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blankseplocked As of Tuesday, Salvaging will be too easy!
 
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JazmanKills
New Eden Combats Industries and Advanturers.
Posted - 2006.12.02 13:46:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Plutoinum
Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/12/2006 05:03:37

Maybe they lowered it to make the career viable for newer players, because many older players almost fullfill those current skills requirements anyway, e.g. Mechanic-V is just normal for armor tankers and a requirement for assault ships. Survey ok, not everyone has it, but it's just rank 1. If you say science, it's needed for R&D, implants, capitals, mining/refining etc. and just rank 1. Doesn't really hurt to train it to V.

So with those skills as a requirement, most people will train for salvaging anyway, no matter if level 3 or 5 in one of those rank-1 skills is required. 3 makes it just easier for newbies to get into it.


Fine, you want to make it easier for new players?!? Lower the requirement from Mechanic 5 to Mechanic 3.

I don't hear a single person complaining about the Mechanic pre-req. Why? Because yes, most people have it. If every experienced player can just train for 4 hours and do this mini-profession then yes, it is a joke.

CCP - leave the requirement as is or if you want to make it easier for new people, lower the mechanic requirement.

Galifardeua
Gallente
Completament Tarats
Posted - 2006.12.02 14:09:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Xanja
If it is meant to be a mini profession, the skills should really not that be easy to obtain.
A mini profession should not be easy to obtain? A mini-profession, just like a regular profession, should be easy to start, and hard to be proficient with.

Mining: you just need mining I
Industrialist: industry I
Fighter: X frigate I, gunnery I, small X turret I (for example)

Yes, you can start this low, but you won't be good at it. Someone on this thread has stated that you need higher levels of salvage to get items from higher grade wrecks, so that's where the importance resides, not on the prerequisites needed.

No, I didn't know the prerequisites beforehand and I'm training surevy IV right now.

But I think that lower prerequissites would be good, so that newbies can see in their first days whether they like it or not. And help with the litter too. Wrecks losing propiety after some time so that anybody could savage them would be nice.

(needing higher survey and mechanic for better salvager turrets could be an option)

Have fun.

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.02 14:21:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Galifardeua
Originally by: Xanja
If it is meant to be a mini profession, the skills should really not that be easy to obtain.
A mini profession should not be easy to obtain? A mini-profession, just like a regular profession, should be easy to start, and hard to be proficient with.

Mining: you just need mining I
Industrialist: industry I
Fighter: X frigate I, gunnery I, small X turret I (for example)

Yes, you can start this low, but you won't be good at it. Someone on this thread has stated that you need higher levels of salvage to get items from higher grade wrecks, so that's where the importance resides, not on the prerequisites needed.

No, I didn't know the prerequisites beforehand and I'm training surevy IV right now.

But I think that lower prerequissites would be good, so that newbies can see in their first days whether they like it or not. And help with the litter too. Wrecks losing propiety after some time so that anybody could savage them would be nice.

(needing higher survey and mechanic for better salvager turrets could be an option)

Have fun.


The current miniprofessions I'm aware of are Salvaging, Hacking and Archaeology.

Salvaging requires Mech V and Survey V. Hacking requires Science V and Electronics Upgrades V. Archaeology requires Survey V and Science V. In each case you need two rank 1 skills to level V, and in each case the relevant miniprofession skill is the only thing you can train to improve it, and it only increases chance of success (and allows you access to harder sites).

Miniprofessions are an exactly delimited group of specific Eve skills, which are all currently uniform in their requirements. Mining is not a miniprofession. Industrialist is not a miniprofession. Fighter is not a miniprofession.


If CCP is serious about miniprofessions, they should probably their guns on this one and keep the reqs as they are. Or, at the very most, drop it to Mech 3/4 and keep Survey V. If they're just meant to be stunted skill trees with no special significance, then by all means, carry on, and maybe drop the reqs for the other two too to make them available to everybody as well.

Gareth Angel
Gallente
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.02 14:33:00 - [64]
 

Lots of decent relpies here - I agree with one kind:

"Mini-professions" imho may take some time to train for. Lowering the requirements for salvaging sounds a bit lame to me too. Now everyone can do it with ease; bye bye mini-profession.

As stated above; the other mini-professions require at least two lvl 5 skills as well (which can be learned without too much trouble - but SOME trouble nevertheless - welcome to the world of mini-professions!), so as far as I'm concerned, please leave the requirements in place as they are, or I'll start complaining that I want the skill requirements for motherships lowered as well, only because I cannot fly one right now...

Same difference...

Confused

Freaky Bare
Blueprint Haus
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2006.12.02 14:54:00 - [65]
 

They are not going to lower the skills.

What I would love to se them do is require more slots to do it effectively. In mining you can do it in a T1 frig from day one, you just are not very good at it. (pre-patch of course) Require several slots worth of modules to salvage and you effectively require dedicated salvage ships.

Minnies would excel at this, of course, since our ships already look like they belong in a salvage yard. Very Happy


Alha Qmar
Caldari
Xenon Logistics
Posted - 2006.12.02 14:59:00 - [66]
 

lvl 5 for this skill was dull, you also dont need lvl 5 of a skill to use a tractor beam.

It still is a mini profesion, as you'll need more advanced skills to build rigs with them.

Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2006.12.02 15:05:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Alha Qmar
lvl 5 for this skill was dull, you also dont need lvl 5 of a skill to use a tractor beam.



Tractor Beams used to have much harsher Reqs but people whined and they were reduced.

Hellspawn01
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.02 15:25:00 - [68]
 

First all is fine, then they lower the skill reqs to make it easier for new pilots and you older pilots start whining, you egoists.

MrBadidea
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.12.02 16:00:00 - [69]
 

I want my 4~ Days of training back on Salvaging 5.

I'm serious Evil or Very Mad

Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
Posted - 2006.12.02 17:46:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: MrBadidea
I want my 4~ Days of training back on Salvaging 5.

I'm serious Evil or Very Mad


And I want the time difference between training 4 rank 5 skills to level 4 and training 4 rank 4 skills to level 4, due to the change in learning skills rank, but it's not going to happen. Pick up Archaeology and smile. You've opened a new door to explore.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2006.12.02 18:06:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: MrBadidea
I want my 4~ Days of training back on Salvaging 5.

I'm serious Evil or Very Mad

Want some cheese with that???

Personally, I think the only change that should be done to Salvaging is that Survey should be lowered from level 5 to level 4, and then add Metallurgy at level 3 (which requires Science 4). That would make is a small bit easier, while training some useful skills at the same time.
That way you'd still have to put in some training time, but in more useful skills for other purposes.

Shayla Etherodyne
Posted - 2006.12.02 18:54:00 - [72]
 

I think the reduction of prerequisies was done for the mass of players seeing those wrecks and not knowing what to do. Looting and leaving them is very fastidious, but not much people has a compiacent corpmate available to salvage the wrecks from a mission.
Not that it will really change much, as most people wouldn't spend the time and high slot needed to salvage.

Obviously I am speaking of missions, as ratting in belts is different.
In a belt usually the wreckage is dispersed in a 20-30 km area at most, in a mission it can be more tha 250 km from a end point to the other, and 3/4 of the missions don't give salvage.

Apparently the kind of salvage is enemy variable too (Shansa giving different salvage from Serpentis, and so on), so in theory commerce will be stimulated.

I say in theory as with the current time needed/salvage recovered of about 20 units in 1 hour of salvaging the average price will be high.
Even mining veldspater I can make about 1,5 millions in a hour, so an average of 75K for the salvage unit is a minimum price.

We probably will end with an hangar full of common pieces and regularly hunt for the good ones we are missing, so the price of the rare oones will go in the millions. not strange in EVE, but that will limit the use of rigs.

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 00:26:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Alha Qmar
lvl 5 for this skill was dull, you also dont need lvl 5 of a skill to use a tractor beam.



Tractor Beams used to have much harsher Reqs but people whined and they were reduced.


Reason for that was not because it was hard to train (just needed Science 5), but because the skill involved was Graviton Physics which is not an NPC-sold item but rather a mission reward.

The result was that the 100 books on the market went up from 300k to 30mil in a day. Instead of just seeding the book or making a new skill, CCP instead lowered the skill requirement.


Hakera
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.12.04 02:45:00 - [74]
 

Professions arnt about how they start, its about how they progress. You need a baseline salvage ability availible to the majority in order to get the industry going. This may provide a relatively mediocre return at that skill level which will be continously balanced in the same way refining works as time passes.

Even if you trained to lvl 5, it is by no means a waste at all imo. As sooner or later the next level will be availible which will bring in possibly exponential returns compared to the baseline. And that next level will want high skill requirements which you have already got the headstart with.

These foundation skills are not high rank skills, its not a big choice or consequence to train them and even if the gains in the beginning are not apparant, they will be soon if professions and escalating paths and all that stuff is progressed right.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.04 03:17:00 - [75]
 

why is everyone crying over this... i think salvaging atm is a joke and doesn’t even work as a mini profession... what they need is several advanced skills and t2 modules and so on... to improve it and make it worthwhile to train... i believe this req drop is a good idea... it just lets everyone have a chance to salvage but to make it a profession they need far more skills and far greater yield then right now...

as right now its not really a profession at lvl5 or lvl3 it doesn’t matter, to make it a profession it should require dedicated training and dedicated fitting/ship for something like that and a good investment should return far greater yield


Zen Takore
Gallente
No Name Inc
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:03:00 - [76]
 

I quite fancy a titan, any chance we could take a look at this too? The price is a little steep also, any chance of a nerf?

The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:15:00 - [77]
 

Salvaging is not a mini-profession.

Rigging is a mini-profession. Rigging requires the skills.

In order to get the wealth of parts you will need to make Rigging a viable business you will want as many people as possible salvaging and then selling the parts on the market.

If you're going to complain about anything complain that it's too easy to build the Rigs not that it's too easy to get the parts.

Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:30:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Hellspawn01
First all is fine, then they lower the skill reqs to make it easier for new pilots and you older pilots start whining, you egoists.


Have to agree with this. As much as I am for Eve being a game that requires a real investment from the player, the intial version of the revelations patch wasn't very "newbie friendly." While I think that perhaps Survey 3 is too low a pre-req (and I agree with the idea of switching the reqs to Mech III and Survey V) its still a big time investment for a new player who, right now, just see wrecks as annoyance and yet another aspect of the game they can't interact with.

While training survey III might not seem like a lot to the players with huge amounts of SP, it is a fair old chunk of time to a newbie and a deviation from the main stuff they will be training for.

As for the suggestion that NPC ships should not make wrecks, I see where this suggestion is going. It will, in effect, create another "uber market" like the T2 market for those players able to obtain the materials. I think one such market is enough.

Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Tague Corp
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:35:00 - [79]
 

Ah ffs. I've got it going to Level 5 already on my ALT. Sad



JeanPierre
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:39:00 - [80]
 

Heysoos Marumba, you people will complain about anything!

It's a T1 component you're making here. Seriously. Look at the BPO's. T1. Honest injun.

I don't envy the life of an MMORPG developer. Lose if you do, lose if you don't, either way somebody is going to get their panties in a wad and cry and stomp their feet and hold their breath. Geesh.


Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2006.12.04 14:12:00 - [81]
 

I'm not directly affected by the change, as I made the decision not to train for or otherwise invest in any of the new stuff until it stabilisied, as something like this was inevitable.

However, I also don't want to see the requirements dropped. I'd rather it be a proper profession and face into a couple of Lv5's to get into it, than it being something everyone does, in which case I might not even bother.

The idea of making the basics available to anyone but the good stuff requiring specialisation is also a good option.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:03:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: The Major
Salvaging is not a mini-profession.

Rigging is a mini-profession. Rigging requires the skills.

In order to get the wealth of parts you will need to make Rigging a viable business you will want as many people as possible salvaging and then selling the parts on the market.

If you're going to complain about anything complain that it's too easy to build the Rigs not that it's too easy to get the parts.



thats what i thought, its like saying using a mining laser is a mini profession Laughing no... you need far greater skills and ships to make it a profession, using basic mining laser is not a profession hence using just this salvage module is not a mini profession... i agree that building them and fitting them is the profession more so...

to make salvaging a mini profession you need far greater skills and maybe a module or a ship that gives it bonus but req quite a bit of investment in time and isk.

Halya Lamina
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:29:00 - [83]
 

I am quite a new player in EVE and I too agree with most that reducing the skill requirement is a bad move to those whom trained to be able to salvage.

BUT, if CCP were to ditch the idea of lowering the requirement, I would like them to introduce back the loot cans. So when ships gets blownup, they now drop a wreck AND a loot can if there's any loot to be found. So for those who can't be bothered to salvage can just tractor the loot can in and be on their way.

Currently, wrecks are just a PITA for those who do not want to salvage but wants the loots.

Sinnbad Mayhem
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:32:00 - [84]
 

I kinda agree with OP. Easy mode is not good.

Wrecks should be for significant ships and more random, making the profession more valuable.

Shuttle wrecks should be replaced by loot cans as should most ratting ships. Too many wrecks cheapens the experience.

S&M

Uncle AlFresco
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:11:00 - [85]
 

I understand the leetzors wanting to keep their advantageRolling Eyes, but won't all those unsalvaged wrecks (if noobs can't salvage) hangin' around in space contribute to a load on the server, maybe increasing lag? Just a rhetorical question, but maybe that's why the req's are being lowered.Confused

Typhis Deterious
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:08:00 - [86]
 

It is nice to have mech 5 and survey 5 and get scrap metal :(

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:35:00 - [87]
 

Salvaging has to be easy, so that enough players participate to drive down prices enough to ensure that rigs dont cost too much.

Quin Tal
Ex Nihilo Dignitas
Expeto Libertas Foedus
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:38:00 - [88]
 

The skill is easy, Salvaging is still time consuming and takes a long time to get what you want from a wreck.


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