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Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.05.07 21:56:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Dimmak Long
Quote:


Pirates don't play by Marquis of Queensbury rules. They remember the ultimate truth, the Marquis was a queen.


Wolfpack raiding like old u-boats during the first World War. Strike without warning, strike without mercy, with just an added element of profitability. This is the reality of EVE piracy.

Learn to fight it. Travel in convoys. Take escorts. Be aware the threat is out there and fight back.


Convoys carnt do anything in jita!!! havnt we just talked about this??? the ganker scans and has to kill in 10secs and under!! ther eis no fighting back there dead but ther alt is looting it all and nothing you can do..........
Fight back .. we are on about freighters you know no guns etc. those big things!!




Use another system. Set up shop in Perimeter, or Urlen, or New Caldari. Set up shop in The Citadel or Lonetrek.

If you're not going to fight, you're going to have to relocate.

Dimmak Long
Posted - 2007.05.07 22:11:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Grash Freedom
Edited by: Grash Freedom on 07/05/2007 21:31:55
Edited by: Grash Freedom on 07/05/2007 21:30:44
Originally by: Dimmak Long
Originally by: Grash Freedom
crafters??? imao

mate this is EVE not WoW, if you want to live/play in a fakeneverloseanything world, then eve is not for you

Empire ganking is perfectly fine, nowhere in eve you are safe
ffs people stop trying to make this game like the ones you just left!


Oh my god grash you read half the posts here and had to make the same stupid coment we decided 20 posts ago. was not true...
Again for people who carnt be arsed to read the whole post! i started this topic as an adult topic of converstation. I personaly am a pvper i dont do empire except to nip into rens and take a few cheap ships or nip to jita to sell a domi named item to get the best price! get over this wow thing people! I have never played wow and never will.
I have been Playing MMRPG's for over 12 years i started in beta ina sherons call one(WHERE I WAS THE ORIGINAL PVPER twitchy combat for the win) People reffer to others as nOObs and yet they have been gaming for 3 years etc.. its not about the fact you own a toon that is 10months older than the next man, its about the brian in the gamer and the experience and understand they have!!!

Okay back to reading what others posted over night lets hope someone with above 40 IQ joined in...



Did i said anywhere in my post that you are a WoW player? Did i call you a carebear? did i attacked you by any means? You play EVE, you make a post about game mechanics, although you have no clue how "crafters" are called here, yet you still have an opinion

a) You can call me a carebear, at least with this char, i am a "crafter" my self
b) The past 3 years i have lost about 8 bils from empire ganking (we had no freighter back then)
c) EvE is a game where competition take place! The end game of it is pvp, but all starts from mining/manufacturing/trading, when you make money you get better, why the hell do you think peeps gank ships in empire? there is no fun, there are logistics behind it, what the gankers want is to make you less rich, why? simple because when you have loss isks they gain, its not about greifing, its about who has more isks into his wallet, for it reminds me of RL, Eve is just like RL, there is a risk in every move you make, and nowhere you are safe!

Now do not tell me about iq and BS, stay in game for 4-5 month and you will understand what this game is about. so far you have bad experience from other bad composed games which at some point you get a GAME OVER, you will not get this in here

PS. i did read the whole post, maybe you should try read mine as well


Dude im glad you actualy made an effort to put together a good argument and thoughful reply! but you judged me again! "so far you have bad experience from other bad composed games which at some point you get a GAME OVER, you will not get this in here" ??? waht you on about really now? stay in game 4-5 months?? you clearly dont know how long ive been in game and i havnt had any bad experience! see you havnt read this through! i started this post as there was a post about someone building a gang of cheap domis to gank freighters.... and every time i have been through jita etc. there is gankers there and people ****ed off. so i thought it a good topic to talk about and get my personal few across... please read and try to understand where im coming from my op was not a cry or ***** from a carebear. its an adult conversation over a few i have!!

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2007.05.07 22:20:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Janu Hull


Use another system. Set up shop in Perimeter, or Urlen, or New Caldari. Set up shop in The Citadel or Lonetrek.

If you're not going to fight, you're going to have to relocate.

From New Caldari you are one hop from two (yes 2) other regions. From Perimeter you are 2 hops from New Caldari if you don't go through Jita. Most players will spend a little more in another system just to not have to go to Jita and its lag-fest.

Seems pretty logical to me, stay out of Jita if there are gank swarms ugh

Tiamara
Posted - 2007.05.07 22:37:00 - [94]
 

lol...

3 ppl decide to steal diamonds... so they grab their cars and destroy the car thats carrying the diamonds... police comes and destroys their cars... they get full insurance money for their cars and take the diamonds anyway.

Mac Creagors
Posted - 2007.05.07 22:53:00 - [95]
 

In high sec " it shall ŽNOT be possible to "GANK" any one.

Keep that **** in 0.4 and below Evil or Very Mad

wtf is concord ? CCP


Pherusa Plumosa
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:09:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
THERE IS NO DEFENSE FROM HIGH SEC SUICIDE GANKERS!!



There is no defense if you are afk, to lazy to scout, to stupid to use secure containers.


Fedacorr
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:10:00 - [97]
 

I realize it's probably impractical in code (or at least difficult), but...

The 'problem' here is not the ganking, it's that the ganker gets the rewards of their gank. Somehow, the cops come, but don't care about the stuff being stolen.

What if the game flagged cargo cans dropped in high-sec space by a destroyed ship to theft flag anyone who took from them... to EVERYone. Take from a can, and everyone around is suddenly your 'special friend'.

One thing to sacrifice that frigate or bare bones cruiser... Losing the frieghter that you bring in to haul off the loot, that would be painful.

Malena VXXI
Amarr
Persia Capital Investments Group
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:15:00 - [98]
 

to enligthen those who think the "frase: Crafters are a wow thing or soo please try grow some thing more then a mushroom between your ears.

Crafters are the general name for players who manufactoring and producing. In mmorpgs!

High sec space are a place where Ganking shall not be possible done.




Mac Creagors
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:22:00 - [99]
 

O another thing some one told me once

- put Stabbers on your low slot on your frieghter !

Shocked you need to drill a big hole some where so you *** get some X to breath you now !!

Nake
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:34:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Grash Freedom
there is no fun, there are logistics behind it, what the gankers want is to make you less rich, why? simple because when you have loss isks they gain, its not about greifing, its about who has more isks into his wallet, for it reminds me of RL, Eve is just like RL, there is a risk in every move you make, and nowhere you are safe!

Just to clear something up, at least for me and the gankers I know: Its never about making it personal or making anyone less rich, it is only about making yourself more rich. I choose my targets by cargo, not name or walletsize.

Aphotic Raven
Gallente
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:41:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 07/05/2007 23:39:41
OH ****ING NOES~!!!!!!!

Explain to me why you should not be rewarded for a suicide gank. In detail. Please.

Bael Don'adur
Posted - 2007.05.07 23:53:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Bael Don''adur on 08/05/2007 00:14:12
Edited by: Bael Don''adur on 07/05/2007 23:51:27
While I definitely don't think that high-sec should equal no combat, I do see a problem with the system as it is.

Basically its a loophole-exploit.

The philosophy behind High-sec is that if you do a criminal act then Concord will punish you. Right?

Well in the high-sec ganks there are 2 criminal acts. The first is the gank. Concord punishes people for that, no doubt. But the second criminal act, the really important part, the part where his non-combatant friend loots your stuff has no reppurcussions (wow that is mispelled) to it.

Two ideas off the top of my head. I don't know how well they would work, but just putting out the general Jist.

1) Make the emptying the loot can a criminal act, unless you are the pilot who died.

2) Concord will (for a nominal fee) transport the contents of your loot can to the nearest Concord station after you are killed. Edit: Actually this one makes more sense, and there is the same loophole exploit for 1) that there is already. Also this (#2) pretty much what would happen in RL, well accept you couldn't come collect your property after you were killed, but friends and family would.

It just doesn't make sense to me in a RL perspective. Guy comes up to me and shoots me. Cops show up and shoot him. While cops are shooting him, guys buddy walks up and empties my wallet, in full view of the cops.


Edit2: Now, I still think that the high-sec gank should/would happen, but it would only really be assasination type things. There would be no tangible profit for the killer outside of the damage done to the target. That, in and of itself, would be enough motivation for there to still be hits.

SiJira
Posted - 2007.05.08 01:31:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 07/05/2007 23:39:41
OH ****ING NOES~!!!!!!!

Explain to me why you should not be rewarded for a suicide gank. In detail. Please.



because then carebears arent safe !!

Jack Icegaard
The Omega Project
Posted - 2007.05.08 04:11:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Jack Icegaard on 08/05/2007 06:16:11

I like the risk/reward concept that CCP are building their game around. As the whole EVE world is one integrated economy, the risk/reward balance breaks when one can make big bucks in high sec without any risk what so ever.

Let me give an example from my personal experience in EVE. I started mining Kernite in Lonetrek low sec systems. This was very exciting as many targeted me on sight and i often managed to get away in the last second. Yet, i perceived it as being fairly profitable. Then i learned about jump clones and that i needed standings to use them so i started to run missions. Running L3 missions in cruisers were also rather exciting in the beginning as the opposition often proved more than i could handle. having played 3-4 months i bought a battleship as i now wanted to try L4 missions. And with my low skills i lost quite many battleships before i got the hang of it. So in all those ventures i had to take risks and suffer losses to gain my ISK reward.

But now i could grind L4 missions in Motsu all day with very little risk involved. Its profitable, riskfree and boring. The last months i have set up a base in low sec for mission running and exploration. Its a lot fun and the game is exciting again as i know i can be attacked at any moment.

The problem is -and here comes my point with this rant- that it seem to be financial stupidity not to stay in high sec.

In low sec i fit my ship for every eventuality. That means i don't leave any big holes in my tank. So my tank and weaponry is not optimized for the mission, hence less efficient mission running.

In high sec I'm very close to the big market hubs. That means i can sell my loot easily for nice prices. It is also very convenient to resupply anything i need. In low sec i have to transport my stuff a long distance and at a considerable risk. In high sec, there is also no problem to use any implants that i want as the risk of getting podded is very low and that is a big advantage.

The battleships i use are pimped with a lot of T2 and rigs so losing one of them would be costly. It just don't add up. The economic aspect of EVE gives me no incitement to leave the boring lag hole that is Motsu and surrounding systems.

With sanctuaries where you can grind big piles of ISKs with impunity and have the big market places conveniently around the corner, the risk/reward balance is badly broken.

That is maybe why CCP accepts suicide ganks, to patch up this glaring hole in the risk/reward concept. The idea of suicide attacks for profit is really poor game mechanics IMO. But in an integrated economy you cant have sanctuaries and still call it a PvP game.








SiJira
Posted - 2007.05.08 05:50:00 - [105]
 

thats a great take on it jack

but in the end money speaks louder than some concept that might not even hold true today

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.05.08 06:38:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Malena VXXI
to enligthen those who think the "frase: Crafters are a wow thing or soo please try grow some thing more then a mushroom between your ears.

Crafters are the general name for players who manufactoring and producing. In mmorpgs!

High sec space are a place where Ganking shall not be possible done.






You spelled "Games other than EVE" wrong. You are less unsafe in hi-sec, not perfectly protected.

The only place your ship is perfectly safe is in a station.

That's how it's meant to be; that's how the devs want it.

Get used to it.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.05.08 06:41:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Bael Don'adur
Edited by: Bael Don''adur on 08/05/2007 00:14:12
Edited by: Bael Don''adur on 07/05/2007 23:51:27
While I definitely don't think that high-sec should equal no combat, I do see a problem with the system as it is.

Basically its a loophole-exploit.

The philosophy behind High-sec is that if you do a criminal act then Concord will punish you. Right?

Well in the high-sec ganks there are 2 criminal acts. The first is the gank. Concord punishes people for that, no doubt. But the second criminal act, the really important part, the part where his non-combatant friend loots your stuff has no reppurcussions (wow that is mispelled) to it.

Two ideas off the top of my head. I don't know how well they would work, but just putting out the general Jist.

1) Make the emptying the loot can a criminal act, unless you are the pilot who died.

2) Concord will (for a nominal fee) transport the contents of your loot can to the nearest Concord station after you are killed. Edit: Actually this one makes more sense, and there is the same loophole exploit for 1) that there is already. Also this (#2) pretty much what would happen in RL, well accept you couldn't come collect your property after you were killed, but friends and family would.

It just doesn't make sense to me in a RL perspective. Guy comes up to me and shoots me. Cops show up and shoot him. While cops are shooting him, guys buddy walks up and empties my wallet, in full view of the cops.


Edit2: Now, I still think that the high-sec gank should/would happen, but it would only really be assasination type things. There would be no tangible profit for the killer outside of the damage done to the target. That, in and of itself, would be enough motivation for there to still be hits.



Historically, the first party to claim a wreck had the full legal right of salvage. Now the original owner might suspect that the salvager was in cahoots with the guys who wrecked his ship, but too bad unless he could prove it.

So much for history and so much for Earth. In New Eden, we have the legal tradition based more on Lex Talonis...

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2007.05.08 06:57:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Mac Creagors
In high sec " it shall ŽNOT be possible to "GANK" any one.

Keep that **** in 0.4 and below Evil or Very Mad

wtf is concord ? CCP





Sorry to pop that bubble...but Concord was never introduced to prevent people killing others in high sec. It was introduced as a penalty. If you kill/shoot someone in high-sec, you die. Not to stop anyone actually doing it and taking the penatly of death.

BarbecuedSquirrel
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.05.08 07:44:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Dimmak Long

I heard in a discusion a few things over the last few days.
1, well people should use a BS fitted with cargo expanders!!! YOU nOOb honestly this would mean no ship would ever be moved from where it was built except frigs and shuttles (one of the dumbest coments i have heard in a long time)



most freighters that get ganked are loaded with tech 2,faction modules,tags or blueprints.Who the **** wants to gank a freighter carrying repackaged ships or millions of minerals?Its like trying to rob the ****ing Heinz baked beans
factory.next time trade in a hardened bs/bc

fire 59
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.05.08 07:51:00 - [110]
 

Well if people had of stopped being lazy and ******ed in moving valuable stuff through a known danger spot, afk and in cheap t1 trash, perhap's they ganker's wouldn't be making so much money of other people's laziness.

It's not about the pvp dude, it's about making a mint on fat lazy people who cannot be bothered to adapt or put minimal effort in to stop/reduce the risk of getting ganked. I have never been ganked in empire with valuable's because (gasp ) , i take precaution's.


U'puauht
Minmatar
Quid Pro Quo
Posted - 2007.05.08 09:24:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Bael Don'adur
But the second criminal act, the really important part, the part where his non-combatant friend loots your stuff has no reppurcussions (wow that is mispelled) to it.

Looting someone else's wreck flags you for that character, and he's allowed to open fire on you without CONCORD interacting, so there are repercussions to "his non-combatant friends [looting] your stuff".
At least that's how it used to be, I've not been in CONCORD-protected space for a while...

Dimmak Long
Posted - 2007.05.08 09:39:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Originally by: Mac Creagors
In high sec " it shall ŽNOT be possible to "GANK" any one.

Keep that **** in 0.4 and below Evil or Very Mad

wtf is concord ? CCP







Sorry to pop that bubble...but Concord was never introduced to prevent people killing others in high sec. It was introduced as a penalty. If you kill/shoot someone in high-sec, you die. Not to stop anyone actually doing it and taking the penatly of death.


Oh my people just dont like to read the whole thread!! i know there is alot to read now but make an effort you wouldnt walk into a room and just start talking about random things in the middle of a converstation would you! you would look stupid hehehe well you jsut did that bro..
The whole point is in your exact words "Concord was introduced as a penalty" read again your own words "concord was introduced as a penalty" yep you just shoot your own statement... The point is there is no penalty the gankers can never loose!!! they take a minor sec hit loose a ship that they get insurance money on dropping there loss to about 10-20 mill and gain 100-400mil in loot. THERE IS NO PENALTY!!!

Dimmak Long
Posted - 2007.05.08 09:42:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: U'puauht
Originally by: Bael Don'adur
But the second criminal act, the really important part, the part where his non-combatant friend loots your stuff has no reppurcussions (wow that is mispelled) to it.

Looting someone else's wreck flags you for that character, and he's allowed to open fire on you without CONCORD interacting, so there are repercussions to "his non-combatant friends [looting] your stuff".
At least that's how it used to be, I've not been in CONCORD-protected space for a while...


But the guy that just lost his ship carnt shoot he would have to dock build a ship and get back out there... how long does it take an indy to pick up loot?? hmm 30-60seconds i carnt undock in jita in that time lol

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.05.08 09:49:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Aindrias
Originally by: Agent Li
Originally by: Aindrias
Yay... Eve, the game that rewards and promotes Suicide!

Most games.. um.. you want to avoid dying... but not this one! Try and see the billions of ISK and Fun to be Had!

->GROW UP<-


I'm sure that if you didn't have cloning of any kind, and you lost all your skills when you were podded (i.e., you really died when you died), people wouldn't be so quick to suicide.


I agree.. that was the point of my post. Non-Consentual PvP in High Sec should be war dec only. That's non consentual enough for high sec for those that are there.


Sure: as long as you restrict noob-corp members to trial-account ships.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.05.08 10:41:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Thesas

High sec ganking is for those who fear real challenge of their peers and only bet on the sure thing. Even noobs see it for what it is.



Piracy has nothing to do with "challenge."

It's a robbery not a competition.

Avoid the strong and attack the weak, that's warfare 101, read your Sun Tzu.

Helplessandlost
Minmatar
H A V O C
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2007.05.08 10:49:00 - [116]
 

4 years and this silly argument is still going on?

Eve=PVP that's the way it is and should be.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2007.05.08 10:52:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Dimmak Long
Originally by: Grash Freedom
crafters??? imao

mate this is EVE not WoW, if you want to live/play in a fakeneverloseanything world, then eve is not for you

Empire ganking is perfectly fine, nowhere in eve you are safe
ffs people stop trying to make this game like the ones you just left!


Oh I have been Playing MMRPG's for over 12 years i started in beta ina sherons call one(WHERE I WAS THE ORIGINAL PVPER twitchy combat for the win)


ROFL
what a ****

Tommy Vercetti
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.05.08 10:53:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: fire 59
Well if people had of stopped being lazy and ******ed in moving valuable stuff through a known danger spot, afk and in cheap t1 trash, perhap's they ganker's wouldn't be making so much money of other people's laziness.

It's not about the pvp dude, it's about making a mint on fat lazy people who cannot be bothered to adapt or put minimal effort in to stop/reduce the risk of getting ganked. I have never been ganked in empire with valuable's because (gasp ) , i take precaution's.




This.

Some players do not want to take responsibility for their actions. Loosing 5 bil hurts, it's hard to shoulder that blame so the whine machine gets fueled up and turned on the forums. Take precautions and you should never die in high sec. I know it's hard to accept but the sooner you do the sooner you'll stop being a high sec gankers isk printer.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.05.08 11:03:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Bael Don'adur

It just doesn't make sense to me in a RL perspective. Guy comes up to me and shoots me. Cops show up and shoot him. While cops are shooting him, guys buddy walks up and empties my wallet, in full view of the cops.


If you want realistic robbery, have concord show up 15 minutes after the gank and spend 2 hours at the crime scene eating donuts and asking you what color the hauler was that took your loot.

Cipher7
Posted - 2007.05.08 11:09:00 - [120]
 


Get a f*cking grip people.

Theres crime in Eve, theres crime in Tokyo, theres crime in New York City, theres crime in Paris, theres crime in London, theres crime in Jita, Rens, Oursalaert...

Right at this moment someone in Moscow is getting robbed.

It's a statistic. x % of haulers get through, y % get ganked.

What, you want crime free Eve?

A world without crime is fantasy not sci fi.

People are getting robbed in highsec and they SHOULD be getting robbed in highsec.

Why the f*ck are you even playing Eve if you're gonna whine about the existance of crime?


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