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blankseplocked Walking in stations A new form of game play?
 
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.25 14:56:00 - [61]
 

id imagine the walking in stations would be a non combat envrioment for a long time. EVE has trouble with blobs it could never do Planetside style MMOFPS in a station while a blob fights outside.

Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2007.01.25 16:18:00 - [62]
 

That c an be easily ran on diffrent servers.
Anyways, why wuld immortal demigod like average pod pilot go personaly and shoot people? Why wuldnt I just send 40000 marines i can easily afford and trasport? :)

Macmuelli
Gallente
Meltd0wn
Posted - 2007.01.30 09:36:00 - [63]
 

I think kidnapping isnt a good idea... Imagine u get kidnapped and your corp needs 2 weeks to get the isks paying you out?

well 2 weeks the kidnapped player cant do anything....
means no reason anymore to play eve cos a waste of rl cash if u cant do anything....and wait that u get free......

some ideas

1. social interaction ( Bars, Personal rentable rooms i can buy stuff for ...)
2. implant of "holoreal rooms" give players a pvp chance perhaps integrate a connection for battles system/region wide
3.integrate a station security system ( floor based - like system security from 0.0 -> 1.0 (public floors - deep to the "dirty unlaw corners of the station etc..)
4. integrate of Production faciltys where u can build things and keep supporting personal jobs... skill based and a chance finishing jobs earlier then now if u do it on a station
5. integrate Agents / missions station intern.... ( a chance for more role playing)

pa example... research facilty on station has a spy.... u had to look for him.....and get him
more specilizing like hacking doors /security systems to find him + at least a fight....

6. integrate missions region wide to infiltrate other stations and there faciltys to sabotage them or destroy research jobs etc....
(new chance for pvp situations )

7. investing in station shares to get dividende out of it etc...
( if u like ppls to refine ore and making buisness on your station keep it clear from sabotage etc..... means a lot of pvp)

i think the possibilty of integrate stuff on stations/planets is endless)

fearing beeing a grandpa one day in and playiong this gameLaughing

best reg

mac






Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
Malum Exuro
Posted - 2007.01.30 16:15:00 - [64]
 

Not many people like the idea of kidnapping, people dont understand that you can chose to go alone with teh kidnap or you can just try to escape and call there bluff by letting them A, shoot you or B, you escape, even then if you are killed you have your clone...

Like your ideas Macmuelli, you have the same thought as me as there being mroe you can do that just simply WALKING in stations. To be honest I think teh idea would be a bit lame to have if you can only walk around in teh station, you may as well go play sims or Habo Hotel(TM)

Aleric Vikyz
AnTi.
Atrocitas
Posted - 2007.02.13 12:52:00 - [65]
 

Gambling
Gambling, in various forms, would give players a reason to walk around the station, alongaside from socializing. I would probably have to go into a twelve-step program for Eve if I was able to run my own Casino, let alone bet my brand-new Raven on a game of poker.


Also, I know I'm speaking heresy here, but you should consider looking into "Star Wars: Platt's Starport Guide" from West End Games. It's a superbly written sourcebook that just might give you a few extra ideas. If you need help finding a copy, as WEG lost it's SW license to Wizards of the Crap, I'll gladly help... YARRRR!!

Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2007.02.13 14:06:00 - [66]
 

Try it like that:

There are three types of weapons: Stunning, Melee, Guns
There is support Equipment: Manufacturing Equipment, Science Equipment, Personal Defense Equipment, etc.

You equip all weapons and support equipment every time you dock. When you enter the station, you are in your hangar - noone may enter here except yourself, here you can equip at a special terminal. There is an elevator that leads to your corp office, offering several services you can do only here. Meetings (usable chairs), move accepting new players here, maybe more...
The elevator also leads to a place that's open to anyone, here you can meet people, trade and such.

1.0 to 0.8 forbids all weapons - you're unable to equip them.
0.7 to 0.5 only allows stun weapons - you can stun an enemy for some time. (Seconds? Minutes?)
0.4 to 0.1 allows stun and melee weapons - you might even run into some NPC pirates that roam the area and might attack you, not mentioning the other players...
0.0 allows all weapons - there are no restrictions, and there are both players and pirate NPCs around.

Have those NPC pirates only attack if your standing is below a certain rate and you've got a good base to start with...

Hammering Hank
Caldari
Posted - 2007.02.20 07:43:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Hammering Hank on 20/02/2007 07:40:07
An aspect I see of walking is stations is the ability to combine this with NPC missions and complexes. I would love to see a mission where I had to actually enter a mining facility and find a hostage after I dealt with the rats guarding it. I would also like to enter the stations in complexes to do hacking, intelligence gathering, sabotage, or the like.

Eventually, I would like to walk on planets and moons. This would be especially in the aspect of finding artifacts from past races like the Sleepers in their ruins, or scooting caves for specific crystals or minerals for very specialized items.

In addition to the socializing aspect of walking in stations, ultimately I would like to see more interaction with the EVE empires. I would like to take part in the advertised events of the governments, like the election and installment of a new leader, or a rescue mission to a planet with a virus outbreak, or even attend the board meeting of Caldari Provisions. Ultimately, I would like to see EVE players actually in the game's eco-system, running the governments and organizations. Can you imagine an EVE player being promoted through Caldari Provisions to the CEO based on their actions, or the scandal when the player is caught embezzling billions of ISK? Smile

(T)Hank(s)

Blackback Starkiel
EveArt Studios
Posted - 2007.09.15 12:07:00 - [68]
 

@ Lord Evangelian

Good initiative creating this thread. I'm really looking forward to the walking-in-station expansion, it's nice to have a chance to speculate and give ideas on it. Performance-wise, it seems CCP will have station interiors on separate servers -- that actually means less stress on the rest of the space nodes if people head out of their ship; a brilliant approach I think.

You have some good ideas, but I think some of them are not really realistic game-balance wise.

First of all, I find it very unlikely there will be a FPS mode. Most likely gameplay will be similar to what we see in the video -- the character seen from the outside. I imagine we'll click on the ground to move to places in a similar way as we do now, only with an avatar and not with a ship.

I don't see kidnapping and attacking other players as working in any other capacity than as part of a pre-arranged RP scenario. The main reason is that CCP has already made clear no station services will be "unique" to the walk-around mode. This makes sense, if this mode is to be optional. This means, if you could get killed or kidnapped or whatever in a station, players with lots of modules etc. would not use that mode, simple as that. I see your point in expanding the EVE experience, but as far as the current plans go, including these vulnerabilities will just have people stay in their pod.

As has been mentioned in different forms before, I think that using a "stand-in" replica of oneself, like a remote-controlled android duplica (think Ghost in the shell) would probably be the one reasonable thing to do for a capsuleer. I see no reason why this would be a clone at all; it would just be a "terminal" for the pilot's mind, an android. It can look exactly like your character; there is no reason why not in a technologically advanced society. Maybe you rent it at the station for a price, automatically outfitting and reshaping the face for you and equip it with whatever custom set of equipment you like, for a reasonable fee.

Using such "terminals" one could indeed introduce risks and combat in stations -- but it would also render this rather pointless game-wise. With everyone in desposable bodies, it can easily turn into a respawn game where killing just means they pop back to shoot back right away. That's not the kind of game I would want to see, at least. A solution and repercussion of killing the terminal body could be that destruction of the body will disable the terminal service for a few hours (the pilot can still do everything in space, just not reenter that station again until "a new custom terminal has been constructed"). Also, kidnapping and the like would be pointless, since the true pilot is not really there.

Anyway if there are risks, I do think such a system of "not using your real body" is probably needed or people will not leave their pods. Maybe it could be *possible* to actually go in yourself instead of using a terminal body -- but then it should be an optional thing, people would mainly be using it for RP purposes ("I have this thing with terminals, I prefer to see things with my own eyes" and the like).

The espionage suggestion is interesting. It could be a way to obtain NPC mission objectives. Not sure about player alliances -- you suggest giving out info about their fleet positions from the database?
.
Blackback

Blackback Starkiel
EveArt Studios
Posted - 2007.09.15 12:07:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Blackback Starkiel on 15/09/2007 12:38:16
An issue I'm a bit concerned about is the concept of currency.

CCP is always interested in introducing new ways for us to spend our ISK, and the station environment will most likely introduce a lot of such opportunities -- even if little of that is coming in the initial release, I predict there will be a big push from the community to get custimizable equipment, clothes and so on. If "actions" are possible in the stations (not just fighting actions, I'm thinking of other actions like drinking a glass of beer, operating a terminal, throw darts, play cards, handling a map interface and so on. Maybe even dancing, but in designated clubs only Wink ), there will be an outcry from the community for outfits and items to buy and equip. You can always discuss the benefits of this, but it will happen. There will eventually be custom office decors and stuff as well, just wait and see. EVE is about freedom of choice; once CCP opens the genie's bottle and allows people to walk around, there will swiftly be demands for doing more with that experience. I predict a "personal effects market" to come to life before long -- individual items that are only of use to you in stations, everything from drinks to a custom dart set or a fancy uniform.


The main concern I have is that of ISK. The ISK is a huge currency and compared to normal people, capsuleers are filthy rich. Normal people cannot afford to own even a frigate -- that's a piece of military-grade hardware for "only" 30 000 ISK. A drink in the bar can't even cost a full ISK to buy, by comparison. There is no reason to think any clothes, personal items or even piece of furniture (if it comes to that) would ever cost more than a few dozen ISK, tops. Which is of course peanuts. Renting an apartment or office would cost more, but that would probably be the top line of station-service cost.

This means there will be no feeling of want in stations -- you can afford everything and there's nothing you cannot afford. There's nothing logically stopping your from buying everything in the bar (and if that's possible, many will, watch and see). You're filling your cargo hold with thousands of units of small arms -- why shouldn't you afford to buy one single super-gun for yourself? There's no reason why any single item should be out of your prize range.

This is a serious problem for the station expandion, if we are to do anything more than just walk around and chat to each other. If people can afford everything in a personal-affairs shop, everyone will soon have the top stuff and be bored to death with the monotony of it. There must be a sense of want, of challenge, in every little thing or it will be pointless to have diversity except for pure RP reasons.

How to introduce want in an elitist society of filthy rich people?
One way would be to make items in limited editions. Everyone would have access to top-of-the line stuff compared to rest of non-capuleer society, but this would just be standard stuff for a capsuleer. But capsuleers want the very best, the unique, prototype things. The real top of the line things you cannot buy in the open market because there were only a few of them. You have to run a mission to get it. Or trade it with the owner for your own rare item. This would create a market for these items that follow very different rules than the normal market, a market for collectors and conneseurs, trading in technology most of human society can hardly dream of. These are things you find in units of one -- so pointless to put in your hold, but things that give you respectful glances when you show up dressed in them or carry them in your belt.
.
Blackback

SmokeTheFly
Caldari
Elite Force
Posted - 2007.09.15 12:25:00 - [70]
 

Station AI service staff anyone?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6992613.stm

Quote:
Researchers at US firm Novamente have created software that learns by controlling avatars in virtual worlds.


Shocked

Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2007.09.15 21:10:00 - [71]
 

With all those first person shooter issues You still kep missing the scale. I'm not a rich pilot, but I can easily buy a 2 million people and move it in freighters to a contested station. Reasonable prices for tanks, gun emplacements, mechs etc, would be about 5-100k, they are all still tiny and technologicaly simple compared to spaceships. So nothing you cant use in large masses. Also check the size of those stations. 10x10x10km is way more then modern Mexico City (Mexico City is not 10km high), that can hold multimillion population plus ships and hangars and factories and laboratories and such.

If station combat was to be ever implemented, it should be a king of strategy game for control of station areas, hangars and installations. One man, no matter how good shooter and how superhuman, does not matter against 1 million of marines.
In extreme cases of cool implementation this might be watched and commanded in 3D environment, in your walking character. Without that, its better if stations remain in current design, as non combat areas for admiring the size of Your ship :)

Unity Love
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.09.16 01:49:00 - [72]
 

You people do realise we are in the future? EvE lore says we cant exit the pod, why not a hologram? sure you would think about hand to hand trade aspect, but that would basically be, ok the trade is complete, items put in teleporter insde my ship and teleported to you and vise versa... just like it is now, i would guess. or machines come on board, take the item and then leave to be the trustworthy middle man... :D just a thought, i mean we are in the FUTURE.

Flawliss
Gallente
Pilots of True Potential
Posted - 2007.09.16 11:44:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Blackback Starkiel
Edited by: Blackback Starkiel on 15/09/2007 12:38:16
An issue I'm a bit concerned about is the concept of currency.

CCP is always interested in introducing new ways for us to spend our ISK, and the station environment will most likely introduce a lot of such opportunities -- even if little of that is coming in the initial release, I predict there will be a big push from the community to get custimizable equipment, clothes and so on. If "actions" are possible in the stations (not just fighting actions, I'm thinking of other actions like drinking a glass of beer, operating a terminal, throw darts, play cards, handling a map interface and so on. Maybe even dancing, but in designated clubs only Wink ), there will be an outcry from the community for outfits and items to buy and equip. You can always discuss the benefits of this, but it will happen. There will eventually be custom office decors and stuff as well, just wait and see. EVE is about freedom of choice; once CCP opens the genie's bottle and allows people to walk around, there will swiftly be demands for doing more with that experience. I predict a "personal effects market" to come to life before long -- individual items that are only of use to you in stations, everything from drinks to a custom dart set or a fancy uniform. ...


...How to introduce want in an elitist society of filthy rich people?
One way would be to make items in limited editions. Everyone would have access to top-of-the line stuff compared to rest of non-capuleer society, but this would just be standard stuff for a capsuleer. But capsuleers want the very best, the unique, prototype things. The real top of the line things you cannot buy in the open market because there were only a few of them. You have to run a mission to get it. Or trade it with the owner for your own rare item. This would create a market for these items that follow very different rules than the normal market, a market for collectors and conneseurs, trading in technology most of human society can hardly dream of. These are things you find in units of one -- so pointless to put in your hold, but things that give you respectful glances when you show up dressed in them or carry them in your belt.
.
Blackback



Excellent Views here, a more trade driven Shop system for Station type items would make a very interesting and different dynamic then Market and contract systems we have for other things, and also keep many of those items from clogging up those systems with Station type items that Ship only players view.

Perhaps providing new agent types only available from using ambulation system could provide ways to acquire items like this.

As far as isk sinks, while Booze and such won't cost alot, Perhaps A gambling table will take a percentage, part of that goes to the owner, and the other goes to the station for the legalization of gambling as a tax, to help poor young refugees (in Gallente stations) or is concidered a religious donation (for Amarr stations) Bigger the pot, bigger the sink.

Perhaps the Dancing girls are the best there are, and cost a few thousand ISK per dance. Laughing

As far as combat in stations, i'm really not interested, i get my fix in space, though i'm far from set against Ambulation itself, Spying however is interesting, and perhaps the information you gain isn't fleet positions, but what a corp or alliance has in research or in building que at a station, or what their paying for a wardec at a Concord station. Even who is docked in what ship, to idenify peoples ships inside a station. May even be a reason to get out of the ship once in a while.

Some thoughts, enjoy.

Blackback Starkiel
EveArt Studios
Posted - 2007.09.16 11:48:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Blackback Starkiel on 16/09/2007 11:52:01

Originally by: Unity Love
You people do realise we are in the future? EvE lore says we cant exit the pod, why not a hologram? sure you would think about hand to hand trade aspect, but that would basically be, ok the trade is complete, items put in teleporter insde my ship and teleported to you and vise versa... just like it is now, i would guess. or machines come on board, take the item and then leave to be the trustworthy middle man... :D just a thought, i mean we are in the FUTURE.


I do think a "physical" form, like a remote-controlled android or clone would fit better, since one will want to physically "do" things in station -- drink a beer, play pool etc. I agree it works best if the "real" pilot stays in the pod though.

... heh, that's another idea though -- for all we know, the station environment could all be virtual -- a virtual world inside the world of EVE itself that capsuleers use to communicate with others ... that would explain a completely different skill set needed and even make it have a separate "virtual money" system and solve the "I'm carrying 10000 small arms in my hold, why wouldn't I be able to afford anything I come across in person" problem. Just because you're rich in the "real" world of EVE, you don't have to be rich in the virtual world you use when interacting in stations. Would that be the first MMORPG to be located inside another MMORPG?

Probably a little too weird. But still kinda cool.
.
Blackback

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2007.09.16 12:05:00 - [75]
 

@OP:

All nice and fine, but that is material for a standalone game.

If this should come into EVE:

1. I'll charge you the part of my sub that I am held hostage.
2. I'll charge you for my clone I had to buy because some tard that cannot make it in space killed me in a bar.

I am strongly against the Ambulation project, as it will not add anything significant to EVE and just detract from the main game.

There are plenty of other MMOs with full body avatars, some even space based. EVE is unique in it's own way and I want it to stay like that. that's all

This is a spaceship based MMO. A nice graphical chat won't add to the game.

Blackback Starkiel
EveArt Studios
Posted - 2007.09.16 13:00:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Hugh Ruka
@OP:
I am strongly against the Ambulation project, as it will not add anything significant to EVE and just detract from the main game.

There are plenty of other MMOs with full body avatars, some even space based. EVE is unique in it's own way and I want it to stay like that. that's all

This is a spaceship based MMO. A nice graphical chat won't add to the game.


It's a good thing it's going to be optional. I see walking in stations mainly as a RP-boost for EVE. I guess it's a matter of philosophy, wether this added layer of immersion is a good thing for EVE or not. If one's playing the game solely for the game mechanics, I see your point, station-walking detracts from the "purity" of the game in a way. But if you're aiming to have your character "live" the world of EVE, walking in stations is the best expansion ever.
.
Blackback (who replied despite not being the OP)

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2007.09.16 14:24:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Hugh Ruka on 16/09/2007 14:27:28
Originally by: Blackback Starkiel
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
@OP:
I am strongly against the Ambulation project, as it will not add anything significant to EVE and just detract from the main game.

There are plenty of other MMOs with full body avatars, some even space based. EVE is unique in it's own way and I want it to stay like that. that's all

This is a spaceship based MMO. A nice graphical chat won't add to the game.


It's a good thing it's going to be optional. I see walking in stations mainly as a RP-boost for EVE. I guess it's a matter of philosophy, wether this added layer of immersion is a good thing for EVE or not. If one's playing the game solely for the game mechanics, I see your point, station-walking detracts from the "purity" of the game in a way. But if you're aiming to have your character "live" the world of EVE, walking in stations is the best expansion ever.
.
Blackback (who replied despite not being the OP)


1. If this is only optional and a sidetrack, it cannot gain influence on the main gameplay. So all ambulation content is restricted to chatting, emotes and watching stars out of windows.

2. If it gains influence over the main game, then it stopped being optional.

case 1. it is a waste of time and resource however you take it (I know there is a separate team and yadda yadda, yet still somebody has to pay them and the HW).

case 2. EVE changes and looses some of it's originality which I do not agree with.

There are other reasons also, but anyway I look at it, it is not needed and in the long run will create more problems than content.

btw. Just look at EVE-Voice. It is optional too, it is hosted by a separate company, yet there are fixes in each patch notes since introduction. And the popularity is realy staggering ...

Blackback Starkiel
EveArt Studios
Posted - 2007.09.16 14:55:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Hugh Ruka


1. If this is only optional and a sidetrack, it cannot gain influence on the main gameplay. So all ambulation content is restricted to chatting, emotes and watching stars out of windows.

2. If it gains influence over the main game, then it stopped being optional.

case 1. it is a waste of time and resource however you take it (I know there is a separate team and yadda yadda, yet still somebody has to pay them and the HW).

case 2. EVE changes and looses some of it's originality which I do not agree with.

There are other reasons also, but anyway I look at it, it is not needed and in the long run will create more problems than content.


Good and fair points. Here's my take:

1) Even if the walking in stations has no real impact on the game mechanic per se (as per case 1), it will still have a huge impact on the social part of the game. Indirectly this has an impact on the rest of the game too of course, through the bonds and contacts people can acquire. Not to mention the boost in RP possibilities. If this impact will be big enough so as to "force" pilots out of their pods remains to be seen, but I don't think so -- most communication will remain over neocom since people are spread out over the galaxy. I think that station-visiting will, at lest initially, be mainly an RP thing. If that is of no interest to you, fine. For me at least, that's my main interest in playing EVE.

2) If (which I think it will), out-of-ship gaming will have more impact on the game as time passes, I fail to see why this would detract from EVE:s originality. CCP has been aiming from the start to make the game as gritty realistic as possible -- the ultimate space sim, emulating a living galaxy on as many levels as possible. Leaving the ship and exist as a separate individual is just the next step. I think the differing philosophies are coming in again. Is EVE a game to beat or a world to live in? That makes all the difference.
.
Blackback

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2007.09.16 15:56:00 - [79]
 

Any feature could be added to the walking in stations and would likely help our experience. The features should stick to the social aspect of eve and no game mechanic should be brought into the station. The whole point of eve is that is set in space not in a station.

Reachok
Amarr
Wrecking Shots
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2007.09.16 15:57:00 - [80]
 

No fighting in stations, m'k? Social interaction, but please no lap dancing. (If you must ask why, remember that 90% ofthe females in this game are run by guys)

Trading, as someone said doing an interview with someone sitting across a table from you drinking a beer, Quaff, whatever.

But no fighting in stations. When Eve goes to planets, then yeah. Person to person fighting outside of your ship, sure. But not in stations.

James Swindle
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.09.16 17:45:00 - [81]
 

I agree with the above post, no fighting in station (at least in the forseeable future). Whenever we get planets to colonise, then thats is where the fighting should take place, if that was a FPS/3rd person shooter or RTS style combat I dont mind either since there both great.

Also I would much prefer FPS style controls for controlling you avatar over point and click. Much more slick and there is then less risk of you avatar being stupid and getting stuck behind chairs, tables, other characters etc etc.

Also if there is no fighting in station there is no reason to add androids/holograms or whatever since there is no now fear of getting you avatar shot in the station.

Urzza
Posted - 2007.09.16 18:04:00 - [82]
 

Instead of adding a whole new skill tree for using weapons in station, why not just base them off the skills we have?

For example, if you train up Small Projectile weapons, you can use Pistols, SMGs, and light rifles.
I'm not sure what the other weapon skills would give you, maybe hybrids out give you plasma guns (Liken to flamers) and some sort of long range, accurate, but less damaging gun.

Missiles and rockets would be the hard thing to do, Maybe have them give you different forms of grenades?

And, for you shadowrunners out there, drone skills = Rigger!

Bigeasy
Caldari
It's A Trap
Posted - 2007.09.16 23:59:00 - [83]
 

I just want to bar fight.

Picture this, you leave secure space to a lowsec area. You are jumped by a pirate and destroyed. You wake up and a few hours later you see your assailant laughing in a bar about how he ganked some noob. You roll up your sleeves and throw a chair.

C'mon it would be great.


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