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VinceNoir
Amarr
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:46:00 - [1]
 

Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change because of stuff written on these forums, be it from alt trolls or supposed 'news reporters' spreading propaganda for the side that their main supports. We all know these forums are a great propaganda tool (especially CAOD) and that enough news reporting and alt trolling can change peoples opinion on a situation even if all the information they're basing that opinion on is total bull****.

So what I want to ask the eve public, or rather the eve forum *****s that frequent this section of the forums that we all love is how did these forums become so influential that the general eve publics opinion of an entire alliance/coalition could be flipped. I'm talking about goons/RA/everyone else jumping on the '*snip*'. Not half a year ago this was a coalition that was hated throughout New Eden for exploiting game mechanics (Logoffski/onksi node crashing etc) for forum spamming (Not just eve-o they did it to ISS and I would assume other alliances with some pretty terrible images) and total nubtard behaviour (Making fun of someone dying in RL anyone?). I think we'd all agree that we don't want to see someone like that controlling Eve.

Now I don't see this happening at all I don't think BoB/Lv will allow it. Hell, I'm not going to allow it. But you guys need to ask yourselves if you want to sit back and wait it out or if you want to do what some alliances (YouWhat, Chorus of Dawn etc.)are already doing and jumping on the anti **** Train Pain Train and give them some of their own medicine?

Now I feel it's time to don my flame ******ant jump suit and hit the 'Post New Topic' button.

Bon Ali
Caldari
Bon's Ecological Recycling
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:48:00 - [2]
 

wow, that sure is a post alright! congrats!

i highly doubt anyone on the *snip* wants to be 'the good guys'

sakana
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:49:00 - [3]
 

sadly, so many alliances these days are reporting using dodgy tactics these days, although i cannot confirm or deny this...people want to remove BoB for a different reason I believe.

Patch86
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:52:00 - [4]
 

These are *the* EVE ONLINE Fora, the only place where every single subscribed player can read and post (bans not withstanding) about in game events.

If theres a huge forum outcry about something, its not the forum "influencing" players- the forum IS the players. That outcry WAS the players opinion.

So take the anti-BoB sentiment thats so popular at the moment. Its not that a few forum *****s posted "BoB are evil!" and then all the players were swayed to this opinion by reading it. Its that people decided "BoB are evil!" and then posted about it Razz

Or rather, SOME people did. Its not like there aren't enough people holding the other view point aswell. As is life.

welsh wizard
Caldari
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:52:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: welsh wizard on 07/03/2007 00:52:09
Destroy BoB because they're the (self proclaimed) strongest.

Simple.


Luthien Firefoot
Caldari
V I R I I
Merciless.
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:54:00 - [6]
 

Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.


Lister Black
Caldari
Pyrrhus Sicarii
The Church.
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:54:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Lister Black on 07/03/2007 00:55:26
Originally by: Patch86
These are *the* EVE ONLINE Fora, the only place where every single subscribed player can read and post (bans not withstanding) about in game events.

If theres a huge forum outcry about something, its not the forum "influencing" players- the forum IS the players. That outcry WAS the players opinion.

So take the anti-BoB sentiment thats so popular at the moment. Its not that a few forum *****s posted "BoB are evil!" and then all the players were swayed to this opinion by reading it. Its that people decided "BoB are evil!" and then posted about it Razz

Or rather, SOME people did. Its not like there aren't enough people holding the other view point aswell. As is life.


I disagree. Probably less than 10% (hell, probably less than 5%) of EvE players post in these forums. I highly doubt that the people that post here represent the majority of EvE players. They're simply the most vocal (which should tell you something about how much the general EvE populace cares about these matters).

Elianora
Gallente
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
Posted - 2007.03.07 00:56:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Elianora on 07/03/2007 00:53:12
1st - lame tactics? Each and every alliance used it. May it be logoffski or whatever. And sorry - not alliance but the members. Cuz every alliance states they are good and dont do anything.
2nd - You really thing its coinsidence that Youwhatever and Chorous declare on same day the fall of LV defenses is announced? Looks more like one of Molle's cards to rise morale after the southern front collaps.
3d - ahh doesnt reallt matter

Patch86
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:02:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Patch86 on 07/03/2007 01:00:40
Originally by: Lister Black
Edited by: Lister Black on 07/03/2007 00:55:26
Originally by: Patch86
These are *the* EVE ONLINE Fora, the only place where every single subscribed player can read and post (bans not withstanding) about in game events.

If theres a huge forum outcry about something, its not the forum "influencing" players- the forum IS the players. That outcry WAS the players opinion.

So take the anti-BoB sentiment thats so popular at the moment. Its not that a few forum *****s posted "BoB are evil!" and then all the players were swayed to this opinion by reading it. Its that people decided "BoB are evil!" and then posted about it Razz

Or rather, SOME people did. Its not like there aren't enough people holding the other view point aswell. As is life.


I disagree. Probably less than 10% (hell, probably less than 5%) of EvE players post in these forums. I highly doubt that the people that post here represent the majority of EvE players. They're simply the most vocal (which should tell you something about how much the general EvE populace cares about these matters).


True, but I do believe they represent a cross section of general opinion. I find it hard to believe that the 10% (or whatever) who read the forums are all of the same minority opinion, while the other 90% hold a contrary view.


EDIT: And anyway, if only 10% of the players ever touch EVE-O with a barge pole, I don't see how it can be influential Razz

Empyre
Minmatar
Chaotic Balance
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:02:00 - [10]
 

i would like to think that people read a while here before forming a decision.. it's just plain logical. otherwise you end up contradicting yourself and giving anyone with the ability to click your portrait or use the forum search a nice evidence trail of things to call you out on.

wishful thinking? probably.. i still have faith in humanity, however. that being said, i think these forums are a LOT less influential than you think. try talking about any given topic in these forums in a select group of local channels. i'd be willing to bet more often than not people ask you for a link because they don't read them.

all those views come from trolls repeatedly opening the thread to see if someone responded to them. don't be deceived! Razz

JackofHearts
Caldari
Unknown Soldiers
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:05:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Luthien Firefoot
Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.




OMG! IRON CHEATS???

Boci
Minmatar
Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Luthien Firefoot
Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.




You mean one dev admitted to cheating, and then everyone decided to make the mistake that is generalizing and assumed that the entire 1000 or whatever person group was also cheating, and therefore didnt deserve to exist dont you?

JediLover
Minmatar
MASS
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:18:00 - [13]
 

Since the start of game and times when it was easy to get decent fights against good pilots to the times of the isk.

After serving SA for 3 years until it still remaining corps converged to rampage eternal.

I have fought with and against most major alliance in past and present.

Of those the ones I have appreciated amongst the most have been G now represented by D2 mostly german players and
RA still RA mostly represented by russian players. Both where amazingly tough nuts to try and break when we SA where ruling race with thousands of bored PvPers.

It might be due to unison through same cultural background, but still specially against the odds they have been much more valiant, engenious and better in fair PvP than most alliances in history of eve, including SA and CA imo.

Then again we have BoB which has about 500 decent veteran pvpers who have got enough of eve and just have to have fun when they play eve, like me. But as they also have few teenage leaders like good old DB Preacher -> the arrogancy in general is amazing. Even I quess Siddy and DB Preacher are both already 18 now a days and might soon come in to sense ;)
So in mids of partly well led organisation based on fact good vet pvpers are lazy some eager teenagers have made BoB look poor in judgement like a bee put it. "We rule!!! woo hoo"

But well still several hundred extraordinary pvpers, old friends and foes in BoB like Wolfman, TWD, Zeal and Farjung.

But never in the eyes of veteran PvPer has BoB seem good honest alliance, never it had looked like place I would like to belong to and rather would I see "retirement house of bored pvpers led by enough teenagers and few good souls" fade away.

So after looking BoB grow from seed from many ancient great alliances bored PvPers and become something like few rich pimps playing with some good players and thinking they cool

I must argue, BoB as instititution is based on lazy elite pvpers and few idiots beside something better, compared to proud certain nation based tight alliances like D2 and RA who have overcome the odds many times.

And If I honor the most people who sometimes let the ones who dressed up the longest take the field, for honoring the ancient code and as organisations those with ideals with humor, results still remembering its a game, I have always considered BoB beeing far from this ideal, but instead alliances like RA and D2 be not ideal but honest good alliances.

So with years of hostility with G(D2), RA, BOB I would but them in order RA>D2>BOB based on history, present and the intuition build in 3.5years I have loved playing this game.

So die bobbits, die and Nick and other once less lazy ***gots come back home ;)



thoth foc
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Luthien Firefoot
Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.




This applies to quite a number of groups.. including allies of yours.. righteous indignation hasnt been cutting it as propaganda for a while nowRolling Eyes

Luthien Firefoot
Caldari
V I R I I
Merciless.
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:25:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Luthien Firefoot on 07/03/2007 01:24:47
Originally by: Boci
Originally by: Luthien Firefoot
Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.




You mean one dev admitted to cheating, and then everyone decided to make the mistake that is generalizing and assumed that the entire 1000 or whatever person group was also cheating, and therefore didnt deserve to exist dont you?


No I didn't tbh.

It just made a lot of ppl wonder why and how these 1000 players could rule 100,000 and ponder the fact that if you had the key to a bank and worked there for a long time and you were caught stealing.

a) the bank would want to limit the damage to their reputation by willingly accepting losses were light, accountants can be very creative.

b) you probably would steal more than five pounds / dollars.

c) you would tell / brag to ppl about it, because it's a statistical fact, most crimes are solved because ppl cannot keep their mouth shut and HAVE to tell others.

Taz Devlin
Minmatar
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: JediLover
Since the start of game and times when it was easy to get decent fights against good pilots to the times of the isk.

After serving SA for 3 years until it still remaining corps converged to rampage eternal.

I have fought with and against most major alliance in past and present.

Of those the ones I have appreciated amongst the most have been G now represented by D2 mostly german players and
RA still RA mostly represented by russian players. Both where amazingly tough nuts to try and break when we SA where ruling race with thousands of bored PvPers.

It might be due to unison through same cultural background, but still specially against the odds they have been much more valiant, engenious and better in fair PvP than most alliances in history of eve, including SA and CA imo.

Then again we have BoB which has about 500 decent veteran pvpers who have got enough of eve and just have to have fun when they play eve, like me. But as they also have few teenage leaders like good old DB Preacher -> the arrogancy in general is amazing. Even I quess Siddy and DB Preacher are both already 18 now a days and might soon come in to sense ;)
So in mids of partly well led organisation based on fact good vet pvpers are lazy some eager teenagers have made BoB look poor in judgement like a bee put it. "We rule!!! woo hoo"

But well still several hundred extraordinary pvpers, old friends and foes in BoB like Wolfman, TWD, Zeal and Farjung.

But never in the eyes of veteran PvPer has BoB seem good honest alliance, never it had looked like place I would like to belong to and rather would I see "retirement house of bored pvpers led by enough teenagers and few good souls" fade away.

So after looking BoB grow from seed from many ancient great alliances bored PvPers and become something like few rich pimps playing with some good players and thinking they cool

I must argue, BoB as instititution is based on lazy elite pvpers and few idiots beside something better, compared to proud certain nation based tight alliances like D2 and RA who have overcome the odds many times.

And If I honor the most people who sometimes let the ones who dressed up the longest take the field, for honoring the ancient code and as organisations those with ideals with humor, results still remembering its a game, I have always considered BoB beeing far from this ideal, but instead alliances like RA and D2 be not ideal but honest good alliances.

So with years of hostility with G(D2), RA, BOB I would but them in order RA>D2>BOB based on history, present and the intuition build in 3.5years I have loved playing this game.

So die bobbits, die and Nick and other once less lazy ***gots come back home ;)


Word

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.03.07 01:38:00 - [17]
 

There are no good guys.

Koronos
Minmatar
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:14:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Koronos on 07/03/2007 02:11:20
Probably not really much to add that Jedilover and Tyrrax Thorrk haven't said already, but I'll say this.

Outside of reasons such as:

* Personal resentment of their arrogance and selfishness in diplomacy
* Resentment of their arrogant, contemptuous attitudes put forward on these forums
* Resentment of their holier than though attitude, repeatedly stated as "we're just better than you" being turned over by revelations of abuse of the game

I would say that much better reason to kill them is their publicly stated intention to control all space, and the fact that after winning the PVP tournaments, defeating the largest and richest alliance in game, taking its stations for income without having to defend them, having multiple titans and having killed one, they were in a position to potentially make this intention reality if they were not opposed by a large coalition of many of the remaining forces in Eve.

Koronos

P.S. btw, none of the other alliances in the coalition will be in the same sort of position to control all space after this war (if it ever ends), as they will likely all start shooting each other. So, you don't need to save BoB to prevent whoever it is exactly that you are worried about controlling Eve.

Elienia
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:17:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
There are no good guys.


ya... they are all bad guys... they have to die...

anyway D2 **** them atm! Laughing
and soon RA will come Laughingwith all the ubber TCFs peons Laughingand they will kill all them!! yearhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

go D2 go go go, you will win i can see that!!!



Johnny ReeRee
Caldari
The ReeRee Brigade
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:22:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Luthien Firefoot
Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.




zomg CHEATING zomg

dastommy79
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:25:00 - [21]
 

I dont think eve-o has much influence on the eve population. 99% of this stuff is crap. ( i know cause i post crap all the time) Its more of a place to ***** at one another for the eve community to see. As for the reason why i am shooting bob, thats because they are the best, razz my space and said they will take over all of eve 00 space. I dont want to pay a player "rent" to play a game, thats why i fight.

The Dev thing just ****ed me off, not the deciding factor for me to fight

Karrimdra
Caldari
Access Denied Inc.
Bright Side of Death
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:29:00 - [22]
 

Sometimes I wish people would write their posts and just delete them, rather than post them. This is not directed at the OP, but others within the thread.

USN CVN72
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:29:00 - [23]
 

only reason to kill anyone mentioned in this war is because Eve has come to a point were if no great war is active the game just flat out sucks...

this WAR allows people to recycle thier wealth and forces people to rebuild. Without a War the game is so boring that its almost not worth logging on with all the known bugs and stuffs hehe...

Shocked

hybridundertaker
Amarr
coracao ardente
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:30:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: hybridundertaker on 07/03/2007 02:28:45
BOB has ****ed off many ppl, in their own times their forum arrogance was just like WTF!!!11!!, but now they are so quiet i allmost feel the need to defend them. Common folks, they arent that bad after all and they arent as bad for the game as ppl say. Frankly hate for bob is one of the motors of this game for months now...
edited damn filter ; to **** = to urinate

NATMav
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:37:00 - [25]
 

It might be a little hard for some to understand, but many in my corp had a rivalry with Goons long before any of us came to EvE, a rivalry that pre-dates EvE in fact. See, just as Goons were formed up from the SA forums, we were formed up from the Tribalwar forums, and we have a long history of forum invasions and transgressions against each other.

When they burst on the scene, we fought them in Tribute, we fought them in Cloud Ring, Fade, and Deklien, and we even cheered on BoB at the time as they were kicked back into empire. Goons were seen as lewd, crude, and seemed to have no respect for the game or community.

The Goons went relatively unnoticed for months. In the meantime, BoB shows themselves to exhibit many of the same qualities we were lead to see in the Goons, only on a massive scale. BoB are lewd, crude, and have no respect for the game or community, and are corrupt from the very top of their alliance.

So yes, we support the Goons, because we hate BoB that much, and are willing to lay down all that history to get the job done.

Shin Gor
Caldari
Zion foundation
Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:55:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Shin Gor on 07/03/2007 02:55:34
Right now it is BoB who wished to dominate all of the 0.0 space. RA and DČ are happy as they are. So i kinda tend to think that BoB are the bad guys.

There is only one alliance that could try to dominate the world after BoB are gone, but they would probably just as well be the next target.

Firane
Caldari
Nothing Personal Inc
White Noise.
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:57:00 - [27]
 

Can't wait to get back to the good ole days of Alliance vs. Alliance, rather than 15 Alliances vs. Alliance. Will I get my wish? Not likely - at least until there are incentives in place by CCP to facilitate a return to that style of warfare. And until then, here's to the blob. Rolling Eyes

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.07 02:58:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/03/2007 02:59:07
Originally by: Shin Gor
Right now it is BoB who wished to dominate all of the 0.0 space. RA and DČ are happy as they are. So i kinda tend to think that BoB are the bad guys right now.

Have you at all read any of Mitanni's or Remedial's posts?

Goonfleet has a set-out plan for conquering all of EVE. Their allies don't seem to notice.

No side is "good" in this war. Band of Brothers had directors caught cheating, and Red Alliance has eight trillion in exploited ISK that CCP refuses to do anything about. LV had a GM, and D2 used IP addresses from a hacked forum to root out spies. Every single major side in this war has skeletons in their closet. Some just more than others.

Nobody is good. Nothing is white. Just shades of gray.

Shin Gor
Caldari
Zion foundation
Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.07 03:09:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 07/03/2007 02:59:07
Originally by: Shin Gor
Right now it is BoB who wished to dominate all of the 0.0 space. RA and DČ are happy as they are. So i kinda tend to think that BoB are the bad guys right now.

Have you at all read any of Mitanni's or Remedial's posts?

Goonfleet has a set-out plan for conquering all of EVE. Their allies don't seem to notice.

No side is "good" in this war. Band of Brothers had directors caught cheating, and Red Alliance has eight trillion in exploited ISK that CCP refuses to do anything about. LV had a GM, and D2 used IP addresses from a hacked forum to root out spies. Every single major side in this war has skeletons in their closet. Some just more than others.

Nobody is good. Nothing is white. Just shades of gray.


Well you just haven't payed attention. I know about goons, and their wishes. But if they have the population, they will take up the place they need. And in a distant future it might come to goons trying to dominate EVE but they are just as wellcome to try that. EVE has to change to stay fun.
But right now, really at our doorstep are BoB not goons. So let't just take care of that first.

Limlox
Caldari
Anti-BoB Flash Mob
Posted - 2007.03.07 03:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Boci
Originally by: Luthien Firefoot
Over the past couple of months we have seen the eve publics opinion on certain alliances change BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT CHEATING.

Edited your post for you for easier / quicker reading.




You mean one dev admitted to cheating, and then everyone decided to make the mistake that is generalizing and assumed that the entire 1000 or whatever person group was also cheating, and therefore didnt deserve to exist dont you?


OK, yes one dev admitted to cheating... funny how the members of BoB aren't big enough to admit their part too.
On the note of every Alliance member being branded a cheat or corrupt.. well no, they do that by defending their corrupt Alliance. They had the choice and they chose to stay.

There is no way of knowing what hasn't been proven, likewise there's no way of knowing what benefit the 'confirmed assistance' gave to BoB, the knock on effects are massive.

So, how do people come to the conclusion that BoB are the victims in all of this?
I suggest the following: Do a bit of research, look into BoB's history then see if you still feel the same.


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