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Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.23 14:04:00 - [1]
 

Introduction

With the rise in numbers of Dreadnaughts on the battlefield the empires realized they needed a way to neutralize the threat of enemy dreadnaughts. While designing these ships they barrowed heavily from their own dreadnaught designs, but they wanted these ships to be mobile and easier to use. To achieve this they removed the jump drives, and made the ship smaller in size. At the same time they developed a fire control system that allows these roving weapons platforms to concentrate fire on a single target. Being designed after the dreadnaughts, these ships of the line rely upon the extra large class of weapons. These ships should be more agile than carriers/dreads but less agile than a battleship, and for warp speed I think they should be limited to 2AU per second or 2.5 AU per second to make them fall between the battleships (3 AU/sec) and the capital ships (1.5 AU/sec). Basically 0.75x normal warp speed.

These ships are designed to fill the gap between capital ships. With that in mind, they have more HP than battleships but less than capitals. They also have sensor resolutions closer to a capital ship than a battleship. Because of this it takes them a long time to lock smaller vessels. Even with sensor boosters they only have the lock speed of a tech 1 cruiser with no sensor resolution bonus. Also these ships do not get any bonus to tracking speed or explosion velocity to the extra large weapons. Again this makes them weak to smaller ships (a several hacs would be a serious problem to these ships if caught alone). These ships do pose a serious threat to capital ships when in a group. Three to four of these should be able to overcome the siege mode tank of a dreadnaught or the triage mode tank of carriers/motherships.

Also following the lines of battlecruisers and destroyers, only one skill needs to be added to the game. Each ship will require “Ship of the Line” to level 1 and then the appropriate racial battleship to level 3. The skill “Ship of the Line” should be about rank 10 and it would need Advanced Starship Command to level 3 in order to train.

In terms of production, these should be around 500 to 600mil in materials to make the ship itself and since they use stargates, these though be able to be built anywhere. They should be build with capital components. To achieve that price they would need to average around 100 components per ship and I can see them using 10 to 11 different types of components in the construction depending on the ship. I think final build time should be around 8 days and the final ship build should require capital construction to level 3 just like freighters, dreadnaughts, and the carriers.

Exodus – Amarr / Ship of the Line – After realizing that ships like the Revelation where a threat to Amarr interests, the Exodus was born. The Exodus is capable of dishing out enough destruction to cause potential invaders to think twice before attacking.

Ship Bonuses:
-10% Extra large Energy Weapon Cap use per level
+5% Extra Large Energy Weapon Rate of Fire per lvl

Role Bonus:
-99% CPU need for Fire Control Module I

High slots – 6 (5 turrets)
Mid slots – 4
Low slots – 8
PG – 870000
CPU – 775
Volume – 1125000 m3 repackaged
Mass – 887500000 kg
Structure – 80,000
Armor – 90,000
Shields – 60,000
Shield Recharge – 8000 seconds
Capacitor – 50,000
Capacitor recharge – 2500 seconds
Standard tech 1 resists
Sensor Strength – 38
Locking Range – 90 km
Sensor resolution – 50mm
Sig Radius – 750 m
Max Locked targets – 6
Speed – 75 m/s

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.23 14:05:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Selak Zorander on 23/05/2007 18:51:06
Edited by: Selak Zorander on 23/05/2007 18:49:31

Dragon – Caldari / Ship of the Line – Though the dragon may not be considered a bird, it was still a creature of flight. The Dragon is capable of dishing out destruction like its fierce namesake.

Ship Bonuses:.......................................................Potential idea for pure missile boat:
+5% Citadel Torpedo Rate of Fire per level..................+5% citadel torpedo velocity per level
+5% Extra Large Hybrid Damage Range per level.........+5% Citadel torpedo Rate of Fire per level

Role Bonus:
-99% CPU need for Fire Control Module I

High slots – 6 (2 turrets/3 launcher).............................High slots - 6 (5 launchers)
Mid slots – 7
Low slots – 5
PG – 580000
CPU – 1100
Volume – 1050000 m3 repackaged
Mass – 825500000 kg
Structure – 80,000
Armor – 60,000
Shields – 90,000
Shield Recharge – 12000 seconds
Capacitor – 47,000
Capacitor recharge – 2350 seconds
Standard tech 1 resists
Sensor Strength – 42
Locking Range – 98 km
Sensor resolution – 54mm
Sig Radius – 780 m
Max Locked targets – 6
Speed – 80 m/s

Skuld – Minmatar / Ship of the Line – Named for the Norse Valkyrie of Necessity, this ship was deemed necessary to the defense of the Minmatar Republic. Following traditional designs this ship favors speed and Weapons.

Ship Bonuses:
+5% Extra Large Projectile Weapon Damage per level
+5% Extra Large Projectile Rate of Fire per lvl

Role Bonus:
-99% CPU need for Fire Control Module I

High slots – 7 (4 Turret/2 launcher)
Mid slots – 5
Low slots – 6
PG – 830000
CPU – 1000
Volume – 1095000 m3 repackaged
Mass – 854500000 kg
Structure – 80,000
Armor – 75,000
Shields – 75,000
Shield Recharge – 10000 seconds
Capacitor – 42,000
Capacitor recharge – 2100 seconds
Standard tech 1 resists
Sensor Strength – 40
Locking Range – 93 km
Sensor resolution – 51mm
Sig Radius – 720 m
Max Locked targets – 6
Speed – 95 m/s

Persephone – Gallente / Ship of the Line – Named after the Greek Goddess – Queen of the underworld, this ship was designed to bring death to the battlefield. Departing from normal drone heavy designs, this Beast of war favors hybrid weapons and can be quite deadly at close range.

Ship Bonuses:
+5% Extra Large Hybrid Weapon Damage per level
+5% Extra Large Hybrid Tracking per lvl

Role Bonus:
-99% CPU need for Fire Control Module I

High slots – 6 (5 turrets)
Mid slots – 5
Low slots – 7
PG – 740000
CPU – 850
Volume – 1000000 m3 repackaged
Mass – 789500000 kg
Structure – 80,000
Armor – 80,000
Shields – 70,000
Shield Recharge – 9333.333 seconds
Capacitor – 45,000
Capacitor recharge – 2250 seconds
Standard tech 1 resists
Sensor Strength – 39
Locking Range – 98 km
Sensor resolution – 52mm
Sig Radius – 740 m
Max Locked targets – 6
Speed – 85 m/s

Fire Control Module I – Fire control module for ships of the line. It boosts max damage and tanking slightly while at the same time reduces speed and max locked targets.

CPU – 10,000
PG – 100,000
Cycle time – 300 secs
Consumption quantity – 375
Consumption type – Strontium Clathrates
Damage multiplier bonus – 150
Max velocity bonus - -50
Max Locked Targets bonus – -5
Shield Boost Bonus – 50
Armor Repair Modifier – 50
Shield Boost Duration Bonus – -25
Armor Repair Duration Bonus – -25

EDIT - fixed typing error for the gallente high slots (had launchers in there that were not supposed to be there and wrong turrets)
EDIT 2 - added a second column with potential changes to make the caldari a pure missile boat with bonuses that do not make it overpowered compared to the others

Lionel Redstar
Gallente
Pure Skunkworks
Posted - 2007.05.23 14:09:00 - [3]
 

/signed

Captain Schmungles
Caldari
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
Posted - 2007.05.23 15:21:00 - [4]
 

Would they be limited to low sec space like capital ships, or could they travel in high sec?

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.23 16:07:00 - [5]
 

The idea is that they use normal gates so they would be just like flying a freighter around. these ship could also provide empire corporations with a means to deal damage to alliance by being able to go after smaller or poorly defended POS. Also, if they ever change the fact that concord defends high sec POS when your corp is at war with another these can be used as a potential means to attack and destroy high sec POS though they are not as effect at killing pos as a dreadnaught would be since they do not have the same damage output and they can not tank as much damage as a dread can making them even more likely to be killed by a large battle tower with the changes to POS that are being introduced in rev 2.0

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2007.05.23 16:16:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Reggie Stoneloader on 24/05/2007 04:10:01
[You fixed it, nevermind]

The current ship of the line is a T2-fitted battleship. Eight T2 turrets can probably match this thing for DPS in most cases, and the price tag is about the same.

I think these would be redundant, serving only to raise the bar on SP needed to participate in fleet warfare.

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.23 17:21:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Selak Zorander on 23/05/2007 17:41:31
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
4 turrets and 4 launchers on the Gallente one? What?

The current ship of the line is a T2-fitted battleship. Eight T2 turrets can probably match this thing for DPS in most cases, and the price tag is about the same.

I think these would be redundant, serving only to raise the bar on SP needed to participate in fleet warfare.


oops on the turret thing...damn copy and past slip ups, it should be 5 turrets (fixing it now).

As for redundant, these are designed to be capital ship killers with limited use in fleets. With the fire control module active these things have roughly 50% of the damage output of a dreadnaught in siege mode. they also have the survivability to be able to deal damage while withstanding curret dooms day device figures. They would have very limited use outside those areas. Think of it as the poor mans/empire dwellers dreadnaught.

IronSkillet
Posted - 2007.05.23 17:45:00 - [8]
 

huh... that sounds like a good idea to me : )

Nicoli Voldkif
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.05.23 18:06:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Nicoli Voldkif on 23/05/2007 18:05:48
Caldari one should not have a split ship design, leave that to the minmitar but make sure they have more highslots.

This is similiar to this thread also which seem to be variations on the same theme.

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.23 18:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif

This is similiar to this thread also which seem to be variations on the same theme.


While it is similar to the idea of presented as picket ships, those ships use the large weapons instead of capital weapons, and they rely on a jump drive. by relying on the jump drive, they are not capable of getting into empire space. While that may not be a bad thing, I would think that with POS allowed in space up to 0.7 depending on standings i should think that there should be a ship that has the potential to destroy those POS other than dreads that were in high sec before it was changed so that you could not built them there.

As for the the split design, I was hoping to provide a ship that a rail pilot could do something with (yes i know its not hard to train up to use missiles but some pilots dont want to rely on missiles to do everything for them. Problem is that there are also those that use missiles that would want to use the ship or would think that it is unfair that they don't have access to a mini capital (remember the debates on the design of the rohk). If I could easily solve that problem I would.

That said, I admit that this design idea is not perfect or ideal in any way because frankly there is no way to test them with ccp making them and starting somewhere. For instance they should probably all have some sort of drone bay but I did not include that as it slipped my mind. Also, some of the bonuses or fittings may need to be changed or balanced a little. I appreciate the feedback though. I'll look through my notes for when I was coming up with these and see if I can make a balanced caldari design that uses only missiles or only hybrids. The only problem with the missiles is that they are long range and doing a full missile ship, the caldari one quickly becomes the hands down best ship because of the significantly high damage possible at longer ranges.

OK it was easier to look at then so if the caldari one was full missile boat and stuck to kinetic missiles it would outdamage the other three ships by up to 30% at long range (close range fittings on the others are only 15% lower than the caldari one in this case). Of course that is with +5% kinetic cit torp damage instead of +5% capital hybrid damage. That can be solved by giving it a different bonus like +5% missile velocity or something along those lines, but that is not an overly useful bonus and will probably be cause for complaints because the caldari would only have one bonus deemed useful while the others would all have 2 useful bonuses.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2007.05.23 19:49:00 - [11]
 

I looked this up the other day when someone suggested a ship between BS and Dread. It appears that the BS is the ship of the line. I was hoping to find a classification between BS and Dreadnaught since a Dreadnaught was not really much larger than a battleship. It's a bit like Cruiser to Battlecruiser size difference, very slightly larger dimensions but with far more deadly weaponry. I believe the Bismark was one of the first WW2 Dreadnaughts.

Quote:
battleship: Definition and Much More from Answers.com
The origin of the term battleship comes from the ship of the line, ... The French Navy ship of the line Le Napolιon became the first battleship built from ...



Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.23 21:28:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Selak Zorander on 23/05/2007 22:43:50
Yeah thats true drizit.

I just have no originality for coming up with names for the overall ship class. In practical terms, Dreadnaughts in the Worlds Navies were actually a type of battleship that was smaller than a world war 2 battleship except that they mounted the same sized guns as the ww2 battleship. Lokk up th USS New York for an example. so we already have name disparities in game in terms of ship classes. Honestly these ship could be named anything i sort of choose ship of the line because they are designed to be anti-capital ship and to help hold the line of an invasion involving hostile capital ships attempt to conquer your space if you were the defending alliance. Then the roles got expanded a little to make them more of a poor mans dreadnaught or dreadnaught like ship that could be used in empire space (up to and including 1.0).

The the devs like the idea and did something along these likes and called them Juggernaughts, that part really does not matter to me. Its the balance of these in terms of capabilities that is really the important part. as it is, this is merely a suggestion for a class of ships to fill the gap capability wise between dreads/capitals and battleships. it also provides a potential reduction in lag because before to take down a group of dreads you would have to get a large gang of battleships together where you would need a smaller number of these ships (at least that is the idea) and before you had to have a huge gang or sniper battleship to defend your dreads if trying to siege a POS where now you could easily use a small group of these ships and these couold actually help disable bits of the POS or get it closer to reinforced if there was no enemy response.

dastommy79
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2007.05.24 00:14:00 - [13]
 

I was also thinking up a similar idea to yours. What about the invention of "escort carriers"? I think they should cost about half of what a normal carrier cost but have it no be able to fit the +1 drone mod. It would have half the hp of a carrier and use "bs" sized moduals. Maybe have it requier racial bs lvl4 and all the fighter drone needed skills. the only large problem i would see with this is people using the ship to run missions in high sec so maybe limit it to .4 and lower. Also could use jump gates aswell.

Another idea is a hybrid of the dread and a carrier. There are a lot of pilots that have both skills but its a waste of isk to own both ships. i figure make it cost around 3 bill isk, have 4 weapon slots, +1 fighter and 10% weapon damge per lvl (racials add +5 drone, +5 shield hardener etc): and the ship would not be able to use siege mods or +1 drone mods. It could mount your "fire control system" to help when attacking a pos.

I'll also like to see the introduction of Capital NOS and Smart bombs. Eve has reached the capital age, might as well have the proper mods for it.


If ya like any of my ideas, let me know and i'll go into more details. If someone already came up with ideas kudos to ya. See ya in spaceSmile



Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.05.24 01:59:00 - [14]
 

Not nearly enough DPS. In comparison a sieged dread has the equivelent of 18 turrets+skill bonus.

A t2 battleship designed solely to combat capitals should do at least as much damage as a sieged dread.

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.24 02:14:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
Not nearly enough DPS. In comparison a sieged dread has the equivelent of 18 turrets+skill bonus.

A t2 battleship designed solely to combat capitals should do at least as much damage as a sieged dread.


two problems with that statement. One these are not tech 2 battleships, this is a new tech 1 ship similar to a battlecruiser except it is between battleships and the rest of the capital ships.

two, these things are approximately 1/3 the cost of a dread before fitting either and they do the equivalent of 12.5 weapons of damage + skills and ship bonuses. See that fire control module. Now see the damage multiplier of 150%. that means take listed turrets and multiple my 2.5 to get effective turrets before adding in skills and ship bonuses. 5 * 2.5 = 12.5 so these are darn close as it is.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2007.05.24 04:16:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Selak Zorander
As for redundant, these are designed to be capital ship killers with limited use in fleets. Think of it as the poor mans/empire dwellers dreadnaught.
Okay, I'm sold. Especially with the skill requirements being what you propose, this seems a lot less like a ridiculous super-killing ship and more like a corp asset with a narrowly defined role, like a Destroyer.

I dig it.

Khozhlov Zhadov
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2007.05.24 11:19:00 - [17]
 

I think its a good idea. Militaries would inevitably create a counter to such a threat as the dreadnoughts.

Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.05.24 12:18:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Ralitge boyter on 24/05/2007 12:18:03
I guess this is a good idea, having something between the battleship and the capital class ships makes sense. Currently there is a nice learning lader towards the BS type ships, all skills trained for frigate complement the next cruiser and so on all the way to battleships, then there is a few months spend with you POD suffed full of expensive books trying to get to the captial class ships. (doing that right now)

Having a step in between where you do not need jump drives and can do without the siege mode you drop a good deal trainig time and instead of having the: "Im stalled feeling" should be resolved a bit.


Dryson Bennington
Posted - 2007.05.24 13:22:00 - [19]
 

I have a question, You refer to the design as a ship of the line and also a platform. First things first a platform is a base upon which to build from like a off shore oil rig which once anchored down does not move for long periods of time , A ship of the line is not platform but a moveable or directable vessel that can under it's own power or energy move at a certain rate of speed in a certain direction. A ship of the line can sustain itself in a theatre of combat for a certain amount of time before withdrawing.

I suggest you pick up a book of naval terminology and apply the correct term to the vessel instead of generalizing a class of vessel.

A capitol class like the BC, or BS would actually be able to handle a DN (dreadnaught) a DN is a faster version of a BC with slightly up armoured plating and guns, it was a class of vessel meant to do the job of protecting convoys where BC's where known to lurk about preying on happless freighters

Any vessel above a Cruiser is a Capitol class type ship or a ship of the line that is meant to engage in heavy combat.

A perfect example of ship's of the line is the Great White Fleet from World War I.

zentary
Posted - 2007.05.24 13:42:00 - [20]
 

well i dont think it should have a damage/repair enhanceing mod because then you can just use it with the dread fleet when taking down a pos if it has a damage/repair mod and can use like 5 exlarge guns or 2 exlargeguns and 3 citedal launchers you would out dps a dread with that kinda of ship and most likly people will just use those instead of bs's dreads and beccause it looks like these ships if implamented will out dps a dread pretty easy with that damage mod i also think the sig radious needs to be lowered a little the largest bs is like 450 or a little higher so i think it should be lowered to like 650 would be the largest 630 would be the smallest one of these ships this is just an opinion

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.24 13:58:00 - [21]
 

I agree with the stuff on ship classes dryson. I know i am not an expert at naval ship classes and just went off what i read on a few sites online yesterday.
The one site i looked at the most was wikipedia (yes i know its not always 100% accurate but it is a decent source for information) and if you look up US navy Battleship classes it gives you a list of classes (both planned classes that were never finished or never started, and classes actually used) and it breaks them up into several groups being "pre-dreadnaught era", "dreadnaught era" (which included the Hew York Class of Dreadnaughts), the "World War 2 era", and the "Modern era".

As for using the term platform, i am using the most general sense. So when i say weapons platform, I mean a thing designed to carry weapons. A battleship is a type of weapons platform. In eve, it is the ship class designed to use the "Large" class of weapons.

As for examples of ships of the line, i agree with the one you listed but by preference i prefer to think of ships from the age of sail that were litterally called ships of the line. They wee the ships with something like 40+ cannons on each broadside. And even then they had different classes within those ships of the line as they fell into rattings. A "First Rate Ship of the Line" being the biggest (some with 100+ cannons to a broadside).

On topis of this ship class, I used ship of the line because it was first and foremost designed as a ship to "hold the line" against a force invading and trying to kill all your POS by being present at the POS to shoot the dreads. Then i realized it could fill some other roles as well (like use them to kill other ships of its class, carriers, motherships, and even titans). I probably should have changed the name of the ship class to something like a "Juggernaught" class as it really is a mini-dread (needs all weapon and tank associated skills as dread because the fire control mode is a weaker siege module designed for this ship). I did not do that though as there has been atleast one suggested idea on this forum for a Juggernaut that is designed under a different mindset than this class. Most people try to make them with large weapons and give them huge damage bonuses which i think may make them too overpowered versus smaller ships because look at how well BS do against cruisers and smaller ships now. By sticking to the larger weapons, yes it is possible to hit the really small things now, but frigate sized and smaller ships would almost have to be webbed to a stand still and painted for this ship to deal decent damage to it, and by the time this ship would get a lock, the group of tacklers could prolly have it killed.

Selak Zorander
Posted - 2007.05.24 14:21:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Selak Zorander on 24/05/2007 14:20:32
Originally by: zentary
well i dont think it should have a damage/repair enhanceing mod because then you can just use it with the dread fleet when taking down a pos if it has a damage/repair mod and can use like 5 exlarge guns or 2 exlargeguns and 3 citedal launchers you would out dps a dread with that kinda of ship and most likly people will just use those instead of bs's dreads and beccause it looks like these ships if implamented will out dps a dread pretty easy with that damage mod i also think the sig radious needs to be lowered a little the largest bs is like 450 or a little higher so i think it should be lowered to like 650 would be the largest 630 would be the smallest one of these ships this is just an opinion


The fire control module could have reduced tank helping abilities (or have the tanking part removed all together) but these ship designs are about 50% of the damage output of a dread in seige mode.

Dread with siege mode gets +650% damage to all weapons. All have atleast 3 weapons (minmatar having 4). 3 weapons * (1 + 6.5) = 3 weapons * 7.5 = 22.5 effective weapons on a 3 turret dreadnaught before adding gunnery skills, dread bonuses, or missile skills. In the case of the minmatar dread its actually 30 effective weapons.

These ships with the fire control module get a +150% damage bonus (as designed atm). That means 5 weapons * (1 + 1.5) = 5 weapons * 2.5 = 12.5 effective weapons. In the case of the minmatar one which has 6 weapons, its 15 effective weapons. Again that is before adding in skill bonuses and ship bonuses.

This leaves the minmatar dread at pretty much 50% of the effective weapons of a minmatar dread in siege mode and the rest at about 56% of the effective weapons of their dreadnaught counterpart. At an estimated 1/3 the cost of a dread, this ship may be more effective in damage in relation to cost, but it will not be able to tank as well as a dread, and with the current state of POS on sisi, it is possible for POS to kill dreads without player intervention since large weapons at a pos seem to target capital ships first and then work on smaller ships if there are no other valid capital ship targets in range. Battleships may be part of that list, but these ships have those changes in mind as well. These ships were also designed to potentially be able to be used to kill POS in high sec empire since they have no jump drives so they should be able to enter empire. That is why there is a small tank bonus on them.

While that may seem overpowered you should keep in mind a few things. The damage bonus on the fire control module is smaller, over time the fire control module burns more strontium than a siege mode, these ships are not immune to electronic warfare when using the fire control module (they can be jammed, webbed, scrambled, and the like), and they are reduced to one target at a time max under the current specs. I think that is more than enough handy cap to make up for the potential of them being over powered. Of course they also have very poor sensor resolution (just better than a current carrier but not by too much) so they take a long time to lock things (a couple sensor boosters gets them to tech one cruiser lock times if the tech 1 cruiser was not using a sensor booster of any type).

As for the sig radius, those seem like reasonable values too, i just picked something between BS (350 to 450ish range) and Carriers (950 to 1050ish range). I think those numbers would have to be tuned with in game testing though which is not something i can do unless CCP would send me a list of all the stats I need to provide to make a ship so they can get in game on the test server for testing and make them available.

@Gamesguy - sorry if my post sounded a little rude in response to you above. I was tired and it was late so I was a little cranky.

zentary
Posted - 2007.05.24 15:16:00 - [23]
 

oh no problem i didnt think it was rude i misunderstood what you first said so its ok and i guess i miss read about the fircontrol mod so thank you for clarifing that for me but i think they should get immune to ecetronic warfare not for the jamming and stuff i mean the sensor damping stuff cause you can just have a fleet of tech one frigs with the dreads and you could desamate those ships easily because of that mod it should be at least immune to some types of eletronic warfare like sensor damps and like all cap ships in my opinion the senosor damp part i mean

Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
Posted - 2007.05.25 19:47:00 - [24]
 

The only thing I would say about allowing a capital class ship into empire space is that you'd have to make it paper-thin to allow it - otherwise, we'll see gangs of these things sitting on gates in jita tanking concord.

However, I do like the idea of what's effectively a "frontline dreadnought" and support the principle, but personally I would give it a jump drive and simply make them smaller and less tought than the current dreads are.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2007.05.25 20:40:00 - [25]
 

that is true, tanking concord is bad.
Would it be possible to make concord react with a larger strike force against such ships? perhaps with one of their own? (with concord style damage, of course)
But also I believe that concord steals cap also. and perma-jamms you.

But i agree, totally. Although I would like to see a 25% tracking bonus for them all.
I wonder... these things would be interesting for level 4/5 missions, also... perhaps they will be 'the ship' for level 5's?

I love the idea. As long as you make a carrier-type ship of the same caliber \o/

Brantoc
PURE Legion
Posted - 2007.05.26 00:27:00 - [26]
 

Awsome idea, will never happen.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2007.05.26 08:19:00 - [27]
 

It would be nice to see a semi-capital ship with jump capabilities that can be used in highsec although it should be small enough to use gates as well. It would be a way for new players to experiment with cyno fields and find their uses/limitations before venturing their corp into lowsec and using them in hostile conditions. It also gives them the ability to get a couple for their corp to use as escorts when moving down to lowsec.

I would think it should still only have large turrets but a fair damage bonus to compensate plus the ability to hold a good tank. To avoid them being used to overcome the Freighter gank nerf, they should be insurable to Silver as standard, Gold with +8 standings with the station (personal rather than corp standings) but Platinum in lowsec and below.

Being able to use gates would allow a corp heading downsec to use them as escorts, especially for unarmed (or barely armed) ships like Indies and Transports and vulnerable ships like Freighters. Although it would give the campers something to think about if a couple jumped into the system and warped to within 100K from the gate to clear it for the rest to come through.


Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.05.26 10:35:00 - [28]
 

I'd rather see a pure gunboat for minmatar.

and give those ships not a poor siege mode but a plain 8 XL weapon systhems with dual dmg bonus to their weapon type.


they would be a good idea for tech 2 battleships. with a fitting bonus to XL pg and a tanking bonus to battleship skill and 2 dmg bonus to xl guns for the tec2 bs skill.



with those capital killers in game you would need a balance factor for the caps too. so a tier2 dreadnought without siege mode but with 8 xl guns and tracking/sig bonus should be introduced to fill the niche of a "destroyer" type vessel that shreds non-capitals.

Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.05.26 12:33:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 26/05/2007 12:32:31
While this seems like a great idea on paper... putting a 500-600 million mini-dread with serious firepower (capital guns Shocked) into the game will just make the blob problem worse and fleet engagements more lopsided.

A Tech 2 Logistics Battleship based on the Tier 1 BS could be cool.


CrestoftheStars
Caldari
Recreation Of The World
Posted - 2007.05.26 14:50:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Edited by: Futher Bezluden on 26/05/2007 12:32:31
While this seems like a great idea on paper... putting a 500-600 million mini-dread with serious firepower (capital guns Shocked) into the game will just make the blob problem worse and fleet engagements more lopsided.

A Tech 2 Logistics Battleship based on the Tier 1 BS could be cool.




i agree. no we just need the t2 bs which should be designed to take down cap ships.


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