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Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:26:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Blind Man on 01/12/2006 05:55:21
So with the introduction of Revelations it seems that only 1-2 rig components are dropping from ships, in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig. IMO this should not be the case. Change salvaging skill to 5% more amount of salvaged components per lvl, don't see why in the world we need more stuff chanced based on something already so rare. (also the salvage tackle rigs changed to salvage amount, but % should be taken down to 5-10% or so)

and the drop rates for salvaged components should be changed to something along these lines:

Shuttle/noob ship = 0-1 components
frig: 2-5
dessie: 5-7
cruiser: 10-20
BC: 20-30
BS: 30-50

Taking into consideration that T2 rigs are harder to get components for etc, This would allow for much higher production of rigs. I think that T1 rigs should be readily available to everyone, including new players. We take time to train like 8 skills to reduce penalties on them, thats already enough effort Please don't make this a useless feature only for people who want to invest (450m+) per rig..
Smile

edit: numbers changed

Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:32:00 - [2]
 

/signed

The damned things were supposed to give us the ability to have more diverse setups. WTF?

Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:42:00 - [3]
 

Disagree.

Right now the demand for rigs is unlimited and the drop rate for salvage is frustratingly low, sure. But that's a GOOD thing.

I'm a salvager, see. I *enjoy* salvaging, and I want the salvaged goods to have real value. At these drop rates, they do. And they'll keep doing so.

I'm sure they'll tune this a bit more friendly, but I hope they don't go too far. I'd hate to see wreck parts for sale in stacks of hundreds in Jita for small money, it would take all the fun out of this nifty new feature.

At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.


Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:43:00 - [4]
 

As I hate the concept of rigs, the rarer the better. It's fine, leave it alone.

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:50:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Blind Man on 01/12/2006 03:53:11
i just find it silly they add a new feature and these little t1 mods with cheap blueprints for them will cost ******ed amount, useless feature :/, t2 rigs shouldnt even be this bad, whos gonna waste time salvaging if they know it will take them like a year to build a rig nobody will buy

Baleorg
Gallente
Guys of Sarcasm
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:56:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Blind Man
in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig.


strange. i got around 80% for 1 hybrid rig together, and iam alone and iam mining most of the time

Kiyano
Caldari
Pilots Of Honour
Aeternus.
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:24:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Marlenus
Disagree.

Right now the demand for rigs is unlimited and the drop rate for salvage is frustratingly low, sure. But that's a GOOD thing.

I'm a salvager, see. I *enjoy* salvaging, and I want the salvaged goods to have real value. At these drop rates, they do. And they'll keep doing so.

I'm sure they'll tune this a bit more friendly, but I hope they don't go too far. I'd hate to see wreck parts for sale in stacks of hundreds in Jita for small money, it would take all the fun out of this nifty new feature.

At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.




Agree'd, it makes the profession fun and worth while, not just something everybody does, its truely tough and rewarding if you choose to follow that particular path.

JamesTalon
Caldari
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:31:00 - [8]
 

Its the one side path I'm actually taking with my alt. He will now serve as a dual purpose hauler/salvager Cool

Zartmann
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:33:00 - [9]
 

CCP please tune this a bit more friendly, just a bit, so more people will go for this professional path. An increased (again, just bit) in the drop rate will do the trick IMHO.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:40:00 - [10]
 

The drop rates shouldn't be anywhere near as high as the op suggested.

Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:45:00 - [11]
 

Have any of you tried comparing the salvage drop rates from belt rats and/or player wrecks to those of mission rats? I'm pretty sure you'll get more from player wrecks. Maybe they want you to go blow up other people for your l33t rig bitz! YARRRR!!

TheDevilsJury
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:46:00 - [12]
 

Completely disagree. Rigs should be rare. They should cost as much as good implants do.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:50:00 - [13]
 

why did they put rig slots on some of those ships? like t1 frig and so on... when at these rates nothing but capital and faction bs will be fitting them and maybe hac's command ships and the few others... Rolling Eyes

all it will do is make the uber items more uber, meaning more of a gap

i dont know why, because they are perma items, and destroyed once repackaged so... its not like a item or module that you can reuse or refit on different ships, its a consumable Confused



Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:52:00 - [14]
 

they could have also made different grades of them, like implants... that way everyone could fit them but have different % i don get it... it shouldnt be only t1 and t2

Dahin
Maza Nostra
HELL4S
Posted - 2006.12.01 05:28:00 - [15]
 

I'd say the first rigs will for for about .5b each.

Then after a while, they will drop and stabilize 50-100m each imho. It's just waaaaaay too timeconsuming to harvest the parts.

Blind Man
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2006.12.01 05:50:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: TheDevilsJury
Completely disagree. Rigs should be rare. They should cost as much as good implants do.


tend to agree with that so i changed the numbers Very Happy

Maximillian Pele
Caldari
Keel Hauler's Inc.
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:10:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 01/12/2006 06:14:06
Give it time.

The early adopters will always pay a premium for the new toys.

The price of rigs will be determined by:

The number of players with the skills to salvage.

The number of BPOs and whether they are in production or research.

The number of components being salvaged.

Then add a profit margin determined by supply and demand.

Atm the number of people with the skills is low, plus the number of salvaged components is low. Most rigs being built now will be for Alliance/Corp/Personal use. Those that make it onto the market will sell at a huge margin due to rarity.

But as long as more rigs are being built than are being lost, the price will drop as more and more make their way onto the market.

But the eventual cost will reflect the time spent salvaging, the supply of components, and the rarity of rigs for sale.

And there is nothing to stop anyone from salvaging and building their own.

LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:38:00 - [18]
 

Player ships should drop more components, NPC ships should drop less. Increase drop rates across the board. End.

LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:44:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: TheDevilsJury
Completely disagree. Rigs should be rare. They should cost as much as good implants do.


Have you salvaged anything at all? At the rate that components are dropping, Rigs will cost 10 TIMES the amount of any ship just due to the effort put forth by the manufacturer to obtain the components.

We salvaged a vengeance and a retribution today and got one component dropped. A brutix dropped nothing, and all T1 frigs drop Scrap Metal.

Loraen
Posted - 2006.12.01 07:14:00 - [20]
 

I'm seeing the drop rates as somewhat low but not much.. maybe increase the base chance from the salvager to 10 or 15% and have large ships have a chance for 2-3 pieces.

As for missions, it's been a bit inconsistent. So far at least rogue drones and mercenaries drop no salvage at all. My wild guess is you only get salvage from rat types that appear also on belts.

I'm seeing Inventing as an important part of rigging, at least most gallente ships have enough calibration points to fit a t2 rig plus two t1s, or two t2s.

I'm looking forward to putting together an Ancillary Circuit Controller rig (sp?), which gives 10 points of powergrid with no drawbacks. That's gonna rock for AFs (t2 variant adds 15 PG..).

Cyclops43
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:06:00 - [21]
 

I got 32 components yesterday from salvaging about half of the NPC ships from the Worlds Collide lvl 4 mission (only cleared the serpentis side of the mission). It took a long while to get them, but not too bad.

I don't thinks salvage yields should be increased, but all NPC ships should have a chance of being salvagable (some missions have no salvagable ships).

However, I think the BPO's component requirements should be dropped to about half of what they are now. As they are now rigs are simply too hard to build and will only be put on pimped ships (if prices develop as I think...).


Now Mary
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:07:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Loraen
I'm seeing the drop rates as somewhat low but not much.. maybe increase the base chance from the salvager to 10 or 15% and have large ships have a chance for 2-3 pieces.

As for missions, it's been a bit inconsistent. So far at least rogue drones and mercenaries drop no salvage at all. My wild guess is you only get salvage from rat types that appear also on belts.

I'm seeing Inventing as an important part of rigging, at least most gallente ships have enough calibration points to fit a t2 rig plus two t1s, or two t2s.

I'm looking forward to putting together an Ancillary Circuit Controller rig (sp?), which gives 10 points of powergrid with no drawbacks. That's gonna rock for AFs (t2 variant adds 15 PG..).


Actually, that's 10 percent more grid, like a reactor control unit. Not so good for frigates, but awesome for everybody else.

But I agree with the OP. I was excited for rigging, I thought it would bring some real variety to PVP and industry alike, as it turn's out, it's just another COSMOS. I think ultimately CCP should increase drop rates, and have some of the more basic rigs require common components, while making other components rare for more exotic rigs.

Perhaps they can even go as far as creating a basic level of rigs that have further reduced bonuses as compared to the t1 versions, (5% f.ex), require significantly more calibration points (250, 175, 100, etc). But whatever you decide to do CCP, please bring rigging to the masses.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:11:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/12/2006 09:18:27

Im on the "they should be rare" side as well. I dont think they are intended to be common, then they would be on the market with npc blueprints. And like some people are saying, its pretty nice if you can make a nice living from salvaging. It should be hard work, but pay off nicely so its still worth doing.

Im pretty much for any sort of specialization in Eve. We have professions like miner and trader in Eve, but Im all for making Eve professions even more specialized. You shouldnt be able to "do it all" yourself. You should pay a salvage crew for getting you rigs etc... we cant all be fighters. :)

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:18:00 - [24]
 

From the salvagers point of view they should be rare to make the profession worthwhile.

From the rigs point of view they should be plentiful, otherwise we're going to be seeing a lot of empty rig slots, and none of the new variety in PvP they are supposed to be adding.


Is it possible that the concept of improving existing ships using broken junk from previously destroyed ships is in some way flawed? ShockedRolling Eyes

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:21:00 - [25]
 

i think its right that npc wrecks dont drop many rig components,
tho it would be interesting if player wrecks would drop alot more components.

Pia Domina
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:23:00 - [26]
 

Patience...

Rigs are new, and not meant to be as common as tech 1 frigates anyway. It's a whole new concept that the devs have put it, and while they've been tested on Sisi unleashing them onto the TQ playerbase is very different. They might need some more balancing as we start to seem them used. Maybe there's an obvious "must have" combination that creates a supership... It's better to watch them develop slowly in case any problems need to be rectified before too many people have them.

And personally, I think they should remain relatively rare. The manufacture requirements of the rigs do seem high for the amount of salvage you get from each drop, but I'd definitely prefer to see the rigs spread slowly and gradually in case some need tweaking.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:32:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/12/2006 09:38:41

They could also introduce rigs as rare agent mission rewards, to speed up the process of getting them on the market. Its like with implants... when I started playing, level 3 implants were very expensive. Now they are very cheap. The reason that happened is because of implants being rewarded very often. I dont think thats the right way to go with rigs, but if ccp manage to keep them very rare agent rewards, I think it could work.

Its also possible that some of the exploration stuff includes ships with a good drop rate for the materials needed. Anyone checked out the new regions with the new drones? Wink

Eddie Gordo
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Damu'Khonde
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:46:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Marlenus
Disagree.

Right now the demand for rigs is unlimited and the drop rate for salvage is frustratingly low, sure. But that's a GOOD thing.

I'm a salvager, see. I *enjoy* salvaging, and I want the salvaged goods to have real value. At these drop rates, they do. And they'll keep doing so.

I'm sure they'll tune this a bit more friendly, but I hope they don't go too far. I'd hate to see wreck parts for sale in stacks of hundreds in Jita for small money, it would take all the fun out of this nifty new feature.

At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.




QFT, however as far as I can tell there is no differentiation between small ships and larger ships in terms of what gets dropped. Larger ships should IMO drop more just not much more.

Shayla Etherodyne
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:13:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne on 01/12/2006 10:22:16
Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne on 01/12/2006 10:20:46
Originally by: Cadiz
Have any of you tried comparing the salvage drop rates from belt rats and/or player wrecks to those of mission rats? I'm pretty sure you'll get more from player wrecks. Maybe they want you to go blow up other people for your l33t rig bitz! YARRRR!!


Tried thst on Sisi: the chance to salvage something from a player ship wreck are lower, but if you salvage, usually you get 2 and sometime 3 items.
My tries have gotten 0 salvage from NPC drones, named enemyes, Navy ships, mercenaries and buildings, while I have got good results from Serpentis ships.
The drop rate can be even acceptable even if a bit low, the problem is the time needed. To get a result I usually need 4-5 cycles with 2 salvagers so the time needed to recover the components is high. In it it is needed to factor the wrecks that don't yeld salvage, so salvaging a standard mission with about 40 wrecks require about 30 minutes. And as you need to be relatively quiet (I usually scan while moving to the next wreck, tractoring behind me the current one) as you are sacrificing highslots for non combat related modules.

Edit:
Originally by: Loraen

As for missions, it's been a bit inconsistent. So far at least rogue drones and mercenaries drop no salvage at all. My wild guess is you only get salvage from rat types that appear also on belts.


Gerat intuition, I think you are right!



Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:35:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Marlenus
At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.

Yeah 450 mill per t1 rig is just awesome... Razz


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