open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked For a kill-mission runner, what's the point of non-Command agents ?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 05:19:00 - [1]
 

Personally, I noticed that Command agents give a LOT more LPs and bounties than any other non-Command agents for the same mission.
And no, it's not the standings / effective quality (no big difference or even differnce is reversed), nor the corp (Intsec, Sec and Command agents of same corp and other corps too), neither the secrating of the system (been checking out several, from 0.1 to 0.9).

So what's the point of those other agents ?
And for that matter, what's the point with so many lowlevel Command agents everywhere that almost nobody uses, yet only a handfull of highlevel Command agents ?

Ok, I can dig the "but realistically speaking, you'd expect a lot more lousy agents and..." argument to some small degree, but when the heck did EVE stand for realism instead of gameplay/funfactor ?

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2006.12.28 05:32:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 28/12/2006 05:35:52
they are for indy alts to get standings for empire POS, R&D agents etc.
and btw, the LP an agent gives depends on two things,
the quality of agent and the sec status of his system.
Which does not include the division.
if you know of 2 agents with the same quality, same system sec, which give the same mission for different lp/reward, please tell about it..
another possible thing - you might have trained the connections for command but not for that other agent, you know each division is only affected by two connection skills.

Nimie
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.12.28 05:35:00 - [3]
 

i can't say much for lvl3 and above missions since i don't remember them, but for lvl 2 personel missions, you can finish them in like 3 minutes. you can just kill the one target and leave instead of killing a bunch of stuff.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 06:20:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
another possible thing - you might have trained the connections for command but not for that other agent, you know each division is only affected by two connection skills.

I always re-calc the base LP without the skills. 5% extra compared to base per level of relevant skill.
I get 30% extra compared to base for Command agents, 15% extra for Sec and IntSec.
As for system security level influence, I know it matters quite a bit, but not so much as the difference between divisions.
I'm going to use the "values" from the high-tier missions, because they're the most relevant ones.

1. Motsu Ititeimo, L3 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 42, Oimmo(0.5) -> 2.5k LP (1.9k w/o connections, 1.35k baseQ0?)
2. Umoda Hentogaira, L3 Internal Security @Ishukone, EQ 24, Korama(0.8) -> 0.85k LP (0.74k w/o connections, 0.6k baseQ0?)
3. Kikosuda Partoh, L4 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 31, Aramachi(0.5) -> 6.7k LP (5.15k w/o connections, 3.9k baseQ0?)
4. Pavisailen Aokinisen, L4 Security @Caldari Navy, EQ 21, Saila(0.9) -> 3.5k LP (3.04k w/o connections, 2.5k baseQ0?)
5. Toras Egassuo, L4 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 34, Motsu(0.9) -> 5.1k LP (3.9k w/o connections, 2.9k baseQ0?)

Well, you can figure out what's wrong already.
Not only does division Command give out more LP as other divisions, but it seems that if agent belongs to Caldari Navy it gives out more LP than same agents belonging to other corps.

So, in closing, let me rephrase it... SHOULD there be ONLY THREE agents for an entire EMPIRE that deserve to be "run" ?
And actually, there's only ONE agent, namely #3 on the list.
All other agents that might pay more LP are based into lowsec, and mission running there is downright suicide most of the time... and even if it wasn't, it's still a problem with the other facts.

Jokesta
Gallente
Group 2
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.28 06:46:00 - [5]
 

Generally speaking i wasnt aware that command agents gave out more Lps. Unless its due to skills modifying the lp's they jus thave a higher % chance of giving kill missions than other agents.

But to ultimately answer your question not all factions have command agents, and different types of agents give different rewards.

When i was a starting player i did missions for an Administrator of the scope and was a nice mixture of skill and courier missions I got both Xp rewards and alot of skill books wich i either put to personal use or put up large bulk sales of up undercuting the npc sellers of them by 5 or 10%.

I do Intel missions now because i like to think of my character as a spy sort of and its only slightly less kill missions than a command agent.

iudex
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:04:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
another possible thing - you might have trained the connections for command but not for that other agent, you know each division is only affected by two connection skills.

I always re-calc the base LP without the skills. 5% extra compared to base per level of relevant skill.
I get 30% extra compared to base for Command agents, 15% extra for Sec and IntSec.
As for system security level influence, I know it matters quite a bit, but not so much as the difference between divisions.
I'm going to use the "values" from the high-tier missions, because they're the most relevant ones.

1. Motsu Ititeimo, L3 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 42, Oimmo(0.5) -> 2.5k LP (1.9k w/o connections, 1.35k baseQ0?)
2. Umoda Hentogaira, L3 Internal Security @Ishukone, EQ 24, Korama(0.8) -> 0.85k LP (0.74k w/o connections, 0.6k baseQ0?)
3. Kikosuda Partoh, L4 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 31, Aramachi(0.5) -> 6.7k LP (5.15k w/o connections, 3.9k baseQ0?)
4. Pavisailen Aokinisen, L4 Security @Caldari Navy, EQ 21, Saila(0.9) -> 3.5k LP (3.04k w/o connections, 2.5k baseQ0?)
5. Toras Egassuo, L4 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 34, Motsu(0.9) -> 5.1k LP (3.9k w/o connections, 2.9k baseQ0?)

Well, you can figure out what's wrong already.
Not only does division Command give out more LP as other divisions, but it seems that if agent belongs to Caldari Navy it gives out more LP than same agents belonging to other corps.

So, in closing, let me rephrase it... SHOULD there be ONLY THREE agents for an entire EMPIRE that deserve to be "run" ?
And actually, there's only ONE agent, namely #3 on the list.
All other agents that might pay more LP are based into lowsec, and mission running there is downright suicide most of the time... and even if it wasn't, it's still a problem with the other facts.


Sorry but unless they changed something recently you must have mistaken something. There is no diffrence if they are security or command or something else, you get the same number of lp if the agent has the same quality and the security lvl of the system is the same. The security lvl does have a big impact, don't remember the exact numbers, did my test half a year ago, but from what i remember an equal agent in a 0.8 system gave me around only half the lp as one in 0.5. Check again what connection skills you trained, maybe this explains the diffrent numbers you see. For example, if only command agents are good, but others not, how comes i get ~8.3k lp for the difficult missions with a lvl 4 surveillance agent in 0.5 (2 lp skills are 4 and 5) ? And almost 13k lp for another surveillance agent (lvl 4 q20) in 0.0 ? And neither of them is from Caldari Navy.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:13:00 - [7]
 

Look at the post above. ALL those LP values are for the SAME "highest tier" of missions, all giving the same LP at one specific agent. You know which ones I speak of... the "extravaganzas" and so on.

I listed raw LP values, listed the secrating of the system, adjusted for skills increasing LP gains and even for the effective quality of the agent.
All that's left is corp, division and secrating.
You have two agents of same corp and same system secrating, the command one gives out roughly 16% more as the security one.
Also, you have a comparison of same agent type (Command, both CN) vs system secrating, 0.5 one gives almost 34% more as 0.9 one.
One the other hand, a 0.5 secrating Command agent for CNavy gives out roughly 125% extra compared to a 0.8 secrating Intsec non-CN agent... compared to the 34% extra vs agent in even higher sec, you can agree CN Command agents ARE the best you can get LP-wise.

And it's not a small difference in division/corp, it's pretty large as you can see.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:25:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Iudex
Originally by: Akita T
3. Kikosuda Partoh, L4 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 31, Aramachi(0.5) -> 6.7k LP (5.15k w/o connections, 3.9k baseQ0?)

how comes i get ~8.3k lp for the difficult missions with a lvl 4 surveillance agent in 0.5 (2 lp skills are 4 and 5) ?
And almost 13k lp for another surveillance agent (lvl 4 q20) in 0.0 ? And neither of them is from Caldari Navy.

What agent (name/corp), what effective quality ?
8.3k LP / 1.45 = 5.7k w/o connections.
If your EQ with that agent is close to 45 (base Q16, nego L4, personal standing above 9 for instance), you get to the same 3.9k "baseQ0" I am getting.
It's possible that it's not so simple as division/corp multipliers, but instead each division having a different multiplier depending on corp, I don't know.

As for the 13k LP in 0.0, I suppose that's just normal anyway.

iudex
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:33:00 - [9]
 

You are confusing me Smile That numbers and diffrences in devisions and corporations you tell, are completely diffrent from what i learned abot missions - don't understand how you get them Confused
According to what i learned (and i tried to learn everything about missions as i didn't do much else in eve in the last 8 months) this just cant be ConfusedQuestionConfused

iudex
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:39:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Iudex
Originally by: Akita T
3. Kikosuda Partoh, L4 Command @Caldari Navy, EQ 31, Aramachi(0.5) -> 6.7k LP (5.15k w/o connections, 3.9k baseQ0?)

how comes i get ~8.3k lp for the difficult missions with a lvl 4 surveillance agent in 0.5 (2 lp skills are 4 and 5) ?
And almost 13k lp for another surveillance agent (lvl 4 q20) in 0.0 ? And neither of them is from Caldari Navy.

What agent (name/corp), what effective quality ?
8.3k LP / 1.45 = 5.7k w/o connections.
If your EQ with that agent is close to 45 (base Q16, nego L4, personal standing above 9 for instance), you get to the same 3.9k "baseQ0" I am getting.
It's possible that it's not so simple as division/corp multipliers, but instead each division having a different multiplier depending on corp, I don't know.

As for the 13k LP in 0.0, I suppose that's just normal anyway.


For your research:
Name: Eratsaka Ogyonin, Lvl 4 q 20, Division: Surveillance, Located in Irjunen (0.5).
Effective Quality: 47 (this has to do with some of the social skills and a standing of 10 towards him).

So if you find me an agent from Caldari Navy who lives in 0.5 or above and give more than ~8.3k lp for the hard missions, i give you a really big prize, promised Very Happy

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:48:00 - [11]
 

Ok, the formula for LP gain looks like this:

LP_reward = Base_LP_for_mission * [1 + 0.05*(Connection1Level+Connection2Level)] * [1 + (EQ/100)] * SystemSecModifier * AgentTypeModifier


Base_LP_for_mission is a global base value, auto-adjusted by the system periodically depending on time needed to complete mission on average for all players.


ConnectionLevel are the levels of your relevant "connection" skills. For you, it's 4 and 5, so a 1.45 multiplier total.


EQ is the effective quality of your agent.
EQ = base quality + PersonalAgentStanding (rounded down) + 5*NegotiationsLevel


SystemSecModifier is a multiplier for security rating.
How it looks exactly, no idea, but is lowest for 1.0 and highest for 0.0, of course.


AgentTypeModifier, now here's the catch.
It appears that DEPENDING on mission type, division and corporation TYPE, this is a different value.

So, for instance, any "kill" agents in research corps giving you one of those oddball 5% chance courier missions have one of the lowest values, a bit better for kill missions for kill agents in researc corps, and highest for kill agents giving kill missions in combat corps is highest.

On the other hand, for instance, you might have a very high value for this multiplier if you run courier missions for storage angents in logistics corps, for instance.
So it depends not only on division and corp, but on a combination between mission type given, division of agent, and corp "type" the agent is in.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 07:58:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Iudex
So if you find me an agent from Caldari Navy who lives in 0.5 or above and give more than ~8.3k lp for the hard missions, i give you a really big prize, promised Very Happy

Kikosuda Partoh (Q13)
On the other hand, the Q18 agent in Motsu (a 0.9 system) can get up to an EQ of 53, but it will only give you 6.6k LP max per mission.

Get L5 in both Military and Political connections, Nego L5, work up to 10 standing with this agent too, and you'll be getting an EQ of 48 with him, and you'll be getting a bit over 8.6k LP per high-tier mission.
P.S. Agent is now located in Amarachi, a 0.5 system surrounded by ONLY highsec systems, not Hageken as listed in the old CCP database. You never ever have to go lowsec for missions. The lag however, is kind of nasty, being 2 jumps away from Motsu, where all silly people run their missions at the higher quality agent for less LP.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2006.12.28 10:19:00 - [13]
 

standings also affect amount of lp given.
in fact, connections skills only increase effective standings which increases amount of lp given.
so if you work alot for the same agent/coprp, you'll have more lp with them.

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.28 11:03:00 - [14]
 

Shouldn't this thread be in Missions forum, instead of General?

I mean fair enough the poster has (aparently) a reasonable point but unless you spend the next two hours studying up the statistical math of missioning you hopes of posting something constructive that doesn't get shot down insanely quickly begin to get very slim.

In defence of all of those who have stood up to the OP I'll also add in that while I can't be bothered to make up some crazy mathimatical proof for what I'm about to say, I can say that the kill missions from my command agents with my next to non existant social skills give out the exact same amount of LP as the kill missions from my security agent in the very same system. I'll also be quick to point out that the command agents last time I checked have a 50/50 chance of chosing a kill or courrier mission, while the security agents have a 99% chance of a kill mission.

iudex
Posted - 2006.12.28 11:25:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Iudex
So if you find me an agent from Caldari Navy who lives in 0.5 or above and give more than ~8.3k lp for the hard missions, i give you a really big prize, promised Very Happy

Kikosuda Partoh (Q13)
On the other hand, the Q18 agent in Motsu (a 0.9 system) can get up to an EQ of 53, but it will only give you 6.6k LP max per mission.
Get L5 in both Military and Political connections, Nego L5, work up to 10 standing with this agent too, and you'll be getting an EQ of 48 with him, and you'll be getting a bit over 8.6k LP per high-tier mission.
P.S. Agent is now located in Amarachi, a 0.5 system surrounded by ONLY highsec systems, not Hageken as listed in the old CCP database. You never ever have to go lowsec for missions. The lag however, is kind of nasty, being 2 jumps away from Motsu, where all silly people run their missions at the higher quality agent for less LP.


Hehe ok i'll test it in the next time, just because you insist that command and caldari navy agents are better Smile.

My skills will remain at negotiation 4 (not sure but nego only improves the isk-reward, not lp as far as i know, but can be wrong here) and the both command-lp skills 5 and 4 - and if the agent really gives me more lp then Eratsaka (which i seriously doubt Wink) then you will be rewarded.

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.28 11:41:00 - [16]
 

What's the point of combat ships when you're a manufacturer or miner?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 11:54:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Iudex
My skills will remain at negotiation 4 (not sure but nego only improves the isk-reward, not lp as far as i know, but can be wrong here) and the both command-lp skills 5 and 4 - and if the agent really gives me more lp then Eratsaka (which i seriously doubt Wink) then you will be rewarded.

That skill setup should start you at around 7.5k LP or so when you do the first few missions and top off at around 8.3k LP when you reach maxed personal standing with the agent.
Skilling up after that to nego5 and last level of the relevant connection should push you to 8.6k LP.

iudex
Posted - 2006.12.30 02:59:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Iudex
My skills will remain at negotiation 4 (not sure but nego only improves the isk-reward, not lp as far as i know, but can be wrong here) and the both command-lp skills 5 and 4 - and if the agent really gives me more lp then Eratsaka (which i seriously doubt Wink) then you will be rewarded.

That skill setup should start you at around 7.5k LP or so when you do the first few missions and top off at around 8.3k LP when you reach maxed personal standing with the agent.
Skilling up after that to nego5 and last level of the relevant connection should push you to 8.6k LP.


Hello again, i tested your agent now and this is what i found:

She gave me Slave Traders at the beginning. When i did 2/2 she had an effective quality of 34 and gave me 7365 lp for it.
The mission after was Angel extravaganza, by then the effective quality was 35 and she still offered 7365 lp.

So this shows 2 things: effective quality does not have any impact on lps (so training negotiation to 5 won't help the lp) but only the isk reward.
She is like all the other agents from the other corps, no Caldari Navy bonus, no Command bonus.
With my current agent (lvl 4 q 18, same system security lvl) i'd received exactly 8255 lp for both missions, so that lvl 4q13 cn command agent is just in line with its 7365. Case closed, i'm on way back to my old system, sorry, no prize for this agent Neutral


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only