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Ignash Trevere
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.04.04 12:17:00 - [1]
 

What is your opinion on these two ships, for general PvP:

I believe for solo, the Apoc is the pwner, it has a way better tank, good number of mid slots, and pretty good damage

However, the Geddon as it is cheaper is a good gankage platform, that needs no tank, and can be sacrificed in fleet blobage

P.S. Apoc is way sexier and doesnt look like a male sexual organ Very Happy

Timmeh 2000


ISD YARR
Interstellar Services Department
Posted - 2007.04.04 12:21:00 - [2]
 

Moved from General discussion to Ships and Modules - you will get far more responses in S&M.

Also, my 2c on those ships are:

Geddon for Gank | Apoc for Tank. I'd go for an Apoc for pvp as I like to be able to tank in PvP.

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.04.04 12:33:00 - [3]
 

yeah tanking in a geddon while putting out decent dmg is not easily done. but then again if u mount a good tank on the apoc then u can't get great dmg out of it anyway. personally i would say the apoc is good as for nos/tank setups, support roles and mining. geddon is an awesome dmg dealer so if the abaddon hadn't have come out then i'd be using a geddon all the time.


DE


.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.04.04 12:36:00 - [4]
 

The Apoc is better solo, but the Abaddon is way way way better than it solo[AC's + much better tank], and the Apoc, compared to other ships in the game is rather sub-par solo[its not going to take a tempest, Abaddon, Megathron, Dominix, Hyperion, or typhoon which are the prime solo boats]

The Geddon does a lot more damage in all situations.

Tanking on a Geddon = 2x 1600 RT+Eanm/eanm/dc

inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
Asomat Drive Yards
Posted - 2007.04.04 12:39:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Tanking on a Geddon = 2x 1600 RT+Eanm/eanm/dc
And here's the important bit. For a lot of fights that's going to offset the lack of a sustainable tank while continuing to put out excellent damage.

And for that reason, unless I don't need to damage (e.g. for baiting) I would always choose the Geddon over the Apoc. For baiting I'd probably take the Abaddon - the tank may not be sustainable but it's much stronger and still lasts a long time.

Come on Tux, overhaul our 'poccy!

Kay Rissa
Extreme Carebears
Posted - 2007.04.04 13:09:00 - [6]
 

I much prefer geddon because:

it dishes more DPS then apoc
it tanks better then apoc, just use passive tank with 1600 plates and 1 large rep.

argument that apoc can sustain dual rep tank + guns using injector isn't true.

Ignash Trevere
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.04.04 13:15:00 - [7]
 

Well, my Poc took on a raven and drake and won, we were all fully t2 fitted

inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
Asomat Drive Yards
Posted - 2007.04.04 13:26:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ignash Trevere
Well, my Poc took on a raven and drake and won, we were all fully t2 fitted
... And?

There's a difference between effective and more effective. All you've done is - anecdotally, leaving aside a huge range of tactical possibilities - proved the former.

Sylek
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.04.04 13:38:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Sylek on 04/04/2007 13:34:34
I know a lot of people say the 'geddon is better, or at least as good as the apoc. I used to think that too, but after spending a lot of time in both and owning lots of both I've almost changed my mind.

APOC:
8 HIGHS / 4 MEDS / 7 LOWS
8 Turret / 2 Launcher
19500 PG


GEDDON:
8 HIGHS / 3 MEDS / 8 LOWS
7 Turret / 0 Launcher
16500 PG


With a T2 RCU in the geddon it can probably get as much PG as the apoc if you've got nice skills. So that leaves 8 highs, 3 meds, 7 lows

Now, the geddon has a RoF bonus, 5% bonus to Large Energy Turret RoF and the Apoc has a 5% bonus to capacitor capacity per level.

When you're flying an apoc you're almost always going to fit one Heavy nos, so that 1 extra turret hardpoint doesn't help you. The launcher hardpoints don't help either since it doesn't have enough CPU to fit siege launchers or anything like that.

So the only thing the apoc has over the 'geddon is the cap and extra midslot, while the geddon has a 5% better RoF. In a one-on-one I think the apoc would definitely win, so long as it makes use of it's superior cap to keep tanking and neutralizing the 'geddon. In small gangs both ships would be useful, since the 'geddon is a better damage dealer while the apoc would be a better tackler/neutralizer and has an extra midslot that would usually be used for propulsion (after fitting scram, web, injector). In long range fights I would go for the apoc because of the ability to fit 8 long range guns (sure, with enough RCUs) and get nice cap recharge+sensor boosting in the mids.

I don't know if it's worth paying 40m more for the apoc, but in my experience my apocs have done much better than my geddons.

Mr Li
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2007.04.04 13:45:00 - [10]
 

gank > tank

both ships have roles. I prefer geddon for PvE because it's much cheaper and what's the point of doing something marginally better if it costs 66% more. For my ratting needs the geddon is the pinaccle of performance.

highs: 7x mega modulated pulse energy beam

mids: 3 x cap recharger II

Lows: LAR II, 2 x rat specific hardeners, 1 x EANM, 1x DCU, 3x Heatsink II

rigs: 3 x CCC I

drones don't really matter, i like mediums because for the NPCs lasers do enough damage and tackling NPCs suck

6375 cap at 273s recharge.

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2007.04.04 14:03:00 - [11]
 

Most people use their apocs to snipe,and the geddon is more gank closerange so geddon is obviously betterVery Happy

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.04.04 14:47:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ignash Trevere
Well, my Poc took on a raven and drake and won, we were all fully t2 fitted



lol dude u can't say stuff like that to make a point. my myrmidon took on 2 domis, brutix, myrmidon and rifter a couple of months ago. doesn't mean the ship is so good that it can do that, just means they were totally useless noobs with terrible fits.



DE



Beatrix Kindo
Posted - 2007.04.04 18:09:00 - [13]
 

everyone here seem to forget the larger drone bay of geddon..5 t2 heavy drones will win the fight i think

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.04.04 18:15:00 - [14]
 

Something else to consider

If you do not have to tackle, the Armageddon also tanks better than the Apoc. Since DHPs are so stupidly easy to fit you can easily fit an injected dual rep tank on the Geddon.

Which since the apoc doesnt have a tanking bonus wont tank any more than the Geddon and will still do less damage due to the drones. The Extra low slot will win the day in tanking.

Apoc wins solo simply because it can fit mwd/web/scram/inj, if the Geddon doesnt have to worry about the web, scram, or mwd, then it will produce a better tank and better gank.

Marquis Dean
Caldari
Indigo Fade
Posted - 2007.04.04 18:17:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Beatrix Kindo
everyone here seem to forget the larger drone bay of geddon..5 t2 heavy drones will win the fight i think


A 125m drone bay is a very powerful asset that alot of people forget. I always use the geddon in PvP (those rare times I don't use a BC) because 8 x megapulse and 5 x Berserkers is a great damage distribution range.

Kerdrak
GreenSwarm
Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.04.04 18:48:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Mr Li
gank > tank

both ships have roles. I prefer geddon for PvE because it's much cheaper and what's the point of doing something marginally better if it costs 66% more. For my ratting needs the geddon is the pinaccle of performance.

highs: 7x mega modulated pulse energy beam

mids: 3 x cap recharger II

Lows: LAR II, 2 x rat specific hardeners, 1 x EANM, 1x DCU, 3x Heatsink II

rigs: 3 x CCC I

drones don't really matter, i like mediums because for the NPCs lasers do enough damage and tackling NPCs suck

6375 cap at 273s recharge.


Using 3 rigs in your geddon is against your argument of "cheaper the better". Apoc is better to rat unless you kill Shanshas, you can use Apoc in any kind of NPCs:
Against Guristas/Serpentis: Railguns
Against Angels: Artillery
Against Blood Raiders/Shanshas: Lasers

And using any kind of turrets you can turn on you hardeners and repairer 24/7 without any kind of rig.

Geddon for small gang PvP
Apoc for PvE or Solo PvP
Abaddon for anything you want...

Angus McLean
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.04.04 19:00:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Something else to consider

If you do not have to tackle, the Armageddon also tanks better than the Apoc. Since DHPs are so stupidly easy to fit you can easily fit an injected dual rep tank on the Geddon.

Which since the apoc doesnt have a tanking bonus wont tank any more than the Geddon and will still do less damage due to the drones. The Extra low slot will win the day in tanking.

Apoc wins solo simply because it can fit mwd/web/scram/inj, if the Geddon doesnt have to worry about the web, scram, or mwd, then it will produce a better tank and better gank.


Just because the Geddon can do good damage while tanking doesnt mean it tanks 'better' per se, just means its more rounded. The geddon has an extra low, but I find that a higher cap amount more than equalizes this imbalance.

The geddon has trouble running 2 reps and actives hardeners with an injector. On the other hand the Apoc doesnt have these issues if your cap skills are from 4-5 with battleship 5.

Sure I like damage, but the apoc still tanks 'better' I would say due to its higher armor HP and more cap. Just depends on what you consider better, straight ganking, straight tanking or fairly good at both. Surprised

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.04.04 23:00:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 04/04/2007 22:59:04
Edited by: Goumindong on 04/04/2007 22:56:37
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Mr Li
gank > tank

both ships have roles. I prefer geddon for PvE because it's much cheaper and what's the point of doing something marginally better if it costs 66% more. For my ratting needs the geddon is the pinaccle of performance.

highs: 7x mega modulated pulse energy beam

mids: 3 x cap recharger II

Lows: LAR II, 2 x rat specific hardeners, 1 x EANM, 1x DCU, 3x Heatsink II

rigs: 3 x CCC I

drones don't really matter, i like mediums because for the NPCs lasers do enough damage and tackling NPCs suck

6375 cap at 273s recharge.


Using 3 rigs in your geddon is against your argument of "cheaper the better". Apoc is better to rat unless you kill Shanshas, you can use Apoc in any kind of NPCs:
Against Guristas/Serpentis: Railguns
Against Angels: Artillery
Against Blood Raiders/Shanshas: Lasers

And using any kind of turrets you can turn on you hardeners and repairer 24/7 without any kind of rig.

Geddon for small gang PvP
Apoc for PvE or Solo PvP
Abaddon for anything you want...


Geddon rats angels better than an Apoc.

5x Heavy Drones + 7x Artillery > 2x heavy, 2x med, 1x light + 8 Artillery

And well, due to the 5 heavy drones, it rats everything better than an Apoc

ED: Angus

If the Apoc has a MWD and the Geddon doesnt, then the Apoc has similar capacitor to the Geddon. If the Geddon wants to equalize if the Apoc doesnt have an MWD he can stick a CPR in the lows[about 33% cap regen], which isnt as nice as the Apocs size bonus but it will make a large difference.

Under other circumstances the extra low of the Geddon allows it to fit a stronger resistance based tank which means it has to use the reppers less, which means in a high stress enviornment such as PvP it will last longer.

Draec Sjet
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.04.05 01:36:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Draec Sjet on 05/04/2007 01:40:56
Edited by: Draec Sjet on 05/04/2007 01:34:25
Originally by: Marquis Dean
Originally by: Beatrix Kindo
everyone here seem to forget the larger drone bay of geddon..5 t2 heavy drones will win the fight i think


A 125m drone bay is a very powerful asset that alot of people forget. I always use the geddon in PvP (those rare times I don't use a BC) because 8 x megapulse and 5 x Berserkers is a great damage distribution range.


you can't fit 8 turrets on a 7 turret ship.

apoc is a pve or sniper ship because it has the cap to use 2 reps or fire tachyons

geddon has better dmg and rof bonuses, so you should fit to work with the bonuses given. try using Dual Heavy Pulses and a passive tank. or, stick on a Large Rep and power it with a cap injector and 800's, leaving yo also harder to NOS.

125m3 dronebay is really useful, 5 Ogre IIs pack a lot more DPS to your ship, or alternativly on small gang ops you ca fit 5 Heavy Rep drones which can do some serious repping of a teammate who'd been called primary.

the thing is really, there is no right setup; play around with it and see what fits best and what's sustainable.

Originally by: Goumindong


If the Apoc has a MWD and the Geddon doesnt, then the Apoc has similar capacitor to the Geddon. If the Geddon wants to equalize if the Apoc doesnt have an MWD he can stick a CPR in the lows[about 33% cap regen], which isnt as nice as the Apocs size bonus but it will make a large difference.

Under other circumstances the extra low of the Geddon allows it to fit a stronger resistance based tank which means it has to use the reppers less, which means in a high stress enviornment such as PvP it will last longer.


no, the issue with the geddon is that the capacator size and recharge rate are too low to sustain using both guns and a rep. the apoc will always win a tanking competition against the geddon, but the geddon can outdamage it.

Basics
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.04.05 02:34:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Basics on 05/04/2007 02:31:28
love the geddon. 4 days until bs lvl5.. mmm can't wait to see what it will do now

4xtachy t2 1x heavy nos
cap rechangers
full tank

dronesssssss

AWU is a wonderful thing

Empero
Amarr
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2007.04.05 04:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Basics
Edited by: Basics on 05/04/2007 02:31:28
love the geddon. 4 days until bs lvl5.. mmm can't wait to see what it will do now

4xtachy t2 1x heavy nos
cap rechangers
full tank

dronesssssss

AWU is a wonderful thing


Worst fitting ever.
What exactly do you wanna kill with that setup?
You are training BS to Level 5 and use only 4 Guns on the geddon?

To the OP:

Geddon all the way. Apoc is a tank beast, but you will be supprised how much damage a good skilled geddon pilot dishes out. If you want to tank the geddon use Dual Pulse/Beams.

mama guru
Gallente
Thundercats
Posted - 2007.04.05 04:46:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Empero
Originally by: Basics
Edited by: Basics on 05/04/2007 02:31:28
love the geddon. 4 days until bs lvl5.. mmm can't wait to see what it will do now

4xtachy t2 1x heavy nos
cap rechangers
full tank

dronesssssss

AWU is a wonderful thing




Worst fitting ever.
What exactly do you wanna kill with that setup?
You are training BS to Level 5 and use only 4 Guns on the geddon?

To the OP:

Geddon all the way. Apoc is a tank beast, but you will be supprised how much damage a good skilled geddon pilot dishes out. If you want to tank the geddon use Dual Pulse/Beams.





A wise man once said: Thou shalt not feed the trolls.

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.04.05 08:33:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: DarkElf on 05/04/2007 08:44:32
Originally by: mama guru
Originally by: Empero
Originally by: Basics
Edited by: Basics on 05/04/2007 02:31:28
love the geddon. 4 days until bs lvl5.. mmm can't wait to see what it will do now

4xtachy t2 1x heavy nos
cap rechangers
full tank

dronesssssss

AWU is a wonderful thing




Worst fitting ever.
What exactly do you wanna kill with that setup?
You are training BS to Level 5 and use only 4 Guns on the geddon?

To the OP:

Geddon all the way. Apoc is a tank beast, but you will be supprised how much damage a good skilled geddon pilot dishes out. If you want to tank the geddon use Dual Pulse/Beams.





A wise man once said: Thou shalt not feed the trolls.


i hardly think he can be accused of trolling for saying that's a bad (edit spelling Smile ) fit. seriously. i could tank 4 tachys with no dmg mods in any bs i have for so long that i would probably get bored. i think he was helping the guy


DE



LordChaos
Amarr
SandStorm.
Posted - 2007.04.05 09:21:00 - [24]
 

i solo with geddon very dam well

i can even take a nos Domi and a raven at the same time and win easy :)

Domi dual rep cannot tank Geddon dps well with my skills :)

geddon owns apoc anyday :)

abaddon owns apoc anyday :) everyone owns the apoc lol

but apoc is still good when it comes to fleet battles but the aba came out and the apoc was lost in space.


Gasi Kobayashi
Naughty 40
Gunmen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2007.04.05 11:57:00 - [25]
 

Geddon ftw.
I can tank and do nice damage on my geddon
it has 60-80 % resistance with dual large rep on armor, it does around 700 dps, i can scramble, mwd, web, cap boost, and its not so expensive ship + fitting at all
it can do all that apoc can do + damage. I dont really see the point in flying apoc unless for pure tank.

Danae Uriaal
Caldari
Carebear 'R Us
Posted - 2007.04.05 17:29:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Gasi Kobayashi
Geddon ftw.
I can tank and do nice damage on my geddon
it has 60-80 % resistance with dual large rep on armor, it does around 700 dps, i can scramble, mwd, web, cap boost, and its not so expensive ship + fitting at all
it can do all that apoc can do + damage. I dont really see the point in flying apoc unless for pure tank.


Firstly, you cannot mwd,scramble,web and cap boost all at the same time on your geddon.

But, I'd still go with the geddon
I basically build the ship around 7 dual heavy beam II's and go from there.

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.04.05 18:09:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Timmeh 2000
you will get far more responses in S&M.


Bring out the gimp. Wink

Inquis Eisenhorn
Viziam
Posted - 2007.04.05 19:27:00 - [28]
 

A nos geddon is pretty cool, it can fit more nos than a domi and tank possibly better.

Basics
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.04.05 21:17:00 - [29]
 

try putting on 7 tachys t2 with a full tank in the low with a 1600mmt2 plate on. i hit from 350-1986(highest hit ) per gun. with my sniper set up i insta popped a blackbird. my tank set up i killed a dictor with drones 2 AF, maller and had one (out of two ravens) into low armor when i died.

Mo adib
The Fimbriani
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.04.07 02:55:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Basics
try putting on 7 tachys t2 with a full tank in the low with a 1600mmt2 plate on. i hit from 350-1986(highest hit ) per gun. with my sniper set up i insta popped a blackbird. my tank set up i killed a dictor with drones 2 AF, maller and had one (out of two ravens) into low armor when i died.


7 tachyons tech 2 with full tank and 1600mm t2(the one with worse fittings but same stats as tungsten I believe) how do you fit all that? or do you consider a full tank to be 5 slots with 3 RCU 2's?

not being a smartass, I am genuinely interested in how you do that


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