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Richard Johannson
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:48:00 - [211]
 


Sorry Dominique, but if a software update is released and a huge number of users i.e. has problems with it and all send a request how to install it propper to the same side, you think that is a thrednought too then?

pator gurl
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:48:00 - [212]
 

Edited by: pator gurl on 28/05/2007 05:52:34

Also regarding Darkstar1 corp -

Have you stopped to consider that a player who submitted the petition is on some holiday (Hint it's a 3 day weekend in the US and several parts of Europe) and hasn't visited your corp/alliance forums?

Maybe some Bob guy filed a petition because he visited your corp's pos while he was in a cloaked ship and he still got killed (that happened to me twice)

Maybe someone from the Goon alliance (who isn't in the DS1) corp filed a petition. More than 2k people in the alliance, have you asked everyone?

Also, after all this noise has been created do you think the person will own up to submitting the petition? He'll be crucified if he admits this.

And if CCP tells you who filed the petition then they are breaking their own laws.

Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:49:00 - [213]
 

Originally by: Aries Acheron

As for the 2nd petition... it's a DS1 member calling the Devs with a petition to fix something. They come two days later and fix it. Then they ask the Devs why they came to fix something. CCP, being busy, ignored it since they were asked there by DS1 to begin with.



You really are stupid. At least I'd think that a DS1 petition to find out why a Dev had given himself access to the corporation, when as far as the directors know there was no reason for that to happen would have gotten some attention. Which I'm assuming they included in their petition. Why, you might ask? Because the anomaly of DS1 asking why someone was fixing something they supposedly reported broken seems a bit ****ing odd. MEANWHILE you have no proof that the bug report didn't come from someplace OUTSIDE DS1 any more than anybody else has proof that it didn't come from INSIDE DS1. CCP didn't say one way or the ****ing other. That means its quite possible that another player petitioned it and DS1 had ABSOLUTELY NO ****ING KNOWLEDGE of the first petition, which makes it even more imperative that DS1 be informed as to why theres a Dev in their Corp.

DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:51:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Richard Johannson

Sorry Dominique, but if a software update is released and a huge number of users i.e. has problems with it and all send a request how to install it propper to the same side, you think that is a thrednought too then?



Well what goon's did was spamming, reposting the same crap over and over again. There's a difference.

Empyre
Chaotic Balance
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:51:00 - [215]
 

Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 05:54:14
my aching head.. these arguments are parallel to a child asking 'why? why? why? why? why?' it's flippin MADDENING! when the heck did everything become a freakin conspiracy?!

ccp, seriously.. i know it's not good for your business model but you should honestly just say case closed, screw off. people like this infest every game.. they scream and cry hax every single time they get outgunned or get caught stat padding themselves.

it's an inability to accept ones' misconceived idea that they are always right and is, in reality, mostly the opposite. you've done more than you should have even bothered and it's still not enough (and will NEVER be unless you falsely tell them their diluted fantasies are real). anyone that would leave as a result is, in my opinion, hardly an asset to your and our investment.

Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
You really are stupid. At least I'd think that a DS1 petition to find out why a Dev had given himself access to the corporation, when as far as the directors know there was no reason for that to happen would have gotten some attention. Which I'm assuming they included in their petition. Why, you might ask? Because the anomaly of DS1 asking why someone was fixing something they supposedly reported broken seems a bit ****ing odd. MEANWHILE you have no proof that the bug report didn't come from someplace OUTSIDE DS1 any more than anybody else has proof that it didn't come from INSIDE DS1. CCP didn't say one way or the ****ing other. That means its quite possible that another player petitioned it and DS1 had ABSOLUTELY NO ****ING KNOWLEDGE of the first petition, which makes it even more imperative that DS1 be informed as to why theres a Dev in their Corp.



and what, pray tell my friend, do YOU have proof of? you couldn't see irony or hypocrisy if they were punching you in the face could you?

pator gurl
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:53:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Empyre
Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 05:50:48
my aching head.. these arguments are parallel to a child asking 'why? why? why? why? why?' it's flippin MADDENING! when the heck did everything become a freakin conspiracy?!

ccp, seriously.. i know it's not good for your business model but you should honestly just say case closed, screw off. people like this infest every game.. they scream and cry hax every single time they get outgunned or get caught stat padding themselves.



lol, I like the way you think.

Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:57:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Richard Johannson

Sorry Dominique, but if a software update is released and a huge number of users i.e. has problems with it and all send a request how to install it propper to the same side, you think that is a thrednought too then?


There is the suspected chance that a patch will not go over well. Thus CCP makes many announcements. They will try to install it Mon-Wed. (unless extreme circumstances). And the chance that something goes wrong, the forums are expected to be assaulted, however. If something does go wrong, the game is most likely not up and there is no "intentional spam"

In the case of Goons, it appears to be an orchestrated event, which from the unintended addmisions of GS members, was the purpose of their actions. It is this that puts them in violation of the agreements they accepted when they scrolled down past the EULA to get into the game.

Beyond Horizon
Caldari
Solar Dragons
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:57:00 - [218]
 

Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 28/05/2007 05:56:26
Warren Commission

Magic Bullet exists ! It's true !

Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:58:00 - [219]
 

Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:01:22
*snip* Don't attack other players. Thanks, Rauth. CCP bungled the handling of this multiple times, and the fact that people are angry about it is no surprise. They could have avoided this part of the scandal multiple times by showing A LITTLE transparency at ANY step before this point, but they didn't. Tell DS1 that a Dev will be fixing a bug before it happens, no problem. Reply to DS1's petition telling them that the Dev fix a bug, no problem. Even have Sharkbait or Arkanon post a reply to the VERY first thread instead of trying to sweep it under the carpet, saying that there was a petition that needed to be fixed in that way, no problem.

Instead there was no heads up, no answer to the petition, whatever happened to it, and no answer to the first attempt at getting an answer in public. CCP SCREWED UP, and now they're paying the price for such a monumental blunder.


Edit: as to what I have proof of, I have proof of DS1 directors saying they have no clue WHY a Dev was in their corp, via forums before all this started. I have proof of a Dev giving himself director roles in DS1 via a screenshot. I have proof that CCP gave no indication of what the hell was going on till now from Arkanons own post. I also have DS1 stating that they sent a second petition asking what happened, and not getting a response. THOSE are the FACTS, that I have based my argument on, you're the one disputing those FACTS *snip* Be nice..

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2007.05.28 05:59:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Richard Johannson

Hello Arkanon,

first of all i would let you know that its nice to get some feedback. Thanks
If the investigation is finished please include answers to the following concers
in your report:

1. Would you be able to sure find out if the Dev who was in the station took a screenshot from inside the station and relayed it to his buddys in BoB, or can you only ask him about this matter and have to belive, trust him?

2. Are you 100% sure that a Dev can not delete a petition, and why would that not be possible for a person with his access level as a Dev and database Admin?

3. Why was there no response to the petition which was filed to determine the reason of his intrusion?



1. why would a dev need to join the corp to take pics of the station if he wanted... if the dev really would have wanted to cheat, he would have just gone there and taken pics... why he would risk exposure by joining the corp.

i say this is BS that goons are crying about... and has been said to be legit reason for joining the corp :)

2. deleting logs or petitions. i bet that the games database isnt just some simple SQL code crap where theres no logs about who used it and what he did. and i have to agree what has been said before in this thread. its impossible to change or delete any log or petition whitout anyone knowing about it. that is ofc if CCP has a database system ithat a 10y old made for them :P

3. dunno about that.


pator gurl
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:01:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Richard Johannson

Sorry Dominique, but if a software update is released and a huge number of users i.e. has problems with it and all send a request how to install it propper to the same side, you think that is a thrednought too then?


Bad patches and Eve go hand in hand. It has happened so many times. You dont see a threadnaught for a bad patch.

Akrinos LuCont
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:03:00 - [222]
 

finally! a technical response. and as stated, its a long weekend. and further investigation will take place.


Empyre
Chaotic Balance
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:04:00 - [223]
 

Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 06:09:51
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
*snip*. CCP bungled the handling of this multiple times, and the fact that people are angry about it is no surprise. They could have avoided this part of the scandal multiple times by showing A LITTLE transparency at ANY step before this point, but they didn't. Tell DS1 that a Dev will be fixing a bug before it happens, no problem. Reply to DS1's petition telling them that the Dev fix a bug, no problem. Even have Sharkbait or Arkanon post a reply to the VERY first thread instead of trying to sweep it under the carpet, saying that there was a petition that needed to be fixed in that way, no problem.

Instead there was no heads up, no answer to the petition, whatever happened to it, and no answer to the first attempt at getting an answer in public. CCP SCREWED UP, and now they're paying the price for such a monumental blunder.


lol.. how did they bungle it up? YOU GUYS are the ones asking them to break policy and give you details on the petition. YOU GUYS are the ones claiming that their investigation is absolutely false because the answers don't jive with the way you've already played this non-existant conspiracy out in your heads. YOU GUYS are the ones continuing to cry out for a lynch mob on issues the evidence is clearly pointing elsewhere to.

so i ask again.. where is YOUR proof? the accused generally have to provide proof to back up their accusation in almost any judicial system. so?

you know.. this crap almost straight ticks me off. to think of all this time they are wasting, when it could be being used to better the game. shameful.

Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:05:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: CCP Arkanon
This instance was brought about as the result of a player-submitted petition. Sharkbait joined the corporation to investigate and resolve an issue reported by a member of the corporation in question.


Why should Sharkbait have to contact the CEO when CCP's assistance was requested? I've underlined the portion of the quote that shows this.

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:05:00 - [225]
 

Originally by: LymeM
Originally by: CCP kieron

The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.



The community would appreciate a substantiation of this statement by the posting of the petition in question, with who petitioned it.


You mean Goonswarm, or at the very least, you, would like them to post something that you know damn well there's pretty much 0 chance of them posting.

They snip threads that post even part of a petition, and you're actually asking for them to post a full petition on here? While I think it'd be enough to silence all but the Kugu fanbois, I'd be extremely surprised if they even consider doing it.

I'm sure you're the same way.Wink

Alois Hammer
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:11:00 - [226]
 

oh i like this......a few more posts about goonswarm making an issue out of this just might derail this post and the answers everyone actualy wants....
i as a corp owner would really love to know what is someones business that is not in my corp to post a pettition about my POS that a dev/gm need to join my corp for in the first place???
since as some here would suggest, they have the power to do whatever they want anyways.
and if the dev has to be actualy in-game to do this magical trick , common courtesy would be at least to answer to the corp-person online whats going on.

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:13:00 - [227]
 

Originally by: LymeM
Originally by: CCP kieron

The petition was submited on the 6th of May, Sharkbait acted on the 9th of May and the petition was successfuly closed a few days later. The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.



The community would appreciate a substantiation of this statement by the posting of the petition in question, with who petitioned it.


why would they break the privacy rules??? dunno if thats enough to loose the license to run this kind of business but giving out personal information to anyone, can get you jailed. ingame usernames are also personal information.

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:13:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: Kaplanelle
Originally by: CCP kieron
The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.



Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise.

This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude.


Considering you people waited until the holiday weekend to maximize the damage since you, and your boss kugu know full well people would leave for the holiday, I think CCP is being rather kind. Yes, I'm saying the release of this information was planned by entities hostile towards CCP to cause as much damage as possible. How's that list of 'demands' coming along?

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:15:00 - [229]
 

People need to make a coherent argument here.

On the one hand, you say sharkbait and his accomplices deleted a petition directly from the SQL database without leaving a trail and bypassing all their systems.

On the other hand, you still think he had to obviously join your corp with an evemail announcing his presence in order to do whatever it is you think he did.

No. Sharky didn't do anything wrong and you flipped out over it. I don't think any petitions were deleted, and I'll eat my hat if that turns out to be true.

The only valid complaint people have mentioned anywhere in this ordeal (that i've heard) is the fact that BoB members (still) have some msn contact with devs and this just isn't fair to other alliances.

arghy steelwill
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:16:00 - [230]
 

If sharkbait really wanted to fix the problem why dident he contact the CEO and work out the problem with him?, i mean if the CEO could work the problem out by himself then it would be helpful in the future since you could just explain it to them instead of interfereing like this. The fact is your track record is horrendus just forces the point, if this dident happen now it could happen in the future. The complete silence you gave DS1 and your rampant politician like announcements just reinforce the image that you dont care what we say, you CAN and HAVE removed petitions, true you cant delete them but you can make them disapear so by saying you cant delete them you are telling the truth but misdirecting the fact that its gone.


Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:17:00 - [231]
 

Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:16:52
Originally by: Namingway
Considering you people waited until the holiday weekend to maximize the damage since you, and your boss kugu know full well people would leave for the holiday, I think CCP is being rather kind. Yes, I'm saying the release of this information was planned by entities hostile towards CCP to cause as much damage as possible. How's that list of 'demands' coming along?


What holiday*snip* Be nice. -Rauth? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday.

*snip* Flaming and trolling. -Rauth

Empyre
Chaotic Balance
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:18:00 - [232]
 

Edited by: Empyre on 28/05/2007 06:24:46
Originally by: Alois Hammer
oh i like this......a few more posts about goonswarm making an issue out of this just might derail this post and the answers everyone actualy wants....
i as a corp owner would really love to know what is someones business that is not in my corp to post a pettition about my POS that a dev/gm need to join my corp for in the first place???
since as some here would suggest, they have the power to do whatever they want anyways.
and if the dev has to be actualy in-game to do this magical trick , common courtesy would be at least to answer to the corp-person online whats going on.



and then where does it end? there was no wrong-doing. if you can prove otherwise, go for it but ccp just said they have found no evidence of that yet. you have to trust them or the politics in investigating every accusation without evidence would strangle the ability to put the resources where they belong, in running and furthering the game.

as others have said, if you don't trust the game makers then just leave and come back when you feel otherwise.. you'll never be convinced of anything but rumors conspiracy theories.

Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
What holiday you moron? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday. Furthermore Kugutsmen isn't and never has been an actual part of the Swarm, let alone leadership. The fact that you make baseless and stupid assumptions degrades any points you might have to the point of being useless.


hahahahh trolling ccp? that's hilarious. someone get this man a rabies shot for crying out loud. better yet, get a video camera.. it worked for sobering up david hasselhoff.. i think. Laughing

and fyi, every point you've attempted to make has been baseless and assuming.. i would argue stupidly assuming easily, but that's my personal opinion. parents? teachers? no one has been able to teach you the value in thinking before you speak? or rather type as this would be.. which leads further to the confusion, in that typing you have much more time to think about what you say.

the fact you're intentionally speaking this way really disturbs me. (wheres that ghey reporter guy when a brotha needs a hug?)

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:20:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: ssorion
Originally by: CCP kieron
It is not possible for a GM or Developer to delete petitions. Those tools quite simply, do not exist. Claims of petitions being deleted are therefore utter fabrication and completely groundless.

So SQL queries do not work anymore ? LaughingLaughing

BTW, what a nice way to reply to paying customers, go on in same fashion, that will definitely make customers trust CCP more.


Hard to do SQL queries when you don't have to tools and account(s) needed isn't it?Wink

Krytie
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:24:00 - [234]
 

I have tried to read as many pages as I can, but ended up skipping alot as this mostly seems to be teh same things going back and forth. People keep bringing up the fact that a dev can change anything in a database. Well, in some databases.. yes... but in many, it will be impossible. This is for precisely that reason.... take for instance financial databases of firms. Now, one would say that a dev could go in and change all subscriptions to 1 cent in a database after the payment has been received and change the information to send everything to his house.

Basically, these professional databases lock themselves and allow no access and make logs of any attempt to change or delete them as well. Plus, I am sure CCP has a few backups 'somewhere' ;-D

Not to say that CCP is using more than a MS Access database, but I do suspect that they are using a more robust system than that Very Happy So, with backups upon backups and auditing tools, a developer that knows how to delete items, obviously would understand that it would be almost impossible to cover your tracks....




Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:25:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: ZeroForce
theres a goddamn good point "GM's are forbidden to handle petitions of alliances they are involved in" oh yeh well they dont they just MSN a dev to sort it dont they?

also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP


keiron was a BoB member?

And which char was he? Don't tell me you actually think kieron is that evol guy who's name can be rearranged to spell 'kieron'. That's asking people to swallow a rather large amount of idiot juice.Shocked

Maybe he owned the account back then but sold it or whatever back when that was still allowed. I know if I had gotten an account and found out TomB or some other dev once owned it, I'd probably have a char named "Tom the hugmaster" or something goofy like that to refer to him. The re-arranging of letters in 'TomB' wouldn't give very good names.Confused

Etien Aldragoran
Legitimate Corporation
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:28:00 - [236]
 

*snip* Flaming and trolling. Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])

Dominique Parr
Taggart Transdimensional
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:28:00 - [237]
 

Edited by: Dominique Parr on 28/05/2007 06:32:43
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
Edited by: Etien Aldragoran on 28/05/2007 06:16:52
Originally by: Namingway
Considering you people waited until the holiday weekend to maximize the damage since you, and your boss kugu know full well people would leave for the holiday, I think CCP is being rather kind. Yes, I'm saying the release of this information was planned by entities hostile towards CCP to cause as much damage as possible. How's that list of 'demands' coming along?


What holiday you moron? Is it a holiday weekend in Iceland? Cause I'm pretty sure Memorial Day is only an American holiday. Furthermore Kugutsmen isn't and never has been an actual part of the Swarm, let alone leadership. The fact that you make baseless and stupid assumptions degrades any points you might have to the point of being useless.


Iceland's Holiday that falls on this coming Monday
Happy Whit Monday to Everyone

Alice Cholmondeley
I Am Legend
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:29:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Etien Aldragoran

*snip*.


*snip* Be nice. -Rauth Shouting, swearing and raving when things don't go your way.
You are the typical Goon member that makes alot of people dislike GS.
I'd suggest you take a long look at yourself and try to figure out where the disconnect in your brain happened.

Dulsung
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:30:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: Namingway
Originally by: ZeroForce
also Kieron WAS a BoB member (possibly still) and DID either lie or be blatently blind about the whole T20 incident i personally think we should have a DIFFERENT communtiy manager for CCP


keiron was a BoB member?

And which char was he? Don't tell me you actually think kieron is that evol guy who's name can be rearranged to spell 'kieron'. That's asking people to swallow a rather large amount of idiot juice.Shocked

Maybe he owned the account back then but sold it or whatever back when that was still allowed. I know if I had gotten an account and found out TomB or some other dev once owned it, I'd probably have a char named "Tom the hugmaster" or something goofy like that to refer to him. The re-arranging of letters in 'TomB' wouldn't give very good names.Confused


You guys haven't actually read this thread very well, have you? :) ZeroForce needs to learn not to talk when he's completely wrong about everything.

Namingway
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.28 06:30:00 - [240]
 

Originally by: ZeroForce
as another note according to legal laws this game is a "sandbox" meaning this is a open ended and completely level playing field....i hope CCP realises if they fail to resolve this issue people ARE able to take legal action through their respective credit card companies


Except in a court, CCP would hold all the cards, and be able to present records which they likely cannot/willnot put up here (for legal reasons) as anyone who has worked in some management position knows about privacy laws. I'd put my money on CCP having more grounds to go after the ringleaders of the attacks, than you do to have your CC comp go after CCP and 'take back' your sub money or whatever.Rolling Eyes


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