadows onto everything.
I think you need to read the allegation again; Kieron's response addresses exactly what was alleged.

It's pretty hard to investigate a general accusation like "some players benefit improperly from in-game events". Where do you start? But if there's a specific case of improper conduct that you think you've observed, by all means you should report it.

Wesley Baird
D00M.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:16:00 - [187]
 

I am troubled that Bob gets pulled into so many of these posts, as they are players and free to act in their best interests. I am however troubled in the way CCP chooses to deal with these types of issues.

I would suggest a few things that would help to gain back the trust of its users.

1)All communication which goes on between GM's, Dev and players in regards to the game need to be logged, and thus open to audit.

2)A third party company needs to be brought in for over-sight of such issues. Literally an ombudsmen, who is completey free from CCP, and answerable to the community.

3)GM's and Dev's are not allowed to participate in player run alliances. I would prefer that they are not allowed to play the game at all, other than in segregated space, but that is wishful thinking.

4)The RP side of the game needs a complete overhaul, and should not be allowed to have a major impact on the non-rp community. Giving out moms for example is just too much...a faction battleship would have served just as well for the story line.

5)All devs or GM's caught cheating need to be fired. If I get caught stealing at work, even if its months after the actual theft occurs, do you think I would still get fired?

CCP you need to answer these allegation's with action and changes, not with more of the same..."We looked into it, there was nothing wrong, so move along"

Gal'Devari
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:16:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Jadiin
Originally by: M4sterm1nd
Dear whiners,
Excuse the language, but frankly all this garbage just irritates the sh*t out of me. I love Eve, and if you don't, just frack off! There is no Big Brother, no hidden agenda, no shadow government, they are NOT out to get you! You're not that important, and i'm truly sorry you think you are.

Let's just give it a rest, huh people?
_


What he said
I agree with this idea.
Watching all the people whine and complain about something that most likely didnt even involve them is funny.

I see many of you twisted the gms words around to suit your own wishs. if you cant read and understand what is being said stop responding to it and go back to your 9/11 was a inside job threads on myspace lol.

Gm says variables are involved they scream rigging because storyline is not set in stone or following what they want. peace eve

VenderSquez
Minmatar
Sanguine Marauders
Tread Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:16:00 - [189]
 

The way I see it CCP has accidently stumbled on the only MMO in the world that mirrors not just a actual running economy- - -but a well oiled political environment as well.

This game owns

This is not really related i guess.

Malena VXXI
Amarr
Persia Capital Investments Group
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:18:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Malena VXXI on 28/05/2007 14:20:40
Edited by: Malena VXXI on 28/05/2007 14:18:48
Groundless?

I want a full report from CCP on this matter nothing is groundless!
It's never smoke with some fire under it

this years fanfest I deff wanna be at ;)

Gal'Devari
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:19:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Lowa
Forgot to add that the talk of being banned from ISD by the power of a player needs to be cleared.
That ties into how said communication lines are used etc i.e. very important.


/Lowa


This is the only real issue i can see in this whole whining argument.

The facts actually surrounding the isd banning need to be looked into.

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:25:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Gal'Devari
Originally by: Lowa
Forgot to add that the talk of being banned from ISD by the power of a player needs to be cleared.
That ties into how said communication lines are used etc i.e. very important.


/Lowa


This is the only real issue i can see in this whole whining argument.

The facts actually surrounding the isd banning need to be looked into.

Whine? I would never whine! I would like to have some wine though. Razz

/Lowa

Ironnight
x13
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:34:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Krugerrand

You realize the likes of AAA etc are doing that too?


I dont really care who did it, I just want to know how this is not an exploit, it just doesnt make an sense to me.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:37:00 - [194]
 

Edited by: Matthew on 28/05/2007 14:42:15
Originally by: Malena VXXI
Edited by: Malena VXXI on 28/05/2007 14:20:40
Edited by: Malena VXXI on 28/05/2007 14:18:48
Groundless?

I want a full report from CCP on this matter nothing is groundless!
It's never smoke with some fire under it

this years fanfest I deff wanna be at ;)


No smoke without fire? I beg to differ:

Linkage

It's actually very easy, and surprisingly cheap to produce smoke with no fire at all. Just something some people might want to think about.

Leon Johnstone
The Scope
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:47:00 - [195]
 

Sounds like just a lot of people making accusations - a bad sign for the game. Nothing will destroy a community more than repeated attacks on the integrity of the developers.

Setana Manoro
Gallente
Firefly Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:52:00 - [196]
 

Edited by: Setana Manoro on 28/05/2007 15:02:05
Originally by: Sabahl
Edited by: Sabahl on 28/05/2007 12:58:16
The way I see it...

1) CCP have given an explanation as to how they see the accusations and have pronounced them as being groundless

2) We have a choice. Believe CCP's internal investigation or do not believe them

3) If we choose not to believe them, why are we playing a game where we have zero trust in the people who are creating and developing it? We should stop playing immediately.

4) If you are still reading, you do not believe 3) and therefore trust CCP's investigation

5) If 4) is correct that means that the original accusations are groundless. Therefore the original accusers should post up an apology immediately for all the disruption that was caused. Failure to do so would only be acceptable if they have enacted 3) and have quit the game

6) Lets not even talk about the leakage of the Aurora event details, how it derailed an entire story arc, disappointed a LARGE portion of the player base and lead to a huge amount of effort on the part of the events people to be lost. Whichever alliance was benefited by the leakage of the information ultimately lead to the loss of a huge amount of enjoyment for a sizable proportion of the rest of us players. I have no idea which alliance it was, but given the origin of the open letter I have a couple of guesses.

All those in favour, say Aye

Signed

The Rest of CCP's Customers


I do not speak for BoB. Hell, most of the time I don't speak for me!


CCP has given an explanation and we chose to believe it or not.

Good reasons aside, CCP's track record when it involved BOB isn't stellar. How many BoB members have trolled the forums generally behaving like asses and saying suggesting different levels of Tech for tinfoil hats in the Kugu/t20 incident. Oooops, it was true. They were speaking for BoB too, as they were wearing the ticker and they had no disclaimer.

You do not have the right to ask to not be missjudged considering the ticker you are wearing.

PS: The only 2 things that interest me in this whole affair tbh are :
- are certain groups of players given advanced notice of events and events are made in their favour?
I am not talking of how a story goes, or what is given, I am talking of giving advanced notice when no such notice should be given and in the past such cases existed.
However, this question will not be answered because if they say no, then it's utter BS and everybody knows it, and if they say yes, they will be flamed.
Guess I need to buy CCP staff beer to get a MS in-game ... right ?
- What were the circumstances of the ISD guy's dismissal.

On the first i am certain a clear answer will never be given and on the 2nd i am waiting to see what they come up with.

Though I am somewhat surprised that Kieron who is not in IA made this statement instead of the IA guy.

Nicoli Voldkif
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:55:00 - [197]
 

Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon

Not only in every MMORPG, but in every god damn RPG out there.

I am a hard-core RPer. I RP in EVE about 99 percent of my gaming time, and I am very involved with one of the major CCP-created player factions. While I too have had my issues with certain details of certain events, this whining about a game of thousands of roleplayers having some "rigged" events in it is complete bull****. (Yea, I know that word won't pass the filter, but I just cannot make myself to invent a polite alternative for something that so obviously *is* complete bull****.)

I have been slightly involved in running a live action game that was played for about 10 hours every month, by about 50-70 people (depending on whether you count the support cast). There's no way you can run something like that completely open-ended, other than not have a storyline at all, but let players run it alone. If your local LARP GM tells you all the storylines they introduce are completely player-driven and receive equal love and care, here's a newsflash: either they don't really run those storylines by putting any more effort to them than you do yourself, or they are lying to you, and possibly to themselves, in order to preserve the illusion of a "real world".

The logistics of running an open-ended storyline do not scale up linearly in the number of players, it scales up linearly in the number of relationships between players or player factions - which is more or less exponential in the number of players.

There's no way humanely possible to run a completely open-ended storyline for thousands of players. As an extreme example - we all know there's factional warfare coming up. That takes huge planning, background story writing and programming - and no way is it going to get cancelled even if all player factions suddenly decide to hold hands and sing kumbayah. (True Unity! *cough* Sorry 'bout that.)

CCP has to have a rough idea where the storylines are going, in order to do the game development. The events staff has to work in the limits set by that. Anyone with half a brain and minimal game-mastering experience, even from something remotely similar like tabletops, realizes that.

There's lots of insanity going on with these accusations and witch hunts, but as far as roleplaying is concerned, in the end it all boils down to the same old ultimate maxime of roleplaying: if you don't like the way the game is run or how much the storylines are "railroaded", and if you don't trust the GM to work with eveyrone's fun in mind, get the **** out and go do something else. There's no point in wasting your life playing a game ran buy guys you don't trust and whose style you despise, let alone paying them for that.

Myself, I love what I have seen from the eventa staff lately, and I am staying. I don't give a damn if you guys are railroading it or not. For me, it's not about winning, it's about having fun. If I start to play to win, I hope I realize in time and go and get myself a life.

</soapbox>



I'll leave the quote because its soo right and will add several examples of other companies thatt does this

Games-Workshop - every single Summer battle event has been pre-rigged to have a set ending according to GWs plans. Players get to determine things such as the location that X character falls in battle. that character will die because GW says so, but the location is changable

AEG "legend of the Five rings - Again main story arc is determined by AEG but player affect HOW the arc meets the predetermined finish. one of the events involved which faction provided the "second" for a main characters "seppeku" or ritual suicide. the main character was going to kill themself, the thing determined by the players was which faction got the honor for it.

Lets see White Wolf has done it, Blizzard has done it, and give me enough time I'm sure I can find more. Its pretty much standard practice when you have a large story arc.

Bismarck vonDresden
Minions of Madness
Posted - 2007.05.28 14:59:00 - [198]
 

The core fiction may have preset outcomes. Big Deal. CCP must have the ability to control the core fiction in line with their development efforts. They need to introduce story arcs as they release patches. Whatever it is, there are numerous reason to maintain a option to steer fiction in a specific course.

There is a point made by some on this thread, that should players choose the [predetermined] side, they loose before the first shot is fired - IF it's a combat or contested event, not all of them are. That can be hard to swallow, but then, taking a chance always has the possible undesirable outcome. As long as all players have the same information available (i.e. no information on those predetermined outcomes) then there is really no reasonable issue to be had with rigging the storyline in some events. If ALL events follow a preset storyline, it really diminishes the fun of it, but participating in it still is more fun that a gatecamp, wouldn't you say?

To be reasonable, just because BoB has dev friends, doesn't mean every dev is a friend of BoB. CCP is a company with numerous people working for it. EVEN IF the dev friends BoB may have were immoral enough to manipulate events for the benefit of BoB, there'd be other guys involved that would have no such motivation. The only way there's any real cause for concern is that if you truly believe that every person involved in creating events is doing so just so that they can give their buddies some phat lewt. If you're ready to believe that, then you're spending too much time typing and too little time making new tin foil hats. Events also aren't made up on the spot, there's planning done around them. I'm certain the time, location and rewards for any event are decided long in advance. If a player, corp or an alliance happens to be in a position to benefit more than others, good for them they got lucky.

The only real question then is whether information is leaked or not. If it's leaked, there's a serious problem. Leaking info is also pretty hard to control or keep track of, all it takes is one employee happy to act dishonorably, and it's potentially untraceable if that employee is careful enough. In such a case, CCP would be very hard pressed to find any evidence if any exists, and trolling about with burning torches isn't going to make them as a company guilty. If such evidence exists, I trust CCP to act accordingly in the unlikely event that they can find it, and reason dictates that it wouldn't be CCP's doing, but an individual (or at worst a few individuals).

Anyone reading the "Open Letter" and believing blindly everything that's said in it, should just take a moment and consider what else could be going on. For all we know, the writing it was bumping dreads and generally annoying people because he himself was trying to influence events in order to give his own RL friends the upper hand, or he's just a Goon making up a story.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, ok. ShockedIdea

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:09:00 - [199]
 

Having read the open letter...

*Karl puts on his helmet*

The issue originally complained about was not that RPing events were rigged to benefit any particular person, corp, or alliance.

The original complaint was that CCP mislead members of the RPing community by suggesting that players had an effect on the outcome of story arcs, when in reality those story arcs had a pre-determined outcome.

So essentially, it seems to me, CCP is admiting to the accusation that was made, but spinning it as if the real complaint was actually that RPing events were being rigged to "help" a particular sect of players.

Way to go, CCP, your PR geniuses have done it again! But that's what you do in PR, correct? You answer the question you want to answer, not the question being asked.

Not that most of the people in EvE would ever find out, given that links to the "open letter" are deleted immediately, and those posting them lose their forum privlidges. Confused

-Karlemgne

Bismarck vonDresden
Minions of Madness
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:10:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Matthew

It's actually very easy, and surprisingly cheap to produce smoke with no fire at all. Just something some people might want to think about.


It's true. I read so on the internet.

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:15:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Bismarck vonDresden
The core fiction may have preset outcomes. Big Deal. CCP must have the ability to control the core fiction in line with their development efforts. They need to introduce story arcs as they release patches. Whatever it is, there are numerous reason to maintain a option to steer fiction in a specific course.

There is a point made by some on this thread, that should players choose the [predetermined] side, they loose before the first shot is fired - IF it's a combat or contested event, not all of them are. That can be hard to swallow, but then, taking a chance always has the possible undesirable outcome. As long as all players have the same information available (i.e. no information on those predetermined outcomes) then there is really no reasonable issue to be had with rigging the storyline in some events. If ALL events follow a preset storyline, it really diminishes the fun of it, but participating in it still is more fun that a gatecamp, wouldn't you say?

To be reasonable, just because BoB has dev friends, doesn't mean every dev is a friend of BoB. CCP is a company with numerous people working for it. EVEN IF the dev friends BoB may have were immoral enough to manipulate events for the benefit of BoB, there'd be other guys involved that would have no such motivation. The only way there's any real cause for concern is that if you truly believe that every person involved in creating events is doing so just so that they can give their buddies some phat lewt. If you're ready to believe that, then you're spending too much time typing and too little time making new tin foil hats. Events also aren't made up on the spot, there's planning done around them. I'm certain the time, location and rewards for any event are decided long in advance. If a player, corp or an alliance happens to be in a position to benefit more than others, good for them they got lucky.

The only real question then is whether information is leaked or not. If it's leaked, there's a serious problem. Leaking info is also pretty hard to control or keep track of, all it takes is one employee happy to act dishonorably, and it's potentially untraceable if that employee is careful enough. In such a case, CCP would be very hard pressed to find any evidence if any exists, and trolling about with burning torches isn't going to make them as a company guilty. If such evidence exists, I trust CCP to act accordingly in the unlikely event that they can find it, and reason dictates that it wouldn't be CCP's doing, but an individual (or at worst a few individuals).

Anyone reading the "Open Letter" and believing blindly everything that's said in it, should just take a moment and consider what else could be going on. For all we know, the writing it was bumping dreads and generally annoying people because he himself was trying to influence events in order to give his own RL friends the upper hand, or he's just a Goon making up a story.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, ok. ShockedIdea



In and of itself, I agree with you that there is not something inherently wrong with a game company controling the outcomes of the core game fiction.

The issue really is, why lead your customer base to believe that they absolutely control the destiny of the game fiction, when that isn't the case?

I mean, I know why you'd let players affect outcomes, because it makes them feel like they too are helping to create the world in which they play. I know too why you'd want to actually control your games story. Again, what I don't know is why you'd mislead your player base either way.

-Karlemgne

Radgun
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:15:00 - [202]
 

yep, groundless, case closed, back to shooting/mining/whatever Smile

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:17:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Radgun
yep, groundless, case closed, back to shooting/mining/whatever Smile


Laughing

Nothing to see here, move along!

Aduna
Empire Market Corporation
Eve Trade Union
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:21:00 - [204]
 

and what about the allegations that BoB has dev access via MSN which circumvents the normal petition process? what about the allegations that they caused an ISD guy to be fired? are you going to address that issue as well, or just sweep it under the carpet like you did the last time with t20?

I fixed that typo for you -Eldo

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:21:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 28/05/2007 13:52:04
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/05/2007 04:38:56
Originally by: Andrus Delai
If one side is predetermined to win, then the event is rigged. The fact that the events aren't rigged with a certain player/faction/alliance that only lessens the severity. If the outcome of any event is predetermined, EVE is not truly a sandbox game.

And since event information is not kept secret it could easily be leaked to others in the game and given a predetermined victor, the chance of information leaks increase dramatically.


This happens in every MMORPG. In fact, in most MMORPGs, every single event is like this.


Not only in every MMORPG, but in every god damn RPG out there.

I am a hard-core RPer. I RP in EVE about 99 percent of my gaming time, and I am very involved with one of the major CCP-created player factions. While I too have had my issues with certain details of certain events, this whining about a game of thousands of roleplayers having some "rigged" events in it is complete bull****. (Yea, I know that word won't pass the filter, but I just cannot make myself to invent a polite alternative for something that so obviously *is* complete bull****.)

I have been slightly involved in running a live action game that was played for about 10 hours every month, by about 50-70 people (depending on whether you count the support cast). There's no way you can run something like that completely open-ended, other than not have a storyline at all, but let players run it alone. If your local LARP GM tells you all the storylines they introduce are completely player-driven and receive equal love and care, here's a newsflash: either they don't really run those storylines by putting any more effort to them than you do yourself, or they are lying to you, and possibly to themselves, in order to preserve the illusion of a "real world".

The logistics of running an open-ended storyline do not scale up linearly in the number of players, it scales up linearly in the number of relationships between players or player factions - which is more or less exponential in the number of players.

There's no way humanely possible to run a completely open-ended storyline for thousands of players. As an extreme example - we all know there's factional warfare coming up. That takes huge planning, background story writing and programming - and no way is it going to get cancelled even if all player factions suddenly decide to hold hands and sing kumbayah. (True Unity! *cough* Sorry 'bout that.)

CCP has to have a rough idea where the storylines are going, in order to do the game development. The events staff has to work in the limits set by that. Anyone with half a brain and minimal game-mastering experience, even from something remotely similar like tabletops, realizes that.

There's lots of insanity going on with these accusations and witch hunts, but as far as roleplaying is concerned, in the end it all boils down to the same old ultimate maxime of roleplaying: if you don't like the way the game is run or how much the storylines are "railroaded", and if you don't trust the GM to work with eveyrone's fun in mind, get the **** out and go do something else. There's no point in wasting your life playing a game ran buy guys you don't trust and whose style you despise, let alone paying them for that.

Myself, I love what I have seen from the eventa staff lately, and I am staying. I don't give a damn if you guys are railroading it or not. For me, it's not about winning, it's about having fun. If I start to play to win, I hope I realize in time and go and get myself a life.

</soapbox>



Holy **** Else, Way to hit the nail on the head!

On a side note, haven't seen you attempt to swear in a long time, this must really have gotten under your skin ;)

Kroolish
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:38:00 - [206]
 


Cool

Seems youve sorted one issue out at last, Gratz,
The question still hangs in my mind with this game.
When do i get a seeded BPO for a HAC or something? or have i got to join BOB first?

Eagerly awaiting my Agent Offer :)

And what are you gonna do about the BOB situation now CCP has made them to BIG to defeat by seeding them tech2 BPOS, i hear people leaveing eve because youve made it impossible to beat the BOB collective due to all the extra help they get by haveing direct MSN contact lists with GM/DEVS as quoted by Dianabolic in a previous post.
They control at least half the Eve universe now and in all honesty i think you originally started working with BOB diplomats about a year ago you helped them out to make eve even more riddled with War`s,

So the main question is : As a new player looking to build a life for himself/corp in 0.0 space which in fact is virtually impossible now due to 0.0 being owned by a CCP influenced Alliance BOB?

The sooner you sort this issue out the sooner your players will come back,

Kroolish (Over 3yrs paying for this game) and not happy with the constant BOB/CCP alliance which seems to be happening all the time, i can give dozens of examples where CCP always take bobs side just to keep them happy now therve created such a big monster in 0.0 CCP are scared of BOB`s reactions to anything they do to them..

Ive got frapps with BOB spys on our teamspeak, Frapps of Titan playing skittles in POS sheilds bounceing ships out which are meant to be safe in POS`s, I`m sure if BOB had a carrier bumped out of a POS and owned CCP would have a completely different stance on this matter, but because we complained about it in a petition we got warned by ccp not to esculate it :( wheres the justice in that i ask you, being told you will be at a disadvantage if the petition gets esculated to a seniorGM :( Now if i was Dianabolic(BOB) and used my personal MSN DEV list things would have been different..

I`m sure you all relise now in this game theres 2 catagories of people, and a Major problem with fairness and the EULA needs work,, so much for no harrasment and so called no discrimination.

I wonder if i can petition my outpost under the EULA where i felt harrassed for 1.5yrs by bob and ccp will give me it back lol

Wishfull thinking :)

Enjoy

Krool

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:43:00 - [207]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne

The original complaint was that CCP mislead members of the RPing community by suggesting that players had an effect on the outcome of story arcs, when in reality those story arcs had a pre-determined outcome.


people believing that its not possible to influence the outcome of story arcs may want to consider actually taking part in some events. just because you wont be able to alter the course of an empire on your own doesnt mean you have no effect at all.

the tetrimon arc is a pretty good example of this actually. the final verdict whether or not the orders scriptures would be regarded as authetic and what would happen with the legal status of the order was never one for individual players/corps to decide. that was the responsibility of the npc organization theology council and subject to the ccp plans for the greater story.
however the players participating did influence the events leading up to it on a smaller scale. the tetrimon supporters in am did a lot of work for the tetrimon, fighting pirates and heretics alike and they certainly had an effect on those parts of the story.



also: people claiming to have evidence of aurora/ccp missconduct should maybe consider providing the new IA department with said evidence.

Elmo Noguchi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:56:00 - [208]
 

Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 28/05/2007 15:55:16
Originally by: Lowa
stuff



Lowa, I read your sig at first as "There's no escape from Iowa (a state in USA)!" and I thought that was actually scarier.

Laughing

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:56:00 - [209]
 

Edited by: Namingway on 28/05/2007 16:13:03
Originally by: Revan Neferis
Originally by: CCP kieron
The claims of CCP rigging events to benefit a player, corporation or alliance are groundless.



I was avoiding to post here but this... honestely.
You can't be serious.


Despite your belief, the world doesn't revolve around you, and everything not going your way is not a conspiracy against you or your spotlight craving in the RP world.

If you've been 'wronged' then, well, you know the saying about proof.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.05.28 15:57:00 - [210]
 

All I can think is that everyone whining and *****ing about this has never DM'd a game before.

The story is ALWAYS rigged. Especially when to create that story takes weeks/months/years, whether in a computer or on paper. The Players INFLUENCE the story, have fun in the story, have stories to tell about the story, but the outcome (unless the DM gets really ticked) is unchanged or you destroy months of development time.

What Keiron said is that events were not rigged specifically to help one faction/group/individual; if you were on the right side, great. If not, better luck next time. I have no problem with this, it is no different than any other RP game, be it computer, email or pen/paper and dice.

Simpy the story must go forward for consistency. Otherwise it goes no where and there is no storyline.


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