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Xtro 2
Caldari
El Bastardos
EVESpace
Posted - 2006.12.25 02:10:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Christopher Dalran
All it requires is a change of tactics, gone are the days of simply camping out at a gate and just webbing/shoot anyone that rolls by without any effort on your part. Fortunatly it now takes a little bit of work to actually catch people, to the point where its best to simply IGNORE targets that will not give any rewards (for example that 2 month old character in a Thorax is nolonger worth the effort to even think about).

It is now best to catch people on the exit side of a jump as opposed to the entrance side, what you need to do is place a scout in the systems leading to low sec systems and have them find targets and inform their gang members of when and where they are jumping. It would be a better idea to have someone that can warp cloaked as to not alert the target they are being watched.

The scout will inform you exactly what is jumping in and when it is jumping, it is then the job of anyone on the other side to web and scramble these people BEFORE they can warp away from the jump in point. Nobody jumps in at exactly the same spot however there is a set area where people exit within. You need enough people to cover this area and be able to jam anyone that warps in without having to move much. As a result faster more agile ships need to be used as opposed to simply all Battleships.

This now means that ganking will basically disappear as smaller more agile ships will be able to jump away before the ships bloccading the jump in point can catch and lock them down (some frigates with extremely high agility can warp away before they complety decloak).

It also means that low sec pirating with become more like pirating and not just unfocused pvp. DO you think pirates are going to waste their time and risk reprisal killing a Thorax with no cargo? NO!, they should be catching Industrial ships or larger ships that might be transporting something worthwhile.

You make alot more money while being able to actually keep a positive sec rating if you scout out and specifically target ships transporting alot of high value materials (oh yeah, you can make alot pirating and still keep a positive sec rating if you dont blow up frigates and just pod everyone for the sheer thrill of it, thats a murderer not a pirate). Believe it or not you actually get quite a few people in Freighters flying through low sec all by their lonesome selves and they take such a long time to warp away after exiting a jump that any competent group can catch them upon exit with minimal ships.


blah blah blah yeah we know how to scout and find people, we arent stupid, we have been playing for a little while you know, we do scout, we do even catch the odd loony. The problem is not everyone is stupid enough to NOT check local, great they dont bail when they see johnny random scout in local, great you ID their belt, your pirate char jumps in, then <insert great plan here> fails because they see the pirate and bail instantly, your scout infos bang on, or was 10 seconds ago just before they left the belt and docked..

But wait? whats that, you saw him just briefly as you appeared and he warped to Planet X, Moon 1, Station B, great lets follow. No wait hang on, hes warped to 0, hes docked, ah well that was fun.

As for making cash and geting industrials, yer wed do that anyways, but were pirates, we dont just get the money ships, your after terror, plain and simple, everything must die that is able to die (or ransomed), if we wanted some poxy haulers dead wed have empire wars nailing stupid alliance people in jita.

Positive sec rating and low sec pirate should not be used in the same sentance tbh.

Xtro 2
Caldari
El Bastardos
EVESpace
Posted - 2006.12.25 02:19:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Xtro 2 on 25/12/2006 02:22:29
ill end this with my comments regarding peoples infinate wisdom, as with abs im bored with this flamefest.

If you check abs and myself we are not exactly new, anything mentioned here weve done, were slightly beyond the normal 2 monther moaning minnie wanting the game changed to suit them.

0.0 kills? yer we used to spend ages in derelik/providence ages ago nailing anything on gates. Yes blowing up gate ins and outs, following for many jumps etc, we DO know all this, kindly dont rant on like were 1 month old noobs who dont know the obvious.

Lowsec pirating? yer done that longer, again were not JUST lazy snipers, sniping was a break away hen the targets were thin, it wasnt great but hey it WAS something at the very least. Ganks, wars, ransoming, sniper kills, weve done the lot.

Mining? omg yes weve even done that old gem when we first started, to each their own i say.

Blob wars? oh yes been there as well, we used to play with the old xetic people and those nice DDC people and asociates, met plenty of fellow unscrupulous pirate corps, anti-pies that made us run like mad, weve been the old thorn in their sides of a fair few peoples etc, and it's been pretty good fun both ways/both sides.

When people see posts about pirates having the doggydoo end of the stick, please dont assume were their lazy mofos that havent done anything but eh easy way, and then jump on them in the forums, because i can assure you some have tried everything eve offers and do know of what they speak, lots have success, well great, the grass isnt always as greener for some.

Just because some arent "ingame famous" doesnt mean their opinions are worthless.

Gix Firebrand
Caldari
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
Posted - 2006.12.25 08:23:00 - [33]
 

BTW, before you throw out noob corp comments, this is my main :D 10+ years of MMPORG experince, including UO.

So I say this with feeling, cry more noob.

Its adapt, mine or quit. I solo pirate. You want to cry to me about hard? Try solo piracy in a noob corp :P Everyone wants to kill you.

Really its a choice. Eithier you learn a new way or you vote with your wallet.

FooB2
Caldari
KR0M
Posted - 2006.12.25 09:55:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Gix Firebrand
BTW, before you throw out noob corp comments, this is my main :D 10+ years of MMPORG experince, including UO.

So I say this with feeling, cry more noob.

Its adapt, mine or quit. I solo pirate. You want to cry to me about hard? Try solo piracy in a noob corp :P Everyone wants to kill you.

Really its a choice. Eithier you learn a new way or you vote with your wallet.



let me get this straight, you're actually saying that its harder to pirate in a noob corp? because then "everyone wants to kill you"? Were outlaws sherlock, and everyone wants to kill us anyway. the only difference there is that were not hiding from wardecs.

but hey, im sure you're the most awesomest PVPer in the world, let alone EVE right? i mean. you've played UO. thats GOT to be worth something when playing EVE.

Keta Min
El Bastardos
Freedom of Elbas
Posted - 2006.12.25 14:44:00 - [35]
 

the whole point is, WTZ made it all more boring. there have been good suggestions for instas, like Digi's lowslot warp precision mods but CCP desided to take the easy way out. it removed engagement possibilities, made travel easier, removed the need to sacrifice cargo or combat power for travel setups or faster ships.

you can stop giving nublet "advices" on tactics. there are no new tactics. some just stopped working, others remained. i see talk about lowsec dictor bubbles coming in kali2 but i'm sceptical about that. we'll see.

Celestal
Posted - 2006.12.25 14:59:00 - [36]
 

interdicters in low sec ? now why would that ever happen ?.

With the recent changes it was made safer for the visitor to low sec , and lag issues were addresses . Contrary to a lot of the posters in this channel the idea of making it safer and attracting more low sec visitors was not simply to feed more easy kills to low sec "pirates" ( face it, altho these are a very vocal , sic , part of the community it is one of the smallest sectors of eve community ).

Now why would dicters be introduced ? . A properly bubbled gate would give a 90+ kill rate to ships jumping in ( and not using logoffski ). This would kill low sec travel dead in a couple of days and why would ccp who have been making it safer to try low sec suddenly reverse the trend and make low sec far more dangerous then it has ever been ? .

Interdicters/bubbles in low sec are the dream that low sec "pirates" have that makes them wake up with a damp patch , but that is all it ever will be .

Keta Min
El Bastardos
Freedom of Elbas
Posted - 2006.12.25 15:09:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Celestal
ccp who have been making it safer to try low sec

exactly.

Exogene
Posted - 2006.12.25 15:22:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Keta Min
the whole point is, WTZ made it all more boring. there have been good suggestions for instas, like Digi's lowslot warp precision mods but CCP desided to take the easy way out. it removed engagement possibilities, made travel easier, removed the need to sacrifice cargo or combat power for travel setups or faster ships.

you can stop giving nublet "advices" on tactics. there are no new tactics. some just stopped working, others remained. i see talk about lowsec dictor bubbles coming in kali2 but i'm sceptical about that. we'll see.


You relied on noobs with no instas before warp to 0.

I ask you again, how is relying on "noobs with no instas" as targets a tactic?

Please enlighten me oh wise ones for that surely is not a tactic. Rolling Eyes

WTZ was introduced mainly to combat the server strain caused by millions of bookmarks. Besides that it just made low sec travel for noobs with no bookmarks safer nothing more nothing less. So basically you are whining because you cannot kill noobs, sad really. ugh

Keta Min
El Bastardos
Freedom of Elbas
Posted - 2006.12.25 15:28:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Keta Min on 25/12/2006 15:29:35
Originally by: Exogene
Originally by: Keta Min
the whole point is, WTZ made it all more boring. there have been good suggestions for instas, like Digi's lowslot warp precision mods but CCP desided to take the easy way out. it removed engagement possibilities, made travel easier, removed the need to sacrifice cargo or combat power for travel setups or faster ships.

you can stop giving nublet "advices" on tactics. there are no new tactics. some just stopped working, others remained. i see talk about lowsec dictor bubbles coming in kali2 but i'm sceptical about that. we'll see.


You relied on noobs with no instas before warp to 0.

I ask you again, how is relying on "noobs with no instas" as targets a tactic?

Please enlighten me oh wise ones for that surely is not a tactic. Rolling Eyes

WTZ was introduced mainly to combat the server strain caused by millions of bookmarks. Besides that it just made low sec travel for noobs with no bookmarks safer nothing more nothing less. So basically you are whining because you cannot kill noobs, sad really. ugh


instas didn't work from any point in the system. also i often was the "noob with no instas" because they just werent needed.

Gix Firebrand
Caldari
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
Posted - 2006.12.25 19:22:00 - [40]
 

Actually playing pre UO:R prepares you for EVE quite nicely :D

Best PvPer in the world? Never made that claim. However, I share in the WTZ struggle as well. But you don't see me crying on the forums.

Dictors in low sec will never happen. Cause all you'd see is bubbles at every gate. Thus, no one will enter low sec at all.

All they have to do is make low sec worth the risk, and people will flock. I'm all for moving kernite and omber into low sec. I'm for removing the omber spawn from the lvl 3 mission.

Low sec should be a place of danger yes, but a place worth the danger if you get away alive. Right now, WTZ plus no real benefits gives you low sec's current state.

But again, you have a choice. You can cry and whine, thus making you just like the "carebears" you hate. Or you can man up as a pirate and show your ingenuity and adapt.

Your choice.

Slave 775
Ministry of Punishment
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.25 20:40:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Gix Firebrand

But again, you have a choice. You can cry and whine, thus making you just like the "carebears" you hate. Or you can man up as a pirate and show your ingenuity and adapt.

Your choice.



If you dont come to the Forums and complain about something you dont like. How should CCP know what we want?
Looks like whining on the Forums works for carebears and the usual clueless folk pretty good.

I absolutely hate warp to 0km.


Solo hunting with an interceptor in empire is over for me.
I noticed there is also a increase in shipsize of our wartargets in empire, because who cares how fast you are, if you can warp from gate to gate or station.
You now need a 20km scram on a frig to catch them on the other side of the gate, and thats a problem.
And please don't try to tell me everybody used instas in empire (im not talking about lowsec), thats total bull****.

Dr Slice
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.12.25 22:18:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Dr Slice on 25/12/2006 22:19:35
Wow lot of angst in this thread but thats to be expected. To the Pre-Nerfed Tactics guys, I understand where you're coming from. As for the hate, you have to expect it, you're a Pirate Corp, and all outlaws so just for that the bears and wanna-be pirates will come out of the woodwork to flame you.

To the haters throwing around the words "noob" and "adapt": Do your research on a Corp and their pilots before flaming, otherwise it makes you look incompetent. The Pre-Nerfed guys are a solid bunch of Pirates with tons of kills under their belts.


Exogene
Posted - 2006.12.25 23:34:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Keta Min
Edited by: Keta Min on 25/12/2006 15:29:35
Originally by: Exogene

instas didn't work from any point in the system. also i often was the "noob with no instas" because they just werent needed.


They do if you make one, also an insta dock bm that will work from anywhere in the system if placed properly Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Dr Slice
Edited by: Dr Slice on 25/12/2006 22:19:35
Wow lot of angst in this thread but thats to be expected. To the Pre-Nerfed Tactics guys, I understand where you're coming from. As for the hate, you have to expect it, you're a Pirate Corp, and all outlaws so just for that the bears and wanna-be pirates will come out of the woodwork to flame you.

To the haters throwing around the words "noob" and "adapt": Do your research on a Corp and their pilots before flaming, otherwise it makes you look incompetent. The Pre-Nerfed guys are a solid bunch of Pirates with tons of kills under their belts.




You slap the "hate stamp" on us, easy way out ain't it. I for one am a half-assed pirate myself. I don't care who they are.

Originally by: Slave 775

And please don't try to tell me everybody used instas in empire (im not talking about lowsec), thats total bull****.



Again proving my point of relying on people with no instas as targets and yet i have no answer from any respondents as to how that can be called "a tactic" Neutral sad

Amiable Quinn
Minmatar
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:37:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 26/12/2006 15:52:44
Edited by: Amiable Quinn on 26/12/2006 15:38:54
If you are keen to non-consensual PvP I would recommend you avail yourselves of the numerous options:

1. Head to 0.0. I hear there is, on occasion, some PvP there. If you are clever, keep moving, and use a scout it is relatively easy to avoid gate-camps.

2. Wardec some corps or alliances (ala privateers. Big corp alliance = plenty of war targets.

3. Keep looking for the stray low-sec noob and gank/ransom them. Maintain group op gate camps with a dedicated tank. I believe tiller has some terrific threads describing how this can be done.

Now I understand that all of the above activities smack of:

1. Effort and/or
2. The possibility that you may lose.

So far, all that I have gotten from this post is “boo-hoo ganking noobs is harder.” Anyone with half a brain had instas to stations from anywhere in a system (and instas to gates from those stations), and had them well before warp to 0 was implemented. Those that didn’t are probably the ones who won’t bother warping out today. Nothing has changed except the setup time for ratting/mining in a system going from 10-20 minutes to 0.

BTW: On this "look how long they have been in the game, they must know what they are talking about" attitude…

No.

Time in game does not equate to an understanding of game design. I have been in plenty of games where 3-4 year veterans consistently spout inanities.

Number of kills also do NOT equate to game skill or experience. If that were the case Ginger Magician would be feared as the greatest pirate that ever lived, instead of a joke who spends his times popping 2 day old frigs.

I feel your pain, but if you put even a modicum of effort forward there are plenty of PvP opportunities in this game.

Happy Holidays.

Gesturation
Posted - 2006.12.26 18:08:00 - [45]
 

Gatecamping pirates aren't the only ones who have been hit hard by the patches.

Train astrometrics, find a low-sec system with good agents...

Harass the poor little missionrunners there.

Find a low-sec system with no stations but decent ore and a station one jump off, lock down its gates, you can usually pick people off this way.

Go wardec a huge corp and sit in jita.

etc. Maybe a bit more effort, but sometimes you gotta put forth effort to have fun :-p

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2006.12.26 18:26:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Angelic Resolution
Interdictor bubbles on gates (Lowsec) I believe can still be done. Bubbles on gates in 0.0. As stated in other threads, PvP isn't meant to be solo according to CCP although doesn't PvP stand for Player versus Player? Go to plural I guess =\

Adapt or change your profession, become a baiter ;)


Interdictors have never been able to drop bubbles in lowsec just as you cannot anchor bubbles either.

As for warp to zero being a problem just tank the sentries like alot of the reputable pirates do and warpscramble ships after they decloak from jumping in. It's not that hard and alot of PPL have been doing it for years.
Also with scanning being much more easier and quicker why not ry the lowsec mission runners if you want to pirate. Again I know ppl who are doing it with fantastic results and even those who did it pre-revelations when it was slower.

In summary I think more PPL are using lowsec now than before as they dont worry so much aboput travelling through lowsec without instas. It's a pirates paradise at the moment if you are prepared to work a little bit rather than just sit 200km from the gate with loads of sensor-boosters and stabs in the lowslots.

This patch has sorted the men from the boys! Nice work CCP.


Rman
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:10:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Fto Cruise
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks.
Quote:


I like this idea. Anyone know why something like this has not been done already?

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2006.12.26 19:29:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Rman
Originally by: Fto Cruise
The answer could be to remove the local chat channel, or for a pilot to only appear if he speaks.
Quote:


I like this idea. Anyone know why something like this has not been done already?



Well it seems my good man that without local a solo pirate would never know what he's up against also local provides valuable information such as a random jump in local either means 2 things 1. Ganksquad or 2. hauler escort YARRRR!!

Xtro 2
Caldari
El Bastardos
EVESpace
Posted - 2006.12.26 23:07:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Xtro 2 on 26/12/2006 23:08:10
the Pirate Coalition guys have themselves a nice if risky system for themselves and others, its just got to be a pain to us all relying on 1 method for your ingame career, im probably only irritated because my ingame freedom is being axed every patch, if i adapt now and join the bandwagon (weve done this before in 0.0 as have plenty others), and worse yet rely on it, will it change/get nerfed.

So far the answer seems to be a yes of course it will.

To be fair i wouldnt mind all the choking of that career if all the penaltys you get with the job came with something good for us as a result of our bad status, if -10 meant something more than just a badge of "ive killed people", atm all it does is try to deter you from that career.

Veetor
Gallente
Acme Manufacturing
Posted - 2006.12.29 21:24:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Veetor on 29/12/2006 21:28:36
Get rid of 'show pilots in space' pods killed and ships killed is newsworthy and should stay. make local channel count voluntary. Then you'll find Acme out there with a decent mining op.But you'll need to patrol. We need 4 uneventful ones to afford the 5th catastrophe:) Just like the old days with 8000 concurrent players and 5000 systems. We cant set up for 3 hrs anywhere in low sec or 0.0 anymore.

Anferney
Priory Of The Lemon
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.30 03:44:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Xtro 2
To be fair i wouldnt mind all the choking of that career if all the penaltys you get with the job came with something good for us as a result of our bad status, if -10 meant something more than just a badge of "ive killed people", atm all it does is try to deter you from that career.


Why should it do something other than act as a warning? It makes no sense for it to do anthing other than that. A low sec rating means you kill people. Get a high enough secstatus and people get less antsy and make it easier to get prey in the belts. Sure, that -10 is a mark of honor, but it also makes getting kills that much harder, as it should since you should be a known threat if you have acheived outlaw status.

Gix Firebrand
Caldari
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
Posted - 2006.12.30 04:45:00 - [52]
 

It just forces you to play smarter.

I truly believe in the coming patches, CCP will make low sec worth being in. That will bring targets like never before.

Countessa
Minmatar
LEGI0N
SOUL CARTEL
Posted - 2006.12.30 09:26:00 - [53]
 

.... Ok my 2p worth....

Absolute Evil for President of Eve all the rest of you tarts just dont get it so hush up.

He is not saying there is NO other options he is saying that before WTZ there was a much greater chance of catching people, and that WTZ has drastically reduced what people can do to remove the ever growing inflation of Eve down to a normal level.

People need to lose ships and yes it sux when its you but if there is no Isk sink like the job AE & Co do (and they do it well) then every1 will have 100 bizzillion isk and a civilian shield booster will take you 3 months to save up for.

WTZ is effectivly taking away more then pirates sniping at gates, it also removes any1 from fighting an effective empire war as now you can see war targets in local (yes i know this works for prey and predator) you just hit anything warp too it and either dock or jump through the gate.

Yes people can move to 0.0 thats an option im sure alot are thinking about but not every1 wants to end up fighting 50 man fleets some people still enjoy the small 'wolf' pack tactics of say 2-3 people.

Anyways like i say at the begining AE is not saying there is nothing else to do now but it does limit what is left.


Saint Bubba
Minmatar
Asshats and Alcoholics
Minuit.
Posted - 2006.12.30 15:32:00 - [54]
 

I started pvp 8 days ago and finiding targets is quite easy I find... I fly a rifter solo in low sec and have 6 kills so far, 3 which are crusadres, one a zealot. Dont tell me its that hard since I started a week ago and I find it easy... You started ages ago and your finding it hard? Laughing

Absolute Evil
Amarr
Task Force Zener
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.30 16:21:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Saint Bubba
I started pvp 8 days ago and finiding targets is quite easy I find... I fly a rifter solo in low sec and have 6 kills so far, 3 which are crusadres, one a zealot. Dont tell me its that hard since I started a week ago and I find it easy... You started ages ago and your finding it hard? Laughing


Countessa put it correctly, and tbh I dont even know why im bothering to reply to you, once the target has entered warp its game over.

Yes understood you can have a little party waiting for them on the otherside of the gate(as long as it still low sec) and yes they could have had insta's but not when they're new to your system, there was a chance to hunt them down.

Now its insta's to all, kind of poor game play imo. Many a time I've gone after a target and taken on them and station guns.YARRRR!!

Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar
Universal Peace Corp
Posted - 2006.12.30 16:48:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Saint Bubba
I started pvp 8 days ago and finiding targets is quite easy I find... I fly a rifter solo in low sec and have 6 kills so far, 3 which are crusadres, one a zealot. Dont tell me its that hard since I started a week ago and I find it easy... You started ages ago and your finding it hard? Laughing


just a quick question, what security rating are you, if your 8 kills still has you close to above security status 0 or just under its not as obvious as a -10 old character.

Any of your future targets may not be as easily available once your week old career becomes a few months old or longer and your -10, you stand out a bit more in the local window then.

Risien Drogonne
Shadow Gypsies
R i s e
Posted - 2006.12.30 17:58:00 - [57]
 

You know what's amusing? Over and over and over again pirates tell us how adaptable they are and how good they are at innovation and new tactics, and that it's everyone else who sucks.

And then we see stuff like this.

Gix Firebrand
Caldari
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
Posted - 2006.12.30 18:44:00 - [58]
 

Other pirates have already adapted :D

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.30 19:38:00 - [59]
 

Empire GATECAMPING lowsec pirates got ONE kind of a target MOST of the time : the unprepared and unwilling one.
That is exactly the type of target you should NEVER be able to get MOST of in the first place, because it's NO challenge whatsoever and downright lame.

Now you have equal chances to catch prepared and unprepared targets, willing and unwilling ones.
So you went from a "noobganking ftw" situation to a situation where you have to WORK HARD for your kill.

Please tell me again, how or why should I "feel for you" ?


Move to 0.0 you lazy bunches and pirate THERE, where you HAVE the right tools to do it properly.
Or gring your secrating up and start missioning in highsec... what you were doing before was nothing more than PVE anyway, with the only difference being the destroyed ship was a player's, it almost never put up even the fight a NPC does.

Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2006.12.30 20:07:00 - [60]
 

I think the funny value here, is people who can only find jolly by killing unarmed defenseless carebears. Go get in an alliance war, and you may actually find people who want to shoot back.


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