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blankseplocked Tick Boxes for market.
 
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Trovax
Amarr
Posted - 2007.04.26 15:29:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Trovax on 26/04/2007 15:26:00
Just a little idea. How about next to the 'Show only availible' tick box in the market screen, there be 2 others as well :

1) 'ITEMS I CAN USE' or 'USABLE ITEMS' - Show only items that your current character can use with the skills he has.

2) 'AFFORDABLE ITEMS' and 'CORP AFFORDABLE ITEMS' - Show only items that you can afford to buy with your current wallet or corp wallet if you have access to it.Question


Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.04.26 15:32:00 - [2]
 

Actually a dang good idea and shouldn't be TOO hard to implement either.

Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Eye of Osiris
EDGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.26 15:49:00 - [3]
 

Loves it.
I don't think it would be too difficult to implement either.
Love it.

/signed

Jawas
Gallente
Posted - 2007.04.26 19:57:00 - [4]
 

1 shouldn't be hard to do and a great idea.

2 will be a major problem because it would require the server to search every price in the market for every item to see if it's affordable before adding or removing it from the list of items, (how many unique item entries are there in the entire market?). It would cause unacceptable levels of lag due to the amount of market searches that are done every minute by users in the game. It would also take a long time just to display the list of items available to you, (long as in - go make a coffee, have a bath, get some sleep etc).


Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2007.04.26 20:53:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jawas

2 will be a major problem because it would require the server to search every price in the market for every item to see if it's affordable before adding or removing it from the list of items, (how many unique item entries are there in the entire market?). It would cause unacceptable levels of lag due to the amount of market searches that are done every minute by users in the game. It would also take a long time just to display the list of items available to you, (long as in - go make a coffee, have a bath, get some sleep etc).



Since the client downloads all the data as it is now anyway, the cleint can do a second query against the already client side recordset. The only additional server queries would be corp wallet amount and character wallet amount.

Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Eye of Osiris
EDGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.26 21:23:00 - [6]
 

2- this can be done client-side. As stated, it pulls the info for the market down and then searches by what you want. This is just one more (or two more) search parameters.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.04.26 21:23:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jawas
2 will be a major problem because it would require the server to search every price in the market for every item to see if it's affordable before adding or removing it from the list of items, (how many unique item entries are there in the entire market?). It would cause unacceptable levels of lag due to the amount of market searches that are done every minute by users in the game. It would also take a long time just to display the list of items available to you, (long as in - go make a coffee, have a bath, get some sleep etc).




Isn't this "affordable" search available in contracts allready? ugh

Trovax
Amarr
Posted - 2007.04.27 14:58:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Trovax on 27/04/2007 14:55:09
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Jawas
2 will be a major problem because it would require the server to search every price in the market for every item to see if it's affordable before adding or removing it from the list of items, (how many unique item entries are there in the entire market?). It would cause unacceptable levels of lag due to the amount of market searches that are done every minute by users in the game. It would also take a long time just to display the list of items available to you, (long as in - go make a coffee, have a bath, get some sleep etc).







Isn't this "affordable" search available in contracts allready? ugh


yes it is, but we arnt talkin contracts :) We are talkin market screen.


Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.04.27 15:52:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Trovax
yes it is, but we arnt talkin contracts :) We are talkin market screen.


Yes yes, but i meant that the "stress" on the system can't be that bad to put this into the market too, since it's allready in the contract system Very Happy

Trovax
Amarr
Posted - 2007.04.27 16:13:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Trovax on 27/04/2007 16:08:57
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Trovax
yes it is, but we arnt talkin contracts :) We are talkin market screen.


Yes yes, but i meant that the "stress" on the system can't be that bad to put this into the market too, since it's allready in the contract system Very Happy


Ah right. misunderstood. My bad :)


Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2007.04.27 18:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Trovax
yes it is, but we arnt talkin contracts :) We are talkin market screen.


Yes yes, but i meant that the "stress" on the system can't be that bad to put this into the market too, since it's allready in the contract system Very Happy


Compare the munumber of entries in the contract system to the number of entries in the market. Contracts are a drop in the ocean. Ie:

250 active contracts so that's 250 comparisons against your wallet.

2000 items as a rough figure, I know it's a lot more. An average of 20 sales in your region against each item. That's 40,000 comparisons against your wallet. Double it for corp wallet as well. Now multiply that by the number of people executing market searches every second.

19:10pm on 27th April with 24,455 players online.
Judge by the number of seconds it takes:
1. To load the complete market list 5 seconds.
2. To bring up a full list of items from a single group. 4 seconds just to load the group skills/mechanic into the groups list.
3. To select mechanic skill, 3 seconds to load the list of sellers (there are only 5 in my region).

That's 12 Seconds for just one item on a 8 meg broadband connection and you want to do it for 2,000+ items? ugh Now add insult to injury and try it in Jita Shocked


Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.04.27 18:30:00 - [12]
 

Well, you could ofcourse make the "affordable" calculate when you open a certain dropdown group.

Maybe? I'm no techie in these matters.

Arondos
Minmatar
Old Timers Guild
Posted - 2007.04.27 19:33:00 - [13]
 

Another thing I would like on the market. When I open the market window. Don't load anything till I select it. If the last thing I looked at was region and I open the market evrything grinds to a halt while the region loads. BUT WAIT! This time I only wanted to do a search. Why not load the market window and let me click one of the three tabs BEFORE it decides to load region? At least make it an option.

Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Eye of Osiris
EDGE Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.27 21:48:00 - [14]
 

Now I'm not sure, but I'm of the impression that this all ties together. Your runtime for loading the market, and the complaint about loading the entire thing before you actually want to look, AND the initial idea of having more filters in the market.

It appears that when you open the market it downloads a package and your client sorts it. The reason I say this is that it doesn't seem to take any longer whether or not I have "show available" checked.
If the client does the comparison- Download regional market info then run query, adding this extra parameter shouldn't impact performance.
If the server does the comparison- that's the problem right there :-) Computers are good at math. No reason to waste TQ's processor cycles and bandwidth on those comparisons. Let the client do it.

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
Posted - 2007.04.27 23:29:00 - [15]
 

EVEmon/QuickFit should help You.
No need to implement any of these two ideas in client.

Drizit
Amarr
Posted - 2007.04.28 11:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Yamichi Wiggin
Now I'm not sure, but I'm of the impression that this all ties together. Your runtime for loading the market, and the complaint about loading the entire thing before you actually want to look, AND the initial idea of having more filters in the market.

It appears that when you open the market it downloads a package and your client sorts it. The reason I say this is that it doesn't seem to take any longer whether or not I have "show available" checked.
If the client does the comparison- Download regional market info then run query, adding this extra parameter shouldn't impact performance.
If the server does the comparison- that's the problem right there :-) Computers are good at math. No reason to waste TQ's processor cycles and bandwidth on those comparisons. Let the client do it.


That implies downloading the entire market database for your own region first to your client. It would load the server just as much as the server doing the math to begin with and take just as much time when you're on a busy node. The bandwidth requirement to upload it all to you would cause lag for everyone else on that node.

Then you really have to take into consideration nodes that handle busy hub systems like Jita, it would take all day to download it considering the number of market transactions that take place there every second.

I would prefer to see a change in the way the market is handled by the server. Have a seperate server for the market and a delay until the next DT between putting an order on the market and it appearing as a buy/sell order. The transfer to the market could be done at DT. That would mean that all market transactions are done by a seperate server and would have no effect on the main game server. The main server market database is then just used as a storage area for buy/sell orders that are waiting to be propogated to the market server during DT. The market window then becomes a client within the main client and drops the connection to the market server again when closed. That puts it on a seperate connection to a completely different server on another IP address and therefore does not load the game server at all.

The additional bonus is that any work required on the market server doesn't need the whole of Eve to go down so you can still mine, rat or whatever but you just can't access the market until the market server goes back up.

Signaldog
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.04.29 03:36:00 - [17]
 

If it was there, i'd use it, if not, i won't...but a good idea I think.

Lala Ru
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.29 04:12:00 - [18]
 

The "Usable items" tick should be relatively easy to implement. Generally groups of items will have similar prerequisites. If a character can't fly Amarr frigates for example, that's a large class of items that can be eliminated right off the bat.

The "Affordable items" tick can also be easily implemented. Just keep a running list of the min price of an object per region, and update that value whenever a market transaction is made. Thus, no need to query the entire market.


In addition, the market tree is generally closed. Therefore, the items will only need to be checked if the user happens to expand that section of the market tree.

Trovax
Amarr
Posted - 2007.04.30 10:33:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Trovax on 30/04/2007 10:30:40
Originally by: Tonto Auri
EVEmon/QuickFit should help You.
No need to implement any of these two ideas in client.


The idea was to have everything in on screen. Not to keep having to switch between screens, save your XML file, upload it into the EVEmon, etc....

Some people may have a system that has fast graphics, or even a second rig/laptop sitting next to their main rig, some less fortunate peeps dont.

And i dont find EVEmon 'tidy' enough to be honest, which is why i dont use it.



Everything you want to do in game, should be availible..in game.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2007.04.30 10:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Trovax
Edited by: Trovax on 30/04/2007 10:30:40
Originally by: Tonto Auri
EVEmon/QuickFit should help You.
No need to implement any of these two ideas in client.


The idea was to have everything in on screen. Not to keep having to switch between screens, save your XML file, upload it into the EVEmon, etc....

Some people may have a system that has fast graphics, or even a second rig/laptop sitting next to their main rig, some less fortunate peeps dont.

And i dont find EVEmon 'tidy' enough to be honest, which is why i dont use it.

Everything you want to do in game, should be availible..in game.


Aye, off-game content should never nullify the need of things ingame.

No matter how good they might be.

Ovno ConSyquence
Amarr
RPS holdings
Posted - 2007.04.30 16:13:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri
EVEmon/QuickFit should help You.
No need to implement any of these two ideas in client.


Appart from neither evemon nor quickfit has access to the current prices of items which would make the affordable tick box entirely useless.....


 

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