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KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.24 18:45:00 - [1]
 

ok,

i like fighting and I'm rushing into things...

so last night I saw a hostile in local, warp to gate (50km) to check it out. I didn't see the hostile on the scanner, so did'nt know what he was in. But mostly I can take a ship or I ca run away (or jump out)

problem, he was in a vaga. And I always die in my brutix to a vagabond. The fight is always the same I see him 40km away, 2 seconds later hes is 19km away and I'm scrambled and swearing at my pc. Fight over he slowly beats me to death and I can't get in range. My drones are popped fast.

any ideas what todo?

- he is never in web range
- webbing drones as possibility --> i guess they would die faster than I get in web range
- he is way faster than me
- drones are always popped by him

so any tips? I prefer the brutix for pvp because of its insane damage output, but never can win against a vaga...

Johann Jeneau
Gallente
Cricas Portuguese Korp
SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:06:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Johann Jeneau on 24/01/2007 19:03:51
never been in that situation, so just theory here

i don't think you can win 1vs1 unless the other guy makes a mistake

you're best chances are:

1. You are able to run:
if near a gate, don't engange and go for the jump

2. you make him run:
use RSD, with max skills and 2 phased muon or 2 RSD T2 cheapers but more cap intensive, he will have to be at 10kms from you to be able to lock you
at this point he will run away, if he decides to try his luck under 10kms, you still have 1 middle slot to use a web

i only have signal suppression at 4 and that would make him go for under 12kms to lock, still possible for him to make the mistake and go under 10km)

If he has a SB this wont work of course

3. you are near asteroids, run for them and hope for the best, you still have to rely in a mistake from him to be able to win


And congratulations to you if you beat him 1vs1


kublai
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:11:00 - [3]
 

Sensor damps and webifier drones.

Sensor damp means it will take him frigging forever to lock your drones, meaning they may just get in range or you can re-call them to your bay and re-launch as he damages them.

When they do get into range you smack your mwd and head STRAIGHT into him, pack a 90% web or double 90's.

That said, vaga vs brutix? good luck buddy, you'll need it.

KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:21:00 - [4]
 

both are very good suggestions,

except that I'm very limited on midslots with the brutix...

I have 4 mids which means 3 are taken by scrambler, webber, mwd. Which leaves us with on midslot. Which I need for a cap booster. Brutix is impossible to fly for me without.

- dual rerpers
- mwd
- 7 x electrons T2

basically the standard I pawn you brutix setup.

Nash Leigth
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:25:00 - [5]
 

make it be a nano-Brutix?
ok, i'm not really scoring any likeability points here from those who think nano-ships are overpowered or boring

Damps I think would be a good idea as well as various e-war drones. If you can't out-run him or tank him, mess with his sensors - at least there he doesn't have an advantage over you. Who knows, may be you'll get lucky. And then you can post your anti-Vaga Brutix setup here on the forums for all of us to see Very Happy

Vader Crane
Minmatar
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:28:00 - [6]
 

nano-brutix.. and hope he is a noob and dont notice you suddenly go 2km/s ish

KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:35:00 - [7]
 

mhm I gonna try it out, but I doubt he is a noob he and his gang are damn good and effective. I think If I would post the kill mail everybody just would say:

good luck,
good fight,
get a new brutix :)

KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:39:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nash Leigth

If you can't out-run him or tank him, mess with his sensors - at least there he doesn't have an advantage over you. Who knows, may be you'll get lucky. And then you can post your anti-Vaga Brutix setup here on the forums for all of us to see Very Happy


problem is he is also mostly in a gang which makes things more difficult. Sofar I just looking for a solo solution if I find a vaga solo sometimes :)

whats the range of faction webbers?

Shinjuro
UA Industry
Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:41:00 - [9]
 

If you are on the gate, you already win ability to escape. He aggros, you jump. He doesn't aggro you warp off. SIMPLE.

KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Shinjuro
If you are on the gate, you already win ability to escape. He aggros, you jump. He doesn't aggro you warp off. SIMPLE.



problem is I don't always want to run from a vaga, I'm looking for a way to beat it. And I'm not saying its uber I'm just saying I use the wrong tactic for the enemy and want to change this using a brutix.

Johann Jeneau
Gallente
Cricas Portuguese Korp
SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.01.24 19:52:00 - [11]
 

f****

sorry captain, in my accounts 2 RSD + 1 JAM + 1 MWD/AB + 1 WEB = 4 middle slots ugh back to primary school

the Brutix needs another middle slot Laughing

I know you want to use the Brutix, but for this task the Myrm is a better option, the drones to alot more damage and you have the extra middle slot and extra low slot

lofty29
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:03:00 - [12]
 

Learn to manual pilot, and learn a bit about trajectory. You can alter your movement just right in a BC to catch an orbitting vaga off guard and web him Twisted Evil

Johann Jeneau
Gallente
Cricas Portuguese Korp
SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:19:00 - [13]
 

that's an option, but if the VAGA guy knows you are using Blasters he won't need to orbit the Brutix, he just have to keep the range, it's not the Vaga Speed that's keeping the Brutix from making damage, it's the range

Anyway, it's still worth to try because he may be fitted to speedtanking outrunning your drones, and if he use keep range option your drones will catch him

Are your drones doing any harm to him until they go pop?

Shadrin
Gallente
Viper Intel Squad
Pure.
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:25:00 - [14]
 

Maybe you need to fit up some rails if he's keeping so much range from you. Not my favorite on a Brutix, but may work in this situation.

CherniyVolk
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:31:00 - [15]
 


The only thing a Vagabond has going for itself is it's speed. It's damage output sucks, probably second worst DPS of all HACs; only being beat by a Sacrilege. Even the Muninin has way more DPS than the Vagabond. The Vagabond has probably the worst tank of all HACs, don't confuse it's speed with tank though... you get one sitting still you might think it was a newb in a Stabber.

So, if you are in a Brutix and expect a fight with a Vagabond, two setups come to mind.

1) Deprive the Vagabond of it's only strong point, speed.

Fit five 200mm Railgun IIs for range and tracking.
Fit an AB or MWD, and the rest of your mid-slots Fleeting Webbers (90% at 10KM)

Wait till he zips by, activate all webbers on him and approach him. He might still pull away from you as you might be webbed two, but with three 90s on him he's not going very far soon. Hence the 200mm Railguns.

2) Deprive the Vagabond of it's focus agenda, "Hit and Run"

Fit five Heavy Neutron IIs
Fit an AB or MWD, and the rest of your mid-slots Sensor Dampeners

Here requires no waiting. You target the Vagabond and activate the Sensor Dampeners on him. He will have two choices, face off against the blasters which can hit him even in orbit at close range, or run. He'll likely run, but you never know. If he is determined to take you down, he'll have to come within 10KM and blasters tear Minmatar up real good and the Vagabond has crap tank.


Neither of these fits are a garunteed win. You can kill the Vaga with both, but what will likely happen is the Vaga will warp away or just call it a day. You can swap out the AB/MWD in the first fit with a Warp Disruptor, but you have to have real good Gunnery skills to lay down the damage to kill it while it tries to get away.

Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:38:00 - [16]
 

Faction webber.

Superbus Maximus
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:45:00 - [17]
 

Well you can allways try the old manuever away from him and when he begins chase do a 180 sometimes this works at getting people in web range.

kublai
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2007.01.24 20:50:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: kublai on 24/01/2007 20:47:15
Originally by: Superbus Maximus
Well you can allways try the old manuever away from him and when he begins chase do a 180 sometimes this works at getting people in web range.


Would work great paired with web drones released after he starts the chase.

However a vagabond will go 5km/s minimum....a brutix 1.5-2km/s MAX

He will just keep orbiting him, tbh, you're asking "how can I make my gank thorax beat up an ishtar?"

Answer is, unless he ****s up, you can't.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:24:00 - [19]
 

1.Find out where the pilot lives
2.Let him engage you in game
3. Burst into his home and hurl a brick at his face
4. ???
5. Profit

Phelan Lore
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: CherniyVolk

Even the Muninin has way more DPS than the Vagabond.


How so? Both have 5 guns and a 5% damage and RoF bonus.

Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:32:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Phelan Lore
Originally by: CherniyVolk

Even the Muninin has way more DPS than the Vagabond.


How so? Both have 5 guns and a 5% damage and RoF bonus.


I was wondering this myself. I would have thought an Eagle would have worse damage as well.

R'adeh
Gallente
Storm Solutions
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:47:00 - [22]
 

Well, unless he comes close you won't kill him (unless he's stupid). If I were you I'd fit 2 tracking disruptors and laugh at him trying to hit you. Or 2 damps and he HAS to come in close...ofc then you won't have room for an MWD.

Your best bet is to bait him and then force him to come close with with damps. And yes, webber drones help, but don't deploy 'em unless he's within 12k.

Durethia
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:50:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Phelan Lore
Originally by: CherniyVolk

Even the Muninin has way more DPS than the Vagabond.


How so? Both have 5 guns and a 5% damage and RoF bonus.


Becuase Arty Munins are not uncommon.

Arties on a Vaga is about as common as railguns on a Deimos.

KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:57:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: R'adeh
Well, unless he comes close you won't kill him (unless he's stupid). If I were you I'd fit 2 tracking disruptors and laugh at him trying to hit you.


problem with this tactic is he can keep me there and HE laughs at me as long as he want or till his backup arrives... Cause I still can't run away if I engage him at a belt. In case of a gate its something else. There it would work. Just the problem again are the missing 5th mid slot, cause I would likely give up on a webber and replace it with webbing drones, but I can't give up on a cap booster in times of the evil nos.
And I love my damage to much to fit nos on my ships. Except they are designed to fit nos.

Audemed
Nex Exercitus
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.24 23:13:00 - [25]
 

Really, the only hope you have is to get him to engage within your web range. Try and keep moving around between areas you can escape, gates/stations/etc. Dual web is a must, if he gets away from you, well, you're SOL. Just try to maneuver around a bit, see where he warps to when he follows you, try to land ontop of him, or get him to land on you.

ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
Posted - 2007.01.25 00:41:00 - [26]
 

Railguns

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.01.25 00:48:00 - [27]
 

al the responses here are nice but if u want to kill a vaga in a brutix ur only hope is that he's a noob. if not u aint gonna do ith without friends

DE



Xenocidal Rage
Posted - 2007.01.25 04:30:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
1.Find out where the pilot lives
2.Let him engage you in game
3. Burst into his home and hurl a brick at his face
4. ???
5. Profit



Rofl, you win this thread. Laughing

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.01.25 12:19:00 - [29]
 

Don't try to kill it. No ship can defeat any other ship the vaga brutix is a greta example zero chance for the brutix.


Simply try to overtank him. Vagabons have not so uber firepower. So if you stop firing conserve your cap and use welll your injectors you might get to the gate. Then jump

So first thing is.. retrieve your drones heas to gate as fast as you can.. Stop firing. And use your repair capability to keep you alive.

If you can fit a corpus nos as he is likely been using better. You will balance things much more.

You CAN tank it. My cyclone have tanked vagabonds long enough for me to travel 30 km to gate. Just pray that your cap booster charges stock is enough.

siliconix
x13
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.01.25 12:24:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon


If you can fit a corpus nos as he is likely been using better. You will balance things much more.

You CAN tank it. My cyclone have tanked vagabonds long enough for me to travel 30 km to gate. Just pray that your cap booster charges stock is enough.


How are you gonna jump after you got aggression by using your corpum nos ?, and..fitting a 60m nos on a 30m bc.. doesnt sound too cost effective.



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