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blankseplocked Can we have our Alpha Strike back please?
 
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Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:34:00 - [1]
 

When the damage mod of tachyons was boosted to the point that it had 10% less alpha than a Tempest on an Apoc, we cried, but nobody listened. Now the Abaddon has a 25% damage bonus, and has an equal alpha strike to the Tempest. Not only that, but it is only a couple of % away from out-alphering the Maelstrom.

As CCP are perfectly willing to swap an Amarr racial bonus for the sake of balance, would it be possible to have the 25% ROF bonus on the Maelstrom changed to a 25% damage bonus instead? We fully realise this will in fact lower our DPS, but the DPS was **** to begin with compared to other guns.

All that matters on artillery is alpha strike. That's it. Not DPS (always going to be the worst), not tracking (always going to be the worst), just alpha. If other races are dishing out equal alpha and far higher DPS, what's the point of using artillery?

Before you mention the cap use of Tachyons on a Abaddon, the Abaddon caps out about the same time 1400mm IIs have to reload, and both ships will spend so much time not shooting that the battle will probably be over when the ships have enough cap/ammo to resume.

Finally, even with the proposed 5% boost to artillery damage mod in the sticky the Abaddon will still only be 1-2% behind the Tempest in terms of alpha strike.

Manditory Graph

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:38:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Tsar Maul

Before you mention the cap use of Tachyons on a Abaddon, the Abaddon caps out about the same time 1400mm IIs have to reload, and both ships will spend so much time not shooting that the battle will probably be over when the ships have enough cap/ammo to resume.



Um. I think minnies will spend 10 seconds reloading guns. Whats the ROF on artis on Maelstrom btw (do you miss 1 or 1,5 salvo)?

And now count how long will it take for abaddon to regain enough cap to shoot as long as you with fresh clip of ammo.

Tiuwaz
Minmatar
No Paradise
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:41:00 - [3]
 

I think this graph from marn Prestoc shows it better: Abaddon rulez

Abaddon has

same alpha strike
higher dps
better tracking
better optimal
better surviveabilty



it also features a big sign with the text: "HAHA **** you minnies!"

OrangeAfroMan
Minmatar
AnTi.
Atrocitas
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:44:00 - [4]
 

Abaddon is also better with autocannons than the Tempest and the Maelstrom.

Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:44:00 - [5]
 

10 seconds waiting for the shot to finish followed by 10 seconds reloading = 20 seconds doing nothing. In that time the Abaddon can inject enough cap (because every Abaddon pilot will have a heavy injector fitted) for nearly 3 more volleys (by the time it gets to the third volley it has already injected some more cap).

Mila Prestoc
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:49:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Mila Prestoc on 20/11/2006 20:51:29
Originally by: Tiuwaz
I think this graph from marn Prestoc shows it better: Abaddon rulez

Abaddon has

same alpha strike
higher dps
better tracking
better optimal
better surviveabilty



it also features a big sign with the text: "HAHA **** you minnies!"



That doesn't have the proposed (has tux actually put this on test server yet?) +5% dmg for arty its just using current stats from test. (as we find them since ccp doesn't tell us what they change)

Jonay
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:51:00 - [7]
 

Melstorm alpha sucks, signed for changing 25% rof to 25% damage, and please, return tech 2 ammo as it was before kali, reducing all sniping ammo bonus to 75% range instead to 100% is another boost to rokh.

Tiuwaz
Minmatar
No Paradise
Posted - 2006.11.20 20:52:00 - [8]
 

the 5% dont change much sadly, it makes abaddon and tempest have an equal alpha strike and the maelstrom gets a 7% better alpha

Brother Todd
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:00:00 - [9]
 

Not to be an ******* or anything, but aren't you the same bunch that whined about alpha not being important anymore?

Tarn Minkan
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:03:00 - [10]
 

I agree, I miss the Tempest of ol'


Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Brother Todd
Not to be an ******* or anything, but aren't you the same bunch that whined about alpha not being important anymore?


Yes - but that can be easily fixed by increasing the alpha strike to match the HP increase (at the expence of ROF, which is so slow anyway it doesn't really matter) so the overall DPS would be the same.

We all know that isn't going to happen, so this is really about keeping the one thing that makes artillery different from other turrets (even if it isn't as useful as it was before).

Kyguard
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:05:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Abaddon is also better with autocannons than the Tempest and the Maelstrom.


I'm gonna call bull**** on this one, if it's true I am saddened Crying or Very sad

Both Amarr and Minnie got their problems ugh

Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:11:00 - [13]
 

feel free to convince tux to change the failure that is the abaddon into something thats actually going to add a new role to the amarrian fleet instead of providing us with just a better geddon/apoc.


Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:13:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kyguard
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Abaddon is also better with autocannons than the Tempest and the Maelstrom.


I'm gonna call bull**** on this one, if it's true I am saddened Crying or Very sad

Both Amarr and Minnie got their problems ugh


800mm II x 8

MWD II
Web
Scram
Heavy Injector

Large Rep II x 2
EANM II x 1
DC x 1
Gyrostab II x 3

Due to the resistance bonus on the Abaddon, this ship has higher resists than the Tempest, more DPS than any comparable tempest setup, more hitpoints and more cap.

Tiuwaz
Minmatar
No Paradise
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:15:00 - [15]
 

time to train amarrr Shocked
atleast i got projectiles trained heh

Frools
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:42:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tsar Maul
10 seconds waiting for the shot to finish followed by 10 seconds reloading = 20 seconds doing nothing. In that time the Abaddon can inject enough cap (because every Abaddon pilot will have a heavy injector fitted) for nearly 3 more volleys (by the time it gets to the third volley it has already injected some more cap).

to be fair though you are now losing 3 slots to 'fitting' (2 rcu's and an injector) versus the 1 you need on a pest
and on plated fleet bs (so everything but the rokh) maelstrom/tempest do more alpha and more dps than an abaddon

saying that, i do think its wrong that the abaddon has better alpha , damage and range than pest/maelstrom but it really did need 5% damage over 5% rof, the extra cap use gimped it to the point of uselessness

Roxanna Kell
Anormalii S.A.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.20 21:47:00 - [17]
 

NO

Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:10:00 - [18]
 

I agree, stop fooling around with the abaddon and give it a new role already! Leave the alpha strike to the minnies, I don't even want it.

After 2 very similar ships we really don't need a 3rd. Neutral

Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:12:00 - [19]
 

What is the obsession with Alpha Strike? It's totally meaningless unless you are killing something in one volley. If you're in a fleet it's still meaningless because ship types are varied, in that case I'd think you'd want everyone to have a good Alpha Strike. Unless you fly in a fleet of all Minmatar ships, which I guess would be pretty cool but probably pretty unlikely.

Kapitanleutnant Mei
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:54:00 - [20]
 

5% alpha is to weak imho- needs to be changed to a 7.5% bonus to keep it consistent.

Aeaus
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2006.11.20 22:58:00 - [21]
 

Quiet you, as you flamed me on the Scrapheap-Challenge forum, Tuxford was looking into the Amarr issue, so you can eat your minmatar *****ing and your own words now. Twisted Evil

Swamp Ziro
Ultimate Betrayal.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:39:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Alowishus
What is the obsession with Alpha Strike? It's totally meaningless unless you are killing something in one volley. If you're in a fleet it's still meaningless because ship types are varied, in that case I'd think you'd want everyone to have a good Alpha Strike. Unless you fly in a fleet of all Minmatar ships, which I guess would be pretty cool but probably pretty unlikely.


Obsession with alpha srike because it's the only thing going for artilleries.

Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:43:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Swamp Ziro
Originally by: Alowishus
What is the obsession with Alpha Strike? It's totally meaningless unless you are killing something in one volley. If you're in a fleet it's still meaningless because ship types are varied, in that case I'd think you'd want everyone to have a good Alpha Strike. Unless you fly in a fleet of all Minmatar ships, which I guess would be pretty cool but probably pretty unlikely.


Obsession with alpha srike because it's the only thing going for artilleries.


What about the cool sound effects!?

Elaron
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Alowishus
What about the cool sound effects!?

We'd prefer them having a role that's more useful in combat than being an accompaniment to the 1812 Overture.

Ath Amon
Posted - 2006.11.20 23:57:00 - [25]
 

nah they can have it...

as long as minnie get arty fixed with higher optimal (+40-50%) or dps (+25-35%)

DarkElf
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:07:00 - [26]
 

i kinda have to agree with this. it's the one thing that makes pests scary is the uber first volley and seems it's a bit lacking now.

have to say though about the abaddon comments that the maelstrom can fit an awesome shield tank and full dmg/tracking mods in lows. abaddon really can't

DE



Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:02:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tsar Maul
Good points

Tsar Maul... hmmm. Tsarmaul... Sarmaul? Is it you!? \o/

I haven't kept up on these things. Glad you're still around!

6Bagheera9
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Tsar Maul
10 seconds waiting for the shot to finish followed by 10 seconds reloading = 20 seconds doing nothing. In that time the Abaddon can inject enough cap (because every Abaddon pilot will have a heavy injector fitted) for nearly 3 more volleys (by the time it gets to the third volley it has already injected some more cap).


Dude, I love your sig. Just wanted to say that, bye.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:24:00 - [29]
 

ahhhhh im so glad the Amarr finally have a 5% dmg bonus it so rightly deserves.

Agreed tho perhaps 1400's and 1200's should be boosted alittle bit more in tracking and dmg.

Beringe
Caldari
Mercurialis Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.21 01:32:00 - [30]
 

Sounds good to me, actually.

If the Maelstrom is supposed to be an artillery boat, 5% extra damage would both give it a little alpha boost (which it needs) as well as help define its role.


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