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Edde Bebbi
Amarr
The Griffin
Posted - 2007.02.17 17:05:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Zeoliter
Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident





Check it out. No grey tactics listed from LV. Honour. Respect.


Not many people know about how you were shooting CA through POS shields.

honor and respect... indeed.ugh


funny how the GMs supported our side on that one; noone banned and one of your POSs forcibly offlined by the GMs. Heres a hint: Its because we wernt exploiting you just ****ed up then abused the GMs good faith.

Zirator
Gallente
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2007.02.17 19:55:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Edde Bebbi
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Zeoliter
Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident





Check it out. No grey tactics listed from LV. Honour. Respect.


Not many people know about how you were shooting CA through POS shields.

honor and respect... indeed.ugh


funny how the GMs supported our side on that one; noone banned and one of your POSs forcibly offlined by the GMs. Heres a hint: Its because we wernt exploiting you just ****ed up then abused the GMs good faith.


What's the point of the BoB forum blackout if you are still posting here with alt chars. You might as well post with your main. My gues is that your DB preacher.

David H'Levi
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.17 21:03:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident

etc. etc. I think some of you might be able to add more crap to this list.

And allthough stuff like this doesn't affect my day to day EVE-experience, I think it's sad to see what this game has come too. I started playing in september 2005 so that makes me a new player to many of the vets out there. But when I started playing I didn't see stuff like this in the game. Battles were won and lost just by using the games. Of course people were playing the grey even back then. But I never heard of it.

The current state of the game is that playing the grey ( metagaming ) is considered a vallid tactic by all of the major alliances in EVE. And seeing this happen is for some reason taking away the fun in EVE for me. ( No I'm not leaving so you can't have my stuff ) I used to read battlereports about glorious battles, and impressive schemes being pulled of. But now there is only this lame gameplay.

I would like to here everyones opinion about this. And allthough this will probable be futille, don't turn this into a BoB vs anti BoB thread.




What you're seeing is a development in the modes of warfare. As the alliances get more advanced, and their stake in the game rises more and more (yes, it's a game, but it's a game that people have devoted up to 3 years of their life to), the scope of warfare is going to change. We seem to be approaching a mode of total war, leaving behind the touchstones of honor, respect, fun, and valor in favor of winning at any cost. I don't know if this is a bad thing or a good thing, but I do know that it is inevitable, at least historically. War, struggle and contest are ugly things, and as the stakes get higher they get progressively uglier. Yes, even in video games.

BoB has been telling us this for a long time, and they have been right about it. There is a place for honor, fun and respect, and there is a place for all out conflict, and they are often mutually exclusive. We may not like it, but to quote, "adapt or die."

Nuri Aderynn
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2007.02.17 22:26:00 - [34]
 

Hey Zirator, why not head back to Empire, and small-scale RP warfare?

Nasty as IGS flamewars can get, the actual wars (Star Fraction vs. Cyrene/Kimotoro, PIE vs. Ushra'Khan) rarely include the kind of dirty tricks you're talking about.

Nice to see you're still active BTW Very Happy

insanebe
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2007.02.17 22:30:00 - [35]
 

tracing IP's ....probably wont work, IP spoofing isn't that hard :o/

Godfroi
Caldari
Righteous-Indignation
Posted - 2007.02.17 22:57:00 - [36]
 

heheh in my opinion i think that whats going on in the eve atm is awesome, you cant blame CCP for the choices we make in the game, however you can point the finger at them for the technical problems that have been going on, there are several things that need to be done about the nodes crashing cuz thats just ****ty when that happens and it really ruined my night when i was stuck in hostile system and couldnt log back in, you cant go raggin on CCP for spies and and lost titans, so there shouldnt be any of that reimbursement crap, instead they need to put limits within the game to prevent this in the future, something like this was bound to happen in a game with this much freedom. I highly agree with that limit on ships in the system, cuz thats exactly what i was feelin they needed to do when the nodes crashed. If i had any suggestions to improve the game that would be one of the top ones.

As of the whole t20 deal and the IP thing, theres not a whole bunch i think CCP could do about it and that can happen an any online game, and imo those are just low tactics that ruin peoples gameplay and spark arguments like this one. CCP just needs to make some technical changes to prevent the bad things that have happened in the future and as of the lost titans and such thats just the way the game goes and if it frustrates you then just take a break from it instead of *****in at the enemies for cheating and crap.

JackofHearts
Caldari
Unknown Soldiers
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2007.02.17 23:00:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: JackOfHearts on 17/02/2007 22:56:56
Originally by: Zirator


And allthough stuff like this doesn't affect my day to day EVE-experience, I think it's sad to see what this game has come too.




I would take out the word "sad" and replace it with "exciting"

:) great job CCP keep up the greatness in EvE!

Bon Ali
Caldari
Bon's Ecological Recycling
Posted - 2007.02.17 23:17:00 - [38]
 

Seriously, I cant believe some people are complaining about this war that has seen more epic battles in a few weeks then happened all of last year.

Sure, the lag has sucked at times. And sure, game mechanics have changed the path of the story. But comeon, why do you people play this game if its NOT to fly around in ships and blow people up / get blown up? Because there are battles EVERYWHERE you can get in on.

Stop crying and pod someone. You will feel better.

Godfroi
Caldari
Righteous-Indignation
Posted - 2007.02.17 23:28:00 - [39]
 

i agree with the fact that this war should be seen as exciting and fun, instead of crappy and irritating, the only thing i feel i need to ***** about is the node stuff lol. The way i see it is when **** like that happens and my client crashes and i cant log back in(and with the fact that im only playin with a single char and no alts) when people pull stuff like this its virtually robbing me of my money, in the fact that i pay to play and when people's ignorant actions in the game pretty much dont allow me to play because of not being able to log in thats technically throwin some of my money down the toilet.

But I am all up for the whole war effort, takes the dullness out of the game and adds some intensity to it, I love this whole war issue. CCP should take advantage of this event to basically take the game to its limits and make changes to extend its boundaries instead of letting it sit there and mess itself up. Up for the war, but all the way down for the technical issues.Very Happy

Baun
Gallente
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.02.17 23:36:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Zeoliter
Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident




Check it out. No grey tactics listed from LV. Honour. Respect.


How about that mothership ISD gave you by cheating?

Naqq
Minmatar
stone grave haulage
PROBABLE CAUSE
Posted - 2007.02.17 23:38:00 - [41]
 

/Signed

Oh and I have to add:

Originally by: Streber
Goonswarm brought this "no respect, no honour, no fairness" attitude to the game, and it looks like it is here to stay.

In the old days, people cared too much about reputations and respect to pull **** like this. The "Goonswarm" attitude has now spread.


Shh alt, you can't blame it on Goons more then you can blame it on BoB or any of the other 'big players' for that matter.

Liet Traep
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.18 00:31:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Liet Traep on 18/02/2007 00:28:55
Originally by: Streber
Goonswarm brought this "no respect, no honour, no fairness" attitude to the game, and it looks like it is here to stay.

In the old days, people cared too much about reputations and respect to pull **** like this. The "Goonswarm" attitude has now spread.
This predates Goonies. Some of the rivalries in Eve are old and bitter now. Some of these are people are former friends now on opposing sides. Some are enemies 2 or even 3 years old now. Emotions are running high, tension is high and it's getting dirty.

But I remember being a noob and reading about the fall of CA. Dubious tactics, smack and psyops are nothing new. They're just more commonplace now. I think after this Great War is finished everybody needs to calm down and mine some veld for a week or something.

Sorja
Caldari
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.02.18 01:27:00 - [43]
 

IMHO the game is going the wrong direction and was much more fun 2 years ago.

POSes, sovereignty and ultra expensive tools (not only Titans) made of EVE a game which is not quite a game anymore.
Some people play to hurt others and feel great about it. That's just pathetic.

When you lose a ship, even a TII fitted BS, in debatable conditions (lag springs to mind) it's not a big deal, the game goes on.
When some ships cost more than most players will earn in their entire EVE time, things go bad fast.

Of course, I find myself involved in a stupid POS war now so I might be biased but I only play because of the old friends. I'd be long gone to more fun games if the sense of community was not what it is in EVE.

A final note about lag: it will never be sorted out.

BuyN Sell
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.02.18 01:31:00 - [44]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Targoviste ([email protected])

PDoggy
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.02.18 01:38:00 - [45]
 

The whole "using massive numbers to crash nodes!!!!" thing is the stupidest, whiniest thing I've ever heard come out of this especially stupid and whiny forums. Would you prefer they line up and jump through the gate in tidy ones and twos for you to violently ****? Better yet, why not simply tally the number of SP in each fleet and then the higher number automatically wins the system - because noobs who might want to contribute to great efforts can only be worthless sources of lag and not human beings playing a game, right? To the camps with the noobs! ****ing Christ, you people.

PDoggy
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.02.18 01:40:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Zeoliter
Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident




Check it out. No grey tactics listed from LV. Honour. Respect.

So, exactly how much was it Lallante was paying Mr. K to hack into goonfleet.com? 500m per week of intel, right?

Liquid Vision
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2007.02.18 02:00:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Teeta Sabes
Edited by: Teeta Sabes on 17/02/2007 13:09:20
The problem why the fight moral went down is due to mass bubbling.

seeing 2 major alliances that claimed that their only tactic in this game is to be more than the enemy at what ever costs is sad.

100 tech2 fitted battleships cant do a **** against 400 goons or RA jumping in with tech1 ships and making a huge lagg so that you cant even fight them how its meant to. this is the using of lame tacticts. I think BoB only get used to theit tactics and is doing anti-blob tactics to break this huge battle ****.

also i think it would be great of CCP to limit fleets to 50 battleships and 25 support.

D2 would never jump their titan into a huge battle where they maybe could lose their titan, so the briliat tactic BoB used on the D2 titan is legitime, dirty but legitime.

D2 used their eve-online.de forum to spy IPs from SPYs in their rows, but this happend long ago and looks like it wont happen that soon again, so lets get over it now.

A sabre BPO and some ammo BPOs didnt make BoB to the leading alliance of EvE, so stop arguing abou****. BoB members didnt know what happened untill CCP admited it (so didnt the whole community). Its over its gone and letsd get over it. T20 have had his punishment by CCP i think thats all that cn be made by now (I personaly dont want to see him beein fired because of this).

About the LV titan: CCP will solve the problem, when CCP think it should be reimbursed then it will be reimbursed.

Oh and dont blame BoB for their tactics, if dirty or not. at the moment it doesnt matter what bob do in eve, everybody is crying HAX, CHEAT, DEV-HELP etc. ild like to say to those people: PLS GROW UP FINALY.

BoB is forcing 8000+ players in this war - remember that.


Thanks for assuring us that BOB is totally innocent BOB alt!

Seriously, it seems like BOB have been promoting this "bully, *******, jackass" image for YEARS. Now everyone wants to blame it on Goons. . .a group that just got here recently. Sounds like some rocksolid logic there to me!

Or actually it sounds like a huge whine from the older players who are ****ed a buncha noobs have their feet on their necks.

In the end, it is all on CCP for fostering this type of game. They don't punish everyone who breaks the EULA. . .only SOME people get punished. They allow people to post to forums with more than one character. They allow folks to metagame and other nonsense. So. . .please STFU about "the playerbase" and direct your comments to them.

Edde Bebbi
Amarr
The Griffin
Posted - 2007.02.18 02:33:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: PDoggy
Originally by: Zeoliter
Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident




Check it out. No grey tactics listed from LV. Honour. Respect.

So, exactly how much was it Lallante was paying Mr. K to hack into goonfleet.com? 500m per week of intel, right?


Is that what you've been told?

Shindal
Minmatar
G00d Times
Posted - 2007.02.18 02:38:00 - [49]
 

look i just did nothing to contribute to this thread.....

however cookies for everyone

Trytonx
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Posted - 2007.02.18 02:45:00 - [50]
 

As already stated above, the node crashes seem to be the 1 major hinder as this war progresses. What I don't understand though is why people are blaming this on eachother? No one should blame RAGOON for swarming with 600, just as no one should hold any offence to LV for defending with similar numbers! It's a MMO, people want to play together, participate in HUGE battles, have fun together and learn together. The large fleet stuff is what some people live for in this game and it's clear to see that not even lag will deter them.

All this bickering about intentional node crashes, spamming login to keep the node held down, all that junk is no ones fault but ccp's. If ccp had gone live with a build that was stable from the get go, this verbal diahreah would never have started.

What we need to see is more pressure on CCP to finally, once and for all get the server stable to the point where people can actually experience these epic battles without lagging or crashing.

CCP said themselves they dont want to see blob warfare, but I believe this is what the game was BUILT around. Would bob defend its empire with a small gang of 30? Never. Would RAGOON attack a station with a party of 15? I doubt it.

Small gang warfare does have its place no doubt, but it's clear to see that (untill more changes are implemented) blob warfare is almost your only choice when it comes to the larger power blocs fighting for surpremacy.


Shinjuro
Caldari
UA Industry
Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.18 02:51:00 - [51]
 

Too many people are in the mindset of, "WIN AT ANY COST!" They show no care for game mechanics, and exploit them at chance. Lame tactics are the new I-Win of eve.



Condolesco
Caldari
Brotherhood of Whiners
Posted - 2007.02.18 02:54:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Streber
Goonswarm brought this "no respect, no honour, no fairness" attitude to the game, and it looks like it is here to stay.

In the old days, people cared too much about reputations and respect to pull **** like this. The "Goonswarm" attitude has now spread.


That attitude has been there before goons and it will be there after goons.
It's human nature.
Everything is fair in love and war.
Just look at all the BS going on when CA disbanded...

Adrian Devoid
Caldari
Quam Singulari
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.02.19 05:38:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Adrian Devoid on 19/02/2007 05:35:23
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Zeoliter
Originally by: Zirator
Ok last few weeks we've seen and read quite a lot of stuff on the forums about stuff happening in the game.

-The way D2 lost their titan.
-The way LV lost their titan that was being build.
-D2 using eve-online.de to trace ip's to find spies.
-The various ways RAGOON uses their numbers to crash nodes.
-The T20 incident





Check it out. No grey tactics listed from LV. Honour. Respect.


Not many people know about how you were shooting CA through POS shields.

honor and respect... indeed.ugh


Well, for those of you that dont know, here is exactly how it works as posted on these forums by a dev.

You can shoot any unpiloted ship in a pos without a password. It requires no modules, no passive targeter or anything. The ship must be unpiloted, the POS must have no password.

The post also states that he was given word from "up top" that this is by design.



I'm too lazy to find the post but its not too old.

Boliknar
Minmatar
Divine Republic Holding LLC.
Posted - 2007.02.19 06:06:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Boliknar on 19/02/2007 06:05:52
Originally by: Daon Khan
Edited by: Daon Khan on 17/02/2007 14:26:55
Originally by: nico wurz250
Please, do not talk about RL in game context.

... because in RL it is so and so and thats because its ok in EVE.


Well, I was just saying EVE is supposed to be a cruel treacherous place... Blade Runner-esque as it has been compared before by the devs and backstory. The world of EVE is harsh and full of doublecrossings and dirty deals and "immorality" by most standards. And that's what makes it a challenge and romance in the literary sense... there is conflict and it is unbridled. The more compelling comparison I made was Star Wars, where the rebels use Bothan spies to get plans for the Death Star (Titan) and destroy it with a newb :P in an X-Wing fighter (frigate) and The Force (OMGHAXPLOITZ!). The moral of the story is if you look at it that way it kinda makes BoB look like the goodguys using a spy in a CovOps frig to destroy a Titan... or maybe the good guys in Star Wars were really the bad guys and they killed alot of innocent people on a coffee break in the Death Star lounge, but maybe they were the debil for backing the Emperor etc etc etc.. point is it's all a matter of perspective and war is all grey area or might I add black... don't like it can't bear it? Don't look or don't play or find a nice quiet place to shoot some asteroids and enjoy a beer. There it is, all spelled out for you. EVE's not going to hell in a hand basket, it's supposed to be hell in a hand basket (EVE ONLINE: TOTALHELLDEATH I believe was what was on the screen at fanfest), I mean it's got people playing in it right? Confused


Noone is talking about a disturbing lack or respect for the other toon I am talking about a seeming lack of respect for the people running those toons. When we play a game where one participant takes advantage of the others RL situation (and dont say bob didnt know cause they were on the TS and knew the Titan pilot had to log due to RL issues) to gain advantage well it says something about the true character of those who exploilted that adavantage. I am glad I fly with people who would not use such an advantage however we are in a minority now.


Rhamnousia
Caldari
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2007.02.19 06:07:00 - [55]
 

if anything im gonna say... it might be offensive to someone, so i'd apologize in advance. and this message is to every1, not just the OP.

it's a game, get over it. i mean, honestly, if u put as much effort into gettin laid, u could hav gotten it.

EVE-Online is a game. if u dont like the way it turn out/heading to .. leave, find another game to play that would suit ur interests. if u wanna stay and plave EVE, then deal with what u given.

BoB aint become the most dangerous force in EVE because they gotten a few t2 BPO from the dev. they did because the committment from every single pilot in their alliance. workin toward a goal agreed upon. a few t2 BPOs, so what? 3 motherships and 2 titans is much more than that .. and they didn't get those from the devs, did they?

RA didn't stick out from under fire of V, LV, and KOS because they had the ability to do so. farming complexs, using exploits while do in so. pay demogod a sum of 185bils ISK to buy N-7 and Q-GQ from KOS, they had the money to do so, so what??? it wasn't KOS that took the deal, it was demogod ... i respect the guys for fighting, even fighting dirty, at least they keep themselves off the forum for the most part.

it's a frakkin game. for frak's sake. hav fun playing it.

Mistress Suffering
Amarr
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.02.19 06:56:00 - [56]
 

Complaining that people (Goons or anyone else) are bringing too many people to a fight is moronic. EVE encourages huge fleets by its very fundamentals. POSs that require huge ships and large fleets to assault, super-capitals that can't be touched with less than a armada of huge ships, and the never-ending escalations that it has brought.

Just smells like people trying to divert attention from the actual villiany that's been occuring.

Gaz Widdow
Caldari
Red Sky Morning
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.02.19 08:59:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Ramireza
Edited by: Ramireza on 17/02/2007 14:28:30
Originally by: Streber
Goonswarm brought this "no respect, no honour, no fairness" attitude to the game, and it looks like it is here to stay.

In the old days, people cared too much about reputations and respect to pull **** like this. The "Goonswarm" attitude has now spread.


Dont blame the goons for this. WE ALL brought that stuff into the game tbfh.

Examples?

- After an coalition of corps (ASS, MASS, etc) invades Fade and lost, we (G) let them go without chasing them.

- Fleetbattle in 4c (IMP vs BoB war) : Bob jumped in on us (G) outnumbered and they had heavy lag. We stopped shooting, didnt post mails. (BoB did that once too after we had heavy jumpin lag)

- After 2 enemy pilots in Frigs getting killed in xzh, we sold them new interceptors (to fair prices). One other G pilot copied them BMs to get back to empire save.

Such actions seems IMPOSSIBLE now. Its all about showing how UBER everybody is, cause most ppl forgot that we are only playing a ****ing game.




I know how you operate and agree with you have allways played as long as ive known with respect and honour.
I last seen you in L/V space out numbered and but not out gunned.
But to defend Goons when you know there aspirations are no different to BOB,s confuses me slightly.
Ask yourself what have they contruted to the game (lag aside)

Have they built any outposts = NO
They Take and Manipuate, well you know it, if BOB does fall you think when Goons CAP ship program finishes they will leave you alone. Do you think there lagging systems and crashing nodes in crap T1 ships will change = NO.

And reguarding the past honour of fights with BOB you think that would or could EVER happen with goons = NO.

Your true enemy is the Goons and you know it even though youl probably fight BOB till the servers close, or one of you dies.

And whens your next VID BTW


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