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blankseplocked [Trinity] The Complete Miner's Guide - version 2.2 [PDF, 64 pages]
 
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Bendenn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.25 17:58:00 - [451]
 

First off, Halada thanks for the great guide. I actually read it before I made my first character and I still keep a copy on my desk all the time.

I'm curious about the Hulk fitting described in the guide.

I've got electronics/engineering at 5, mining upgrades at 4 and I cannot fit two faction hardeners and the faction booster. Even using the C type hardeners I'm over by 12 cpu. The only way I can make them work is to add the +5% CPU implant and I really don't want to be flying around low sec with that in my head.

Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong?


Charis D'Asgar
Posted - 2008.08.27 05:28:00 - [452]
 

"Since youíre fitted with 8 mining lasers, you will be getting 11400 units of Omber per cycle, or 84 000 units of Omber per hour. Yeah, itís not a whole lot more,"

11400 is a mistake. Should be 1400, I guess.

P.S. Have downloaded it right now.

Mona X
Caldari
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.09.13 08:20:00 - [453]
 

Originally by: Bendenn

Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong?



1. You're trying to fit MLU's II, while that part of the guide was written long before they were introduced into game.
2. You don't want to use 75M ish implant in almost impossible to catch pod (no bubbles in lowsec), but you don't have problem flying very slow and heavy 100M ship + 200M shield booster + 30-50M hardeners?

Jay See
Posted - 2008.09.14 20:51:00 - [454]
 

A very complete and well-written guide.
Great work !

Bendenn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.15 21:25:00 - [455]
 

Originally by: Mona X
Originally by: Bendenn

Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong?



1. You're trying to fit MLU's II, while that part of the guide was written long before they were introduced into game.
2. You don't want to use 75M ish implant in almost impossible to catch pod (no bubbles in lowsec), but you don't have problem flying very slow and heavy 100M ship + 200M shield booster + 30-50M hardeners?


Thanks for the reply.
1. Good catch on the T2 MLU's. They have been in the game since I started so I didn't even consider that the build would use T1s.
2. I was really more curious about why the setup wasn't working for me. I've moved into null sec since I posted and have found a much less expensive setup that is working great for me. Cap stable and I can tank triple BS spawns + escorts and hardly ever see my shield below 90%.

Garrick Konquero
ImmCo
Posted - 2008.10.17 23:30:00 - [456]
 

I don't do much mining, but I still love this guide, and I'm looking forward to the next update.

One thing, the guide states that npc stations all have a base refine rate of 50%. In fact, there are a number of npc installations that have base refine rates of 35%.

super hornet
Caldari
Corporation 58
Fat Kids Cause Lag
Posted - 2008.10.18 11:57:00 - [457]
 

great guides

Billy BadBottom
Posted - 2008.11.09 00:33:00 - [458]
 

2 things...

First, props to a guide that I refer to often, love the organization, graphics, cleanliness; I know that takes time.

Second, any plans to play around with the new ship Orca and update the guide?


padraig animal
Minmatar
Devil Corp
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
Posted - 2008.11.16 12:08:00 - [459]
 

Great guide bump it to the top :P

Thought it was sticky Rolling Eyes

ZergCow
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.11.20 19:32:00 - [460]
 

First off, Wonderfull guide!!!

Now I think i found a few problems. I began making an excel book (spreadsheets) for calculating allll sorts of things. While making it I noticed a few problems in some formulas. After a few days I got the refining sheet to be dead on, 100%, not a penny out of place accurate thanks to your guide. But I am having a real problem with mining yeild. Let me explain.

your formula:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle

First off there are three 1.15 in there. there should be two 1.15 and one 1.10 (these are the skills Mining Barge(1.15), Mining Forman(1.1), and Exhumers(1.15)) once you fix THAT then you get this ...

360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 (2x upgrades) * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle

The problem i have with this formula is why are the mining upgrades combined? Is there a reason for this in this equation? if you combine the upgrades into 1.1 like that you do get 1736.68 BUT if you keep them seperate(1.05 twice) you get 1740.628.

So how should it be done? should i keep the upgrades combined? what if i have one tech II upgrade for 9% and a tech one for 5% would i still combine for 1.14?? Why are we combining the upgrades but noting else? and do upgrades stack 100% like that?

Thanks for any help.

P.S. Also the equation on your first thread has the wrong sum. the equation is good the sum isnt right though. So yea just thought I would bring this stuff up.

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2008.11.20 19:52:00 - [461]
 

Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 20/11/2008 19:51:54
Mining Laser Upgrades (of any type) don't add together before multiplying. If you have a ship that brings in 500 m3 per cycle before applying the upgrades, then the first will give 500 x 1.05 in yield and the second would be 500 x 1.05 x 1.05. As far as I know, the only bonuses that you add before multiplying are the skill level bonuses, like Mining (i.e. Mining V gives a 1.25 bonus to your yield rather than 1.05^5).

Moridrex
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:07:00 - [462]
 

Originally by: Bendenn
Originally by: Mona X
Originally by: Bendenn

Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong?



1. You're trying to fit MLU's II, while that part of the guide was written long before they were introduced into game.
2. You don't want to use 75M ish implant in almost impossible to catch pod (no bubbles in lowsec), but you don't have problem flying very slow and heavy 100M ship + 200M shield booster + 30-50M hardeners?


Thanks for the reply.
1. Good catch on the T2 MLU's. They have been in the game since I started so I didn't even consider that the build would use T1s.
2. I was really more curious about why the setup wasn't working for me. I've moved into null sec since I posted and have found a much less expensive setup that is working great for me. Cap stable and I can tank triple BS spawns + escorts and hardly ever see my shield below 90%.


Any chance we can convince you to share your nullsec tanking setup with the group? :)

ZergCow
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.11.20 20:25:00 - [463]
 

Edited by: ZergCow on 20/11/2008 20:25:14
Originally by: Gavin DeVries
Edited by: Gavin DeVries on 20/11/2008 19:51:54
Mining Laser Upgrades (of any type) don't add together before multiplying. If you have a ship that brings in 500 m3 per cycle before applying the upgrades, then the first will give 500 x 1.05 in yield and the second would be 500 x 1.05 x 1.05. As far as I know, the only bonuses that you add before multiplying are the skill level bonuses, like Mining (i.e. Mining V gives a 1.25 bonus to your yield rather than 1.05^5).


ok so then this formula is correct:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle

and this formula is wrong:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle

Notice the sum is different even though we are using the same numbers?

FullMetal Basilisk
Minmatar
The Naked Peas Group Plc.
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:15:00 - [464]
 

ooooh, this excellent guide now needs to be updated for the orca :P ;)

Gavin DeVries
Posted - 2008.11.20 21:27:00 - [465]
 

Originally by: ZergCow
Edited by: ZergCow on 20/11/2008 20:25:14


ok so then this formula is correct:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle

and this formula is wrong:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle

Notice the sum is different even though we are using the same numbers?



We aren't using the same numbers; I bolded the differece. 1.05*1.05 does not equal 1.1; it's 1.1025. That's a small difference, but a difference nonetheless. From what part of the guide is that taken? I'm assuming that's 1.25 each for Mining V and Astrogeology V, 1.15 each for Mining Barges V and Exhumers V, and then 1.05 each for 2 Mining Laser Upgrades, 1.05 each for two implants, plus 1.75 for a T2 crystal?

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.11.20 22:19:00 - [466]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 20/11/2008 22:22:48
Overall good guide, but on page 7, you say twice that all systems have asteroid belts, which is wrong. Neither Aunia nor Dodixie have them and I'm sure plenty of others don't either. Most do, but not all do.

You also say that ice is only in low-sec and null-sec, which is also untrue. I mine ice in Chelien, which is 0.7, sec all the time.

ZergCow
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.11.20 22:37:00 - [467]
 

Originally by: Gavin DeVries
Originally by: ZergCow
Edited by: ZergCow on 20/11/2008 20:25:14


ok so then this formula is correct:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle

and this formula is wrong:
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.10 * 1.75 = 1736.68 m3/cycle

Notice the sum is different even though we are using the same numbers?



We aren't using the same numbers; I bolded the differece. 1.05*1.05 does not equal 1.1; it's 1.1025. That's a small difference, but a difference nonetheless. From what part of the guide is that taken? I'm assuming that's 1.25 each for Mining V and Astrogeology V, 1.15 each for Mining Barges V and Exhumers V, and then 1.05 each for 2 Mining Laser Upgrades, 1.05 each for two implants, plus 1.75 for a T2 crystal?


The first formula is the one i made in excel and am currently using (unable to check its accuracy via eve because i am at work) The second formula is taken from the Guide. Page 32 (that is section 7 i think) But the formula in the guide has one number wrong which i fixed in the one you quoted above.

I see what your saying with the upgrades where 1.05*1.05=1.1025 Thats why i was confused about the formula in the guide. If you add the two upgrades before the equation then yes 5%+5%=10%=0.1 where as if you just stick the upgrades into the equation by themselves you get 5%*5%=10.25%=0.1025

With that being Said I am assuming the person who made that formula was rounding to the tenth place and assumed the two are the same because if you round it both of those equal 0.10 But obviously when testing the two formulas you get 6M3 differance in the outcome. not much to some people sure but i am trying to calculate minerals per hour and profit per day/week/month based on that which would throw my profit off by millions if not more.

Thats why I really want to clear up this equation.

Fieldcrew
Posted - 2008.11.23 14:35:00 - [468]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 20/11/2008 22:22:48
Overall good guide, but on page 7, you say twice that all systems have asteroid belts, which is wrong. Neither Aunia nor Dodixie have them and I'm sure plenty of others don't either. Most do, but not all do.

You also say that ice is only in low-sec and null-sec, which is also untrue. I mine ice in Chelien, which is 0.7, sec all the time.


These were removed a few patches back to lower the numbers in high volume systems to assist with lag issues. When he wrote the original guide the statement was true. the guild was updated to say that about ICE but there use to be ICE in 1.0 system which were removed to lower the macro miners with zero risk ICE mining.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2008.11.23 22:56:00 - [469]
 

Edited by: Halada on 23/11/2008 22:55:59
Originally by: ZergCow


The first formula is the one i made in excel and am currently using (unable to check its accuracy via eve because i am at work) The second formula is taken from the Guide. Page 32 (that is section 7 i think) But the formula in the guide has one number wrong which i fixed in the one you quoted above.


The equation on page 32 is
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle

360 = base cycle
1.25 = Astro V
1.25 = Mining V
1.15 = Barge V
1.15 = Exhumer 5
1.15 = Mining Foreman V with the Mindlink
1.05 = Highwall Implant
1.05 = Michi Implant
1.05^2 = Upgrades x2
1.75 = T2 Crystal

1.10 does not appear anywhere in the guide if you search for it!

Looks like you looked at a wrong place.

ZergCow
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.11.24 04:02:00 - [470]
 

Originally by: Halada
Edited by: Halada on 23/11/2008 22:55:59
Originally by: ZergCow


The first formula is the one i made in excel and am currently using (unable to check its accuracy via eve because i am at work) The second formula is taken from the Guide. Page 32 (that is section 7 i think) But the formula in the guide has one number wrong which i fixed in the one you quoted above.


The equation on page 32 is
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05^2 * 1.75 = 1819.75 m3/cycle

360 = base cycle
1.25 = Astro V
1.25 = Mining V
1.15 = Barge V
1.15 = Exhumer 5
1.15 = Mining Foreman V with the Mindlink
1.05 = Highwall Implant
1.05 = Michi Implant
1.05^2 = Upgrades x2
1.75 = T2 Crystal

1.10 does not appear anywhere in the guide if you search for it!

Looks like you looked at a wrong place.



right but the equation SHOULD be
360 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.15 * 1.10 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.75 = 1740.63 m3/cycle

360 = base cycle
1.25 = Astro V
1.25 = Mining V
1.15 = Barge V (bonus is based on the ship not the skill.)
1.15 = Exhumer 5 (bonus is based on the ship not the skill.)
1.10 = Mining Foreman V (with the Mindlink its 1.15 but the link is equipment on a ship not a skill.)
1.05 = Highwall Implant
1.05 = Michi Implant
1.05 = Mining Upgrade (or 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09 depending on upgrade chosen.)
1.05 = Mining Upgrade (or 1.06, 1.07, 1.08, 1.09 depending on upgrade chosen.)
1.75 = T2 Crystal (or 1.625 for tech one)

The only reason to seperate out the two mining upgrades is so people dont try to add them together. See most of the ore mining calculators i have come accross are all aways a little bit off and i think this could be why. The excel sheet i made (which i should probably upload soon) is exact down to the last M3.

Also I want to add that my comments are ment as constructive criticism and I am coming from the point of view of a newb. I have had this eve account for years but am just picking it back up and playing it 40 hours a week where as befor i only logged in to change skills. So all of the mining stuff is new to me. So as a newbi looking at this stuff these are the things that confuse me that i think could use some clearing up. Understanding this one equation helped me learn about mining in more ways than anything else.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2008.11.24 06:09:00 - [471]
 

That's why the equation is 1.05^2 and not 1.05 x 2 ...

1.05^2 = 1.05 * 1.05 Wink

NeoSmith
Posted - 2008.11.24 10:44:00 - [472]
 

Edited by: NeoSmith on 24/11/2008 10:49:12
Originally by: Bendenn

I've got electronics/engineering at 5, mining upgrades at 4 and I cannot fit two faction hardeners and the faction booster. Even using the C type hardeners I'm over by 12 cpu. The only way I can make them work is to add the +5% CPU implant and I really don't want to be flying around low sec with that in my head.

Has the CPU on the Hulk changed since the guide was written or am I doing something wrong?



The CPU hasn't changed. but the CPU requirement of the shield harderners did changed when Trinity was launched, if i remember correctly.

Originally by: ZergCow

1.10 = Mining Foreman V (with the Mindlink its 1.15 but the link is equipment on a ship not a skill.)


If you plug an implant called Mining Foreman Mindlink, you'll get additional 50% from Mining Foreman V (0.10 * 0.5 = 0.05), hench 1.15 (1.0 + 0.10 + 0.05)
It is different from the equipment which use "Mining Foreman Link - " prefix on them.

Edit: clarify the Mining Foreman V + Mindlink formula

luctirous
Posted - 2008.11.26 11:43:00 - [473]
 

hi,

could anyone upload the guide from his or her pc, cause i like to download it, but the website seems down. thanks

ZergCow
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.11.26 17:54:00 - [474]
 

Originally by: Halada
That's why the equation is 1.05^2 and not 1.05 x 2 ...

1.05^2 = 1.05 * 1.05 Wink


indeed. it just confused my little brain at first. and not to derail this thread but here is a little excel book i was working on if anyone wants to use it. Nothing fancy. In fact right now it is only for mining in a hulk. But I figured others night get some use out of it. I know they have mining apps out there that do this sort of thing but I kinda like excel because i can adjust it to my likeing.

download link: http://www.aoegaming.net/zergcow/ZCMM.zip

Let me know if you guys like it and what could be better. one of these days I plan on turning it into an app but that will be after i add in all the ice and compounds and ships and equipment. lol right now its just ore and hulk.

Roulet
Posted - 2008.12.07 10:14:00 - [475]
 

Read the guide from top to bottom. Good job and many thanks as this has helped me bigtime.

Cheers mate YARRRR!!

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.12.07 18:51:00 - [476]
 

Originally by: Fieldcrew
These were removed a few patches back to lower the numbers in high volume systems to assist with lag issues. When he wrote the original guide the statement was true.


I'm sure that's the case, but as of right now and for the last year or so I've been playing, there haven't been any in those systems. I'm just pointing this out, since the guide has been updated as of Trinity, those parts about all systems having belts should be changed.

Synfoola
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.10 15:07:00 - [477]
 

Thank you for this. As a new player that wanted to avoid as many mistakes as possible in a game as in-depth as this one is, your guide made a load of difference in getting me started right. :)

Zevix
Posted - 2008.12.13 19:06:00 - [478]
 

greetings and salutations to all. love the guide, love the posting banter, dig the constant attempts to refine calculations and cross reference information. Im newb, Im learning, and Im stuck :(. in section 6.2 "upgrades for the riches" the Gypsy KMB implant is fleetingly mentioned and in useing the eve fitting tool (EFT) (which is awesome BTW and recommend for any who havent tried it) I cannot for the life of me make that CPU stretch far enough. Ive tried altering my skills to see which one is failing me, I even tried the slot 10 implant ment to boost cpu for mining upgrades, but to no avail. can someone explain the formula for that lil jewel...please?

Clansworth
Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2008.12.13 19:34:00 - [479]
 

What, in particular, are you trying to fit? Things that affect your CPU are your Electronics Skill, the Mining Upgrades skill (as it reduces the CPU use penalty of the miners), the afore mentioned KMB implants, and CPU modules (low-slot).

Zevix
Posted - 2008.12.14 03:02:00 - [480]
 

Originally by: Clansworth
What, in particular, are you trying to fit? Things that affect your CPU are your Electronics Skill, the Mining Upgrades skill (as it reduces the CPU use penalty of the miners), the afore mentioned KMB implants, and CPU modules (low-slot).


Im trying to do what was mentioned in that section where you can fit 2 Mining Laser Upgrades on a Coveter. But taking into account the implant (KMB-75), Electronics 5, Mining Upgrades 5, and there are only 2 low slots on the Coveter anyways I overload it "268.01/262.5"


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