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blankseplocked Why don't people fly Fleet Command ships?
 
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:34:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 03/01/2007 23:34:54
Vagabond. 210 million.

Cerberus. 200 million.

Astarte. 135 million.

Nighthawk. 195 million.

Vulture/Damnation/Claymore? 60-65 million. So cheap that they're basically below build cost.

People whine about tech 2 prices, but why don't I see more people flying these Fleet Command ships? They're so cheap that insurance should pay out effectively for them, and they're hardly more ISK than a T1 Tier 2 battlecruiser like the Drake.

Sure, one might say that not everyone needs it for the Fleet Command role. But heck, at that price, wouldn't the ship be effective as a combat ship too?

Do they really suck that badly, or is everyone so obsessed with HACs that they forget about these cost-efficient ships?

subvert
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:40:00 - [2]
 

its more of a skill thing. you need BC V. people use tier 2 battlecruisers atm. BC V is a skill investment.

Smets
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:42:00 - [3]
 

I'd better go out and buy 20 and wait for the day the prices rise

Shocked
ugh
Neutral

Emo Jelli
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:44:00 - [4]
 

People do already fly Command Ships, thanks for asking.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:44:00 - [5]
 

Damnation:
tank - a little better than absolution
gank - a little better than... frigate. Worse than AF (or sabre)...

Prefer Field command which tanks tad worse (yeah just some explo and kin resist loss) but deals 2,5-3x more damage

Tousaka Langley
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:45:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Tousaka Langley on 03/01/2007 23:45:51
Have you compared a Nighthawk to a Vulture? The Vulture has it's uses, no doubt, but it isn't nearly to the same extent as the Nighthawk. The vulture has no damage augmentations on it. It can tank like a pro, no doubt in my mind, but its DPS isn't there for any type of solo work.

Then again, I got my Nighthawk back when they sucked. Hell, I think it was cheaper then a Vulture at that point.

Marquis Dean
Caldari
Indigo Fade
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:50:00 - [7]
 

The Vulture has a hooooge range bonus and in alot of PvP that range bonus equates to a damage bonus in that you can use more high-damage ammo at longer ranges, e.g: antimatter out to 45km or whatever (I completely made that up, i've no idea what it would come to).

Wilfan Ret'nub
Singularity.
The SUdden Death Squad
Posted - 2007.01.03 23:52:00 - [8]
 

Astarte and Nighthawk need BC 5, too, so that's not the problem. Logistics IV is, though. Rank 6, Will/Perc based, with Sig. Analysis V (hm, usefull) and Long Range Targeting V (aaaargh) as prerequisites.

The real problem are only 5 turret slots on Nighthawk and Claymore and 4 on Damnation (Laughing).

In cotrast, Eos gets 7 turrets. Though it has only 1 turret bonus, the "missing" one is more than compensated by drone bay bonus. No wonder you coldn't include it among the "value FCs".

Marquis Dean
Caldari
Indigo Fade
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:06:00 - [9]
 

Yeah but the Eos doesn't work well in an offensive role, since it lacks a drone damage/hitpoint bonus, drones being it's primary weapon system, or at least half of a split. That one fact alone put me off and I went Amarr rather than Gallente CBCs.

CherniyVolk
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:09:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Marquis Dean
Yeah but the Eos doesn't work well in an offensive role, since it lacks a drone damage/hitpoint bonus, drones being it's primary weapon system, or at least half of a split. That one fact alone put me off and I went Amarr rather than Gallente CBCs.


Didn't realize the Eos was in such a position.

But the Astarte! OMG! It's a huge Deimos baby!

Waxau
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:11:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 03/01/2007 23:34:54
Vagabond. 210 million.

Cerberus. 200 million.

Astarte. 135 million.

Nighthawk. 195 million.

Vulture/Damnation/Claymore? 60-65 million. So cheap that they're basically below build cost.

People whine about tech 2 prices, but why don't I see more people flying these Fleet Command ships? They're so cheap that insurance should pay out effectively for them, and they're hardly more ISK than a T1 Tier 2 battlecruiser like the Drake.

Sure, one might say that not everyone needs it for the Fleet Command role. But heck, at that price, wouldn't the ship be effective as a combat ship too?

Do they really suck that badly, or is everyone so obsessed with HACs that they forget about these cost-efficient ships?


Mainly due to the skills - Theyre hard to skill up for in terms of time investment. As such, not many people fly them. However they are far from crap.

Vulture = Eagle with better tank and damage...well...unless you have Hac lv 5. Same damage with Hac lv 4 (not including drones).

Eos - Moaned about being too good - No clue why but anyhow.

Claymore..no clue.

Damnation...who knows.

But all i know, is that the vulture kicks ass. I can get 28k hp on that thing, with a 350 second recharge rate. Top that with 70-80% resists, and thats one hell of a tank.

With blasters, its like a Beagle, but better.
With rails, its just as good as an eagle, but boosts ure e-peen more (and cheaper)

So in short..its a skills thing ^^

QwaarJet
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:18:00 - [12]
 

I own a Vulture and used to own an Eos. I like Fleet Command ships, I just prefer the sheer damage of the field commands.

Vulture is a good price though, so much so you can actually insure the thing.

But I'd have any of them over hacs any day.

Part Troll
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:20:00 - [13]
 

I have never quite understood what command ships can do, can anyone tell me?

Mishura Desante
The Scope
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:28:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Mishura Desante on 04/01/2007 00:30:17
Damnation make a great fleet support ship; I happen to fly something of a different setup though - but it tanks like a beast, can do some okay dmg, and is great in its role with command mods and what they affect.

As to their role - it depends on the ship, but I think of them as a hybrid ship of sorts (instead of focusing on dmg, or tank, or ecm, etc; they do them all, but not as effective)

Yarek Balear
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Part Troll
I have never quite understood what command ships can do, can anyone tell me?


They're the T2 equivalent of Battlecruisers... They're what a HAC is to a Cruiser, but in BC form...

The Field Command Ships do lots and lots of damage and the Fleet command ships are more gang focussed.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.01.04 00:58:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Waxau

Vulture = Eagle with better tank and damage...well...unless you have Hac lv 5. Same damage with Hac lv 4 (not including drones).


Actualy damage is equal at HAC 5. Eagle has 4 guns and a 5% damage bonus. 4x1.25=5

So at HAC 5 its 4 guns normalize to 5.

Quote:

Eos - Moaned about being too good - No clue why but anyhow.

Big ol' drone bay with 7 bonused turrets. Compared to any of the other fleet command ships is does the most damage hands down and doesnt lose all that much comparativly fitting its gang mods.

Claymore and Damnation are basically fleet command duty only. Great tanks, but no utility or damage.

ViperVenom
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.04 01:57:00 - [17]
 

The Claymore is rolling Tank. With a full Crystal set/25% implant boni. It pretty much dayum hrad to kill. I kno i fly one. With a Gistii X type xl X Type shiled boost i tank a gang solo.

People just don't want to train all the skills for a fleet command ship thats all. BUt they will still pwn HAC's/BC and most BS solo. and thats just my .09 isk

Kalek Astroth
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
Posted - 2007.01.04 02:38:00 - [18]
 

so true , cs , well fleet ones are cheap , people dont usually fly them cause of skill and cause of their strenght is related to gang modules (can fit 3) so if you are not in a fleet or a quite big gang a fleet cs is ... only a very good tanker
otherwise can nicely boost your gang with helpfull bonus
field cs have good tank and some of them with maxed out skills and high lvl fit can do 1000+dps , only downside that also a mega can have a decent tank do 1000+ dps if maxed out, and most important thing its fully insurable .
btw its also cheaper

Wink

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2007.01.04 02:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 03/01/2007 23:34:54
Vagabond. 210 million.

Cerberus. 200 million.

Astarte. 135 million.

Nighthawk. 195 million.

Vulture/Damnation/Claymore? 60-65 million. So cheap that they're basically below build cost.

People whine about tech 2 prices, but why don't I see more people flying these Fleet Command ships? They're so cheap that insurance should pay out effectively for them, and they're hardly more ISK than a T1 Tier 2 battlecruiser like the Drake.

Sure, one might say that not everyone needs it for the Fleet Command role. But heck, at that price, wouldn't the ship be effective as a combat ship too?

Do they really suck that badly, or is everyone so obsessed with HACs that they forget about these cost-efficient ships?


For starters, the Nighthawk has to have a gank setup to kill certain NPCs, against players it'd be as dangerous as a ferox.

I noticed the Eos is popular, but it also gets a nice omgwtfhuge dronebay.

Oh wait,that's right; the Eos, unlike the others, has 7 unsplit hard-points to compliment its 100-300m3 sized dronebay which by itself can pretty much out DPS the Vulture, Damnation or Claymore.

7 blasters, with a damage bonus, and the ability to field 5 heavies and carry 5 more (or meds/lights), compared to the split systems of the others, and their ****ant damage and single weapon bonus which gets split.

I honestly would love to know wtf CCP was thinking when they released the Eos.Mad

In short DS, yes, those three ships suck. While the Vulture can have a passive tank that is nothing short of absurd, it's only slightly better than the Nighthawk, which will out DPS the Vulture and doesn't need cap for weapons.

Benglada
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.01.04 03:23:00 - [20]
 

bc5 is a long assed skill, essentially.

Ill probably train it on my alt as he can use mini and amarr hacs and recons, thus gaining access to abs damnation claymore and sleipnir.

ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
Posted - 2007.01.04 03:54:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: ViperVenom
The Claymore is rolling Tank. With a full Crystal set/25% implant boni. It pretty much dayum hrad to kill. I kno i fly one. With a Gistii X type xl X Type shiled boost i tank a gang solo.

People just don't want to train all the skills for a fleet command ship thats all. BUt they will still pwn HAC's/BC and most BS solo. and thats just my .09 isk


Congrats, you now have a ship thats hard to kill, can't kill anything and can't tackle. And all that for only the price of a full set of faction implants and the best large booster money can buy.



@ the OP. With the exception of the Eos, these ships only really come into their own when they are used for the purpose they were designed for, gangmods.


Father Weebles
Celestial Refraction
Posted - 2007.01.04 05:27:00 - [22]
 

damage

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:19:00 - [23]
 

"People whine about tech 2 prices, but why don't I see more people flying these Fleet Command ships?"

You only need one per squad/wing/whatever. That hardly makes much demand, and since their strength is in the gang links, they are weaker in other areas.

That, and there's little point for people to train up logistics when they generally already have the heavy assault ships trained and can utilize the ships more suited for regular pew pew already (field commands)

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2007.01.04 06:34:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Emo Jelli
People do already fly Command Ships, thanks for asking.

People fly command ships???WHERE?
He said FLEET command ships,outside of their traditional role they arent used very much besides the uber tank they usually possess because most of them have gimp dps compared to the field command.

Thor Xian
Rebirth.
THE GOD SQUAD
Posted - 2007.01.04 07:17:00 - [25]
 

I'd take the Claymore over the Sleipnir anyday...if I was going to fly either...

Gee'Kin
Tha Specialz
Posted - 2007.01.04 08:46:00 - [26]
 

tho i have a much better tank/dps ration on a nighthawk then on then the bling bling vulture.

Why i ever wasted my time training logistics .. beats me

Shocked

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.01.04 08:52:00 - [27]
 

I'm planning to use fleet command ships, but training the leaderships skills, and logistic-related skills, takes time, so it's a signifiant investment on things that don't improve your own WTFPWN solo skills. I don't think theres that many pilots ready to do that...

Majutsu
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.01.04 08:52:00 - [28]
 

I agree with those about skills, you need to put a hell of a lot of time in to fly them, they are however still quite underated IMO.

Vulture is an awesome tanker, I doubt there's better in the game.

LUKEC
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.04 09:41:00 - [29]
 

I never regretted training for damnation/eos.

But damnation while having gang modules on... i wonder if i can beat passive shield recharge of shuttle. It can tackle well though Laughing

Greyshadow
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Posted - 2007.01.04 10:22:00 - [30]
 

I fly a vulture, admittedly not for awhile I haven't but like many say its a skill thing when it comes to command ships.
Your probably find the nighthawks prices are higher than the vulture due to the fact the vulture requires more skills to fly, oh and also coz its a ganker more than a tanker. Wink


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