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Minmatar
Slacker Industries
The Boat Violencing Initiative
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:37:00 - [61]
 

It's a shame there there are people who think it's a good idea to actively 'out' CCP staff. Whatever your feelings about previous incidents, there's no excuse to ruin the pleasure of any CCP employee, or anyone else for that matter.

To all the people who think they are playing a game that is run by cheaters, why are you still here? Why don't you leave this game for something that you feel is worthy of your trust?

Congrats on the new job Enslaver, I'm sorry that some nutjob brought all this crap upon you in his quest to become the next Internet Superstar.

Grizwold
Caldari
Solar Wind
AAA Citizens
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:37:00 - [62]
 

CCP has to deal with the "perception" issue before any of this will go away.

The perception issue will not go away until people believe that GMs or Devs are:

1. Either not involved:
a) in the mechanics of the battles;
b) manipulation of the game entities (BPOs etc);
c) passing insider information of future enhancments or changes.

2. Completely neutral i.e no longer having any attachment to a large corp or any Alliance.

Until the above occurs, there will always be the suspicion or perception that something "may" have been done to assist one side or the other in an incident.

Until CCP does something to address this, nothing will change for the better.

Griz

DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:37:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: breadcat
Yay, GMs are flying titans on tranq...poor little GMs. Dont make it sound like enslaver is a victim lol.


He was flying the titan before he became a GM.

Sgt Napalm
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:38:00 - [64]
 

Mixed feelings on this one:

In one hand CCP is playing the victim when they have knowingly stomped out a whistle blower on the previous t20 case. To get revenge the stomped out player has made a personal vendetta to 'out' a CCP employee monthly. Revenge best served cold.

In the other hand lots of innocent GMs/Devs are going to get hit in the cross fire which is sad. I met a handful of the coolest people during EvE Fanfest 06, devs, players, ISD and GMs alike.

I fully expect this to become a regular occurrence until something drastic happens.


Gwendolyne Croft
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:40:00 - [65]
 

Dear CCP

Just dont let "Ensl.." die because of some idiots. We all have seen in the past the human beeings are not perfect - does not matter if they are working for CCP or just playing EvE.

With the past problems in communication, between CCP and the playerbase, i'm shure your working on a improvment - if not, start about thinking... ;-).

Cheers, Gwen

Murukan
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:40:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: breadcat
Yay, GMs are flying titans on tranq...poor little GMs. Dont make it sound like enslaver is a victim lol.


umm get a clue before you throw random crap around. As said by several LV members enslaver hasn't participated much in game pretty much a month before he started his internship. Reading the COAD it's also rather clear that chowdown has been piloting the titan as of late

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:40:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
(snip)

What I'm going to suggest is going to be hard. It may not be popular with the GMs, the Devs or other CCP employees. I'm sure that many of your characters are among the oldest in the game. When you have a fire though, you make a firebreak in order to contain the fire. That's what you need here, a firebreak.


I have to agree with El'Niaga's post. As much as you dislike K's tactics, the issue is not going to go away. And if it's not K that does it, it will be other people who believe that they've been wronged by a GM/Dev abusing their powers. This witch hunt will continue until people feel satisfied by new rules and procedures.

Personally, I'm on the fence regarding "outing" Dev/GM alts. It's worthwhile to the long-term health of the game that there are devs/GMs who have piloted capital ships and dealt with 0.0 issues. But it's also a problem area because it's too easy to abuse their knowledge.

In other MMOs, the typical rule is that you can't play on the same server that you GM. That's not a possibility here. So either characters need to be shelved when a player becomes a CCP employee or there need to be strict rules regarding behavior.

Some ideas (some horrible ideas):

- Forcing the character to change alliances quarterly, with no repeats within 12 months.
- Only allowing limited play time per week on chars over X million skill points.
- Shelving the character for the duration. Possibly allowing only skill training of existing skills.
- No leadership position in any corp larger then X players.
- No membership in corps larger then X players that are involved in 0.0 politics on a significant scale.

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:41:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
CCP: I'm sure you're aware of why so many people "mudsling". Basically, we have several allegations of influential people in large alliances who have a history of getting the rub of the green (so to speak) having GM assistance.

Now, it turns out that in BoB's case, it was true. Other allegations were brushed under the carpet. The CAOD forum isn't exactly a bastion of free speech, and your blogs aren't helping either.

Kugu does what is necessary - he posts the truth and lets everyone else decide what to glean from it. A very large number of people lost a lot of faith in CCP, and in EVE as a whole, when they discovered that CCP employees [I note nothing's been said about the ISD allegations a while back] are making it impossible to have a level playing field. Many people consider the game to be tainted, and I'm your efforts at PR are really just polarising opinions more.

You are complaining that someone pointed out that a leading member of LV and a Titan pilot is, in fact, a Dev. I'm sure you realise why people have a problem with that.



Dude is this a joke?

When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame, its public knowledge that they RECRUIT GMS from the player base. If you dont like this, or think its cheating that the dev team knows about their game from a player perspective, the game isnt for you.

Well all agree that Dev and GM accounts should be closely monitored and any cheating punished, but The Enslaver did nothing wrong, he retired once he got the GM job, and there is absolutely no proof of him cheating.

The only thing **********whateverthehell did disclose what that a GM has a normal char in EVE, which screwed up a build up char for years from Ens.

What this kugu guy does is not reveal what is necessary, he didnt reveal and misuse of anything.

Isyel
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:41:00 - [69]
 

No matter what CCP will do the morons around here will keep on throwing **** around.

That's like an axiom.

:/ This stuff sucks...

Ishtar Amin
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:42:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Ishtar Amin on 02/03/2007 18:41:14

Kazou Kiriyama
Guardians of Sareer
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:42:00 - [71]
 

Ozzie: Realised my mistake and edited. I of course meant GM, and not Dev.

As for "Get a clue and perspective", I have both, thanks. I would suggest that those who cannot understand the reasons behind the dislike of playing against those employed by CCP who have more power than the average player should not accused others of lacking perspective.

Jaabaa
Minmatar
Dental Drilling Corporation
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:42:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
You are complaining that someone pointed out that a leading member of LV and a Titan pilot is, in fact, a Dev. I'm sure you realise why people have a problem with that.

Let me correct your post ...

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama(updated)
You are complaining that someone pointed out that a leading member of LV and a Titan pilot became(is), in fact, a GM(Dev). I'm sure you realise why people have great respect for(a problem with ) that.

Why should anyone have a problem with that ? A great plyaer, with indepth knowledge of the game, was invited by CCP, to put all that knowledge to good use, as a GM.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:44:00 - [73]
 

@Arkanon: Great blog!
@The Enslaver: Grats for your new job as GM.

@**********: Get a live and leave Eve alone. We donīt want your "services".

Kazou Kiriyama
Guardians of Sareer
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:46:00 - [74]
 

Chewan,

Quote:
When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame


Actually, when I signed up for EVE back at the start, I knew no such thing.

If you read my post, you'd understand why I think hiring GMs from positions of power in the top alliances is a bad thing, and why having GMs or Devs actively seek those positions is even worse. It's a straightforward conflict of interest, and unfortunately for CCP they need to be careful about their reputation at this point and should be playing it safe.

I've got no beef with The Enslaver - he's done nothing wrong. However, I do have a problem with CCP policy and I think it was immensely short-sighted of them to hire him as a GM and not convince him to leave LV. Furthermore, attacking Kugu won't really get them anywhere - why is it only LV that should know that Enslaver is a GM...?

Kazou Kiriyama
Guardians of Sareer
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:48:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa

Let me correct your post ...


No need, I did it myself. Dev/GM was a simple mistake (I meant GM, I typed Dev).

Quote:
Why should anyone have a problem with that ? A great plyaer, with indepth knowledge of the game, was invited by CCP, to put all that knowledge to good use, as a GM.

Makes perfect sense to me.


Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.

Isyel
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:48:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Chewan,

Quote:
When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame


Actually, when I signed up for EVE back at the start, I knew no such thing.

If you read my post, you'd understand why I think hiring GMs from positions of power in the top alliances is a bad thing, and why having GMs or Devs actively seek those positions is even worse. It's a straightforward conflict of interest, and unfortunately for CCP they need to be careful about their reputation at this point and should be playing it safe.

I've got no beef with The Enslaver - he's done nothing wrong. However, I do have a problem with CCP policy and I think it was immensely short-sighted of them to hire him as a GM and not convince him to leave LV. Furthermore, attacking Kugu won't really get them anywhere - why is it only LV that should know that Enslaver is a GM...?


And who said they knew? And with certain allegations of crap GMs i fully support CCP getting people with great in depth knowledge of EVE.

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:49:00 - [77]
 

Where is the problem with the GM retiring from the alliance then, there is no conflict of interest anymore, he didnt pilot the titan, he didnt make any alliance decisions, nothing.

If you wanna see it like that and mistrust CCP, every gm and every dev, regardless if they have an account as normal char or not, might like BoB more or LV or Goons and cheat for them.


Kazou Kiriyama
Guardians of Sareer
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:50:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Kazou Kiriyama on 02/03/2007 18:48:16
Originally by: Isyel
And who said they knew?


The conversations that Kugu posted make it pretty clear.

Again - I have no problem with him getting hired as a GM.

Originally by: Chewan Mesa
Where is the problem with the GM retiring from the alliance then, there is no conflict of interest anymore, he didnt pilot the titan, he didnt make any alliance decisions, nothing.


He didn't leave LV when he became a GM, and still logged onto Vent etc (according to Kugu, that is).

Do you not understand why the whole BoB business means that CCP really need to be far more careful and adopt a different strategy?

Jaabaa
Minmatar
Dental Drilling Corporation
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:52:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.

I think that just happened, maybe a couple of his close friends ingame knew that he had got a job as a CCP GM, but I can assure you that it wasn't public knowledge, or that would have been the 1st thing up on kugu's (**** head) witch hunt site (err, forum).

Jake Noble
Amarr
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:53:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: breadcat
Yay, GMs are flying titans on tranq...poor little GMs. Dont make it sound like enslaver is a victim lol.


No flaming please -Eldo Davip([email protected])

Kazou Kiriyama
Guardians of Sareer
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:54:00 - [81]
 

Jaabaa: I dunno, it seemed to be up there pretty quick as part of the whole exposure...

Anyway - I don't wish to spam this thread any more, just wanted to explain my position further.

Chewan Mesa
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:54:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Edited by: Kazou Kiriyama on 02/03/2007 18:48:16

Do you not understand why the whole BoB business means that CCP really need to be far more careful and adopt a different strategy?



I'm perfectly aware of the "issues" that result from the t20-incident, however they did adopt their strategy as you put it. They introduce an internal "organ" screening the dev/gm activity and their player-accounts to stop any cheating from happening in the future.

This is enough of a change of plan for me, since the other option, stopping to recruit players as GMs is not an option imho.

SaIIy
Minmatar
X1 Industries
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:54:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: LoxyRider
I seriously can't wait until this "professional hacker" gets life.



I fixed it for you ....

And this "professional hacker" calls himself a security expert and tells people he is doing them all a favor ... what a complete loser, they should lock him up and throw away the key imho!!

Elve Sorrow
Amarr
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:56:00 - [84]
 

Ens, mate. Normally i'd say catch me on MSN, but i can't, so...

<3

DEVILSENIGMA
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.03.02 18:56:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: DEVILSENIGMA on 02/03/2007 18:52:35
Originally by: Jaabaa
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.

I think that just happened, maybe a couple of his close friends ingame knew that he had got a job as a CCP GM, but I can assure you that it wasn't public knowledge, or that would have been the 1st thing up on kugu's (**** head) witch hunt site (err, forum).


Sometimes it's hard to hide from people that you've switched countries. Smile

PS: That was NOT sarcasm

Jags
Minmatar
Savvy Gents.
Posted - 2007.03.02 19:00:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama

Agree 100%. I also think he shouldn't have remained in LV once it was known to his alliance mates that he was a GM.


This is as much a surprise to us as it is to you m8.

This was well handled by Ens and CCP IMO.

PirateShampoo
Minmatar
Blueprint Haus
Posted - 2007.03.02 19:00:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: PirateShampoo on 02/03/2007 18:57:54
Edited by: PirateShampoo on 02/03/2007 18:57:43
Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Chewan,

Quote:
When signing up for EVE you KNOW that Devs and GMs DO HAVE Chars ingame


Actually, when I signed up for EVE back at the start, I knew no such thing.

If you read my post, you'd understand why I think hiring GMs from positions of power in the top alliances is a bad thing, and why having GMs or Devs actively seek those positions is even worse. It's a straightforward conflict of interest, and unfortunately for CCP they need to be careful about their reputation at this point and should be playing it safe.

I've got no beef with The Enslaver - he's done nothing wrong. However, I do have a problem with CCP policy and I think it was immensely short-sighted of them to hire him as a GM and not convince him to leave LV. Furthermore, attacking Kugu won't really get them anywhere - why is it only LV that should know that Enslaver is a GM...?


We did not know enslaver was a GM it was that simple. People have been asking for months where is he, why is he not piloting the titan we we need him, why is he not leading? Simply almost everyone (if not actually everyone) did not know he was a GM.

Lord MooMoo
Posted - 2007.03.02 19:01:00 - [88]
 

So why the cover-up? Why was GM Zhainius' employment history wiped by CCP some time in the last month, on both SiSi and Tranq? There have been numerous complaints about his job performance and objectivity, but escalated petitions are never looked at.

I dunno, it just seems like more of the same -- and it's exactly what can be expected after the last few incidents.

Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.03.02 19:02:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Kazou Kiriyama
Ozzie: Realised my mistake and edited. I of course meant GM, and not Dev.

As for "Get a clue and perspective", I have both, thanks. I would suggest that those who cannot understand the reasons behind the dislike of playing against those employed by CCP who have more power than the average player should not accused others of lacking perspective.


ok fair enough.

But perspective: It's ok to illegally hack forums and ts, it's ok to expose a GM despite no hint of wrongdoing, it's ok to ruin a long known char, to force people to hide and stop playig the game who just want to help the game. Perhaps in extreme cases forced to resign or get fired from their IRL jobs.

And why? Because people are paranoid their little computer spaceships are getting blown up unfairly. Even though (and in this case) there is absolutly no evidence of any wrongdoing.

The perspective I talk about is the fact that IRL and a game are very very different things. If people have trouble seeing that then i do worry...

PirateShampoo
Minmatar
Blueprint Haus
Posted - 2007.03.02 19:03:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: PirateShampoo on 02/03/2007 19:01:57
*nm*


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