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subvert
Posted - 2006.12.26 03:32:00 - [1]
 

is this possible for me to probe out a cloaked ship?

Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.12.26 03:34:00 - [2]
 

it was meant to be coming in that you could at least narrow down a cloaked ships location but that did not come in with revelations, or if it did does not work.

subvert
Posted - 2006.12.26 03:49:00 - [3]
 

good, cloaked ships should be able to stay hidden Very Happy

Arditi
Posted - 2006.12.26 04:04:00 - [4]
 

I hope they add cloacked ships just so your ***** ass gets blown up.

Nimitz Alexander
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2006.12.26 05:45:00 - [5]
 

no cloaked ships should not be impossible to find. slow, hard to yeah sure impossible no.... we have had a hostile mostly afk force recon logged in as a scout in a system for FOUR days now.... there is no ingame counter to that. that is absurd

Aramova
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.12.26 06:01:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Nimitz Alexander
no cloaked ships should not be impossible to find. slow, hard to yeah sure impossible no.... we have had a hostile mostly afk force recon logged in as a scout in a system for FOUR days now.... there is no ingame counter to that. that is absurd


It should be possible, I agree. However the probes should be rather high-skilled, not the new everyone-can-use-these-point-and-click probes.

Ideally, I'd like to see the probes show up on overview, since they'd have to be active emitters to penetrate a cloaking devices' field.

Alas, sense it never made with such things Confused

Miss Overlord
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.12.26 06:05:00 - [7]
 

CCP couldnt make it bug free probably coming in kali 2

Lubricity
Tax Free Corporation
Posted - 2006.12.26 08:18:00 - [8]
 

Ships using the covops cloak should be impossible to detect... their cloak is already perfect in every other way, why shouldn't it be so this way too? Make the lesser cloaks able to be scanned out but reduce the user's sig strength or whatever it is that determines ease of probing them out. The better the cloak, the better the reduction?

Dr Ming
Mindworks
Posted - 2006.12.26 09:24:00 - [9]
 

This is what I'd like:

A ) You can find cloaked ships, but it is hard and basically impossible unless you know to be looking for one.

B ) You don't show up in local unless you say something.

JForce
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.12.26 11:09:00 - [10]
 

You should be able to probe out normal ships using cloaks, however it should be very hard to do, and take a lot of skills.

You should NOT be able to locate a Covert-Ops or a Force Recon running the best cloak. Otherwise it defeat the purpose of using them.

Kahor
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.12.26 12:12:00 - [11]
 

Recons and cloak are the IWIN button of eve.

Probing cloaked ship should be possible, and there is a need for a mod to 'uncloak' ships as well, to maintain the balance of the game.

Press Officer
Leaked Memo's
Posted - 2006.12.26 13:03:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
Probing cloaked ship should be possible, and there is a need for a mod to 'uncloak' ships as well, to maintain the balance of the game


"I win, uncloak all button 4tw" kinda defects the object of "covert ops"

I see christmas doesn't even add common sense to peoples arguments ..

Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:52:00 - [13]
 

could all the n00bz plz just shutup?

the idea behind not beeing able to probe cloaked ships is a logical idea, but then there is something called balance.

It would be logicall for the engineers in eve to introduce a super-ore-sucker which harvests whole belts in minutes but it is not balanced.

it would also be logicall to invent impenetratable void shields using a strongened effect similar to a (micro) warpdrive but it is not balanced.


AFKing in 100% savety cause you are cloaked is totally logical but also NOT BALANCED. at least not as long as there is a 100% secure way for a controlling alliance to lockdown their gates.

gimme a iris or force field for gates like they have in the stargate TV series which kills incoming enemy/neutral/not allowed ships and you can keep your afk cloak. whoever lets the bugs into their house has to clear them himself.



what I would suggest is a new tech 2 destroyer / t2 bs / capital / whatever which's purpose is to use "anti cloaking fluctuation emitter" modules. these things would burn some sort of fuel (ice-isotopes / stront - balance) and deactivate ALL cloaking devices in the WHOLE SYSTHEM. at same time the ship will be locked in space like a cyano/siege mode and show up as a warpable object in overview.

this should not affect gate-cloak.

Jokesta
Gallente
Group 2
Veni Vidi Vici Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:51:00 - [14]
 

generaly speaking i dont think cloaked ships should be probable. But if they made it so it took a bit and that active searching (say 30 minutes an hour?) could probly narrow it down to try and find it i thinkt hat would be fine.

Really any actively played cov ops ship wont be detected y the above but i rather agree that somone apparently going afk cloaked for 4 days or so is a bit much.

EPSILON DELTA
Posted - 2006.12.26 21:08:00 - [15]
 

Add special probe that show up on systemwide overview
you need to deploy multiple probes for scan to start, the probes will run out of power after 1 scan.
scan will take 30min
you could then warp right ontop of him.

This allows you to probe out afk cloaked scout
this will not allow you to probe out active scout since they would be warping around after they see the probes deployed
the expiration timer on the probe prevents 24/7 probing.

Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2006.12.26 21:14:00 - [16]
 

How about a new POS structure. It burns a ****-ton of some fuel, and disables all cloaking in system for a set amount of time, say 20 minutes or so. You can only activate if you have sovereignty in that system.

Goodtime Girl
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.26 22:51:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Goodtime Girl on 26/12/2006 22:53:29
Quote:
could all the n00bz plz just shutup?

the idea behind not beeing able to probe cloaked ships is a logical idea, but then there is something called balance.

It would be logicall for the engineers in eve to introduce a super-ore-sucker which harvests whole belts in minutes but it is not balanced.

it would also be logicall to invent impenetratable void shields using a strongened effect similar to a (micro) warpdrive but it is not balanced.


AFKing in 100% savety cause you are cloaked is totally logical but also NOT BALANCED. at least not as long as there is a 100% secure way for a controlling alliance to lockdown their gates.

gimme a iris or force field for gates like they have in the stargate TV series which kills incoming enemy/neutral/not allowed ships and you can keep your afk cloak. whoever lets the bugs into their house has to clear them himself.



what I would suggest is a new tech 2 destroyer / t2 bs / capital / whatever which's purpose is to use "anti cloaking fluctuation emitter" modules. these things would burn some sort of fuel (ice-isotopes / stront - balance) and deactivate ALL cloaking devices in the WHOLE SYSTHEM. at same time the ship will be locked in space like a cyano/siege mode and show up as a warpable object in overview.

this should not affect gate-cloak.



Complete rubbish .....

Another ... "put some fuel in" and eveything is easy button ...

If you want the game to be balanced as you try to point out then the only option is for the cloakers to fit cloaks and nothing else ....

All these "can see everthing" modules are laughable ...

Whats the point in having a Covert ship in game when a) it can't cloak in an entire system as you suggest

b)It can get probed in 40+ secs ...

Doppler Shift
Posted - 2006.12.27 06:53:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Doppler Shift on 27/12/2006 06:55:04
A recon cloaking device is an extremely powerful tool. Hence, it is logical that it would require "use". Turn it on at a safespot and be invincible is not my idea of it.Rolling Eyes

An active, mediocre-skilled covop/recon pilot would be completely impossible to find even if he could be probed down.
Hence, it is only logical he should be probeable so that a complete idiot in an expensive ship he doesn't know how to fly can lose it. YARRRR!!

Ninja tactics are about hiding and evasion, not about leaving your ship active while in a hostile system and going for coffee. An inactive covops pilot should be dead in 2 minutes on grounds of incompetence and inability to fullfill a stealth, behind-enemy-lines behaviour. Neutral

Vrizuh
VTECHS
Posted - 2006.12.27 07:16:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Doppler Shift
Edited by: Doppler Shift on 27/12/2006 06:55:04
A recon cloaking device is an extremely powerful tool. Hence, it is logical that it would require "use". Turn it on at a safespot and be invincible is not my idea of it.Rolling Eyes

An active, mediocre-skilled covop/recon pilot would be completely impossible to find even if he could be probed down.
Hence, it is only logical he should be probeable so that a complete idiot in an expensive ship he doesn't know how to fly can lose it. YARRRR!!

Ninja tactics are about hiding and evasion, not about leaving your ship active while in a hostile system and going for coffee. An inactive covops pilot should be dead in 2 minutes on grounds of incompetence and inability to fullfill a stealth, behind-enemy-lines behaviour. Neutral



Invisible, not invincible. Cloaked ships already suffer penalties that make most of em not de-cloak. I agree that there has to be a method to stop the afkers, cos they cause havoc for mining ops which is disproportional.

More than that however would be foolish to pursue. If you nerf cloaks any more, they're gonna get buffed. If they cant hide, they're going to need to be able to fight. What is worse, a cloaked ship that rarely comes out or succesfully takes out a non-afk ship, or a cloaked ship that regularly comes out and holds its own?

Doppler Shift
Posted - 2006.12.27 18:55:00 - [20]
 

Well... Covops were never meant to be fighters (most are pretty much made from compressed paper instead of tritanium... at some the paper is not even compressed Laughing). Recons can hold their own for a bit, which in my book is all they should need. Some are pretty powerful, also.

No nerf. I am in no way asking for a nerf- in my book the balance is perfect.

I strongly suggest though that making them probeable would not make them vulnerable at all - it would just mean that the pilot must stay on his toes behind enemy lines. Cloak-warping hither and yonder is pretty much invincibility, no? Apart from the fact that the enemy cannot actually KNOW if you have warped to the next ss or you are 2.501 m away...

So my vote goes for being able to probe them as was intended, which is not a nerf at all by my reasoning. More nerfs (like worsening scan recalibration et.c.) would only make them *less* likely to fight without really accomplishing anything positive for anyone. In fact, I think a little lessening of the penalties for the covop cloaks only, would be for the better. But I have not really thought it through, and do not consider it important anyway...

Miss Overlord
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.12.27 19:34:00 - [21]
 

we must be able to probe them down ( yes perhaps uncloaking them afte 30 minutes of inactivity) pilots can still sit in a enemy system and lock it down while afk cloaked for hours on end

A very small chance of finding them having high skills needed yeah.

Basically making it taht a cloaked pilot must be active ( CCP are anti afk anti macro) so lets extend it out to cloaked ships also - anothe reason why a lot of players remain in empire instead of 0.0 and low sec pirate comes along cloaks and keeps scannning until a player of interest comes up warps in his main and warps straight to belt - a lot of being killed and said player heads back to empire ( so CCP considered being remote x% chance of being able to scan down a lame bored afk cloaked ship and blowing em up if they are to stupid to move around) is a anti lag measure and should be youre first prirotiy

Digitalfox
Central Defiance
Insurgency
Posted - 2006.12.27 20:06:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Digitalfox on 27/12/2006 20:07:57
As a buzzard pilot I am agains the idea that you could scan me down. However as one who has spent time hunting the macro ratters in 0.0 systems, you know the ones that ss and cloak a battleship as soon as you come into system, I would like to see the abiltity to scan down cloaked ships.

The way I see it, a covert ops frigate should have next to no chance to be scaned down, make it possible but highly unlikely and only by a pilot with maxed out scanning skills. The cruisers could be scanned a bit easier but still only by very higly skilled pilots, since they at least have moderate ship defensis, you could include stealth bomber in this catagory too. And in reality lets face is, any pilot worth his weight in anything is going to be next to impossible to scan down.

My final though is this, scanning in revalations is a joke. Anybody can do it, it take no real skill and as the scanning system stands I dont think that any ship of a covert ops kind should be scannable. Give me back the old scan system please, the one where only a handfull of people knew how to do it and how to do it well. My scanning skill was a point of pride, even boasting quite a list of ships stolen from safespots, and now with this new scanning system everybody and there brother can scan with easy.


EDIT: And to the person who wanted a ship decloaking item for their ship. There is a COSMOS item that does this, its a smart bomb with a 25k radius that decloaks ships but does no damage, if I recall it correctly

Borasao
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2006.12.27 21:56:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kahor
Recons and cloak are the IWIN button of eve.

Probing cloaked ship should be possible, and there is a need for a mod to 'uncloak' ships as well, to maintain the balance of the game.


There is one... it's called "Doomsday". Twisted Evil

subvert
Posted - 2006.12.27 22:38:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: subvert on 27/12/2006 22:40:29
mmm, I dont think a nerf bat would be good. I use covert ops frigates not recons and they aren't wtfpwn. A heavy nerf bat would hit them hard too!

Also you have to remember that a covert ops cloaking device costs over 100 million ISK (thats like 15 times as much as the fully fitted covert ops frigate ships themselves cost). If its easy to probe out and kill a covert ops frig then nobody will fly them outside of empire anymore. A t1 frigate can pop a cov ops frig in only a couple volleys.

and stealth bombers. They are hardly ever used and very weak. Ok well I dont fly these since I avoid direct combat, but from I know of them a nerf bat would be very very bad and I know for a fact I hardly ever see them in space!

ShockedShocked

Mira deVorsha
Caldari
Boards.ie
Posted - 2006.12.29 14:28:00 - [25]
 

being able to narrow their location down to 100-200km would be acceptable but not actually finding the exact location of them.

From what I have read on other forums you can sometimes guess the location or at least a cloaked ship in the system if they are also using probes. I forget which tutorial but suggested that cloak ships destroy probes sent out as they can be used to find them.

Allen Deckard
Gallente
Roadking Hawg's
Posted - 2006.12.29 15:13:00 - [26]
 

why not just have cloaking devices use more cap than the ship using the cloak can produce.

Prevents anyone from going afk.
Still gives the cloaker x amount of time depending on setup but even with best cap upgrades shouldn't be able to sustain cloak perm.

Just an idea. Not saying you should only have 20 seconds or something but some non finit amount of time.

Bastogne
Caldari
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.12.29 15:19:00 - [27]
 

How about just a default time limit on non-covops cloaks? Could explain it as a defficiency in the prototypes due to interference from solar activity or some such, but keep them the same as they are now but give them a 5 minute timer before auto-uncloak for the prototype and a 7 minute time for the advance prototype cloak. Make it one minute before being able to cloak again.

Nyrram
Minmatar
Quam Singulari
Lotka Volterra
Posted - 2006.12.29 21:50:00 - [28]
 

The true solution is fairly simple...

Just make cloaking devices use charges/fuel in a similar manner to siege mode, cap injectors, etc.

Fuel use should not be prohibitively expensive, and should be small enough to allow a sufficient supply to be carried (several hours of cloak at least), but not be infinate.. that is, you can't carry enough fuel to remain cloaked for days straight.

Problem fixed.. if someone wants to remain in a system indefinately, they log off. Or risk burning up all their cloak fuel just to remain there afk hidden.

So basically, use the cloak to enter system safely, make safespot bookmarks, uncloak and scout the system like a professional. When you need to check the status of the gate for your approaching friendlies, cloak and warp to your gate scout mark.


Coran Ordus
Dominion Arms Supply
Posted - 2006.12.29 22:11:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: EPSILON DELTA
Add special probe that show up on systemwide overview
you need to deploy multiple probes for scan to start, the probes will run out of power after 1 scan.
scan will take 30min
you could then warp right ontop of him.

This allows you to probe out afk cloaked scout
this will not allow you to probe out active scout since they would be warping around after they see the probes deployed
the expiration timer on the probe prevents 24/7 probing.


This makes the most sense, maybe with some number tweaks. Basically a scan that is slow and obvious, but very precise even for cloaked ships.

Spells doom for AFK cloaked ships, which is a rather lame and tedious tactic.

Doesn't affect anyone actually active in a cloaked ship. If you want to disrupt a mining op by sitting there for hours warping around, fair enough. No getting it for free though by logging in and going for a walk.


Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.12.30 06:27:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 30/12/2006 06:27:27
Originally by: Press Officer
Quote:
Probing cloaked ship should be possible, and there is a need for a mod to 'uncloak' ships as well, to maintain the balance of the game


"I win, uncloak all button 4tw" kinda defects the object of "covert ops"

I see christmas doesn't even add common sense to peoples arguments ..


Uh, yeah, the whole point of such systems are to counter stealth abilities so that an enemy can't just do whatever they feel like.Wink

Everything should have a counter, yes, even cloaks.

I know some people out there love being able to cloak at a random SS in enemy territory and sit there all day, untouchable, but life's a *****.

In one of the first dev blogs about the new scanner setup, being able to find cloaked ships was mentioned. It's not in yet, but it will be.


edit: And just why exactly should an item that takes almost no time to train for, be so damn powerful?Rolling Eyes


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