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CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2007.05.29 17:04:00 - [61]
 

the new bombs are fairly expensive to build so i doubt will be used to really damage structures and is only dependant on the corp if they cluster their offensive structures or not.

Also regarding the pos spam tactics, the limit on how many that can be anchored per corp/alliance is just the first of a few solutions being implemented and the rest will hopefully come soon after. The limit by alliance is just the first, so other measures will come such as stacking nerf of anchoring times is one such possible solution post kali 2.0.

the intention has been to make people fight and defend for fewer starbases when it comes to sovereignty and territory and really stop the pos spam and hopefully make the starbase warfare more variable and more interesting.

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.29 17:37:00 - [62]
 

This could be a stupid question, but I will ask anyway Embarassed.

Lets say that the structures outside the POS have ridiculously high hull hitpoints, what happens when dreads kill the POS without killing the structures outside the POS today?

Does this mean that the time it takes to kill pos's today has increased as we would have to kill all turrets as well before we can launch a new POS in its place?

Also as others have said please limit the targeting of dreads to STRUCTURES only. Removing the ability to lock more then 2 objects such as ships would reduce the dread to a singular role (which they are somewhat already), as well as making it hell when the lag kicks in.

Remember that capital pilots have spent a lot of time, SP and isk getting ready for a capital, lets not nerf them to the extent in which dreads are the most boring ship in game.

Cyberus
Caldari
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2007.05.29 18:05:00 - [63]
 

Here is my 2 cents words and 4 years contienus gameplay and seeing all posseble changes/new things in game.

After reading about here and there (did not tested yet by myself). I will split all this changes to 2 difrent groups. As we all know any changes in game alwyas, YES always have positive and negative impact. This is my own idea how the game will looks like after the patch, meaby i'm wrong, but most time ( so not always Razz) its goes that way how i think.

So lets start with positive things:
1) New structures at POSes sound very fun and promissing. ( ecm, repairs, jumpbridge ETC. )
2) Concentrate fire on single target looks good as well ( hope ccp will creete new role for that like: "Defeneder" who will be only able to take over guns to fire if no one else able at POS, cause simply give to many as posseble ppl roles what can maintain guns with current roles is probebly not good idea as at some day ypu can get in game and find out that ypur POS is desapere)
3) Giving role small ships at POS engagment i like most. Simply because i dont like capital ships( Dumb cow's )and never will sink my time to ever fly them.
4) Option to netralize POS defences (guns/missels launshers) first instead pawning CT.
P.S. Tbh i never understand since EXODUS w.t.h. we cant destroy/silence defences in first place.

Negative things:
1) Moving defensive structures out the force field seems prety dumb idea, what will result in weaking POS defences even more then it was before, defenetly with discrasing the range of the guns it will be come even worse. Before you why the hell is that i would like to explaine why i think so:

Lets imagine we have an Large Control tower with anchored ( small/medium/large ) in the quadrat form outside the force field trying to cover all posseble sides of the in coming enemy. So Enenmy scout did the job done by making the pictures of the pos and sending to HQ of the offencive fleet they find out that all posseble side around the POS ( above/down/left/rigth/front/back) is covered by guns, BUT if we warp in fleet at 30km af the force field then hardly only the closest guns will deal some risonable damage to activate our defencive modules, while the guns placed at the other side of POS probebly will not even respond at all because of range. So at this point i think that POS defences will fail actualy with 50-75% fire power at they targets. Even if the enemy fleet will spead out across the POS its still concentrate firepower will be useless if targets simply out of range and lets be honest how many ppl dont fly now sniping ships with insane range?? I mean look at simple harpy 80km ( or even more ) is not so dificult at all in novadays, so they probely can simply avoid the guns after patch simple by keeping them out of they fire range. + Deoloying the guns around the pos will become more pain in the ass how it was before.
Personal i think that guns can better stay inside the force field and keep they range how it now but make it posseble to target those like CT inside the force field ( make the locking time and other changes well how you wrote in devblog)

2) If the things above will become how i expect them it also will impact market and T2 productions simply because many of single coporations or small allainces will stop run they production poses because they will be way to weak against enemys. Some of you can say: "Fu.. them, small corps schoud be not able to run poses for that at all." But then you need to realise that some big allaince will creete monopoly at market with t2 needet materials and we gonna pay again insane prices for our t2 ships/modules. So personal i think if those corps will desapere it will have impact on moon materials and that is our t2 ships what we damn like to fly :).

So that is my whole idea about those changes and i'm afraid they will become real on TQ. Think CCP need very carefuly with changing things and look at what it can bring bad or good with it.
Pardon my english!!!

Lord Wing
DarkVengeance
Posted - 2007.05.29 18:19:00 - [64]
 

alot of people are saying "whats stopping us taking lots of dreads anyway"?
This is what CCP are on about, theres no fun waiting around for a capital fleet. So what if u dont NEED the capital fleet? At the moment like the article said attacking in a set of BS's is sketchy but not if the sets of BS's can kill all the guns, makes it alot easier to kill POS's if they aren't shooting at you. This means instead of spend hours trying to get together dreads a good gang of pilots can start POS bashing alone, co-ordinated attacks could lead to POS cleaning at a whole new rate of speed.

As for the Dreads only being able to shoot 2 targets im all for that, they were introduced as siege equipment and tho they are fun to pop into a fleet battle with they should'nt just zoom in and pwn everything, but people says this makes them vulnerable... so move them with escorts, can u imagine a battering ram walking up to a castle alone?

Hillary Lips
Three Rings
Posted - 2007.05.29 19:19:00 - [65]
 

How about making modules orbit pos and adjust the sig radius so dreads in siege mode wont hit them

Bazulu
Project Mortormis
Posted - 2007.05.29 20:07:00 - [66]
 

A corpie and I did a little bit of testing on sisi with the new POS's.

Spent the time to take out a small POS with a carrier and a raven.

The small POS was fitted with 1 gun, 7 days of fuel, and 1 hour of stront.
We where a little surprised to see that a newly anchored POS starts at 50% shield HP. We let it sit a day until it had recharged close to 75% before we started our siege.
The defense was set up to not shoot us. We started out beating on the POS. We where surprised to see that reinforced mode never did kick in. The POS and gun stayed online until the POS structure was around 50%. The online gun was turned offline, and the POS entered into 'incapacitated' state. The stront in the POS was used, but no idea as to where it went. It took us around 1.5 hours to eat through the armor, another 1.5 to eat through the structure. We received no wait timers.

This was our first time popping a pos.

The POS structure had funky resists. The raven reported that when the POS structure was at 100% he was doing full damage, (around 700) but as the structure got lower, 50% he was doing half damage, and when it was down to 1-2% structure he was doing close to 3 damage per shot.

When we finally did pop the POS, the off-lined gun was still there. I'll see if we can put up a POS in the same spot with the gun being there tonight.

And on a side note, we also set up a death star (All guns) and a dual rep carrier (with capital repair at 3) was almost able to tank it (lost around 2% per rep)

The 12 fighters can put a gun into incapacitated around 30 min. But still, 2 carriers can tank a death star while the POS is being beat on. Maybe a gun that shoots cruiser sized slugs, but can only hit big things. Thus making it a real risk for a capital. Other than that I see no reason to bring in a bunch of small ships to do the job.

maria stallion
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.29 20:32:00 - [67]
 

The bigest fear I see is that if dreads can only lock 2 targets fleet fights with lagg will make the dread pretty useless.

plus it will almost make the dread a poskiller and nothing more, I think that's a shame because it's beautiful to use these things in combat aswell.

like others proposed maybe only enable it that only 2 structures can be locked.

Evil Thug
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.05.29 23:39:00 - [68]
 

Well. I`m speechless.
With recent scandals around "Devs playing EVE", i thought : "ok, may be they will give EVE what it need", at least this was main argument for people, who support this feature. Now we see new blog, and what ? Awesome ! No ! Its BADASS ! Is it hard, to join any alliance, that participating in dred slugfests, and see how it works from inside ?

Last engagement in 9-98. From 8 RAT dns, participated here, only 1 was able to lock targets after grid downloaded. Rest were trying to do that, but they managed to aquire lock only after 10+ minutes (for some of them it took around 40 minutes). So, you are trying to lock primary, secondary. After 10 minutes you are aquiring lock, but primary is dead, and secondary is in half of armor. Take into account 10 minutes to activate guns, and you will be very sad panda.

Is it hard to accept CCP mistake (I think it was Tuxford), who buffed capitals with like 5 - 6 x hp. And now - yes, you are trying to fix this mistakes with bombs, locking penalties, trying to make capital warfare more intresting for participants. Why don`t you just step back, and think : "What caused this boredom ?".

Back then - we haven`t had so many dreadnoughts. I remember when corpmate of mine warped to POS with 7 x large artilleries, and left in structure, because all of them alpha-striked him.

Back then - we haven`t had rigs, so you was able to hold only 1 capital armor repair in siege mode. Now - with rigs - you can hold 2 easily. Have you ever tried to kill dred who is holding 2 reps on autorepeat in siege with battleship gang, TomB ?

Ok, ranting part is over. Proposed solution :
- DEbuff capitals and supercapitals. Less HP = good, more killable by battleship gang.
Drednought = Current base armor\structure\shield divided by 4
Carrier = Current base armor\structure\shield divided by 4
Mothership = Current base armor\structure\shield divided by 2
Titan = Current base armor\structure\shield divided by 2

- Reduce damage of titan vessels on capitals.

- Buff POSes. 2 x times HP buff. 5 x times buff of guns damage. So large guns on capitals will matter alot. Also - we need MOAR guns. For now - default minmatar deathstar with 7 large artillery battery have whole 2181 dps (with EMP loaded).
With more guns - reduce tracking of large batteries by significant amount. So it will be more like dread = Moving -> you are fine. Not - bang bang.

Clerence Thomas
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:36:00 - [69]
 

What's with the steel core on the nerf bat? Combat in my carrier already sucks and now your gonna make me an expensive armor slab waiting to be ganked? Erg.

When you launched capships they were "pre nerfed"... now they are getting even more nerf and becoming even more useless... Cute CCP.

And nerfing the towers? Ouch.

Suggestion: Rename the patch to "Uber Ner***e with Sovreignity" :(

Vio Geraci
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.05.30 00:43:00 - [70]
 

Bane "Bein" Glorious has requested that I relay this message for him, since both of his accounts are currently expired and he is unable to post.

“I agree with Evil Thug in most cases when it comes to capital ship HP, but not so much on some specific issues. It is definitely a problem that the gap between capital ships and subcapitals has widened so significantly since the Kali's release, and it is rooted partially in titans and another part in the HP buff, giving capitals almost twenty times the hitpoints of battleships.

“In some ways, the HP buff was a good choice, though its implementation I think is suboptimal. Carriers and dreadnoughts had little enough HP that a group of dreadnoughts could focus fire on one and destroy it in under a minute, and comparing a dread’s hitpoints to the damage it did in siegemode, it was undoubtably a little out of proportion.

“Behind all this, dreadnoughts are required to do enough damage to take down a control tower, which also was enough to decimate another capital ship very quickly, so it is logical in some ways to increase their HP. But the unintended effect of the HP buff is that at present, capital ships have enough HP that you are virtually required to bring capital ships of your own in order to kill another in any reasonable amount of time, and even then it can take an age (especially for Archons, I hate them). This is one of the biggest causes to the ongoing obsolescence of subcapital ships, and left alone, it could be detrimental to combat in EVE Online in the future, potentially producing an 'alpha class'.

“What I propose is that you work on balancing from the other end of the equation. Reduce the HP of control towers, reduce the damage done by dreadnoughts in siege mode, and reduce the HP of all capital ships in proportion with one another. Perhaps a 33% decrease could be sufficient. Dreadnoughts would still be more effective pound-for-pound at destroying other capital ships and POSes than subcapitals, but it would increase the importance of support fleets just enough to dissuade ‘capital spamming’ as a valid tactic. In addition, making sieges take slightly less time would break up the monotony of POS warfare, which would please a lot of people.

“In the end it is up to the developers as to what they think, but even a minor overall decrease could make all the difference.”

Aaron Static
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.05.30 01:26:00 - [71]
 

Can a dev please comment on when the "Starbase Management" skill will be seeded on sisi? it is still currently impossible to test manual control of the defense structures.

Even once seeded, it is going to take a long time to train it to level 5, the required pre-requisite for "Starbase Defense Management".

Also is there any word on what the Starbase Management skill will do besides being a time-sink on the way to Defense Management? This seems like a waste of time and will only mean that very few people will actually be able to take command of the POS guns, so once revelations 2.0 comes out you will see POSs going down everywhere with minimal resistance.

IHaveTenFingers
Caldari
Origin.
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.05.30 03:46:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Aaron Static
Can a dev please comment on when the "Starbase Management" skill will be seeded on sisi? it is still currently impossible to test manual control of the defense structures.

Even once seeded, it is going to take a long time to train it to level 5, the required pre-requisite for "Starbase Defense Management".

Also is there any word on what the Starbase Management skill will do besides being a time-sink on the way to Defense Management? This seems like a waste of time and will only mean that very few people will actually be able to take command of the POS guns, so once revelations 2.0 comes out you will see POSs going down everywhere with minimal resistance.


The skill "Starbase Defense Managment" no longer require "Starbase Managment", it only requires anchoring level 5, still not a fun skill for those (most / all) of us who didnt put a heck of a lot into charisma.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.05.30 04:40:00 - [73]
 

future idea on how to balance POS guns?

Ok a turret on a dread is the size of a small frig
So then a captial POS gun should be.. what 50sig radius?
there doesn't need to be a dread hooked to it to fire it has an easy to hit POS.

This would make hitting them with captial guns a *****

now as far as small groups goes that captial POS gun has the same tracking and sig radius output as a dreads capital gun.

meaning it won't be able to keep up with anything other than a slow battleship or above.

This seems like a simple idea that would balnce it with the whole dreads only get two tragets on top of this

Just think the death star. it can't keep up with an X-wing. but if the X-wing was standing still, it would have a great chance to 1-shot it. however it's still a small traget.

and that huge gun can be trageted and destoryed by little ships.

ok so that's pushing it a bit but I think you understand my reasoning

Serena Sorrow
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.05.30 07:15:00 - [74]
 

Does this mean you now have to bring even more ships to the fight? Dreads for the tower, BS for the guns and you still have to bring the support fleet + random stargatebubbledudes. To me this sounds like more people, even more lag and more frustrated players.

Please correct me if I missunterstand something.

Lyn Bunnions
Posted - 2007.05.30 07:38:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the new bombs are fairly expensive to build so i doubt will be used to really damage structures and is only dependant on the corp if they cluster their offensive structures or not.

Also regarding the pos spam tactics, the limit on how many that can be anchored per corp/alliance is just the first of a few solutions being implemented and the rest will hopefully come soon after. The limit by alliance is just the first, so other measures will come such as stacking nerf of anchoring times is one such possible solution post kali 2.0.

the intention has been to make people fight and defend for fewer starbases when it comes to sovereignty and territory and really stop the pos spam and hopefully make the starbase warfare more variable and more interesting.


And thus the solution to blobbing is to give people less central areas over which to fight in order to try and ensure that in the end they have to blob certain places or lose? Awesome thinking!

CCP TomB

Posted - 2007.05.30 08:47:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: XoPhyte
This could be a stupid question, but I will ask anyway Embarassed.

Lets say that the structures outside the POS have ridiculously high hull hitpoints, what happens when dreads kill the POS without killing the structures outside the POS today?

Does this mean that the time it takes to kill pos's today has increased as we would have to kill all turrets as well before we can launch a new POS in its place?

Also as others have said please limit the targeting of dreads to STRUCTURES only. Removing the ability to lock more then 2 objects such as ships would reduce the dread to a singular role (which they are somewhat already), as well as making it hell when the lag kicks in.

Remember that capital pilots have spent a lot of time, SP and isk getting ready for a capital, lets not nerf them to the extent in which dreads are the most boring ship in game.

The structures get hull resistance bonus from the tower, once it is gone then the resists go as well.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2007.05.30 11:13:00 - [77]
 

I must admit I have not got around to test server yet to test out new POS warfare although I have monitored various threads about it. Reading all that I have small question about guns, POS and lock ranges.

Do POS guns have now separate lock ranges from towers ?

If I understand it correct currently POS engagement range is 250 km from tower. Reason why I ask is bcos I started wondering if it would be possible to engage 'single guns' so that they can not shoot back in extreme range setup's (like cruise missile raven) by staying 250+ km from tower but within ship lock range of guns (under 249 km) (whitch are now outside shields).

Acacallis
Posted - 2007.05.30 13:58:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Acacallis on 30/05/2007 14:12:11
Edited by: Acacallis on 30/05/2007 14:12:03
How do the Jumpbridges work exactly? If a corporation in an allince puts one up can the entire alliance use them? It seems that it will be a really handy tool, not so much though if only a single corporation can use it? Will there be a way to make it public without giving access to the rest of the POS's facilities? <EDIT>(I should read before posting). One final thought will it be possible to have an alliance set up a jumpbridge net and have another alliance use it? Thats all the questions I will ask for now.
Thank You-
Aca

Melwitax
Posted - 2007.05.30 16:08:00 - [79]
 

A while back it was mentioned that DNs would be able to participate in lv 5 & 6 missions now we're told they can only lock 2 targets at a time?!?!?

So what are they going to be able to do in these missions aside from getting shot at?

DNs do more then just attack starbases they have a role in fleet actions too. While I don't yet own one, my understanding it that they're excellent carrier busters and not too shabby at popping battleships. Reducing them to 2 targets at a time is going to reduce their effectiveness in this capacity as well.

If you want to make it so that smaller ships have a role in starbase assaults then yes it makes sense to nerf the damage on siege weapons so that they are ineffective against turrets, but nerfing the number of targets a ship can lock on degrades it's performance in all aspects.

If you really want to give smaller ships a role in starbase attacks, give the bases specialty drone/fighter bays. These drones can be specifically designed to be effective against cap ships and only launchable from structures. Smaller ships would be essential to take them out before the caps ships pop. You might also try the same tactic with turrets, a turret designed specifically to destroy cap ships but vulnerable to smaller vessels will give these ships an important role in starbase assault without limiting any ships' abilities.

Zark Brassen
Koshaku
Sc0rched Earth
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:04:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Zark Brassen on 30/05/2007 18:08:54
Edited by: Zark Brassen on 30/05/2007 18:08:27
I am still waiting for the devs to explain how you are going to defend a tower that comes out of reinforced mode? At that time the guns will be dead (or incapacitated - no matter what they will not shoot) so you only have any fleet you can scramble to defend the tower. That means that all the initiative goes to the attacker - he can select when to attack a tower - and why would he do that when there is people online to man the guns in the tower. Manning guns sounds fun - being forced to be online 23/7 to be able to man them don't.

EDIT: stupid me - found this in another blog:

Structures can now be anchored when the host control tower is in reinforced mode, forcing attack groups to patrol the tower until it is destroyed while giving the owner a chance to recover from assaults.

Question is now if the incapacitated guns will still take up grid/cpu and thus prevent the new guns from being anchored or onlined.


William Hamilton
Caldari
Endless Destruction
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.05.30 18:59:00 - [81]
 

^They're adding remote hull repairers wich will allow you to repair the incapacitated guns to working condition.

Dal Thrax
Perkone
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:26:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the skill requirements for starbase defence management will be updated as soon as possible on sisi. When you assume control, the sentry will appear in place of your ship modules and you will receive damage messages from the sentries you control when they are active. You then target in the same way you do normally and activate.

To give you an idea of some of the internal testing we have done and ongoing balancing, six of us in two bs, three cmd ship, one logistics using tech 2 modules, attacked a variety of starbases and were successfully able to tank and attack the offensive structures for a quite a while. Where you place your offensive structure is quite important as many of the sentries have sweet spots where the smaller ships are able to minimise the damage they get. So placing the sentries in different locations factored in a lot for being able to hit attackers.

In phase two of the testing I stabbed everyone in the back and took control of 5 structures with my comrade and with 10 structures under our control we were able to start focusing the fire and use of EWAR structures which helped a lot were able to overwhelm the tanking of the group.

The starbases ranged from hardnened pos with a group of small sentries (fairly common on TQ), to maximum guns and ewar to a mix of both.

In short, we think it is developing nicely that small support/raid groups can have a multitude of roles and more importantly there are many more variables to the starbase combat, especially when you get defenders coordinating the sentries and EWAR. In combination with the sovereignty changes to limit the pos spam tactics and allow people to harass, attack and be forced to defend whilst being able to provide viable defence against capital ships (4 controllers with 16+ large sentries + EWAR = frightening amount of concentrated firepower).

Bare in mind there is a lot of changes to the sentries behaviour and the targeting time it takes for any of them to lock a ship is based on signature radius of the target and the scan resolution of the sentry itself now so it is not always insta death for the first ship in.

We do want to add repair structures that can target and repair other structures which are only active when they are controlled by a player. Though it is not certain if it will be in for kali 2.0, but definitely soon after if not.

It is our intention to get all this on sisi and get player feedback as soon as possible and arrange quite a few events with you so we can test all this in a variety of scenarios.



I think you have you scales all wrong. When it comes to starbase warfare around 40 people is a small gang. If ten can be effective what's to keep a large blob from smashing everything in its path?

I am also concerned about these changes effects on smaller corporations. A POS is an asset that is in space 23/7. These new changes seem to indicate that

1) You will need to have large enough numbers to have someone online 23/7 to defend to POS from attack; and

2) That person will need to have two specialty skills at 5.

I have a feeling these changes will prove a significant challenge to say a corp of 30 flying a small POS in 0.3 space (as the POS will now be vulnerable to pirate attack when the owners are not online to coordinate a defense). The inability to defend POS's will limit smaller organizations to only high sec POS's. This will both decrease the number of POS's in the game and concentrate the availability of moon minerals in the hands of a few groups.

Dal

B Glorious
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:48:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Dal Thrax
I think you have you scales all wrong. When it comes to starbase warfare around 40 people is a small gang. If ten can be effective what's to keep a large blob from smashing everything in its path?

I am also concerned about these changes effects on smaller corporations. A POS is an asset that is in space 23/7. These new changes seem to indicate that

1) You will need to have large enough numbers to have someone online 23/7 to defend to POS from attack; and

2) That person will need to have two specialty skills at 5.

I have a feeling these changes will prove a significant challenge to say a corp of 30 flying a small POS in 0.3 space (as the POS will now be vulnerable to pirate attack when the owners are not online to coordinate a defense). The inability to defend POS's will limit smaller organizations to only high sec POS's. This will both decrease the number of POS's in the game and concentrate the availability of moon minerals in the hands of a few groups.


Well you could still have a hull repair array around to repair all of your stuff, and you would only have to repair that. Destroying the modules doesn't destroy the tower itself, and if a group wanted to destroy the tower they'd have to go through with the whole process of sieging, waiting through the reinforcement timer, and finally destroying it.

As for smaller industrial corporations getting terrorized by pirates because of these changes to starbases, it's really just a fact of life that larger groups are more effective than smaller groups. It may seem unfair for someone to lose their factory POS because they were outnumbered and outgunned, but its much more unfair for a group to be completely unable to destroy a POS controlled by as few as just one person because they don't have the prerequisite number of capships to take it down.

I should also note that small POSes are pretty easy to take out with 30 people already, this just makes it a little less painful and, from what I can see, encourages people to engage one another more than what we have now.

I view these changes as a good move because of things I've heard about from the china server. Since it takes over a year to get into a dreadnought, deathstars really can't be fought against until some people on the server have the skills to fly them. You could wait for up to a year to have an effect on somebody else because of this, and its essentially putting the game on hold for all the people who didn't plop down a POS there first. Giving people more alternative methods to dealing with starbases is, in my eyes, a needed change, and I'm really looking forward to it.

Also, make it so you can destroy/disable hardeners please, it'd make the process a lot more painful.

Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry
Posted - 2007.05.31 18:27:00 - [84]
 

Actually, i don't know if someone suggested this, but i just say it anyway, when is buildable starbases coming?

Also, awesome job so far Wink

TheDarkForce
Posted - 2007.05.31 23:48:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: TheDarkForce on 31/05/2007 23:48:34
Edited by: TheDarkForce on 31/05/2007 23:47:45
After messing about with this on sisi, controling the pos gunz etc while a dread was shooting i find that the pos gunz need an omg boost, i know a pos isnt supposed to be a solo pwn mobile but the idea of putting the gunz oustide the pos is to give smaller ships a goal as jumping the dreads in without taking a few of the gunz out could lose some dreads, but as it is now a dread could tank the damage of a pos setup specificly for dread killing.

I setup a pos (mini) with 4 neut turrets (so he couldnt rep) and as many xl turrets that the p/g would allow and it took nearly half an hour to pop the single dread that was shooting my pos, put that in to a tq situation with 40 dreads and it will just be a waste of time and isk even putting gunz up!

rant over Very Happy

Plz look at the dmg output, i like the idea or where its going but go ahout it the right way plz.

Dark

Edit spelling Rolling Eyes

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2007.06.01 02:17:00 - [86]
 

I agree with above.\
IF your going to make POS guns dread killers but weak when fighting battleships you need to

-make it so dreads can only lock 2 at a time
-lower the sig raduis to the size of a dread gun
(as in the gun it's self not the ship)
-increase dmg on POS guns
-Decrease tracking speed on POS guns so large only hit a Dread
(or a stuid battleship pilot)
-
the dread suck agaisnt gun because of small sig radius and only 2 targets
the guns rock agaisnt dreads as they act like dread guns with out the rest of the ship
the POS guns don't rule smaller ships because of tracking speed
battleships can traget all of the POS guns and do it faster

also small sigradius on POS guns would help with dread missles

Mahrin Skel
Imperium Technologies
Posted - 2007.06.01 08:40:00 - [87]
 

Large long-range POS guns seem to put out about 1000DPS for the whole tower, with racial tower damage bonuses and short-range ammo you can double that. You could double it again by fitting short range large guns, but then the dreads will sit 100km away from your tower and give you the finger while they pound you to scrap. If you spared no expense and used the coming faction guns and XL ammo, you could get another 50% boost on that (from a tower that will probably cost more than a titan). So, 3000 DPS against a target with around 400,000 raw HP, not counting resists, that's 133 seconds, two minutes plus a bit for a kill. But no resists isn't going to happen, it doesn't take much cap to keep the Hardeners online and keeping the cap zeroed-out all the time isn't feasible. He's going to have resists of at least 75% on either shields or armor, and he's going to have a damage control, just no cap for the Cap Repair/Shield Booster. So the effective amount of damage you need to dish out to drop a non-Siege/Triage mode capital is about 1M. Not counting any natural shield regeneration.

Our hypothetical pimped-out Faction-fitted-and-loaded tower will need at least 6 minutes to take down one normally-fitted Dread or Carrier that is not in Siege. Our more typical one will need 9-10 minutes, *if* they don't stand off at 200km and force you to load long-range ammo, then you're going to need 18-20 minutes (and who's going to be running around outside the shield changing that ammo, hmm...?).

If it's in Siege or Triage mode, or Officer-fitted, don't waste your time, every tower in the system will be down before you even break the shields of an armor-tanked capital ship with all the firepower a POS can carry. Should have fitted hardeners instead.

You gave the capitals a buttload of HP to keep them from being taken down by a handful of battleships, but in the process you made them effectively immune to POS fire. If you don't massively improve (by at least a factor of 5) the DPS outpost of large guns, you might as well not bother, because everyone will do what they do now: Mount just enough guns to keep the standard ships away, and pile on the hardeners to buy time to hit them with something that can actually hurt them: Another capital blob.

--Dave

Viqer Fell
Minmatar
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2007.06.04 08:38:00 - [88]
 

It all looks very interesting and there are of course good and bad points but all in all change can be a good thing.

Couple of quick questions for you devs (TomB etc) though..

1) Will you finally fix POS so that attacking a war targets POS in high sec no longer brings Concord to defend them? As it is at the moment Hi-Sec POS are invinvible even when they should be valid war targets.

2) Can the POS guns target other POS structures, i.e. can someone take control of five guns then start to decimate the POS's other guns and defences in an effort to betray the corp f.ex.

Kremnican
Caldari
Kinetic Vector
Posted - 2007.06.04 09:45:00 - [89]
 

So is there any update on the Starbase Defence skill? Was it seeded? And is there a chance people will get it's prereq. to lvl 5 so they don't need to spend month just training the skill?

Kai Lae
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.06.04 13:31:00 - [90]
 

Starbase is seeded, not that it's needed. Everyone has it currently on sisi. Just log in. I'd also like to note that CCP still have not fixed POS missile launchers; they still take CPU. This means that they go offline when in reinforced, so they're nearly useless for POS defense.


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