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Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.03 16:06:00 - [1]
 

I've tried a bit of this, admittedly only in 0.5's in Empire so far, but here are my thoughts;

1. Probes are too big. Volume could do with a serious reduction

2. Guristas hideouts - why are the despawn trigger structures 200km away? All this creates is people not killing them, meaning the spawn is still there to find, but has nothing in it. Result ; unsatisfying & disappointing gameplay.

3. Overnerfed in high sec - yes, I know you want to maintain "risk vs reward", but exploration in high sec currently COSTS more money than you EARN from it. New players experimenting with this system are going to be put off it very quickly

4. Suggest introduction of a claims office...once you find the site, you can register ownership. This would give you a claim certificate, which becomes a key for the gate - works in the same way as the tag for bonus stages of extravaganzas. If you find a site that has already been claimed, their should be some flag on it somehow to tell you so. Claim certificates could then be copied & sold (copying would be a one time operation, would destroy the original and create a maximum of five copies, each one clearly saying "copy 1/5" etc on it...thus sales value for certificates that were copied less would be higher). (I realise not all sites have gates...not sure what to do about that)

The last one would give better support for DEDICATED explorers...those who want to find the sites, but are not set up to exploit them for themselves.

Other than that, it seems to be a good addition...I like the concept of "finding your own content"

FuzzBuzz
Caldari
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2007.04.03 17:20:00 - [2]
 

yes the size needs to come down, make them just bigger or small than recon probes and adjusted the launchers to compensate, id love to have 25mc3 of probes and the rest dedicated to storage :D

R3aliti
Posted - 2007.04.03 18:08:00 - [3]
 

When this first came out I was under the impression that the exploration would be for more than hidden complexes. I actually believed we would be able to find hidden belts and maybe a conquerable station or a damaged station that could be massively salvaged/repaired. Then I actually believed that this would be available in empire .8 - .5
Then it came to me a revelation from the Gods. Scanning is just another PVP tool to find ships to blow up, and here I though it would be something useful for the NON-PVP players.
Yet another revelation, this whole game is all about PVP and anything else is just background noise to be ignored.

Disappointment once again sets in after training the skills to do this. Oh well, back to mining and building.

R3 Wink


Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.03 18:31:00 - [4]
 

R3aliti - hidden belts = gravimetric sigs....or so I'm told...haven't found one yet.

Vordark
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.04.03 18:50:00 - [5]
 

I did the exploration thing for two days, all in 0.5 - 0.8 systems off the major trade routes and wracked up between 40 and 60 million in faction mods. Probably cost a total of about 10 million in probes, so unless something has changed in the last month, it's profitable in high sec.

The only reason I stopped is because I just don't have the attention span to warp around, make bookmarks, drop probes, and spam the scan button while hoping the target isn't in a blindspot. :)

Nye Jaran
Posted - 2007.04.03 20:08:00 - [6]
 

Found a few hidden belts (gravimetric) and a few hacking / salvaging sites (radar, iirc), and one two-stage plex.

The belts where in low-sec and hacking sites where in low-sec. The hacking sites where kind of crappy, but the belts yielded 50k gneiss each time.

The two stage plex was a .6 or .7 system. It wasn't anything special, although it did have some nice roids in it. Too bad the gate was glitched Twisted Evil, and wouldn't let Mining Barges pass (Elite Mining Barges, though, no problem), and you couldn't get anyone to warp to you for some reason (tried that and got an error, don't remember what it was, this is back a couple of months ago).


Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.03 23:44:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Vordark
I did the exploration thing for two days, all in 0.5 - 0.8 systems off the major trade routes and wracked up between 40 and 60 million in faction mods. Probably cost a total of about 10 million in probes, so unless something has changed in the last month, it's profitable in high sec.
Either you were dmaned lucky, or I'm damned UNlucky. It's not that I'm not finding the sites...but when I am, there's nothing there worth having...a handful of salvage components (I'd get 10x more from even the smallest level 4 mission), some Guristas Arrogators to shoot...and as I said, haven't found a Grav sig yet so can't comment - but based on what I've seen I'm expecting Veldspar.

This is all in 0.5 systems...some busy, some not...

R3aliti
Posted - 2007.04.04 01:15:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: R3aliti on 04/04/2007 01:12:25
hidden belts = gravimetric sigs – yes

To expand upon this. I bought the entire probe BPO set, researched them and trained the skills and even trained up to pilot an Arazu just for this effort. Then the patch came and I was all ready to go find some STUFF. I spent the better part of 3 weeks using all 4 of the probe types and the new multispectral probe and found nothing. Went through a lot of .8 - .5 systems in three weeks and worked them very carefully not to have blind spots. Still nothing.

Then I found a forum post stating that the empire implementation of the scanning had been nerfed and scanning was now only useful for finding hidden enemy ships. I was a bit miffed but then again this is EVE. I have been here since day one and will be here till they turn the servers off. I would like to see it happen just a little more often that things are completed the way they were originally presented.

/Rant On

And I had my heart so set on finding maybe 10 hidden unmarked rings that were not macro mined into a trash pile of Veldspar. Not that I would say you couldn’t find any such a belt, but I most certainly have not seen any in over a year.

Yes, I know, Risk Vs Reward – go to non-empire - join a large corporation. I have gathered way too many resources in this game by myself and I am not about to go throw them all away to some large corporation or to some PVP character who has half my skill points, but can do only one thing in one ship - blow stuff up. This game is far too rich an experience to spend all of my time blowing stuff up. Yet that is where the concentration of the game is. Sure would be nice if those in charge would take a look at the larger scope of the game and do things to keep it alive rather than place and ignore.

/Rant Off

R3 Confused


Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2007.04.04 01:44:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Blane Xero on 04/04/2007 01:41:06
i have done exploration a total of 4 times in one system (yes...4) and have either been lucky, or you have been sadly unlucky

first 2 times i found a drone DeD and an acheaology site (both in the same system,)
next day i scanned the system, 2 sigs again, and found an omber field with 350k to yeild, i couldnt find the second though...i scanned every planet, corner, bookmark i had between plannets just incase, couldnt find it :) oh well, and remember this was in 0.7, all in the SAME system. try telling me exloration is no good, yeah pprobes are bulky, and they shouldnt be able to find anything other than cosmic sigs imo. but oh well.

Exploration is rather good allround though, probes thing would be great.

I've exerienced a couple of instances where i find exploration sites that are completely empty to start with, (the drone DeD and arch sites had both been had, and somehow not despawned)

Scan on!!!

Callthetruth
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.04 03:02:00 - [10]
 

boosting the total seeded plexes would be good but CCP instead or just boosting whats in em, amarr space seems to be the least farmed try down there

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2007.04.04 07:50:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Callthetruth
boosting the total seeded plexes would be good
Actually I don't want that...I don't want complexes littering every system...I think the effort to find them is currently about right...but the rewards from them need to be greater...and the structures yuo kill to despawn them need ot be closer to the damn starting point...200km away? Who the hell is going to bother when they have already taken everything the site is going to offer?

Xplained
Caldari
Geese Jugglers
Posted - 2007.04.04 09:53:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
R3aliti - hidden belts = gravimetric sigs....or so I'm told...haven't found one yet.


tried exploring for 2 days and already found 2 gravi hidden belt and also came accross a gravi sig which led to a expedition and drop of faction loot..

Size of probes are okay, i can have 5 of each probe in cargo which is more than effiecent in my eyes


Ladyah Liandri
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.04.04 10:33:00 - [13]
 

What's really annoying is the fact that often enough you get close to 1+ AU piece of cake and then for unknown reasons your 2 AU probe just refuses to find anything within their lifetime.

No signature found in 18 scans ... what crappy scanning technology is that?




Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.04.04 11:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ladyah Liandri
What's really annoying is the fact that often enough you get close to 1+ AU piece of cake and then for unknown reasons your 2 AU probe just refuses to find anything within their lifetime.

No signature found in 18 scans ... what crappy scanning technology is that?



Chance based crappy scanning technology. It's really annoying.Evil or Very Mad

Only things you can possibly do to alleviate that is up your astrometric triangulation skill and set up probes to overlap.


dor amwar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.04.04 11:08:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ladyah Liandri
What's really annoying is the fact that often enough you get close to 1+ AU piece of cake and then for unknown reasons your 2 AU probe just refuses to find anything within their lifetime.

No signature found in 18 scans ... what crappy scanning technology is that?


that's what gets me. of my total 4 or 5 attempts, 4 just disappered ... poof. the one i did find was a grav sig. 5 roids of omber and a droid. poped and salvaged droid, gotta can. opened the can got 2 mins. will keep trying.

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.04.04 11:11:00 - [16]
 

Exploration probes are larger so that they don't fit in recon probe launchers. I carry a decent array of scan probes in my imicus and it's not a significant use of cargo space.

Calidor Droks
Caldari
No Joy Corp
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2007.04.04 11:18:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Calidor Droks on 04/04/2007 11:23:20
I've had a run of bad luck the past few days. I found a Unknown sig ' Chemical Factory ' which led me on a drone expedition which was a waste of time. The time vs reward, I'd be better off running a lvl 3 mission and not waste hours scanning.

At the moment I've not made any profit from it but I know there's profit to be had, it's just a matter of time. One good Kernite/Omber belt and I'll be in profit.
I found an Omber belt almost mined out, the guy in there said afterwards he a 40mil worth of ore from it.

I'm gonna stick with it for a few more days, I've invested time in the skills and ISK in a Buzzard I'm confident I'll get a returnRolling Eyes

Thanx to DNightmare for the info below

Gravimetric -> Hidden Asteroid Belts
Info: There may even be a chance that Faction NPCs show up and drop Faction Items/Implants

Magnetrometric -> Profession Site, mostly ArcSal (Archaology & Salvaging)
Loot: T2 Rig BPCs, Datacores, common & rare Salvaged Materials

LADAR -> Complexes & Gas Clouds (There are also reports about RADAR Gas Clouds, so they don't seem to have a fixed sig. type)
Complexes most of the time escalate when you shoot the Structures in the second Stage

RADAR -> Profession Site, mostly Hacking
Loot: Enc. Skillbooks, Decryptors, Interface BPCs & Components

Unknown: So far, they seem to be Fighting Complexes (Most of the time Drone ones, but not always)

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.04.04 11:20:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
I've tried a bit of this, admittedly only in 0.5's in Empire so far, but here are my thoughts;

1. Probes are too big. Volume could do with a serious reduction


Amen to that. Probe size could stand to be reduced at least by a half. Even that wouldn't allow you to prestock your hold with enough to track down all that many sites.

Originally by: Grey Area

2. Guristas hideouts - why are the despawn trigger structures 200km away? All this creates is people not killing them, meaning the spawn is still there to find, but has nothing in it. Result ; unsatisfying & disappointing gameplay.


Not true. Kill the structure and see if you get an escalation.

Originally by: Grey Area

3. Overnerfed in high sec - yes, I know you want to maintain "risk vs reward", but exploration in high sec currently COSTS more money than you EARN from it. New players experimenting with this system are going to be put off it very quickly


Yes and no. I find it very amusing that people are tripping over themselves to find radar sites and completely blowing off the unknowns. Radar sites aren't really worth it in high sec imo considering the amount of time needed to track them down.

Gravemetric sites are about right I think. Only thing wrong with them is what is wrong with mining in general at the moment.

Originally by: Grey Area

4. Suggest introduction of a claims office...once you find the site, you can register ownership. This would give you a claim certificate, which becomes a key for the gate - works in the same way as the tag for bonus stages of extravaganzas. If you find a site that has already been claimed, their should be some flag on it somehow to tell you so. Claim certificates could then be copied & sold (copying would be a one time operation, would destroy the original and create a maximum of five copies, each one clearly saying "copy 1/5" etc on it...thus sales value for certificates that were copied less would be higher). (I realise not all sites have gates...not sure what to do about that)


Not sure how I feel about this one. I've had the same sort of thoughts before when I've tracked down a site that's already been cleared, but that's more a problem with a buggy site type that isn't clearing properly. There's still a few site types that aren't clearing like they should, but once that's fixed I don't think it will be a problem.

I sort of enjoy the competition. Racing to find and clear a site before the next guy. So I'll agree with you on this one, but only for gravemetric / roid sites.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.04.04 11:47:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Calidor Droks
I've had a run of bad luck the past few days. I found a Unknown sig ' Chemical Factory ' which led me on a drone expedition which was a waste of time. The time vs reward, I'd be better off running a lvl 3 mission and not waste hours scanning.

At the moment I've not made any profit from it but I know there's profit to be had, it's just a matter of time. One good Kernite/Omber belt and I'll be in profit.
I found an Omber belt almost mined out, the guy in there said afterwards he a 40mil worth of ore from it.

I'm gonna stick with it for a few more days, I've invested time in the skills and ISK in a Buzzard I'm confident I'll get a returnRolling Eyes


Forgot about the drone sites. I've yet to find a drone site that was worth the trouble.

WORD OF CAUTION: If you find Haunted Yard site, be very careful. The initial stage of that is completely over done and many people have lost multiple ships doing it. Can only get cruisers or smaller into it and way too many drones spawn at once. Whatever you do, don't take your probing ship into it. I've had best luck using a well tanked Hawk to clear this one solo.

As far as Unknown sites in general, the faction ones can be well worth it. The drone ones are disapointing at best. At least so far anyway.



 

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