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blankseplocked Thorax PvP setups - why small guns?
 
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Taerenius
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.15 03:46:00 - [1]
 

In the Rev Thorax PvP setup thread a large portion of people are fitting light neutron blasters to the thorax so they can fit a 1600mm plate. I understand the reasoning of this, but the Thorax's skill bonus only gives dmg bonus to medium blasters, and at gallente cruiser 4, a 20% bonus to damage is HUGE, especially when you factor in the extra damage a heavy electron blaster does over a light neutron (as well as the significantly larger range which should allow for easier antimatter use, as it stands with light neutron II's my range with antimatter is like 1080m optimal and 2625m falloff which is abyssmal).

So, is it really worth losing that huge amount of DPS for an extra ~2100hp? It seems to me the extra damage of using medium blasters would more than makeup for any lost tank hp.

Just want to know, my alt flies mainly a taranis and ishkur right now but is moving into a thorax for a cheap pvp alternative and I want to figure out the best setup(s) before beginning to throw them away ;)

DiuxDium
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.01.15 03:52:00 - [2]
 

Medium Blaster

Tis a good setup. Replace with T2 where you can. It's a tight fit last I checked with T2 Electrons, possible though. Fragile little girl, but with ECM drones you have about a 14% chance of jamming a BC. Or you can add about 110~ dps by going with Combat drones. Up to you really.

X99 Z990
Posted - 2007.01.15 04:30:00 - [3]
 

Small blaster thorax can tear apart frigates and also if you dont have T2 medium trained, 5x small neutron IIs sometimes will outdamage 5x medium ion Is.

T2 medium blasters on a thorax will get you some mean damage though and would kill a small gun setup thorax no problem.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2007.01.15 05:04:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: X99 Z990
Small blaster thorax can tear apart frigates and also if you dont have T2 medium trained, 5x small neutron IIs sometimes will outdamage 5x medium ion Is.

T2 medium blasters on a thorax will get you some mean damage though and would kill a small gun setup thorax no problem.
No it wont, with medium blasters you do not have med nos nor 1600mm plate, before you kill my small blasters thorax, u will die because end of cap or just end of armor.

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2007.01.15 05:04:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 15/01/2007 05:02:06
Originally by: X99 Z990
if you dont have T2 medium trained, 5x small neutron IIs sometimes will outdamage 5x medium ion Is.

Hmmm?

I did some calculations once... What I remember of finding was that 5x small neutron IIs with void came up just barely short of 5x medium electron Is with antimatter.

Am I wrong, or just remembering wrong?

To address the OP: Nah, IMO it isn't worth it. I hate how my Thorax handles with an 800mm, let alone a 1600mm anyway.

My favorite build:
5x med electron II
MWD, scram, web
MAR II, 800mm plate, tank mods

Tank: Getting a 20km scram on there is tight on CPU. So if you want to go with a 7.5km scram, you can do 3x active hardeners here. If you want to go with a 20km, you can go 2x EANM I/II and a DC. If you want more damage, go EANM, DC, and a mag stab.

Of course there's a suicide/comedy/omgwtfdps setup (now with added insanity!):
5x med neutrons
MWD, scram, web
RCU II, 400mm plate, 2x magstab II, DC

With my skills and tech 2 drones, that will do 522 dps. I've never used it in any practical combat... just horsing around with friends. I wonder if anyone has used something like this successfully... it just seems too expensive to suicide for me. Very Happy

EDIT: Of course, if the small gun rax has a NOS, that's an entirely different story for an entirely different thread. MadRolling Eyes

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2007.01.15 05:08:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Valandril on 15/01/2007 05:04:45
Thats the point, small blastrax always should go for nos :D
And thtats why it win :-)

Ice Conch
Exit 13
Posted - 2007.01.15 05:28:00 - [7]
 

5 heavy electrons II

10mn AB (i think)
web
scram

SAR II
3x whatever, with an RCU II i think you can fit a mwd
1600 RT plate

Gank and Tank in one nice package Very Happy

Firecrak
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2007.01.15 05:57:00 - [8]
 

You may wana check out Lyticus' A Pirates Life video (think its on eve-files). He has both a small and medium setup thorax in the video (1v1 pirate stuff). I liked the medium setup much better.

Orvas Dren
Gallente
Clandestine Pharmaceuticals
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.01.15 07:02:00 - [9]
 

With proper cap management, good navigation skills for the MWD and cruiser 5, a med blaster Thorax is the only way to fly, IMO.

I run:

5 x Heavy Ion II

Y-T8 MWD
Fleeting 20km
Fleeting Web

Medium Armor Rep II
2 x Mag Stab II
named Damage control
PDS I (nothing better to fit really and it gives me the tiny bit of PG I am missing til I finish AWU 5.

Along with my 5 x Valkyrie II, this will do sufficient damage, rep long enough and turn like a Thorax should when orbiting.

Just dont bother with the T2 ammo, useless crap.

This managed to take a Rupture to a pod before the Rupture could finish my shields. :) Was the most beautiful thing I had seen.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2007.01.15 07:08:00 - [10]
 

That rupture even shoot ? :P
And your setup will loose to smallblaster, to vexor and anything that deal good dps and got 7k armor + repper. Not even mention that even with awesome cap skills, navigation against sinlge nos u will be dry pretty fast.
Also med repper itself is too slow imo.

Enigmier
Posted - 2007.01.15 07:19:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Valandril
That rupture even shoot ? :P
And your setup will loose to smallblaster, to vexor and anything that deal good dps and got 7k armor + repper. Not even mention that even with awesome cap skills, navigation against sinlge nos u will be dry pretty fast.
Also med repper itself is too slow imo.


i think you overestimate the ability of the small blasterax,a medium fitted rax is far superior,
small neutron fit was king when the rax could fit 5 heavy drones in its bay, that was where the damage came from back in the day, but now small blasters have no place on a rax, they are simply too small a damage and range to be of any real use,

sure your going to gank the odd noob or mining ship with them, but on the whole its a waste of a fine cruiser

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2007.01.15 07:36:00 - [12]
 

I was flying both setups, and i still preffer small blaster, they still produce v. good dps and got awesome tank. I got couple bc kills in it but here enemy didnt play his ship too well :P
Its all in prefferences, if u preffer to just bang bang pray for no nossing/heavy dps back - fly med blasters.
If you wanna got more controlled fight, get smallblasters.

Just try it with your friends and find out which gaming style you preffer.

Taerenius
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.15 18:16:00 - [13]
 

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

My alt that flies gallente only has Gallente cruiser 4 and Medium hybrid 4 right now (as opposed to small blaster spec 4) so it may be better until I have medium blaster spec 3 or 4 to use the small blasters.

I have AWU 4 so I can fit some decent setups. I bought fittings to try out both a small and medium blaster setup. The small blaster setup I have 4 T2 light neutrons and a medium 'knave' nos (keeping the fitting cheap as hell until I have experience flying this ship) and a 1600mm plate in low (though I have to admit the handling of this ship is downright sucky and annoying with the 1600mm plate, plus it goes way slower than I'd like).

With the medium setup I currently have 5 medium electrons (best named I think I bought), and will test fitting with either a 400mm or 800mm plate. Other than that both setups are the same.

I did notice one other weird thing - every thorax setup I've seen has a web, and pretty much every setup has a scram as well (though some have cap boosters). Most of the scrams seem to be 20km. My question is, why would you want to use a 20km scram when you already have to be within 10km to use your web and less than 5km to use your blasters effectively anyway? Plus the 20km uses way way way more cap and has harsher fitting requirements.

Just curious - is it so you can scram someone before they have a chance to warp away? More than likely I'll be ganking with my brother in his rupture and we'll both be running scrams.

Shadrin
Gallente
Viper Intel Squad
Pure.
Posted - 2007.01.15 18:19:00 - [14]
 

Just curious, what do you guys call "good" DPS? Because I'm not seeing how you can kill much with these setups. Especially anything bigger than a cruiser.

Tisanta
Amarr
Stargazer Exploration Company
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2007.01.15 18:19:00 - [15]
 

if u use small blasters on this ship u lose out on the ultra bonus, 5 drones without mod IS NOT! enough dps and 5 small guns just sucks.. this ship is a gank ship with room for a dcu and repper ( other 3 lows are damage mods:P).

if you want to use drones i suggest vexor 50% bonus 25% guns = more damage than rax..

Dracon Zethera
Gallente
Quantum Industries
Posted - 2007.08.02 02:51:00 - [16]
 

You use a 20km jammer because the target may warp by the time you are within 10km, and even at 10km they can still warp before you get within 7km.

PathetiQ
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
Posted - 2007.08.02 03:47:00 - [17]
 

THE HEAVY GANK SETUP:

5 t2 heavy ion : with null ammo
mwd, web x5, disruptor
medium armor rep t2, 3 mag field stab t2, last can be: eanm t2/explosive hardener/...

5 ecm drone to help with the NO TANK setup ;)

its near 300-350++ dps with cruiser 5

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2007.08.02 04:54:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Dracon Zethera
You use a 20km jammer because the target may warp by the time you are within 10km, and even at 10km they can still warp before you get within 7km.


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